ChaosDystopia Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 All of this pertains strictly to the Rakata sets: Has anybody else noticed that certain pieces in the Combat Tech DPS set (which is typically used by Pyrotechs, as it's set bonuses pertain mostly to Pyrotech) provide more AIM and POWER than their Eliminator counterparts, albeit with a decrease in endurance? Coming from a purely DPS standpoint, it seems to me like the optimal set for Mercenary PVE DPS would be: Head: Combat Tech Chest: Eliminator Gloves: Combat Tech Legs: Combat Tech Feet: Eliminator The difference in itemization between this set and a pure eliminator set equates to: +30 AIM, +34 POWER, -65 ENDURANCE (which is roughly 300 health). Of course, the 4-piece eliminator bonus of reduced rail shot cost would not be applied to this set but the 2-piece crit increase on tracer missile bonus would still be applied. It seems to me like this would be the optimal set for PVE DPS, as the minor hit in health is hardly anything to be concerned about and the heat cost of rail shot is easily managed. The only downside to this set that I can see is that it looks, visually, a little mismatched (the combat tech helmet sure is ugly). Thoughts, ideas, comments? Any feedback is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melonman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 go 4 pcs eliminator and remove mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosDystopia Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) go 4 pcs eliminator and remove mods. Changes nothing... the difference is through the base armoring which cannot be removed. That would also require getting duplicate Rakata drops. Edited February 14, 2012 by ChaosDystopia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stochrin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I thought about going for 3 pieces of Combat Tech, but now I've decided I'll get all but one piece of Eliminator, and then switch out the enhancements. So then I'll only be missing out on around 20 aim, which is probably insignificant compared to the 4 piece set bonus. Edited February 15, 2012 by Stochrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGarnagle Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I thought about going for 3 pieces of Combat Tech, but now I've decided I'll get all but one piece of Eliminator, and then switch out the enhancements. So then I'll only be missing out on around 20 aim, which is probably insignificant compared to the 4 piece set bonus. enhancements in both sets are the same. Unless you mean switch out the enhancements from other pieces (and extra chest piece put into gloves to lose endurance and power for a bunch of crit....not saying to do that but it's an example). Yet you can do that with the combat tech stuff too, so that doesn't really change anything. It's the base stats where you get the benefit. In the end, you will gain aim and power with those combat tech pieces mentioned. So no doubt one piece is mandatory. The next question is do you want to have 8 more heat per rail shot with the added stats, or vice versa. That is up for debate, yet the most challenging boss fights I normally don't have the heat issues since their are lulls in the action - Soa where you are running after lightening balls, or jumping down platforms, or only attacking mind traps when his shield is up, and the heavy fabricator where you have to solve the puzzle. For the rest I have plenty of dps if I have to throw in more rapid shots to conserve heat. The next question....do you mind looking stupid. I suppose you can hide the helm (which I hate since BH's should be wearing a helm to actually look like a BH), and the gloves are fine. So only the leggings would look a little out of place, but they are not that bad. Edited February 15, 2012 by McGarnagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stochrin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 enhancements in both sets are the same. Unless you mean switch out the enhancements from other pieces (and extra chest piece put into gloves to lose endurance and power for a bunch of crit....not saying to do that but it's an example). Yet you can do that with the combat tech stuff too, so that doesn't really change anything. It's the base stats where you get the benefit. I'm pretty sure power is connected to the mods/enhancements. Aim is the only thing that can't be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iandayen Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) All of this pertains strictly to the Rakata sets: Has anybody else noticed that certain pieces in the Combat Tech DPS set (which is typically used by Pyrotechs, as it's set bonuses pertain mostly to Pyrotech) provide more AIM and POWER than their Eliminator counterparts, albeit with a decrease in endurance? Coming from a purely DPS standpoint, it seems to me like the optimal set for Mercenary PVE DPS would be: Head: Combat Tech Chest: Eliminator Gloves: Combat Tech Legs: Combat Tech Feet: Eliminator The difference in itemization between this set and a pure eliminator set equates to: +30 AIM, +34 POWER, -65 ENDURANCE (which is roughly 300 health). Of course, the 4-piece eliminator bonus of reduced rail shot cost would not be applied to this set but the 2-piece crit increase on tracer missile bonus would still be applied. It seems to me like this would be the optimal set for PVE DPS, as the minor hit in health is hardly anything to be concerned about and the heat cost of rail shot is easily managed. The only downside to this set that I can see is that it looks, visually, a little mismatched (the combat tech helmet sure is ugly). Thoughts, ideas, comments? Any feedback is appreciated. Bad. You lose out on a free rail shot which is huge in a pve dps rotation. Just switch out the enhancements in rakata for the dropped end/crit/surge from nightmare runs or for the end/crit/surge from columi. Who cares about the enhancement level in the gear, as long as it has the stats you want. Full Rakata (minus one enhancement, keeping a columi enhancement for crit/accuracy) http://i39.tinypic.com/10z2u5e.jpg Not bad imo - from crunching numbers and doing what tests I could in game this is pretty much the BiS for Arsenal at least - if you are using Pyro in PVE you are doing it wrong anyways. Also running crit/surge trinket (puts me at 43.5% crit and 79.26 surge when popped) with power adrenal and the Kinetic Damage proc trinket. Edit - and 65 Endurance is 650 health - 10 hp per point of endurance. Edited February 16, 2012 by Iandayen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosDystopia Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I highly disagree that the free rail shot is huge in PVE DPS rotation, and if you are overheating in the raid content of this game then you're probably not playing appropriately. I have not found a problem with heat management through using the set of 3/5 CT, 2/5 Elim in our runs which consistently clear both operations in nightmare 16. As I only have two T3 eliminator pieces, I have to swap into some T2 in order to experiment with the difference in heat management through the four set bonus... but it's not much of one. From a pure DPS stand point, I am thus far definitely voting for the 3/5 CT 2/5 Eliminator set, but I won't be able to really calculate how much of a difference it is from the other alternative of 1/5 CT and 4/5 Eliminator until I get two more T3 duplicates (hands and legs), and until there are some meters to analyze (if meters ever become available). Edited February 16, 2012 by ChaosDystopia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iandayen Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) You are joking right? Rail shot being free > rail shot being 8 heat. End of story. It is a free 3.5k+ crit every 15 seconds - completely removes rapid shots from your rotation if you use it, allows more tracer missile spam. Rail shot is a big part of your DPS, if you don't use it on cooldown you aren't doing it right. tracer missile as filler, heat seaker and rail shot on cooldown, unload on barrage procs. I rarely have to use vent heat, even on a "burn phase". In a raid environment I see rail shots hitting for 4k+ most times, and have seen it hit for 5k with my adrenal/relic popped. And once they fix the rail shot stacking buff to actually work like it's supposed to it will be even better. So yes, a zero heat 15 second cooldown high damage instant cast hit is very much worth it. Edit - as far as raiding experience goes, We do one night clears of 16m nightmare - Have the titles from under 2 hour clears - done on 16 man, not 8. So yes, I have raiding experience. Edited February 16, 2012 by Iandayen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosDystopia Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 How is rail shot NOT free if you don't overheat? Rail Shot has a 15 second cooldown regardless of set, but costs 8 heat if I use a set that gives 30 more AIM and 34 more POWER. Considering that with proper heat management, the only time anybody should ever go over 40 heat is during a nuking phase (and then we have vent heat)... rail shot is free either way. If you need an 8 heat ability on a 15 second cooldown to be free in order to not overheat your mercenary, then you're just flat out bad and being carried through your operations. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iandayen Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) no, I'm maximising my damage potential, unlike you evidently. Using no heat for rail shot gives me more heat for more tracer missiles. I don't have to manage heat. At all. With high enough crit and free rail shot i never go over 40 heat unless i'm mindlessly spamming tracer over and over again. 8 heat not spent on rail shot is 8 heat you can spend on something else and not having to rapid shot. I can guarantee you i'm not carried through in our operations. I am one of the first ones to kill my maurader and have done so in a very short time. I don't get carried. But if you can't even do the simple math that 8 free heat every 15 seconds is worth a LOT more dps/damage than 34 aim and power then there is no point in me being here trying to help you see that. Edited February 16, 2012 by Iandayen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordConnery Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You are joking right? Rail shot being free > rail shot being 8 heat. End of story. It is a free 3.5k+ crit every 15 seconds - completely removes rapid shots from your rotation if you use it, allows more tracer missile spam. Rail shot is a big part of your DPS, if you don't use it on cooldown you aren't doing it right. tracer missile as filler, heat seaker and rail shot on cooldown, unload on barrage procs. I rarely have to use vent heat, even on a "burn phase". In a raid environment I see rail shots hitting for 4k+ most times, and have seen it hit for 5k with my adrenal/relic popped. And once they fix the rail shot stacking buff to actually work like it's supposed to it will be even better. So yes, a zero heat 15 second cooldown high damage instant cast hit is very much worth it. Edit - as far as raiding experience goes, We do one night clears of 16m nightmare - Have the titles from under 2 hour clears - done on 16 man, not 8. So yes, I have raiding experience. This is correct. I do this exact same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkenDragon Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 here is the thing about the "free rail shot" argument, if your not overheating with the 8 heat rail shot then of course making it free wont make any difference in your game play but if your not overheating, then are you using your heat to it's full potential? can you squeeze more damage in without using rapid shot? cuz if you ever use rapid shot then that 8 heat rail shot is costing you. cuz that rapid shot could have been replaced by the 8 heat rail shot and tracer missile. and if you never overheat then either you found a magical rotation that just out does everyone. or your just not doing the maximum amount of dps as possible. now without a meter and a dummy (something to shoot at while collecting data) its hard to tell wither or not we're doing maximum dps I would believe that the most optimal rotation would have you getting 80 heat every 2 mins, this way it'll cause you to use vent heat, and your rotation starts over and by the time you get to 80 heat again, your vent heat would be cooled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iandayen Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The only way I overheat is by only using tracer missile + Heatseekers. It's very easy to manage heat in arsenal spec, and the free rail shot just makes it easier and allows you to do more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The only way I overheat is by only using tracer missile + Heatseekers. It's very easy to manage heat in arsenal spec, and the free rail shot just makes it easier and allows you to do more damage. ^^ this is my opinion as well i can throw in other non standard attacks (we have quite a few not in the standard rotation after all) like missile blast (rarely because it is such a hog) or fusion missle (mmmm dots) or edart... 4 free rails = 32 heat i can spend somewhere else when you are pushing up to that 39 barrier and unload is down you whack a RS and your heat is going down 5/tick vs going down 3/tick if it is not free, and that is on top of the free 8 heat you got from not paying for it. free rail ftw, not even sure what the counter argument is, esp when you can just use duplicate piecs to get the same stats on the eliminators set by swapping out mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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