Drakior Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Since the other thread on this issue turned into a fanboy pissing contest I am going to try and get this issue back on track. The problems with Project and Throw are simple. They are severely under powered. Project is not as bad, although the delay is great between using it and it hitting, most people can work a way to use this as an advantage to quickly do more damage and or a fire and forget missile. But it is still underpowered. My only request for this would be to actually allow a 3 second stun for players as it does for NPC's. Throw on the other hand has so many problems it gives me a headache. One, its channeled, which is the worst possible option for it as is. Two, its not AOE, why would it not be AOE when its launching multiple objects? Three, limited range, this says it all... its just such a short range its not that viable. Four, even tho it has a slowing effect, it isn't useful. So my ideas for changing throw are as follows and wouldn't even break the game or force the programmers to do to much work. Simply make it AOE with slow and or upgradable stun. Simple as that. Anyone else have a thought on this? Please no "Lore this" or "But ******** did this!" or "You cant do that ******** did that!" This is a game. I am trying to give ideas to make it fun, fair, and enjoyable. Edited February 10, 2012 by Drakior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, please buff TK throw so I can map all my buttons to it and just roll my face on my keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valin-krai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 TK throw has a what, 35 max? 30 meters as a sage and slows the target, and crits at around 5k over 3 seconds (1.5 if you have psychic projection). You are still a consular if your complaining about range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakior Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) TK throw has a what, 35 max? 30 meters as a sage and slows the target, and crits at around 5k over 3 seconds (1.5 if you have psychic projection). You are still a consular if your complaining about range. Hmm yes I should have said that I am a shadow. So as a Shadow... it is useless at the moment. And even so I would have no way of knowing if the numbers you show are accurate. And anyway would what I asked to be changed not make sense? at-least the AOE part. Edited February 10, 2012 by Drakior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valin-krai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The Sage is already powerful enough, you can't give us AoE on TT. It is a concenetrated stream of projectiles, not a shotgun blast so I don't see how it would work as a Shadow thing. A shadow isn't a directly offensive force user anyway, they use it for stealth and to augment their skills with a saber. Edited February 10, 2012 by valin-krai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakior Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 The Sage is already powerful enough, you can't give us AoE on TT. It is a concenetrated stream of projectiles, not a shotgun blast so I don't see how it would work as a Shadow thing. A shadow isn't a directly offensive force user anyway, they use it for stealth and to augment their skills with a saber. I understand this and you do have a point. I am just asking for work in the talent trees. One I do really want Throw to be AOE even if it is just in a cone. It is very annoying to have a skill that is pointless to use. And every time I see it it annoys me more because it does not make sense. Why would you throw so many small objects and NOT hit more then one person? And if it is really a "concentrated stream" of projectiles then it should Stun the opponent! Not just slow them. And it seems no one is commenting on my idea for Project so am I at-least good there? It is basically only a PvP change since as of right now it does not stun players like the description says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Hmm yes I should have said that I am a shadow. So as a Shadow... it is useless at the moment. And even so I would have no way of knowing if the numbers you show are accurate. And anyway would what I asked to be changed not make sense? at-least the AOE part. Some of your abilities will be useless. For example, as a sage the double saber strike one is uesless. The three swings one is close to useless. Disturbance is useless for non-TK sages and it's a Sage base ability. Adding a three second stun on so short a cooldown is dangerous. First it's kind of crazy powerful. Second, it means if you have to be careful about not making your target immune, you give up your ability to use project. It makes the ability both OP and situational, which is pretty impressively bad. Edited February 10, 2012 by Mavnas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Some of your abilities will be useless. For example, as a sage the double saber strike one is uesless. The three swings one is close to useless. Disturbance is useless for non-TK sages and it's a Sage base ability. Adding a three second stun on so short a cooldown is dangerous. First it's kind of crazy powerful. Second, it means if you have to be careful about not making your target immune, you give up your ability to use project. It makes the ability both OP and situational, which is pretty impressively bad. Yep, and of course you would have to make lightning a cone, too. And Shock a player stun...on a 6 sec timer? ROFL. Its not a serious suggestion, I hope. These classes already have AOE skills and multiple cc's, some of the best in the game...what the op is talking about would throw balance to the wind. A player stun on a 6 second timer? That would be about as unfair and unfun as you could get. Especially when the class already has 3+ cc's as it is... Shadows used to have a 15m range, which was nerfed in beta, right before launch. So any increase in power for their abilities is completely out of the question, I would imagine. So some things dont work as well as they used to, tbh. But TK throw is not useless. I will typically stealth into a cluster of mobs, aoe with whirling blow, then aoe and knockback with force wave. This puts the targets out of saber range, so I TK throw, then force breach, then maybe project. There might be one mob left at this point, but usually not depending on the companion. If there is, they are on the tank, so I come in from behind and finish them. And you take very little damage by knocking them out of melee range. Throw still slows them as they try to get back in range. Also Throw is nice b/c force potency increases its range to 30m. So it is good for tagging mobs or hitting that almost dead pvper that thought he was safe and out of your 10m range. And yes, the other thread has turned into a mess, but it is primarily talking about animations and appearance, not function, beyond the failure of project to be instant, like its counterpart, Shock. The original post should have made that clear, although the title could have been more specific, I guess. But the ops suggestions are so outlandish, so out of balance, that it isnt surprising that he didnt get a response. Always best to start your own thread, anyway. Edited February 11, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrunip Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Having played as both a Sage and a Sorcerer I find that the similar moves for a Sage are less helpful. For example: Sorcerers have that awesome lightning/slow down/channeled attack that can't really be dodged. Sages have the flying pebbles that seem to only go in a stream instead of "latching" on to the enemy. NOTE: I have not played a sage since before the 1.1 update, I am not aware of whether or not my experience is valid now. I remember playing a LvL 14 operative and taking out a LvL 47 sage in 1 vs. 1. As I recall I was able to effectively dodge the pebbles, only taking minimal damage from the initial activation. It seems to me that the sages abilities are not as useful as the sorcerers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I understand this and you do have a point. I am just asking for work in the talent trees. One I do really want Throw to be AOE even if it is just in a cone. It is very annoying to have a skill that is pointless to use. And every time I see it it annoys me more because it does not make sense. Why would you throw so many small objects and NOT hit more then one person? And if it is really a "concentrated stream" of projectiles then it should Stun the opponent! Not just slow them. And it seems no one is commenting on my idea for Project so am I at-least good there? It is basically only a PvP change since as of right now it does not stun players like the description says. If they made it AOE then it couldnt be used as much in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valin-krai Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Honestly, none of it makes any sense. BY your logic, we should also make tracer missles follow you from LoS, Sever force permenately gimp other force users and hell, why not make Force Quake destroy the enviornment? You can't apply logic to game mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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