Vigilance for pvp

[Chiqui]

I used to read a lot of pvp threads on how vigilance sucks for pvp and all because it's supposed to be sustained damage but it's really bursty as well. I made a quick video just to show that it's not as bad as it was made to be.

 

If anyone else has a video or some advice that goes a long with vig spec please share. I only really picked up Vig at 50. I used to spec tank even for pvp but got fed up with my dmg being healed through.

[Faolon]

Good video.

[Chiqui]

thanks!

[PoppieXL]

Nice video man, Can I ask your build that you used

[therandeffect]

Oh wow someone from my server posted a video. Kind of funny watching you kill people I see all the time, ha ha.

[Sathid]

I started a guard last week and was curiuos how others thought about the Vig line,my main being a scrapper and looking over the tree's in the guardian lines the Vigilance looked like something more my playstyle,,thanks for the vid.

[Sinatore]

Hey man, love the video. I played a 50 vig guardian since launch and recently rerolled though. I'm not denying that you're a great player because you actually are very very skilled. However with that said, some of those players you fought were absolutely terrible. Especially the BH's. Horrible back peddlers, and not even utilizing half their skills.

 

Again, love the video, not saying you are bad by any means. Just would have liked to see less retarded players :D

[skateboardc]

I love vigilance, however this video still proves, its the weakest tree we have. This tree has no CC, no damage, no survivability. I play defense, you should try it, dont even bother with focus its dumb. With full battle master gear, I am seeing higher numbers and more damage in defense than vigilance. My spec is on the bottom, you should try it. It utilizes alot of master strikes and guardian slash hits like a truck.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbkuRZcMMZh.1

[Chiqui]

I love vigilance, however this video still proves, its the weakest tree we have. This tree has no CC, no damage, no survivability. I play defense, you should try it, dont even bother with focus its dumb. With full battle master gear, I am seeing higher numbers and more damage in defense than vigilance. My spec is on the bottom, you should try it. It utilizes alot of master strikes and guardian slash hits like a truck.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbkuRZcMMZh.1

 

Haha the funny thing is though that I played Defense exclusively even leveling up, as well as a good few weeks with it in PvE and PvP. The thing that ruined it for me totally was being out healed by anyone while sat there and tried to dps. True story I was in voidstar and found a solo mercenary I sat there dpsing him while he healed until they got to the datacore not my proudest moment haha

 

 

As for my setup: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crZIMrRruddMR.1

 

I have tried allocating different points in different places but this is the setup that i'm most comfortable with.

[Moddim]

Great video, was nice seeing someone focus on objectives for once.

[theMornox]

ive dealt with focus versus vigilance for a while, on the forums as well.

 

outcome:

 

focus slightly wins at utility comparison

(vigil offers situational outstanding utility, especially for huttball - unremetting. still overall focus offers far more general utility)

 

focus wins at overall damage in RANDOM warzones (bursty damage style of focus is not bothered much by disturbance of the rotation)

vigil wins at overall damage in PREMADE warzones (group support lets you unleash your full pve dps potential)

 

focus wins at group benefit (far better protection cuz focus can play soresu as standard stance)

 

 

generally focus is considered a strong and flexible allrounder while vigilance has some great potential, which is more situational

 

 

edit:

focus wins at valor progression, since focus supports medal gain:

- protection is more easy. no warzone i dont get to 10k protection, some i get 50k

- 10% heal of cc break ability can crit giving you 2,5k heal medal

- 2,5k dmg medal is guaranteed, 5k damage medal is doable with little preparation.

 

expecially 5k dmg and 2,5k heal are only for focus build. thats a lot of valor over time.

Edited February 6, 2012 by theMornox

[theMornox]

this was supposed to be a youtube comment but went too long:

 

i watched the video now, im playing a champion geared battlemaster guardian on focus spec, soresu form. i agree to nick (@youtube) that this video makes me more confident of my opinion to play focus over vigil.

 

commenting your points:

vigilance offers better dps considering sustained dmg. yes. but the rotation is more vulnerable to disturbances. you show a lot of 1v1 fights. there it might be true (none of your opponents seriously tried to kite you, i know there are few people who are good at it). in warzones its not. you are talking about burst on the forums and youtube - i am not a friend of showing off big numbers, but seriously i didnt see a noticable burst in your video. very constant dps.

 

 

considering the "feel" watching your gameplay compared to my focus guardian i can say watching you felt like having not much of control over the fight, lack of possibilities and it felt like your enemies dont lose hp. from the "feel" i doubt that vigil dps would be higher than focus, yet i know it is by rational thoughts ^^

 

and by the way, leave out fights of opponents not fighting back.

i feel like giving a thumbs down for this video but do not, because there are FAR worse pvp videos out there. i appreciate the effort

Edited February 6, 2012 by theMornox

[Fliguy]

I love vigilance, however this video still proves, its the weakest tree we have. This tree has no CC, no damage, no survivability. I play defense, you should try it, dont even bother with focus its dumb.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbkuRZcMMZh.1

 

I haven't played Vigilance or Defense, but I will disagree with you that Focus is "dumb".

 

You do make some good points, but don't just put down a spec because it's not your playstyle. I am quite successful at it. I rack up the medals in WZs and in open world PvP 1 on 1 I usually send the enemy either running or to the med center.

[Fliguy]

ive dealt with focus versus vigilance for a while, on the forums as well.

 

outcome:

 

focus slightly wins at utility comparison

(vigil offers situational outstanding utility, especially for huttball - unremetting. still overall focus offers far more general utility)

 

focus wins at overall damage in RANDOM warzones (bursty damage style of focus is not bothered much by disturbance of the rotation)

vigil wins at overall damage in PREMADE warzones (group support lets you unleash your full pve dps potential)

 

focus wins at group benefit (far better protection cuz focus can play soresu as standard stance)

 

 

generally focus is considered a strong and flexible allrounder while vigilance has some great potential, which is more situational

 

 

edit:

focus wins at valor progression, since focus supports medal gain:

- protection is more easy. no warzone i dont get to 10k protection, some i get 50k

- 10% heal of cc break ability can crit giving you 2,5k heal medal

- 2,5k dmg medal is guaranteed, 5k damage medal is doable with little preparation.

 

expecially 5k dmg and 2,5k heal are only for focus build. thats a lot of valor over time.

 

I have been playing Focus spec as well, in Soresu stance. I have been reading on some of the other threads, however, that we should be in Shii-Cho form, and should have all Power and Surge mods on our gear, as our build is all about the Force Sweep crits.

 

What say you?

[Vaipyr]

I've been thinking about trying a Vig build purely for PvP (PvE be damned, I'll respec back to tank spec for that) and after playing around with the builder I think this spec seems pretty decent: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500zMZhrrMrhddMRZGb.1 Since you have more experience though I'd welcome a review and critique.

*I should add I still plan to run around in Soresu form mostly, hence some of the choices for point placement. Master Focus (because it might seem odd) is simply for the 10s reduction on stasis.*

Edited February 6, 2012 by Vaipyr

[theMornox]

I have been playing Focus spec as well, in Soresu stance. I have been reading on some of the other threads, however, that we should be in Shii-Cho form, and should have all Power and Surge mods on our gear, as our build is all about the Force Sweep crits.

 

What say you?

 

i come from a wow gladiator warrior and wanted to keep the great stance dancing mechanic in this game, so i began with regularly switching between soresu und shii-cho. i rather quickly came to the opinion, that the dps benefit of shii-cho over soresu is rather minor and does not make up for the lack of survivability and protection compared to soresu (for most warzone situations).

 

oberserving losing situations in warzones i never thought, that shii-cho would have been better for the overall situation, as i very regularly use protection on allies to win the fight rather than hunt for insane crit kills, which seems to appeal to many people.

i consider this playing a hybrid DD/Tank over a pure DD, because the hybrid is more flexible and in the current state almost as good in damage as a pure DD in shii-cho.

 

i understand others are more oriented at playing a pure DD, where shii-cho is favored. i prefer tactical play.

 

 

EDIT: considering your statement of build gameplay around sweep crits, i think this is only partially true. yes, sweep crits are an important part of our dps, however bladestorm and force exhaustion are very big parts as well. its not a one-trick-spec as it easily appears. of course i am very careful not to miss my sweep (non-slowed opponents, knockbacks).

 

i guess sweep makes about 20-50% of our damage, depending on AoE.

 

when gearing up i prefer survivability over higher crits. depends on whether you group play much or not. if you usually have a pocket healers it makes sense to go fure pure damage. in my case i switch between solo and group play often, therefor i appreciate more endurance and expertise very much. for example i use the rakata endurance stim to get extra hp. note that some heals are based on HP-Percentage

Edited February 6, 2012 by theMornox

[Chiqui]

this was supposed to be a youtube comment but went too long:

 

i watched the video now, im playing a champion geared battlemaster guardian on focus spec, soresu form. i agree to nick (@youtube) that this video makes me more confident of my opinion to play focus over vigil.

 

commenting your points:

vigilance offers better dps considering sustained dmg. yes. but the rotation is more vulnerable to disturbances. you show a lot of 1v1 fights. there it might be true (none of your opponents seriously tried to kite you, i know there are few people who are good at it). in warzones its not. you are talking about burst on the forums and youtube - i am not a friend of showing off big numbers, but seriously i didnt see a noticable burst in your video. very constant dps.

 

 

considering the "feel" watching your gameplay compared to my focus guardian i can say watching you felt like having not much of control over the fight, lack of possibilities and it felt like your enemies dont lose hp. from the "feel" i doubt that vigil dps would be higher than focus, yet i know it is by rational thoughts ^^

 

and by the way, leave out fights of opponents not fighting back.

i feel like giving a thumbs down for this video but do not, because there are FAR worse pvp videos out there. i appreciate the effort

 

 

I do agree that Vigilance is by far more sustained than Focus, and the general rule for pvp is to go for Burst instead. Although I like vigilance better because of it's sustainability. True no one kited me to well in the video except for maybe the one sorc, but I found when I was sweep spec that a good player can limit how many times I really sweep and can counter pretty easily.

[Tityn]

I used to read a lot of pvp threads on how vigilance sucks for pvp and all because it's supposed to be sustained damage but it's really bursty as well. I made a quick video just to show that it's not as bad as it was made to be.

 

If anyone else has a video or some advice that goes a long with vig spec please share. I only really picked up Vig at 50. I used to spec tank even for pvp but got fed up with my dmg being healed through.

 

Nice video, however it is not that bursty compared to focus. I have played both viglance and focus for PVP and I fare far better in focus over vigilance. Focus has tons of burst, you can always charge around targets and are constantly getting free Blade Storms and instant crit force sweeps with Zealous Leap and Charge.

 

Vigilance is nice and is still decent for PVP but if you really want to burst someone down quickly.... I would go Focus. Still a great video man, keep it up!

[Ichibukaka]

It's nice to see a Vigilance Guardian video. I play a VigG myself and really enjoy it.

 

I read some interesting comments here and felt maybe I could share some of my own - mind you, I'm only level 45 and so my words may not carry the weight of that of the 50s!

 

Anyways...

 

Vig is not, in my opinion, situational. It breeds very flexible rotations, and I find it to be useful in many situations - even when running in Soresu. All of it's main moves run on a 9 second cool down, which means, every 6 moves the rotation restarts, with each primary attack adding a DoT too. regardless of where and how the rotation starts, once it starts, it's almost unending until someone dies. Because of Shien stance (Focus using moves refund 1 focus), Blade Storm being free and Sundering giving 3 focus (gotta love tier 1 defense), and sweep being free, focus generation is rarely an issue. Plus, the talent Narrow focus gives one focus when taking A0E, and the talent Defiance generates 4 focus when stunned, slept or knocked down (which is often).

 

A very appealing all around rotation is: (Assuming you've gotten focus - Saber+leap, or Combat Focus) Sunder, Plasma, Overhead, Sunder, Storm, Sweep. After sweep, start over, and the next time, instead of sweep us Strike; and then the next time use sweep again instead of strike. The damage is really great! Sure, things change and you have to adjust your self, but thats life. And since these moves rotate so quickly and easily it leaves moves such as Force push and Force stasis available for those situations when they are very necessary to be available.

 

Regarding being kited: This is usually going to happen if your leap is on cool down. Leap roots for 2 seconds, which, because of the 1.5 second global cool down, leaves that extra .5 seconds to hit Freezing Force (which, as I like, if specced is free). This lowers the opponents speed by 50% for 9 seconds. Kiting is not the end of the world, just remain present and wait for an opportunity. Plus, some people are going to pop their CC on you after your leap, and because of the talent Unremitting, it won't work.

 

Because Plasma, Overhead, and Blade Storm all put on a DoT, very often you'll find that as a VigG a stealther can't escape into stealth during a fight: the DoT will take them right back out. And, all the DoT are elemental, which is rarely mitigated; and if so, not by much . . . point: they add up!

 

I've many times run Vig with Soresu on . . . and yes it is perfectly suitable. The main difference from Shien is you have to use strike more often. With Force Leap, Saber Throw, Combat Focus, Stasis, Sunder, and Strike (all focus generators), its easy to find the opportunity to use all the moves in a quick and seamless fashion - plus, Sweep is always free, Defiance is often triggered (4 Focus), and after Leap Blade Storm is free. I'm only ever focus starved when I'm not paying attention (which, sadly, for a newb like me can be often).

 

Regarding CC: All Guardians have Awe, Freezing Force, Force Push, and Stasis . . . And most these abilities will yield the necessary means to pop a Force Leap, or go 2v1, or just play old get away and survive.

 

This tree, if played properly, is a Nuisance to others. Once you get on them you honestly won't miss a global cool downs worth of time where no damage is being dealt. Personally, it took me quite a while to get familiar with its mechanics and its style. But the more I play my VigG, the more easy it begins to feel. If you're thinking of trying one out, I definitely recommend it!

 

-A Newb

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ichibukaka