Do Guardians actually make for good tanks?

[Junebugman]

I'm stuck between rolling a Vanguard, Guardian, or Shadow for tanking. I've had a few years experience tanking as a Protection Warrior back during WOTLK days and now that I'm on swtor, I'd like to start tanking again. However I keep hearing a lot of people saying that Guardians can't hold aggro, which from experience as a wow tank = terrible MT. Do Guardians have major tanking problems or are they viable? I mean do I have any reason to roll a Guardian tank over a Shadow or Vanguard?

[Grandmasterslash]

Guardians have no problems with single target threat, it's AoE threat that really sucks as a Guardian.

 

Are they the weakest of the three tanks? Yes

Are they broken/horribly underpowered? No

 

You can still tank bosses just fine with them, in fact they have some really great cooldowns and arguably the highest damage mitigating cooldown in the game(Warding Call). Expect to do slightly more than the other two tanking classes though.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and coming from a tanking background in WoW myself, one thing I would recommend is to be very liberal with your usage of taunt. It's not quite the "Oh ****" button it was in WoW. It only has around a 15 second cooldown in this game, and actually BUILDS a bit of threat on top of getting the target to attack you. It's often a pretty good idea to weave a few of these in on single target bosses if you have really jumpy dps(at least for the first 30 seconds or so).

Edited February 5, 2012 by Grandmasterslash

[Junebugman]

How exactly do Guardians fight compared to a shadow tank? By that I mean like what's their style of tanking and etc But I do hear about Guardians being weak, which keeps feeding this voice in the back of my head saying that if I wanna do end game it'd be best rolling some other tank. But what I hear are rumors and nothing confirmed and I don't want to dismiss a class based on an unconfirmed rumor.

[Grandmasterslash]

How exactly do Guardians fight compared to a shadow tank? By that I mean like what's their style of tanking and etc But I do hear about Guardians being weak, which keeps feeding this voice in the back of my head saying that if I wanna do end game it'd be best rolling some other tank. But what I hear are rumors and nothing confirmed and I don't want to dismiss a class based on an unconfirmed rumor.

 

 

The misconception here is that weakest=unviable, which is 100% untrue.

 

I've tanked every raid boss in normal and Hard mode up until this point, and I have never experienced a problem tanking a boss based on my class. In fact, most of my healers comment that I am hands down the easiest tank to heal that they have ran with. This might also have to do more with the fact that I've really kept up to date on my class research though.

 

I always prefer survivability over threat, and to be honest Guardians have great survivability. As a Biochem with an on use trinket, I have around 6 cooldowns I can rotate through for when the going gets tough. (Enure,Saber Ward, Warding Call, Rakata Medpac, Rakata Armor Adrenal, Trinket).

 

As far as tanking styles? Well, that's a bit trickier. Guardians feel very awkward at first, but once you learn the flow (Sundering Strike-GCD-GCD-Sundering Strike-GCD-GCD...), it becomes second nature. Shadows are much much more proc based, usually they are staring at their buff bar waiting for ability procs while they are tanking bosses. Not sure about Vanguard, never played one and don't know any of em that tank.

[Junebugman]

How do would you recommend for someone to level as a guardian? Should I go 10-50 tank spec'd or would you recommend something like 10-40 dps spec and then at 40 grab the lvl 40 tank pvp gear and just lvl out to 50 tank spec'd?

[Grandmasterslash]

Well, I leveled as DPS but honestly I get the feeling that leveling as a tank might have been faster. It's up to personal preference I guess.

 

If you DO level up as tank though, do it in DPS gear. Leveling up everything is tankable in DPS gear, hell I tanked pretty much everything up to 50 tanking as a DPS spec. No reason to gimp your downtime by picking up tank pieces.

 

Then when you hit 50, start picking up 50 tanking pieces through Champion bags in PvP/cheap purples on the GTN.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Grandmasterslash

[DuronXM]

I'm a level 50 juggernaut, I went from 10-43 as immortal, then I went rage to finish up 44-50 now I sit at 50 still rage spec'd, I deal an insane amount of damage due to how centralized my stats are (Very high power / surge = giant force smash crits)

 

As for juggernaut tanking, I've noticed they have the least amount of perks towards actual tanking when specced fully into immortal and actually hinder their ability to hold aggro due to low damage!

[Asmodeus]

Full specd Immortal Juggie, no prob holding aggro at all. You just a) dont know what your doing or b) the group is not giving you time to build up agro before they start.

 

Anyone who says Juggie Tank is not good does not know how to play it. Anyone who compares classes in WoW to classes in SWToR need to go back to WoW.

[Grandmasterslash]

As far as leveling goes, I would actually recommend a hybrid spec of http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMG0uZhGrMMhdzMM.1. This spec works well for leveling because it has a bit more damage than the traditional tanking spec and also gives you flat DR and health (which is important for tanks that aren't geared). Later on at level 50 when you get better gear I would respec to the traditional tanking build of http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMGcubrouRZhGM.1.

 

 

 

Short version:

Leveling/Undergeared 50 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMG0uZhGrMMhdzMM.1(Hybrid)

 

Geared 50 spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMGcubrouRZhGM.1(Defense)

[Junebugman]

Btw I was thinking about making my crew skills Biochem/bioanalysis/Diplomacy just for the BoP Medpac, Adrenal, and Stimpack. Do you guys recommend this if i'll be pve tanking and the occasional pvp tanking? Are the Jedi Knight's companions skills well complimented for those skills?

[Grandmasterslash]

Btw I was thinking about making my crew skills Biochem/bioanalysis/Diplomacy just for the BoP Medpac, Adrenal, and Stimpack. Do you guys recommend this if i'll be pve tanking and the occasional pvp tanking? Are the Jedi Knight's companions skills well complimented for those skills?

 

Yes and yes.

 

 

Biochem is currently the best tradeskill in the game, ESPECIALLY for tanks due to reusable medpaks, stims, and adrenals. Even with the incoming nerf, not having to make your own stuff and essentially having 2 cooldowns to pop at all times is amazing.

 

Doc and T7 are both tailor made for Biochems, with T7 offering a Bioanalysis+10 and Doc having +5 to crit when making Biochem stuff.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Grandmasterslash

[Malissant]

I'm stuck between rolling a Vanguard, Guardian, or Shadow for tanking. I've had a few years experience tanking as a Protection Warrior back during WOTLK days and now that I'm on swtor, I'd like to start tanking again. However I keep hearing a lot of people saying that Guardians can't hold aggro, which from experience as a wow tank = terrible MT. Do Guardians have major tanking problems or are they viable? I mean do I have any reason to roll a Guardian tank over a Shadow or Vanguard?

 

We run 8 man Ops at end game and both our tanks (me and the other) are defence specc'd JGs, they are perfectly viable and aside from the complaining don't really have all tha tmuch trouble.

 

The difference between the tanks is completely on the tanking style. I haven't played a Vanguard, so I don't know all about their abilities - but they do have ranged attacks, which adds another dimension to their playstyle.

 

Shadows rely on procs and ability synergy to be effective. They have better AOE damage, which equates to better AOE threat overall - but I feel like they have less overall mitigation and survivability. My shadow isn't levelled up to 50 yet so I'm still ~40 and can only go from what I've found up to that point.

 

JGs rely more on overall mitigation for survivability and are heavily damage dependant to control threat. They lack AOE damage, which translates to lacking AOE threat management. They also have minor positioning problems with ranged heavy mob groups due to not having a "pull" skill and instead having a "push" skill. Creative use of the push skill yeilds the same results, but takes more practice.

 

On my Shadow I usually feel more resource starved then I do on my JG since while doing damage the JG is building focus while the Shadow is using it and has to wait for it to regen naturally.

 

EDIT: Oh, and coming from a tanking background in WoW myself, one thing I would recommend is to be very liberal with your usage of taunt. It's not quite the "Oh ****" button it was in WoW. It only has around a 15 second cooldown in this game, and actually BUILDS a bit of threat on top of getting the target to attack you. It's often a pretty good idea to weave a few of these in on single target bosses if you have really jumpy dps(at least for the first 30 seconds or so).

 

My understanding about the taunt mechanic is different. Since the tooltip specifically states that it forces the mob to attack you for 6 seconds the likelihood that it actually adds threat is minimal. It should be used as an oh **** button because if you lose aggro it's the only sure way to get it back in a hurry. Keep in mind if you do lose aggro someone has topped you by 10% on the threat table, which means yuo need to snap up an immediate 20% of the current threat level to get them back (without a taunt).

 

I've taunted a mob three or four times and haven't hit it in the meantime and it always goes back to the target it was previously attacking.

 

Similarly taunting CC'd targets is pointless, they never attack you after they wake up, even if you get off 4 taunts through the 60 second CC. Since CC adds such minimal threat taunt's threat add must be miniscule if any.

 

How do would you recommend for someone to level as a guardian? Should I go 10-50 tank spec'd or would you recommend something like 10-40 dps spec and then at 40 grab the lvl 40 tank pvp gear and just lvl out to 50 tank spec'd?

 

I levelled into my chosen spec (shield) all the way until I got Guardian Slash, then switched over for my last points into Vig to pick up the extra damage and such. The game is designed to allow you to level however you feel most comfortable. I would recommend if you are wanting to be a tank, that you actually level as a tank so you get used to fighting as one and how to use your skills to be the most effective. Practice with your DPS companion, let them jump in to a group first, then follow and try to pull all the threat onto yourself.

 

If you DO level up as tank though, do it in DPS gear. Leveling up everything is tankable in DPS gear, hell I tanked pretty much everything up to 50 tanking as a DPS spec. No reason to gimp your downtime by picking up tank pieces.

 

Don't do this, speccing as a tank and wearing the wrong gear is just wrong. For PvP people get away with using DPS gear because our mitigation doesn't work as well (it still works fine IMO) but in PvE you're really screwing yourself in a tanking spec with DPS gear.

 

 

-------------

 

 

Really the answer to all your questions is: Do what you're going to have fun with. There isn't a standard "do this and do that" in this game to "be the best". If you're going to have fun as a JG in heavy armor and a single saber or a shadow with stealth and a double bladed saber or a vanguard with a blster is really up to you.

[BlueRyder]

I love my Guardian Tank. I personally have not seen this issue of being unable to tank groups because we get an AOE taunt. The real trick to tanking as a guardian is to not focus on one target. Saber throw the enemy on the left, Force Leap the enemy in the Center, and then Blade Storm (for free because Momentum x3 is awesome) the guy on the right, re-position a little and let loose a Force sweep to get even more attention on you. Now you have a group of 4-5 all focused on you.

 

Some times I use the area taunt before Force Sweep to get mobs attacking me, which I usually shield or guard, and this builds up Courage which will make Force Sweep free, then I'm able to use Cyclone Slash to keep attention on me. Force Leap's cool down is pretty short, so if need be I can Leap to another target and Hilt Strike it then run back to the main fight (if no one is attacking the Hilt Strike target it will come running/stat shooting you when it comes too)

 

Whats even better is when you get Guardian Leap, because now when the healer gets a mob on them I can Guardian Leap over to them, Hilt Strike the mob and then Force leap back to the main brawl. Once again the enemy that was Hilt Struck will focus it's attention on you after the 4 sec stun.

 

By using ALL your tools, switching between targets during initial attacks, liberal use of both Taunts I have found that Guardian tanking is the most fun I have ever had in an MMO.

 

BTW, I run a 35/5/0 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crGcurrkuRZhM.1

 

What this gives me is a free and powerful attack immediately after Force Leap, Riposte for 1 focus that boosts Def ratting (which leads to more uses of Riposte...BTW Force Stasis + Riposte + Slash= 3 second stun with no interruption of massive damage which means more threat on you) Courage that can make Force Sweep free or Blade Storm cost 1 focus which gives me an awesome shield effect.

[JEDI_Lord_Wong]

Hi all, I use a Vanguard tank so I would like to give you some idea of how we play. Off hand, I could just say we're a shooting type of tank, but that's a misconception. Why? Because as I level up my Vanguard, I find myself mostly getting close to the enemy and hammering him with the butt of my rifle instead of just shooting from a distance.

 

Now I don't know much about Jedi knights as I haven't played them yet, but instead of Focus, which you have to build up like Warrior's Rage, we start out with 12 Ammo, which depletes as we use them. It regenerates faster when we have more ammo, and slowly if we empty our Ammo using our abilities. You may have noticed some troopers throwing some sort of artillery at you, which is called mortar volley. Very good damage but long cooldown anc channelling. Nevertheless, good opening for AOE agro.

 

Like one of your lightsabre stances, we also have something called Ammo Cells, which is different type of attacks. Ion Cell, which is the one Vanguards use, not only gives 20% damage reduction, but increases threat of each shot and ability as well. It also has a chance to give a nasty DOT, which is why for Vanguards, Tech power is a moderately important stat.

 

Anyway, if you want a WoW comparison, I can safely say we're Paladins with Big Rifles. We get our aggro by damage instead of taunting, and we have a lot of great AOE abilities starting with Explosive Surge, which essentially sends a fireball with you at the centre. And if things get out of hand, we have a few taunting abilities as well.

 

Damage mitigation wise I can't compare for sure if we're more survivable then Guardians or Shadow. Like Guardians, we do wear the most heavy armour, and as mentioned before, despite being ranged, an important part of our rotation is Stockstrike, essentially a rifle butt. Lots of talents are available to improve the damage, critical damage and side benefits of stockstrike. I know, it's strange that a rifle butt can be more damaging than a lightsabre. At level 33, I think I got a 1,000 stock strike critical strike before.

 

Sorry I can't answer your question on Guardian's survivability or Aggro abilities, but since no Vanguard has volunteered his two cents, here's mine.

 

If you want to know what I'm doing here, well, lets just say I'm looking at Guardians after my trooper is finished, except I'm aiming for DPS. I'm kinda praying that Guardian DPS is no less powerful than a sentinel, though I seem to be getting impression that Guardian DPS is inferior to Sentinels or other dps classes in general.