PvP system suggestion / request (Warning: Long read due to example)

[Syllus]

This post is in response to the current issues discussed about SWTOR PvP and most recently Illum and it's revamps. I wanted to place it here however due to the length and the fact that I want to submit this as a request as well.

 

If I may, I would like to point out a few simple things that have time and time again proven themselves to be truths in the games that I have played like this.

 

1. Every game that I have ever played where the heart and soul of PvP was based on point grinds, had these issues (current PvP issues under discussion). There is no "true fix" for it that I have seen so far. When you make the primary focus of the game a point grind and ESPECIALLY when you are grinding those points to buy gear, it WILL lead to camping, and objective trading, which while it can be fun for a while, ALWAYS ends up as a boring point grind with one side or the other frustrated due to being locked down and unable to respond.

 

2. This type of PvP is desirable by many, not to kick the overloaded bandwagon anymore, but I will say it this once, by ex-WoW players, while WoW may not have been the first game to implement PvP as a point grind based mini-game, it certainly was the largest, and the most accessible, meaning that it is what most players at this point in time are used to, so they either like it, or simply are used to it and therefore go with it and grind their points. However there are those of us who were playing these games LONG before WoW and other similar games that used this style of PvP, who remember how some of the older games implemented it and how satisfying that was, how rewarding those type of systems were, and will never be satisfied, or even interested in this type of point grind, matchup PvP beyond the occasional break from level grinding or raiding.

 

So, while I fully understand the need for this type of PvP, and support it for the sake of those who know it, and love it, I would like to suggest an alternate type of PvP, that could easily co-exist with the current type, that does not historically suffer from the camping, and unbalancing issues that these match style games have consistently suffered. A form of PvP, that is not about point grinding, is not about playing a game 100 times to get that new piece of armor, that both brings people together in a common goal, and is extremely satisfying and rewarding.

 

NOTE: Please keep in mind that I am supporting BOTH styles of PvP, I know full well that MANY people love the current point grind based match ups, I would simply like to propose an alternate style, that in my humble opinion (and that of every other person I know that consistently b*tches about PvP in current games that use this mini-game approach) was the basis for some of the most satisfying and rewarding PvP to ever exist in a video game. I am not under the illusion that the implementation would be fast and easy, it will take a lot of work and time, however, in the eyes of many, if both existed in SWTOR, then you would have the best of both worlds, you would then effectively cater to all types of PvP oriented players.

 

The system I refer to is a persistent system (not mini-game based) that utilizes capture, control, and defend mechanics with rewards for capture and defend being based NOT on points or gear or any type of shallow immediate gain, but rather in faction wide bonuses and rewards over time. I will explain them all in a bit the quick overview is that you have many persistent control points, that can be captured and then claimed (aka placed under the protection of) members of that faction. The entire faction gains benefits from their side owning this control point, this in turns gives EVERYONE a stake in the game when it comes to defending it, as no matter who captured it, you all suffer if your side loses it. Furthermore you have one large benefit that is given to the faction who controls the majority of these Control points at any given time. This provides the drive to capture as many as you can beyond the desire to have certain faction wide benefits from the select points you control and helps to prevent the "control point trading" issues that you currently see in places like Illum.

 

OK, there’s the 10,000 foot view, now I will go over an example implementation of this system and how it could potentially play out in SWTOR. (Keep in mind that the current form of mini-game aka matchup PvP should remain fully in effect as it would not effect this system at all and will still cater to those who love that style of PvP) OK then... the example.

 

In this example we will use 2 planets as the PvP fronts to keep it simple, in an actual implementation there could be multiple planets used to provide an immense variety in setting and flavor. But for this example we will use the most PvP prominent planets at this point, Tatooine, and Illum. In this example we will keep the planets at their current level ranges for simplicity and illustration.

 

Tatooine and Illum are both part of the PvP collective known as the "Warfront". The success of one side or the other depends on victories in both of these places; though they are separate planets they are both part of the same persistent war effort that is being waged across the galaxy and as such are equally important to the whole, regardless of their level ranges.

 

First let’s look at Tatooine and the roles it plays in the whole. Aside from being the home of a few very iconic figures what could a desolate place such as Tatooine possibly offer up to the warfront, directly, not much, indirectly however, Tatooine is widely known for 2 things that could play a large part in the desirability to control the PvP warfront there, it's numerous scrapyards/junk dealers, and it's ever present criminal element. This plays directly into SWTOR's current salvaging and underworld trading aspects, i.e. resources for crafting, which crafting in turn helps everything, including the war efforts. While we could certainly find story reasons to implement other aspects into the rewards for Tatooine control, we will focus on these 2 for our example.

 

On Tatooine there are multiple compounds, (control objectives) that can be captured by players, we will create 2 right now, one for each reward type, Scrapyard-A, and BlackMarket-A.

 

Each compound has a defense rating that starts at 0. This rating is effectively the level of Player defenses currently installed at the compound. (These act as NPC/automated defenses that provide the initial line of defense during an attempted takeover while the controlling faction is notified that their compound is under attack, more on this later) Whenever the defense rating is at 0 it reverts to NPC control as described below, and neither player faction gains benefits from it.

 

Scrapyard-A starts out under the control of an NPC group of Toydarians (think Watto from The Phantom Menace) who employ a group of mercenaries to act as guards for their scrapyard compound. This is a sample of the NPC group to which control of the compound would revert to, if/when the owning faction let the defense rating of this compound reach 0. Owning this scrapyard, gives every member of the controlling faction a buff that provides a 15% increase in salvaging returns and a 15% increase in credits for selling junk (grey items) to vendors.

 

BlackMarket-A starts out under the control of a low ranking Hutt crime lord and his band of Gamorrean followers. Again if the Owning faction lets the defense rating of this BlackMarket reach 0 once it has been captured, control would revert back the NPC Hutt and his Gamorrean guards. Owning this BlackMarket, gives every member of the controlling faction a buff that provides a 15% return on all underworld trading missions, and a 15% reduction in Auction listing costs on the Galactic Market.

 

OK, now we have established what the PvP objectives are, and what the owning faction will gain from it, let’s look at a sample scenario of taking it over and what it could entail.

Currently Scrapyard-A is Occupied by the NPC group of Toydarians and mercs, a group of empire players decide to take it over to gain it's bonuses for their faction and form up a group to head to Tatooine, before they leave they send out a call for reinforcements in PvP chat and soon have enough people coming to form an ops group. They all transport to one of the empires starports on Tatooine and head out towards the Scrapyard-A compound.

When they arrive at Scrapyard-A they see that it is currently controlled by the NPC group and begin their attack on the compound. This consists of several phases, the first of which is breaching the compounds outer walls. The outer wall defenses consists of mechanical turrets on the walls, rifle toting mercenaries, and the outer wall gates which must be taken down in order to gain access to the compounds courtyard (Phase 2).

 

As the groups of empire players begin their march on the compounds outer walls the NPC turrets and snipers rein fire down upon them causing significant damage which prevents them from getting to the gates with enough force still alive to take it down. They must adjust their tactics to take the outer wall. They need a large shield generator to protect the group from fire as it marches on the wall. Normally an artificer can make these however not on this scale; he needs help from those outside his profession to create such a large shield generator. Thankfully he knew this in advance and together with a couple of his friends (an armormech and cybertech) they had successfully assembled just such a generator prior to the attack. He deploys his large shield generator around the small ops group and once again they march on the gates of the outer wall. This time they are shielded from the attacks of the defenders and are able to cover most of the ground to the gates before the shield generator gives out and as a result have a much larger group present to attempt to take down the gates.

 

Meanwhile a small group of agents breaks off from the main attack force, the group is made up of primarily snipers, with a couple of operatives. Normally the snipers on the walls have the range advantage since they are shooting downwards but their fire is focused primarily on the group advancing towards the gates. This provides enough of a distraction for the sniper team to start making its way around the compound and work to eliminate some of the NPC snipers on the walls. The pair of agents meanwhile takes yet a different approach, the stealth to the less protected sides of the compound and begins to scale the walls. Their goal is to secretly gain access to the ramparts and begin to disable the turrets. They must be very careful as to not alert the NPC defenses of their presence, if they are exposed they will be vastly outnumbered and outgunned.

 

The new tactics prove solid, the sniper team takes out several of the NPC snipers and the agents are able to disable a couple of the turrets before being discovered and forced to flee back outside the walls. This combined with the crafted shield generator has allowed a large group of attackers to reach the gates. Once they are near sith warriors force leap up onto the wall ramparts and begin to dispatch the remaining defenders while the group below works to break through the gate, now that the main force of defensive fire has been somewhat quelled, the groups healers are able to shield and heal the group through the remaining fire being aimed at them from above. It looks as if tactical planning and solid execution has paid off and soon the group breaks down the gates, breaches the outer wall and dispatches the remaining security forces. A brief rest to recollect themselves and they will be ready to start their advance on the inner courtyard. (Another tactic may have been to deploy player crafted ion cannons on the battlefield which players of the attacking group could control and begin to focus fire on other, less defended areas of the out wall, in hopes of blasting holes in the wall large enough for the main attacking force to get through (NOTE: all player crafted machinery for compound sieges - aka siege weapons would require combined efforts of 2 or more crafting professions to create, i.e. the above generated shield generator might require a cybertech to create the main control board to handle the complex command routing for the actual force generators to fire in sequence to allow it to create such a large shield, and an armormech to create enhancements to help boost the force generators ability to absorb the blows, while the artifice has to assemble it all since they have intricate knowledge of how the actual shield generators work etc.)

 

The empire ops group has regrouped and begins its assault on the compounds courtyard to gain access to the main bunker where they will be able to fully take control of the compounds mechanical defenses. However a long republic soldier (player) witnessed the initial attack on the compound and quickly sent out messages to the republic PvP chat that the empire was trying to take over ScrapYard-A. Since the benefits of controlling the compound effect all players in the empire faction, if they were to gain control of even a low level compound such as ScrapYard-A, it would provide boosts to all of their members, which could in turn effect the warfront efforts elsewhere, and as such it is important to the republic to prevent empire occupation of even a small outer rim compound such as this one. The republic players quickly mobilize a strike team and head to Tatooine to try to prevent the empire from occupying the outpost, and possibly even gaining control of it themselves. The republic players arrive as the empire force is engaged in combat with the NPC defenders in the compounds courtyard and quickly move in to attack from behind, hoping to turn the tide in the defenders favor and eliminate the group of empire players. Caught in the middle it looks like the empire group will be defeated but suddenly more reinforcements for the empire arrive, the empire group had sent a call for help out in empire PvP chat when the republic forces arrived and another group of players nearby had joined the fight. The empire quickly dispatches the republic strike force and now with even greater numbers, easily takes the courtyard and begins the final assault on the compounds main bunker.

 

The main bunker is the hardest part of the assault (excluding republic player intervention as this is a constant unknown and by far the greatest threat the attacking empire force may have to deal with). The compounds most elite defensive personal reside within the main bunker as this is the control point for the entire compounds mechanical defenses. This would be the equivalent of a raid level boss fight in most games. Skipping ahead a bit, we will say that the empire group with its increased numbers is able to defeat this last defensive point and take full control of the ScrapYard-A compound. As the final defender falls, GuildX has the most members present at the assault and as such the responsibility of defending the compound falls directly to them (GuildX now controls this compound and its defenses). As an unexpected bonus, a scientist, ProfessorX was present at the ScrapYard compound at the time of the assault who was working on new tech for blaster technology; he is now put to work in the compound for the empire and as such provides every member of the empire faction with a buff granting 5% bonus damage to blaster type weapons. A message flashes up on the screen of every member of the empire faction, “ScrapYard-A on Tatooine has been taken and they will all now get 15% scavenger and junk sales buffs, GuildX now defends ScrapYard-A, the empire has also captured ProfessorX and put him to work and they will now all get a 5% bonus to blaster damage as well”. Congratulations go out through a series of tells and the empire players begin to enjoy their new buffs.

 

At this point, the compounds defense rating is set to 1 and new empire faction NPC’s and turrets spawn. They are minimum level NPC’s as the compounds defense rating is only 1. A timer degradation timer begins the countdown to when the compounds defense will decrease by 1. If GuildX leaves now then once the compounds degradation timer reaches 0 the defense level will revert to 0 and the NPC group will again take control of the ScrapYard and the empire players will all lose the buff provided by this compound. If the compound reverts back to NPC control, ProfessorX may likewise travel to a new NPC controlled location (though he may remain here as well). GuildX however, does not want to risk losing ScrapYard-A and decides to level up the defenses. The hit the compounds control panel and pay the costs to level up the compounds NPC defenses (this cost could be both credits and crafting materials). They level the compounds defenses up to a defense rating of 3. The NPC’s levels all increase accordingly making them better defenders in the case of an attack by the republic players, and providing the empire players more time to rally defensive forces when such an attack occurs. The compounds degradation timer continues to countdown but when / if it reaches 0 the compounds defense level will now be reduced to 2 instead of 0, the empire will retain control of the compound and continue to receive the benefits of both the compounds buffs, and the buffs from the captured scientist, however the NPC defenders levels will drop accordingly. Players from GuildX can contribute credits and resources to the defense of this compound at any time so long as they control it and help maintain or even raise the defense level of the compound.

 

While the empire was busy taking ScrapYard-A, republic forces successfully took control of BlackMarket-A, giving the republic players the associated benefits of that compound. As the PvP warfront map updates and the republic players see that the empire has taken the nearby ScrapYard-A compound AND captured ProfessorX, they quickly decide to move on the newly captured ScrapYard in an attempt to acquire ProfessorX for themselves. The siege of ScrapYard-A begins anew, however this time there are empire players inside the compound from the beginning who immediately join the fight and assist the NPC defenders in defending the compound. As soon as the empire controlled compound is attacked by republic players, a faction wide message is sent out in PvP chat alerting all empire players that one of their faction controlled compounds, ScrapYard-A, is under attack by republic forces! Since no one wants to lose the valuable crafting buffs, and especially the damage buffs provided from ProfessorX, empire players quickly start to merge on Tatooine from all corners of the galaxy to help defend the compound, and their precious buffs.

 

Unfortunately the republic strike force is very fast and proficient, and is able to defeat the empire defenders and take control of ScrapYard-A before enough extra defenders could show up to help. The republic now controls both BlackMarket-A and ScrapYard-A. While this in itself does not grant them anything, the capturing of these 2 compounds on Tatooine, now put the total number of controlled compounds galaxy wide, in the republics favor, they now control more compounds than the empire players. All members of the republic faction now gain access to “Orbital Science Station X”. Republic players can now travel to and dock at the Science Station to receive special quests that award, and or buy, special prototype gear, crafting recipes, and enhancements that are unobtainable anywhere else! (These items would of course, be bind on pickup, and perhaps the purchasable items could be purchased by the points won in the existing PvP min-game warzones similar to current PvP vendors as well as credits?)

 

While this is just a sample scenario, it illustrates the overall concept of this type of system, open world, persistent PvP control objectives that provide faction wide benefits to the controlling side, with the added benefits of capturing key science personnel to gain powerful combat specific buffs faction wide, as well the necessity to control the majority of these objectives to give the entire controlling faction access to unique and powerful rewards only obtainable when your faction is “winning the galactic war”.

 

This gives every single player a stake in the game and more importantly “A reason to participate in the PvP”, it also prevents the overall feeling of a pointless point grind for gear (however you still have the current warzones as they are if that is your cup of tea!), the supplied benefits from controlling compounds and key science personnel could vary from crafting bonuses, to combat bonuses, to experience gain or loot bonuses and beyond, anytime a single compound is lost everyone feels the impact, no matter how minor, likewise every time a compound is won or a key science figure captured, every player on that side reaps the immediate rewards! Be warned though, getting caught in the Orbital Science Station X during a power switch could be devastating as the players from the new owners rush to take advantage of the benefits as they know that they could lose it at again at any moment!

 

I would like to note here that this system is not my own design, but is in fact modeled from an older game that I played for years. A game that IMHO had the greatest PvP implementation of any game I have ever played, and still to this day is the reigning king for the most enjoyable and rewarding PvP ever in an MMO! The game is extremely dated and the PvE aspects have always pretty much sucked, and enticed extreme boredom, but the PvP was the life of the game. If you have played the game yourself then I am sure you have already recognized the system I described as being modeled from the gameplay experience of Dark Age of Camelot known as Realm vs. Realm (RvR). (Man Warhammer Online was SUCH a disappointment! I had soooo hoped that it would contain the same RvR elements and form of implementation of DAoC seeing as how it was developed by the same company! BOO mythic for conforming to modern simplistic mechanics and ruining what could have been the best PvP game ever! (DAoC with good graphics! )

Anyhow enough for now, I apologize for the sheer length of this post but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this as I have waited for years to see another game with PvP this engaging and rewarding, only to see game after game after game come out with the same simplistic mini-game point grind implementation and MAYBE, if we are lucky, random open world encounter possibilities, as the only forms of PvP.

 

Finally a game has been released that I can see myself playing for a very long time to come from a story and coolness factor, and that is developed by a company that historically listens, actually listens to its customers, however once again I have been extremely disappointed in the choice of direction for PvP, while games like huttball are fun and a neat idea, they very quickly lose their “oh shiny” effect and I once again, begin to long for the days of DAoC RvR style PvP. If you feel the same way, please comment here and let Bioware know! Who knows, maybe we will once again see this great form of PvP, and personally I cannot think of a better setting to play it in than SWTOR!!!

Edited January 24, 2012 by Syllus

[Syllus]

Please forgive the gramatical issues in the post above, I was under pretty short time restrictions while writing this, I will edit it tonight as I have time!

[Zachajariah]

Made a suggestion like this on another thread. It's an amazing idea. However, I think more could be added to it. Maybe every planet has these similar objectives and are allowed to be faction controlled. When one faction controls all nodes I feel like a capital ship or some type of world boss opens up? In my class story, the capital ships were always the most fun.

 

I'm not nearly as creative as you do I will let you ponder my idea and build on it.

 

Great post!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Zachajariah

[Syllus]

Excellent suggestion! I merely formulated my sample from my past gameplay experiences in another game that I dearly loved the PvP implementation. The system could and I assume would undergo all sorts of modifications specific to both modern games and especially the SWTOR storylines such as your suggestion!

 

The important thing to me is to get enough support for the idea of persistent PvP objectives that provide faction wide bonuses (giving everyone stake in the game and reason to participate) as opposed to just having current MMO designs of point grind based mini-games, for Bioware to hopefully take notice and consider implementing something similar for those of us who love this type of PvP!

 

I am glad to see I am not alone in this desire and encourage those who feel similarly to both speak up and to add to this idea with your creativity!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Syllus

[NasoFlyrider]

Excellent suggestion for tackling the current problem with Illum. This game could use a more persistent pvp system as you mentioned. I for one hope that Bioware reads this post and really looks into developing a more engaging and fun pvp experience.

 

One of the best parts of open world pvp in my eyes is having an actual purpose or objective. In swg it was taking down bases, in DAOC castles. In illum we camp the republic base and get insta killed by turrets.

 

TLDR: Make pvp more objective based in a persistent open world environment on multiple planets such as Tatooine.

[Zachajariah]

Another thing to note is that you can give players incentive to defend bases by putting a cantina at each node. Combine this post with the cantina LFG, and mini games posts like pazaak, etc. pod racing in tatooine is my favorite idea so far but ya, make the NPC's respond to an attack and it can be a really amazing experience while people do their thing in a cantina. More immersion ftw!

 

Edit: I'm surprised not many responses! In for the free bump!

Edited January 24, 2012 by Zachajariah

[Zachajariah]

Bump! Would really like Bioware to see this!

[IxionSet]

I am incredibly jazzed about the PvP scenario you laid out. No point grind, objective based PvP with persistent elements and a dynamic environment. Sounds exciting!

[naidfetg]

I see this as THE perfect PvP implementation. This would be amazing! Actually provide a reason and incentive to PvP. As it stands now, I avoid Ilum, probably to my own detriment.

[Piriste]

No no no no no.

 

Not gonna work with the faction imbalance. sounds fun though.

[Syllus]

No no no no no.

 

Not gonna work with the faction imbalance. sounds fun though.

 

"Faction Imbalance", like everything else in SWTOR so far regarding numbers, is a percieved issue. (Unless you know of somewhere to actually see how many republic and empire players are on a server? If so please let me know) If not, then you are most likely mistaking the numbers of those who choose to participate in "open world" PvP, with the numbers of the actual players.

 

Make PvP, fun, rewarding to all, and give everyone some stake in the game (persistent rewards for factional success, losses for factional failure, and you just may see a lot more people start to participate which could totally change the perception of number imbalances in current areas such as Illum.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Syllus

[RKGray]

In any OWPvP, faction balance needs to be adressed. One way to do this is to provide some sort of buff to the lighter populated faction during battle on the PvP planets; something along the lines of bolster, except it affects health and armor when defending (i.e. within the boundries of a currently held base) and damage damage and healing on the offense. These buffs are exchangable, and no player can have both at the same time. These buffs are ONLY availabe if there is a significant numerical disadvantage (possibly stacking?).

 

Faction imbalance can be a real problem, and can discourage players from participating. Any persistent PvP objectives needs to take this into account.

[IxionSet]

In regards to faction imbalance and the buff mentioned in the above post, what about some sort of NPC spawn capability once numbers hit a certain gap? Although.........yeah that might be to hard to accomplish with a dynamic PvP environment. It would have to be instanced then, because you can't have an entire server rushing to PvP objective A or B, and at that point population could be monitored for an NPC spawn assist. Discuss moar! Moar ideas! Moar! MOAR! MOAR!

[Syllus]

I think, that this right here, is actually the beauty of this type of system, IF it is implemented properly. The problem with open world persistent PvP in ANY game, is not necessarily one of faction numbers, but moreso, with the number of people from that side who are willing to come out and defend their claims. Those are willing to spend time and energy in the actual PvP areas, fighting and protectiing their factions holdings.

 

What you have currently is snowballing catch 22. The numbers are unbalanced on the battlefield, so new players do not bother to come and join in, if new players won't come and join in, the sides remain unblanced, as this ugly circle continues, the act itself becomes more and more boring, and pointless, so less people from the losing side come, which creates an even greater imbalance.

 

If the only reason to come and fight is to gain points and bloat your ego, then it is only fun if you are winning. Why would you come if you know your side is outnumbered and going to lose? The purpos eof this system is to give people a reason to come, and come in masse. And the system implementation has to support this.

 

The key points of import with implementation are:

1. Give bonuses that are worth fighting for as a reward for controlling an objective.

 

2. Make the bonuses faction wide so that no matter who actually controls it, EVERYONE feels like they have ownership of it, because EVERYONE is benefiting from it, and NOONE wants to lose it. (it is amazing how much people will fight to retain that 10-15% buff in exp or loot that they are getting on all of their characters because their side controls XX compound on the warfront, and we won’t even discuss how many will fight to preserve a 10-15% crit bonus on crafting efforts type of buff! )

 

3. Make it extremely evident to everyone in that faction when it is under attack. Post a big message in bold red letters across the middle of the screen, XYZ compound on Illum is under attack by the [insert opposite faction here] forces. If it falls the [insert your faction here] will lose [insert buff benefit here]! (not so big as to hurt gameplay of course though )

 

In the game that I played that I based the original post off of, it was amazing how quickly people would just flat out drop whatever it was that they were doing, and rush out to the frontiers to defend a keep or a castle, ESPECIALLY if there was a relic in it! Likewise, the attacking side rarely suffered from numbers too since the people in that realm wanted those buffs for themselves!

 

It is hard to explain, but of the many years that I played that game... the one thing that I never seemed to notice or complain about, was a numbers imbalance. Sure it happens, everything happens from time to time, but the sheer mechanics of the system PULLED people in, it made them WANT to fight, defending your relics became priority #1, who doesn't want an EXP bonus when trying to level up an alt? Who doesn't want their crafting to consistently have better results than before?

 

And then there is the pride issue. Staving off an attack from the other side, knowing that you just helped preserve a major advantage for every person in your faction, that the enemy tried to take something valuable to your personal gameplay experience away from you, and together with your peers you beat them back, and drove them off, and kept what was yours... (or vice versa... you just walked in and took what you wanted from the enemy and as a result your actual gameplay experience will be better for it!) Ya, sorry, as cool as it is, a game of huttball will NEVER give that kind of satisfaction!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Syllus

[Zachajariah]

Bump for an awesome idea. These world PvP threads need more love!

[Glorthox]

I just wish it is more casual and less hardciore for gear upgrades in pvp, i can understand working to get gear, im used to point grinds in wow, but this kind of grind seems to take forever and less funw ehn people are already camping in warzones. Bags dont really prduce any upgrades and it literally does take forever to see that first upgrade, Where as others seem to have all the luck, I talked to someone whose opened 4 out of 5 champion bags and got 4 upgrades where as ive opened 9 and never seen one. So im finding myself asking the burning question, why am i playing again? Its like wow , im max level and im logging in with nothing to do and leveling another character just seems like im back to where i started in wow. I enjoy the warzones, they are fun, but when you spend 6-7 hours tryin to get that one upgrade and it never happens it becomes frustrating.

[froggie]

Bump Bump Bump... It is a great idea!

[Zachajariah]

Bumping it to the top again!