[Suggestion] Jet Defence: Healer/Utility Balance

[Cypardus]

Skip down to ##### Suggestion (long or short) ##### if you just want to see my idea for Bounty Hunters + Troopers. The rest is just extra fuel for haters and flamers

 

I get exasperated at all the crying and complaints in the forums: this is NOT a cry and NOT a call for 'nerf' or 'buff'.

 

In my opinion, I've been playing MMO's for 15 years (on and off) and there are many great reasons why I will continue to pay for subscription and I have complete faith in the development team to resolve the bugs in time. But that isn't within the scope of this post.

 

I'm playing one character with no plans to have any alts. I've been 50 for over two weeks and have levelled (and continue to play) entirely as a Bodyguard Merc. I've done all normal mode operations and hard mode flashpoints. Thus I cannot claim any credibility for hard/nightmare operations. I thoroughly enjoy PvP'ing and am roughly level 30 valor (I know it's not massive, but it's just an indicator that this isn't based on me doing 1 game @ level 10).

 

1) PvE normal mode operations I don't feel any weaker than the other healers I've been grouped with. We don't have a combat rez or aoe (over 3 targets), but I can live with that. Heat management is (in my opinion) a great feature and I have no complaints.

 

2) PvP I again don't feel particularly weak, I'm basically fully PvE specced healer and can heal as well as most. As a full healer, I can generally beat rubbish or poorly geared players 1v1, but have little option but run (or pushback) when I'm against a decent player - which I have no problem with, I am a healer after all and personally I don't want an "I win" button. Plus I'm generally a team player, not a dualist.

 

##### Suggestion (long) #####

(obviously this mirrors with troopers)

 

People have mentioned the lack of an interrupt, which I'd welcome, but I have faith there is a reason why we miss one: this isn't really a game changer imo.

 

The main weakness I feel with the Bodyguard merc spec is our lack of utility regarding the influence of movement.

 

Let me elaborate; many people are shouting about sorc/consulars being overpowered, the only imbalance I can see is the 'control' of movement.

-They have shields, we have healing reactive tools

-They have aoe, but it has a cooldown. We have an instant with a short cd.

-They can regain force, we dissipate heat.

-They have hots, we have some instant heals.

 

All seems ok. But they get speed.. mhm ok, I guess we get heavy armour.

They get force pull... we have no way to influence movement.

Which means our utility in games such as Huttball is limited to either damaging (sub-par as healer), obviously healing, but if I want to try and help a bad group, I am limited to grabbing the ball and walking or throwing.

 

What I'd want to see is, "one" of:

1) Move a friend to me.

2) Move me to a friend.

3) Move me to an enemy.

4) Move an enemy to me.

 

You could easily argue that 3+4 wouldn't make sense as "we are a healer, we don't want to be close to an enemy" - and that’s a fair point, slightly short sighted, but I'll concede in theory it is counterproductive. Thus I'll investigate 1+2 further.

 

1) Move a friend to me.

Works the same as the sorcerers skill, keeps balance, but lacks the niche uniqueness. Giving this would probably mean Operatives should be given the same treatment? (although we have been singled out as not having combat rez).

 

How could it work? - same animation as grapple. Just works on friends only.

Personally I think this would be stronger, but possible the next option is more fitting.

 

2) Move me to a friend.

This just seems too fitting. To answer all the whines about "I have a jetpack, I want to fly". It also creates a further niche, Sorcs pull, operative stealth, mercs jump to friends.

 

"Bodyguard" you say? well that is fitting; for anyone who isn't still in school, you'll remember the dreadful Kevin Costner bodyguard film... what does every bodyguard do? "jump in front of the bullet". Whether an effect is included is up to the developers to judge; a heal, takes % damage, provides a buff, aoe heal or nothing at all.

 

To help balance, this would be only available for fully specced healers... Why not change the Warden talent to 4/4 and include 1/1 (or just add it to emergency scan) for "Jet Leap".

 

"how would this map to the mirror" - well troopers, in all their heroic glory could get a zip line, like Blizz has!

 

 

##### Suggestion (short) #####

 

"Jet Leap"

30 second cool down.

25 heat generated.

Jumps to a friendly target within 30 yards.

 

Added a top level talented ability to healer specced Merc+Trooper which jumps you straight to a friendly target.

 

 

 

Edit: Changed name from "Jet Defence" to "Jet Leap"

Edited January 20, 2012 by Cypardus

[Traumaron]

You should qualify your suggestion to say it is a PVP only ability. I cant see any reason I would ever need to jump to a friend in PVE. Mecenary heals are all about range. Powertechs have a pull ability, so in that sense BH are equal with other classes.

 

Also, any leaping from A to B abilities will break several Holocrons. Get one person to the Holocron and have your healer leap to them. This is why all of the other abilities are combat only IMO.

 

Lastly, why do all classes have to have the same abilities. I read people posting x class needs y ability because z class has it. I think Mercenaries are unique and play just fine. Of course I dont PVP so really dont have a frame of reference for it.

[Cypardus]

Thanks for your reply. Let me offer some discussion to your points:

 

 

You should qualify your suggestion to say it is a PVP only ability. I cant see any reason I would ever need to jump to a friend in PVE. Mecenary heals are all about range. Powertechs have a pull ability, so in that sense BH are equal with other classes.

 

Although this probably has more distinct benefits to PvP, it is not a PvP only ability.

With the limited sample of current operations we have EV:

1. It would be useful on the anni-droid (jumping to a friend behind a pillar)

2. It would be great on gharj for getting to the next island faster.

3. Not any good for pillars.

4. Not any good for the frozen champions.

5. Minor use on SOA to get out of pools and take a little less dmg from the pools.

 

To say is has "no use" is ridiculas. It has massive potential.

MMO's are all about movement - I can't believe you don't appriciate that.

 

Powertechs have a pull ability, so in that sense BH are equal with other classes.

 

That's like saying Sorcerors get a lightsabre so Assasins don't need one.

AC's are not interchangable are are unique 'classes'.

 

Just because a Jugganaut can do a damage attack, doesn't balance the Maurader.

They are independant.

 

 

Also, any leaping from A to B abilities will break several Holocrons. Get one person to the Holocron and have your healer leap to them. This is why all of the other abilities are combat only IMO.

 

Warriors get interceed (basically the same skill I propose) where they jump from A to B.

Warriors also get force charge to jump to an enemy.

Sorcerers get pull B to A.

 

I fail to see what this breaks giving mercs the ability. If you insist, the ability I suggest could be in combat only too.

 

 

Lastly, why do all classes have to have the same abilities. I read people posting x class needs y ability because z class has it. I think Mercenaries are unique and play just fine. Of course I dont PVP so really dont have a frame of reference for it.

 

The point is, all classes dont need to be the same, I'm not asking for force speed and every other skill, however, the classes have clearly been designed to be similar, thus allowing easy balancing; and I think that the movement aspect of the Merc is limited.

 

 

 

None of your points declare that you disagree with the skill, you just dont think you'd personally use it.

 

Does no-one else see the value in it?

[Shammus]

Skip down to ##### Suggestion (long or short) ##### if you just want to see my idea for Bounty Hunters + Troopers. The rest is just extra fuel for haters and flamers

 

I get exasperated at all the crying and complaints in the forums: this is NOT a cry and NOT a call for 'nerf' or 'buff'.

 

In my opinion, I've been playing MMO's for 15 years (on and off) and there are many great reasons why I will continue to pay for subscription and I have complete faith in the development team to resolve the bugs in time. But that isn't within the scope of this post.

 

I'm playing one character with no plans to have any alts. I've been 50 for over two weeks and have levelled (and continue to play) entirely as a Bodyguard Merc. I've done all normal mode operations and hard mode flashpoints. Thus I cannot claim any credibility for hard/nightmare operations. I thoroughly enjoy PvP'ing and am roughly level 30 valor (I know it's not massive, but it's just an indicator that this isn't based on me doing 1 game @ level 10).

 

1) PvE normal mode operations I don't feel any weaker than the other healers I've been grouped with. We don't have a combat rez or aoe (over 3 targets), but I can live with that. Heat management is (in my opinion) a great feature and I have no complaints.

 

2) PvP I again don't feel particularly weak, I'm basically fully PvE specced healer and can heal as well as most. As a full healer, I can generally beat rubbish or poorly geared players 1v1, but have little option but run (or pushback) when I'm against a decent player - which I have no problem with, I am a healer after all and personally I don't want an "I win" button. Plus I'm generally a team player, not a dualist.

 

##### Suggestion (long) #####

(obviously this mirrors with troopers)

 

People have mentioned the lack of an interrupt, which I'd welcome, but I have faith there is a reason why we miss one: this isn't really a game changer imo.

 

The main weakness I feel with the Bodyguard merc spec is our lack of utility regarding the influence of movement.

 

Let me elaborate; many people are shouting about sorc/consulars being overpowered, the only imbalance I can see is the 'control' of movement.

-They have shields, we have healing reactive tools

-They have aoe, but it has a cooldown. We have an instant with a short cd.

-They can regain force, we dissipate heat.

-They have hots, we have some instant heals.

 

All seems ok. But they get speed.. mhm ok, I guess we get heavy armour.

They get force pull... we have no way to influence movement.

Which means our utility in games such as Huttball is limited to either damaging (sub-par as healer), obviously healing, but if I want to try and help a bad group, I am limited to grabbing the ball and walking or throwing.

 

What I'd want to see is, "one" of:

1) Move a friend to me.

2) Move me to a friend.

3) Move me to an enemy.

4) Move an enemy to me.

 

You could easily argue that 3+4 wouldn't make sense as "we are a healer, we don't want to be close to an enemy" - and that’s a fair point, slightly short sighted, but I'll concede in theory it is counterproductive. Thus I'll investigate 1+2 further.

 

1) Move a friend to me.

Works the same as the sorcerers skill, keeps balance, but lacks the niche uniqueness. Giving this would probably mean Operatives should be given the same treatment? (although we have been singled out as not having combat rez).

 

How could it work? - same animation as grapple. Just works on friends only.

Personally I think this would be stronger, but possible the next option is more fitting.

 

2) Move me to a friend.

This just seems too fitting. To answer all the whines about "I have a jetpack, I want to fly". It also creates a further niche, Sorcs pull, operative stealth, mercs jump to friends.

 

"Bodyguard" you say? well that is fitting; for anyone who isn't still in school, you'll remember the dreadful Kevin Costner bodyguard film... what does every bodyguard do? "jump in front of the bullet". Whether an effect is included is up to the developers to judge; a heal, takes % damage, provides a buff, aoe heal or nothing at all.

 

To help balance, this would be only available for fully specced healers... Why not change the Warden talent to 4/4 and include 1/1 (or just add it to emergency scan) for "Jet Leap".

 

"how would this map to the mirror" - well troopers, in all their heroic glory could get a zip line, like Blizz has!

 

 

##### Suggestion (short) #####

 

"Jet Leap"

30 second cool down.

25 heat generated.

Jumps to a friendly target within 30 yards.

 

Added a top level talented ability to healer specced Merc+Trooper which jumps you straight to a friendly target.

 

 

 

Edit: Changed name from "Jet Defence" to "Jet Leap"

 

 

 

 

You know reading your post had me thinking of a way to deal with healing issues for a group as AOE damage happens

 

Maybe we could make it to where we take a portion of the group/raid damage now before we get upset lets keep in mind that bounty hunters are extremely good @ single person heals, its when they start healing more then one person that heat becomes and issue

 

We could combine this with shield to further reduce damage and use kolto shell on ourselves to suck up some damage

 

I don't know "thoughts?

 

 

Or possibly the ability to redirect raid damage to tank damage? I dunno maybe that's over powered but would be pretty cool and not all the damage but at least a portion.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Shammus

[Cypardus]

You know reading your post had me thinking of a way to deal with healing issues for a group as AOE damage happens

 

Maybe we could make it to where we take a portion of the group/raid damage now before we get upset lets keep in mind that bounty hunters are extremely good @ single person heals, its when they start healing more then one person that heat becomes and issue

 

We could combine this with shield to further reduce damage and use kolto shell on ourselves to suck up some damage

 

I don't know "thoughts?

 

 

Or possibly the ability to redirect raid damage to tank damage? I dunno maybe that's over powered but would be pretty cool and not all the damage but at least a portion.

 

 

I see what you are suggesting - maybe it could just have the Koloto Missle effect but without the limit of 3 targets?

 

On a 30 second cooldown + reasonably high heat cost, it wouldnt be spamable or overpowered. I don't feel like the Merc/Comm is at any healing disadvantage in 4/8man encounters; so that change wouldn't really change the dynamic of the Merc/Comm.

 

Just movement (mostly PvP) and utility in PvE which we're lacking.

[ElanTheBear]

I see what you are suggesting - maybe it could just have the Koloto Missle effect but without the limit of 3 targets?

 

On a 30 second cooldown + reasonably high heat cost, it wouldnt be spamable or overpowered. I don't feel like the Merc/Comm is at any healing disadvantage in 4/8man encounters; so that change wouldn't really change the dynamic of the Merc/Comm.

 

Just movement (mostly PvP) and utility in PvE which we're lacking.

 

Completely agree that we need just one movement ability for PvP. Can't speak to PvE, though.

[Cypardus]

That's the spirit.

 

I'm really suprised more Mercs/Comms haven't noticed this particular short fall.

[GrumpySwe]

That's the spirit.

 

I'm really suprised more Mercs/Comms haven't noticed this particular short fall.

 

Pretty sure most of us have noticed this, its the big problem with mercs.

 

Id like the jump to friendly target but id much rather have the jump anywhere within a certain distance but i guess that would be a bit OP

[Angryorc]

Even in the Republic start cutscene there's a Bounty Hunter that takes a proper jet flight to group up with imperial troops already in-march.

 

WE

 

WANT

 

JUSTICE!

 

a.k.a mobility

 

NOW!!

[chainsawsamurai]

I don't even understand why it has to be healer only. It gives the class both more mobility and more utility which is something the class could use. Juggs don't have to be tank spec for intercede and making movement oriented QOL improvements based on talents is pretty stupid in the first place.

 

 

As to your argument comparing BG Mercs to Sorcs, you forgot to mention that nearly everything you compared the Merc specs into while the Sorc has it straight out of the box.

 

30m Interrupt

30m Stun

30m CC

30m Pull of friendly target

Knockback

Sprint

Bubble

2 heals

Direct damage and DoTs while moving

Direct damage and DoTs while stationary

 

All of that is straight out of the tin. Hands down the most complete PvP toolset any class has been given.

 

Uninformed players complain about Mercs because any idiot can pick it up and spam Tracer.

 

Informed players complain about Sorcs because their toolset allows them, regardless of spec, to be a very versatile and powerful presence on any battlefield.

 

So I don't think the Merc community as a whole is out of line at all asking for a 30 second Charge to friendly which places a bubble or DR shield or even lets you take the full force of the next attack of your target. Or anything else for that matter. The class could use something that would not only improve mobility and utility but give them a higher skill ceiling and better toolkit for organized players to take advantage of.

 

Pretty sure most of us have noticed this, its the big problem with mercs.

 

Id like the jump to friendly target but id much rather have the jump anywhere within a certain distance but i guess that would be a bit OP

 

That would probably too much though. It is already easy enough to exploit terrain and I'm sure the devs don't want us charging to unintended places willy-nilly.

Edited January 26, 2012 by chainsawsamurai

[ElanTheBear]

Mercs need a movement ability!

 

What about like some sort of zipline ability?

 

Zipline

25 heat

60 second cooldown

Target an area for your zipline. If your zipline hits a friendly target, you are pulled to that target and gain 30% movement speed for 2 seconds. If your zipline hits an enemy, you are pulled to that target, and the target loses 30% movement speed for 2 seconds.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ElanTheBear

[Cypardus]

The class could use something that would not only improve mobility and utility but give them a higher skill ceiling and better toolkit for organized players to take advantage of.

 

[...]

 

That would probably too much though. It is already easy enough to exploit terrain and I'm sure the devs don't want us charging to unintended places willy-nilly.

 

I agree fully. At the moment, in wz's I feel perfectly adequate in terms of dmg/healing... but movement; everyone else jumps around the arena, pulling friends, pushing enemies, stealth... if we get pushed off, we just have to run back over and over.

 

We just want the chance to be "a powerful presence" as you so eloquently put.

 

And yes, I don't think a targetted jump would be a reasonable request.

 

 

Mercs need a movement ability!

 

What about like some sort of zipline ability?

 

Zipline

25 heat

60 second cooldown

Target an area for your zipline. If your zipline hits a friendly target, you are pulled to that target and gain 30% movement speed for 2 seconds. If your zipline hits an enemy, you are pulled to that target, and the target loses 30% movement speed for 2 seconds.

 

From my origional post: "how would this map to the mirror" - well troopers, in all their heroic glory could get a zip line, like Blizz has! "

 

I think mercs desperately need a jetpack style manover. The trooper would suit the zip line perfectly.

 

As for the extra effect; hell, I'd take anything from "no effect" or better!

I think having the flexibility to use it against friend or enemy is overpowered imo.

 

 

Without people wanting the moon-on-a-stick, what do people think a REASONABLE effect would be?

 

 

"no effect", "reduce threat to target", "transfer some of your current threat to target", "heal", "aoe heal", "sheild", "speed given to target", "speed to yourself"...

[_Nyth]

I would personally much rather have a free clickable move position. Think of the Kolto Missile marker and where you click you move.

 

Of course that comes with some technical limitations, etc. So if that is deemed too powerful and/or too hard to implement. The next best would be to move to a target, both enemy or friendly.

 

I think only moving to a friendly is too limiting for the specs we have. Arsenal could really do with an enhanced mobility tool as well.

[_Nyth]

Mercs need a movement ability!

 

What about like some sort of zipline ability?

 

Zipline

25 heat

60 second cooldown

Target an area for your zipline. If your zipline hits a friendly target, you are pulled to that target and gain 30% movement speed for 2 seconds. If your zipline hits an enemy, you are pulled to that target, and the target loses 30% movement speed for 2 seconds.

 

This would work, although frankly I think it would be more interesting to use the Jetpack (which is SEVERELY underused) for the BH and then use a rifle fired zipline for the troopers.

[ahwinters]

The reason this is a really big deal is that Huttball, in reality, is 75% of the PvP in this game.

 

Playing as a merc on huttball, either DPS or heals, is pretty frustrating. You can bash skulls or keep your team mates alive, but when it comes to moving the ball or chasing the ball carrier you don't have much to offer. Even when you are healing, before you know it they have used some kind of movement ability and way outdistanced you. The biggest slap in the face is that if we pick up the ball, it is a guaranteed long term snare, while other classes can immediately get alot of distance after picking up the ball with a jump or dash.

 

I don't feel the pain of not having a movement ability very much in open world or on the other WZ's. But fact of the matter is, I am playing Huttball way more than any other PvP.

[Yazule]

You should qualify your suggestion to say it is a PVP only ability. I cant see any reason I would ever need to jump to a friend in PVE. Mecenary heals are all about range. Powertechs have a pull ability, so in that sense BH are equal with other classes.

 

Also, any leaping from A to B abilities will break several Holocrons. Get one person to the Holocron and have your healer leap to them. This is why all of the other abilities are combat only IMO.

 

Lastly, why do all classes have to have the same abilities. I read people posting x class needs y ability because z class has it. I think Mercenaries are unique and play just fine. Of course I dont PVP so really dont have a frame of reference for it.

 

jump to a friend in world to get unstuck, or to get to that holocron! muah

[ElanTheBear]

Honestly, I don't really like "heroic leap"-like abilities (in reference to my own suggestion above). I just wanted to post something other than "bump" to get this post to the front page again.

 

As for the movement ability I tacked on to zipline, I figured with ALL the utility sorcerers and sages have, it's a small thing to ask for. Because this is a thread about movement, I wanted there to be a secondary movement ability on zipline (or rocket jump as it may be for us) in there as well.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ElanTheBear

[Cypardus]

but when it comes to moving the ball or chasing the ball carrier you don't have much to offer. Even when you are healing, before you know it they have used some kind of movement ability and way outdistanced you. The biggest slap in the face is that if we pick up the ball, it is a guaranteed long term snare, while other classes can immediately get alot of distance after picking up the ball with a jump or dash.

 

Precisely