Stats for Combat

[JediLupus]

The general consensus is that Watchmen is better all around spec in comparison to Combat based on experience and napkin math. Some of us despite knowing that Combat is the harder road, prefer the play style.

 

What I am wondering if based on the current mechanics of combat that instead of stacking +crit/+str etc that we should be bringing +accuracy up to a certain point to make sure more of our off hand hits. Also because any accuracy over 100% lowers the target's defense, if that would help overcome any of the armor/defense penalties our abilities use.

 

I could be missing what stat does what, but its something that I was thinking about when I should have been sleeping...

 

for reference here is current spec (only lvl 43):

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#5010cZGGrbddMoMs.1

 

Have artificing to keep my crystals, hilts and enhancements up to date as far what current gear is.

[Fascion]

Currently (and especially as a Combat spec) Accuracy isn't really worth focusing on. Reason being, skills which generate yellow damage numbers (in the case of a Combat spec, your big hitter in Blade Storm, as well as your Ataru procs) are completely unmitigated and cannot be shielded against, nor avoided through defense (nice one, Bioware!) From there, depending on the type of damage being done, it may even completely bypass the target's armor values. Sorry tanks!

 

I've actually been playing with Accuracy a bit as of the last week. And by playing with, I mean stripping it completely from my character in favor of Surge and Crit. To be honest, the only place I see any difference at all right now is in PvP against tanks who (foolishly?) bring a bunch of defense and shield to the table (because we do still put out a lot of white numbers (while other classes do mostly yellow.))

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fascion

[JediLupus]

it was because of those white numbers I was wondering. Looking at the character sheet main-hand has 100% hit chance where offhand has something like 60%.

 

I haven't seen anything saying that the offhand hit proc has a 100% hit chance, but doesn't mean it doesn't.

 

I guess then it would be helpful to have +armor pen stat to play with.

[Coramac]

Currently (and especially as a Combat spec) Accuracy isn't really worth focusing on. Reason being, skills which generate yellow damage numbers (in the case of a Combat spec, your big hitter in Blade Storm, as well as your Ataru procs) are completely unmitigated and cannot be shielded against, nor avoided through defense (nice one, Bioware!) From there, depending on the type of damage being done, it may even completely bypass the target's armor values. Sorry tanks!

 

I've actually been playing with Accuracy a bit as of the last week. And by playing with, I mean stripping it completely from my character in favor of Surge and Crit. To be honest, the only place I see any difference at all right now is in PvP against tanks who (foolishly?) bring a bunch of defense and shield to the table (because we do still put out a lot of white numbers (while other classes do mostly yellow.))

 

Blade Storm and Ataru procs are mitigated.

[Fascion]

Blade Storm and Ataru procs are mitigated.

Correct. As I had stated, it depends on the damage type. These two deal Kinetic and Energy respectively. Both are those are covered by the Armor stat.

 

Yellow-numbered abilities which deal Elemental (Cauterize DoT, Overload Saber, etc...) and Internal (Operative openers, lots of Sorc stuff) are NOT mitigated by the Armor stat, as well as being unavoidable/unshieldable.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fascion

[JediLupus]

Correct. As I had stated, it depends on the damage type. These two deal Kinetic and Energy respectively. Both are those are covered by the Armor stat.

 

Yellow-numbered abilities which deal Elemental (Cauterize DoT, Overload Saber, etc...) and Internal (Operative openers, lots of Sorc stuff) are NOT mitigated by the Armor stat, as well as being unavoidable/unshieldable.

 

Now I don't know if this is a good apples to apples, but I know at a point in WOW, a large portion of a feral cat's damage came from white damage. At this point in the game's lifespan a well played feral could easily be in the top 4 dps, if not #1 on boss fights.

 

Along the same lines each offhand hit/proc for combat is that much more important to hit for Combat spec because our damage comes from direct hits and not dots like watchmen.

 

Without being able to run a combat log its tough seeing what actually matters. Its more likely the spec just needs some review time by the Dev's to give it tweaks.

[Fascion]

Now I don't know if this is a good apples to apples, but I know at a point in WOW, a large portion of a feral cat's damage came from white damage. At this point in the game's lifespan a well played feral could easily be in the top 4 dps, if not #1 on boss fights.

 

Along the same lines each offhand hit/proc for combat is that much more important to hit for Combat spec because our damage comes from direct hits and not dots like watchmen.

 

Without being able to run a combat log its tough seeing what actually matters. Its more likely the spec just needs some review time by the Dev's to give it tweaks.

Both specs (combat and watchman) are largely defined by skills that gain little or no benefit from a secondary weapon (other than the obvious damage bonus.) For Combat, that is Blade Storm* and Ataru procs.* For Watchman, that is Cauterize* and MercSlash.

 

* Even if these did have an off-hand component, their yellow-damageness insures that, at least right now, they will always hit. MercSlash is the lone exception here, though I only ever see it as one number, which leads me to believe that no matter what the tooltip says, it hits with the primary hand only.

 

Past that, both builds are relatively similar with regards to the need for accuracy.

[JediLupus]

Both specs (combat and watchman) are largely defined by skills that gain little or no benefit from a secondary weapon (other than the obvious damage bonus.)

 

That seems to run contrary to some of the other napkin math I have seen for sent, but seeing how all of this is theory crafting who really knows.

[MBirkhofer]

Accuracy is basically terrible. in fact, skip the +acc talent in combat.

 

"normal" attacks have 90%hit rate mainhand, and 57% offhand hit rate.

This is strike, and only strike.

All other moves that are not purely force, are special attacks.

Zstrike, ataru, blade rush, prec strike, cauterize, master strike, etc.

100% main hand, 67% offhand.

Ataru will give +3%, you can't avoid. and you might get some on gear here and there.

 

Actual force moves. bladestorm, stasis, sweep, crush all have 100% hit, and are not mitigated by defense skill.

They are armor however.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Combat is about big crits, so stack critical rating and surge first, then once you are around 30% crit and 80% surge (or whatever the soft spots in the formula are), you can start worrying about Power. Edited January 16, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Fascion]

That seems to run contrary to some of the other napkin math I have seen for sent, but seeing how all of this is theory crafting who really knows.

There isn't much theory involved with anything I've mentioned thusfar. Right now, it is a known fact that anything that appears as yellow-damage (by the dealer; it's all red to those on the receiving end) is unavoidable through defense rating and unshieldable through shield rating. For us that means the likes of Cauterize, Force Sweep, Ataru procs... anything that reflects it's damage dealt in yellow text... completely bypasses all avoidance tanking stats, no matter what your accuracy rating is. Right now, armor is the only stat that does anything to yellow numbers... and then, only to sources dealing unknown, kinetic or energy attacks. Internal and elemental attacks pass right through armor.

 

But as I said, those are the skills which define their respective builds. If one is to benefit from Accuracy, both would. One might argue that, with Combat, there are potential Ataru procs to be gained with the likes of Strike, which clearly uses both main and offhand for it's attacks. That's about it, though.

[JediLupus]

I re-read tool-tips and the Ataru procs are energy damage, which falls under the 100% to hit category. Its weather they have a white offhand component or not.