Open question to all Sents

[EasymodeX]

How am I rationalizing? I'm using my head... Would you rather have a 30% additional speed when it's truly necessary and important, or have a less potent buff all of the time?

 

Dunno, for the past 3 pages of the thread it sounds like you've been touting Watchman's awesome "50% Trans uptime" as a major super important awesome facet of the spec. Now that you've finally realized that Focus has "99% Trans uptime", it's not a big deal.

 

K.

 

 

I like how you're calling me ignorant but you're basing your argument off of the tooltip when you clearly haven't used or tested the ability... It's really cute.

 

You're ignorant because you steadfastly insisted that Watchman has superior uptime on Transcendence.

 

You're doubly ignorant because you don't understand how guard damage works.

 

You're trebly(?) ignorant because you seem to lack an understanding of how to crack hard premades in a game with guard mechanics.

 

 

For the rest ... you mean the 30% bonus on the talent? The talent actually says "YOUR". I suggested that it's a good idea to do a specific test to verify that claim, since the tooltip is ambiguous. I didn't argue either way on the topic of the 'faster' Transcendence. You see, I actually asked first, instead of making preposterous claims like "OMG WATCHMAN HAS MORE TRANSCENDENCE UPTIME THAN FOCUS".

 

But since we're on the subject ... I think the +30% is superfluous once you already have +50%. On the other hand, it's pretty fun and can be effective for specific things, so I consider it solid value, but not 'core'. At the end of the day it's probably a positive tradeoff to drop the bleed/burn damage increase though, but not a significant one.

 

You seem to be highly sensitive with your Watchman fetish. Understand: I never said Focus was better than Watchman. You should pay attention to what people say when you communicate with them, not with what you think they say.

Edited January 12, 2012 by EasymodeX

[Oxime]

B here

 

1) Yes

 

2) Combat from 10-50 and valor at the moment is 40

 

Do i think our class is weak? Not Really the major problem with any melee class is ANY delay or lag that occurs. You need top internet and computer to be seriously competitive in any game where you are a melee class.

 

My major beef with the class and mechanics at the moment is the stutter of my abilities that stops me from casting instant cast moves. If this was fixed I think people would find sentinel to be much cleaner and far more reliable!

[McDaniels]

Dunno, for the past 3 pages of the thread it sounds like you've been touting Watchman's awesome "50% Trans uptime" as a major super important awesome facet of the spec. Now that you've finally realized that Focus has "99% Trans uptime", it's not a big deal.

 

K.

 

 

 

 

You're ignorant because you steadfastly insisted that Watchman has superior uptime on Transcendence.

 

You're doubly ignorant because you don't understand how guard damage works.

 

You're trebly(?) ignorant because you seem to lack an understanding of how to crack hard premades in a game with guard mechanics.

 

 

For the rest ... you mean the 30% bonus on the talent? The talent actually says "YOUR". I suggested that it's a good idea to do a specific test to verify that claim, since the tooltip is ambiguous. I didn't argue either way on the topic of the 'faster' Transcendence. You see, I actually asked first, instead of making preposterous claims like "OMG WATCHMAN HAS MORE TRANSCENDENCE UPTIME THAN FOCUS".

 

But since we're on the subject ... I think the +30% is superfluous once you already have +50%. On the other hand, it's pretty fun and can be effective for specific things, so I consider it solid value, but not 'core'. At the end of the day it's probably a positive tradeoff to drop the bleed/burn damage increase though, but not a significant one.

 

You seem to be highly sensitive with your Watchman fetish. Understand: I never said Focus was better than Watchman. You should pay attention to what people say when you communicate with them, not with what you think they say.

 

I have no problem beating guarded players, premades etc.... How is 30% movement speed superfluous... ever... That's a huge bonus to 4 players... Don't see how that could ever considered superfluous...

 

You might think focus is great now, even IF it is, in ranked matches anyone decent will know exactly what is coming and spread out before you can get your big 8k hits off on guarded players.

 

I don't have any kind of bias toward one spec or the other... Theres no reason to... I've used both specs enough to know that watchman does more damage and has more utility, and I'd like to see someone outplay me in focus.

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels

[EasymodeX]

You might think focus is great now, even IF it is, in ranked matches anyone decent will know exactly what is coming and spread out before you can get your big 8k hits off on guarded players.

 

Of course they will, of course they will. Naturally, you then pound their unguarded target with Master Strike, Blade Storm, and other pew pew, since they are now taking double damage compared to what they 'should' be taking. Your personal DPS drops by say, 25% since you are holding your Sweep, but your group DPS is only dinged by ~10%. The durability of your target drops by 100% because they no longer have a guard since their tank ran away like a ****.

 

More realistically, their tank will, in fact, maintain guard on that player and you will Sweep their face in for 8k. In addition to your teammates' ~4k of guard damage, that tank is damn near Dispatch range at this point. That is a 'gg' -- or potential gg at any rate. There are ways to counter.

 

 

I don't have any kind of bias toward one spec or the other... Theres no reason to...

 

Lmao, relax. You don't have to lie. You seem to have a gigantic elitist bent against AOE damage.

 

 

As far as the Transcendence topic, the value of the +30% is how much it really helps OVER the +50% that you already get. In some aspects, it's worth it, in others, the +30% isn't very relevant -- +50% is plenty to do quite a wide variety of things. Thus it's decent but not mandatory or BioWare's gift to the Watchman spec.

 

It's certainly not in any way 'clearly superior' to 90+% Transcendence uptime.

[MBirkhofer]

focus's 100% up time is more valuable in constant fighting, for kiting, etc.

 

While watchmans, coupled with shorted valorous call even, is more useful in between fighting.

Such as start of huttball, getting from one civil war node to another.

 

(a bit of a wash on void star.)

[McDaniels]

Of course they will, of course they will. Naturally, you then pound their unguarded target with Master Strike, Blade Storm, and other pew pew, since they are now taking double damage compared to what they 'should' be taking. Your personal DPS drops by say, 25% since you are holding your Sweep, but your group DPS is only dinged by ~10%. The durability of your target drops by 100% because they no longer have a guard since their tank ran away like a ****.

 

More realistically, their tank will, in fact, maintain guard on that player and you will Sweep their face in for 8k. In addition to your teammates' ~4k of guard damage, that tank is damn near Dispatch range at this point. That is a 'gg' -- or potential gg at any rate. There are ways to counter.

 

 

 

 

Lmao, relax. You don't have to lie. You seem to have a gigantic elitist bent against AOE damage.

 

 

As far as the Transcendence topic, the value of the +30% is how much it really helps OVER the +50% that you already get. In some aspects, it's worth it, in others, the +30% isn't very relevant -- +50% is plenty to do quite a wide variety of things. Thus it's decent but not mandatory or BioWare's gift to the Watchman spec.

 

It's certainly not in any way 'clearly superior' to 90+% Transcendence uptime.

 

So you seem to hold the belief that as long as someone is guarded the guard and the player being guarded must be close enough so that you can hit both with sweep... Wrong...

 

Sweep hits enemies within 5 meters unless the tooltip is wrong, so your assumption would require guard to have a max range of 10 meters since that is the maximum range two players could be away from each other with both being hit by sweep... Unfortunately guard has a max range of 15 meters meaning it is possible, and relatively easy, to guard a player and make it impossible for the sentinel/marauder to hit both of you with sweep, so against a guarded pair of players focus would be worse unless you believe that focus can out dps watchman on a single target.

 

Returning to the transcendence topic, an additional 30% is A LOT and will be huge in ranked warzones, thats a 60% increase of the overall effectiveness of transcendence. You don't think an additional 30% is a massive advantage? For huttball certainly that will be a massive advantage, essentially ensuring possession of the ball first in every match against a team without the talent. Additionally ensuring possession of powerups like the expertise on voidstar... Those kinds of advantages are what wins games at high levels of play. So yes, from a ranked warzone perspective. it is "Clearly superior" to 90% uptime because it gives you a massive advantage at critical points in the game as opposed to a less significant advantage at less critical points in the game.

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels

[Xzenthal]

Dunno, for the past 3 pages of the thread it sounds like you've been touting Watchman's awesome "50% Trans uptime" as a major super important awesome facet of the spec. Now that you've finally realized that Focus has "99% Trans uptime", it's not a big deal.

 

K.

 

 

 

 

You're ignorant because you steadfastly insisted that Watchman has superior uptime on Transcendence.

 

You're doubly ignorant because you don't understand how guard damage works.

 

You're trebly(?) ignorant because you seem to lack an understanding of how to crack hard premades in a game with guard mechanics.

 

 

For the rest ... you mean the 30% bonus on the talent? The talent actually says "YOUR". I suggested that it's a good idea to do a specific test to verify that claim, since the tooltip is ambiguous. I didn't argue either way on the topic of the 'faster' Transcendence. You see, I actually asked first, instead of making preposterous claims like "OMG WATCHMAN HAS MORE TRANSCENDENCE UPTIME THAN FOCUS".

 

But since we're on the subject ... I think the +30% is superfluous once you already have +50%. On the other hand, it's pretty fun and can be effective for specific things, so I consider it solid value, but not 'core'. At the end of the day it's probably a positive tradeoff to drop the bleed/burn damage increase though, but not a significant one.

 

You seem to be highly sensitive with your Watchman fetish. Understand: I never said Focus was better than Watchman. You should pay attention to what people say when you communicate with them, not with what you think they say.

 

 

Then again the tooltip says builds 10 centering when trancendence ends. So for anyone it would actually seem liek a bug if you regain full centering as soon as you used it...I highly doubt that's how they wanted it to be. Iäm not takign anyones side here but you read a tooltip and had your conclusions on how it would work (focused persuit) and then bash on him for doing the same.

 

Anyways I think both trees are equally valid depending on how you play as a person or in a group.

[EasymodeX]

Unfortunately guard has a max range of 15 meters meaning it is possible, and relatively easy, to guard a player and make it impossible for the sentinel/marauder to hit both of you with sweep, so against a guarded pair of players focus would be worse unless you believe that focus can out dps watchman on a single target.

 

Yes, let me know how being out of melee range works for that tank who wishes he had the balls to try and stun / damage / debuff you. Instead of actually using 8/10ths of his abilities, he's just going to /afk at exactly 11-15'.

 

Gotcha.

 

Facepalm.

 

 

Returning to the transcendence topic, an additional 30% is A LOT and will be huge in ranked warzones, thats a 60% increase of the overall effectiveness of transcendence. You don't think an additional 30% is a massive advantage?

 

100% uptime is a 100% increase over 50% uptime. You don't think an additional 100% is a massive advantage?

 

Facepalm.

 

 

Then again the tooltip says builds 10 centering when trancendence ends. So for anyone it would actually seem liek a bug if you regain full centering as soon as you used it...I highly doubt that's how they wanted it to be. Iäm not takign anyones side here but you read a tooltip and had your conclusions on how it would work (focused persuit) and then bash on him for doing the same.

 

1. To clarify since you seem to be missing the crux: he insisted that the Focus talent worked differently than it actually does, despite 3 people telling him otherwise. I simply recommended a verification that the Watchman talent actually buffs the effect for the whole group, making no claim either way on how it functioned.

 

2. It's currently "Working As Intended" per SWTOR CSRs, until they change their minds.

[McDaniels]

Yes, let me know how being out of melee range works for that tank who wishes he had the balls to try and stun / damage / debuff you. Instead of actually using 8/10ths of his abilities, he's just going to /afk at exactly 11-15'.

 

Gotcha.

 

Facepalm.

 

 

 

 

100% uptime is a 100% increase over 50% uptime. You don't think an additional 100% is a massive advantage?

 

Facepalm.

 

 

 

 

1. To clarify since you seem to be missing the crux: he insisted that the Focus talent worked differently than it actually does, despite 3 people telling him otherwise. I simply recommended a verification that the Watchman talent actually buffs the effect for the whole group, making no claim either way on how it functioned.

 

2. It's currently "Working As Intended" per SWTOR CSRs, until they change their minds.

 

Not even going to bother arguing we clearly aren't going to come to an agreement and for some reason you decided to get really hostile and I really don't care enough to deal with that. You can think what you think, I'll stay watchman, and we can see who does better when ranked warzones come out.

Edited January 13, 2012 by McDaniels

[Inlightened]

The class and the abilities are fine, if you know what you are doing then you can over come most issues. the animation issues however are another story, glitches durring rotation can destroy dps, multiple windups for a single attack can kill a player on an elite target, and I think that this is the real issue, people just dont understand the machanics of the class, but there are hundreds of post complaining about the smoothness of the attack animation. I think once this issue is fixed the classes problems will resolve themselves.

[Tsuruchi]

I'm halfway between A and B, and I've played Combat from 10-50 (with a short stop in the mid 40's where I tried Watchman). I have not done any PvP yet, so I can't speak on that.

 

As far as PvE (mostly leveling) goes, I find Combat the superior spec. I don't have to worry about my Merciless buff dropping while I rest between packs of mobs (burn heals aren't going to keep you full through a pull, so I found myself meditating after every pack anyway). I find that Watchman has a few too many buttons to press for my taste, even when I turn my left bar into a shift-click bar. Maybe I'm a casual, but I find that the learning curve and 'ramp-up' time for Combat is more my speed.

 

The important thing to realize is that I said "my taste". If you like Watchman or Focus and it works better for you, then go for it. I would suggest everybody try each spec to get a real feel for how it plays out for you. I plan to give Watchman another chance now that I'm 50 and struggling with huge groups of angry droids on Corellia.

[ErisktheRed]

The class and the abilities are fine, if you know what you are doing then you can over come most issues. the animation issues however are another story, glitches durring rotation can destroy dps, multiple windups for a single attack can kill a player on an elite target, and I think that this is the real issue, people just dont understand the machanics of the class, but there are hundreds of post complaining about the smoothness of the attack animation. I think once this issue is fixed the classes problems will resolve themselves.

 

I think once this is solved, it'll be small tweaks to really balance Sent out and those have been discussed, like stun break, another CC, opp/pomm strike merged or more useful/able used PvP/bosses, offhand dmg boost, but not major changes needed like some ppl drone about - and again, big difference between PVE and PvP. Many ppl may not pay attention to the delay, it's more noticeable in certain attacks like Master Strike. It really hurt me later on, it's easy to lose attention and think it's YOUR lag/connection.