Jedi Shadow Balance- horrible

[jahjitsu]

So I am only level 47 and I've played Balance for a couple of hours last night. My impressions, horrible. I did both PvE and PvP. PvE wasn't AS bad as PvP, but still didn't impress me.

 

The main problem from Balance is that the DoT damage doesn't seem to scale properly. Maybe it's my gear (My gear favors crit rather than Power) but most of the dots only hit for about 150ish. This isn't impressive knowing that all our dots don't last that long (I would think the short the DoT, the more damage it would do). Here are three major issues I have with Balance:

 

- Force in Balance is a great skill at first, but the follow up skill Force Suppression is broken. The skill increases damage from your next 10 periodic damage abilities by 20%. Great increase in damage, but it doesn't seem to increase actual DoT damage but the direct damage inflicted before the DoT is applied. Why do I think this? Well, the follow up talent to Suppression, Sharpened Mind, says 'Consuming ONE Force Suppression charge restores 1/2 Focus." I noticed whenever my actual DoT did damage, the charge never decreased; only when direct damage, for example from Mind Crush or Telekinetic Throw (The first hit only) would use a charge. If this is the case, this is stupid since it only affects the first hit of Mind Crush and the first hit of Telekinetic Throw.

 

- We have 3 abilities with DoTs; Mind Crush, Force Breach, and Sever Force (I don't include Telekinetic Throw cause it's a Channel Spell). None of these do impressive damage at all. In PvP, it's even worse. I thought since PvP is scaled the DoTs would do more damage, but nope. It only does around 200 a tick, not nearly enough to outweigh the burst from Infilitration.

 

- Force Strike, which gives a 33% chance on a melee critical hit to make our Mind Crush free and instant, is balanced, but like I Said above the damage of Mind Crush is not great. Combined with the semi-low proc rate of Force Strike and the low damage of Mind Crush, it's a slap in the face.

 

Now I know I am not lvl 50 and probably not optimized to be Balance, but this is just my experience so far. I am not expecting the DoTs to do a crap load of damage, but I do know that the damage output is low. Infiltration is all about burst, and I thought Balance would be all about outlasting your opponent, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I hope Bioware takes another look at Balance =/

[TheJackalistaken]

Personally I like balance. Comparatively to other shadow specs our burst damage is extremely low, and if you approach balance like either of the other two shadow specs then it won't work very well, especially in PvP. In PvP you are mainly a pressure player, you don't have to pure burst to take people down as quickly as infiltration but you have the ability but our dots are pretty nasty and you also have more utility and more durability than infiltration shadows. We also have the ability to effectively dance between 4-10 meters. I'm not really an expert but I feel balance is not only a decent spec but also a fun one, and if it is played correctly you can really do work in PvP. This is just my 2 cents on the matter, I am by no means an expert. If you are having trouble with the spec I would recommend reading the sticky on balance, it helped me a lot.

[MithrilSoul]

You say the damage isn't impressive, and I will take your word on it, Mind Crush is the single most powerful damaging attack Shadows have, when you take into account the initial direct damage plus the DoT that ticks after it. To be able to get that for 0 Force Points is even better.

 

If you are looking at Mind Crush, don't forget that about 40% of its total damage is delivered instantly on cast; the DoT portion is only a little over half the total.

 

Now once you start throwing in talent modifcations to certain skills, that claim about Mind Crush changes. Project can be a beast if you have the talents in both the Kinetic Combat and Balance trees to buff it up and you have a Particle Acceleration procced. And so forth. I admit I don't know Infiltration tree very well at all, but I am sure there are talents in there that substantially buff certain attack skills that otherwise are so-so.

 

I agree FiB is not overwhelming, but it is 3-target and it is usable at 30m. I think those two utility factors make up for the fact that it's damage is not blow-you-out-of-the-water powerful. The usefulness of an AoE from 30m (for relatively low Force cost) in PvP should be obvious. PvE its utility is maybe less significant, except for those running a hybrid KC/Balance tank build and using it to pick up adds at range.

 

Sever Force has always *seemed* to me, on paper at least, to be pretty weak for a capstone skill. I certainly think that of the 3 Shadow capstones, this is the one that needs the most love. But perhaps I'm missing something.

Edited January 9, 2012 by MithrilSoul

[jahjitsu]

You say the damage isn't impressive, and I will take your word on it, Mind Crush is the single most powerful damaging attack Shadows have, when you take into account the initial direct damage plus the DoT that ticks after it. To be able to get that for 0 Force Points is even better.

 

If you are looking at Mind Crush, don't forget that about 40% of its total damage is delivered instantly on cast; the DoT portion is only a little over half the total.

 

Now once you start throwing in talent modifcations to certain skills, that claim about Mind Crush changes. Project can be a beast if you have the talents in both the Kinetic Combat and Balance trees to buff it up and you have a Particle Acceleration procced. And so forth. I admit I don't know Infiltration tree very well at all, but I am sure there are talents in there that substantially buff certain attack skills that otherwise are so-so.

 

I agree FiB is not overwhelming, but it is 3-target and it is usable at 30m. I think those two utility factors make up for the fact that it's damage is not blow-you-out-of-the-water powerful. The usefulness of an AoE from 30m (for relatively low Force cost) in PvP should be obvious. PvE its utility is maybe less significant, except for those running a hybrid KC/Balance tank build and using it to pick up adds at range.

 

Sever Force has always *seemed* to me, on paper at least, to be pretty weak for a capstone skill. I certainly think that of the 3 Shadow capstones, this is the one that needs the most love. But perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I don't have a problem with Project since it is a great spell, and Balance didn't have any Force regen issues for me when I was playing it. I just still felt like the DoT damage didn't make up for my respec. Mind Crush's instant damage is great like I said, but the problem lies within Force Suppression's talent; it only seems to increase the instant damage and not the actual DoTs. I hate to bring up WoW, but a great mechanic they have (which took a while to implement iirc) was that bonus spell damage would automatically apply to existing DoTs, and newly applied DoTs, on the enemy. This would be fantastic for Balance.

[bigray]

people use mind crush?

[oddmyth]

people use mind crush?

 

Time to read what's going on in the Balance tree.

[trakata]

Mind crush is great specifically for Balance tree. The Force Strike talent makes a proc on critical hits which gives you a free (no activation time, no force cost) Mind crush. I've been toying with Balance for the last five levels (I'm lvl 36) and it's been quite fun, especially with having effective utility range from 0-30m.

[Neodeity]

people use mind crush?

 

Inf. Specced shadows don't use this, but the others do if they talent specc it to an instant.

 

 

 

I tried playing balanced for a day, and went back to infiltrator. I just like harassing healers.

 

However, the way that PvP XP and Commendations work, guarding someone gives me almost 40% more, so I am always in Combat stance. This of course, gimps my infiltrator specc substantially but I can still out DPS the balance specc and I just enjoy the gameplay a bit more. Balance to me seems like a jack of all trades, master of none method.

[Hydurz]

You say balance doesnt have burst…your wrong

 

 

Balance has pressure ALOT

 

 

 

After getting some epic pvp gear at 50 (champ gear only) only rank 41 atm

 

 

 

 

 

 

With CDs (force potency+ crit modifying trinket) i can burst 6k in roughly 2GCDs thats

1.5secs x2 = 6k dmg

 

 

 

Start off with project =2kish WHILE rocks are in the air I Use FiB which can crit up to 3kish

 

 

This is with NO DoTS i havent even applied sever force, Force breach, Insta Mindcrush

 

Yeah my Dots can crit for 700-1000 (mindcrush/Force Breach even sever force

 

 

the only DoT that doesnt hit hard is sever force because its a ROOT

[Hydurz]

I have played Inf. Kin.

 

Inf offers ALOT of burst but you cant last forever… who wants a minuteman

 

 

 

Kin sure you wont die and you will save your healers…. Noone wants a wet noodle

 

 

 

 

Balance sure i can kite juggys and mar. with sever force (THat does NOT give CC immunity)…. Who wants a Semi Ranged DPS/ Melee anyway

[Selestian]

people use mind crush?

 

I don't but then some people spec high enough in balance to get the insta-cast version.

[Okru_Tolo]

Server: Juyo

Class: Shadow

Spec: Balance

Level: 50

Valor: 45

Gear: All champion gear except for 3 centurion pieces

Raids: One Eternity Vault Run

 

I have played a balanced shadow since 10 and have loved every minute of it. It has been very beneficial in both PvP and PvE to be able to have some breathing room in how close you are to the enemy. You are able to fight up close with the melee classes and mid way through the fight, throw them off and kite with the snare. I found that I have been most effective in group pvp, especially the warzones with my tab dotting. This has been amazing in preventing the imperials from capping nodes, planting/diffusing bombs.

 

Rough rotation (still playing around with it)

 

Force in Balance - use this as soon as you come within 30m

Project - As you are running towards the enemy throw this at him. For me it procs the 10% melee bonus damage.

Pop the 2 long dots

Force in balance again - If you have the points which make the dots do more damage.

Double Strike

 

Whenever a dot is available, use it. If you have enough force to pop a FiB in there while the dots are active more power to you. I wrote this up in about 10 minutes because I want to get back on but my main point to this is that yes, a Balanced Shadow is NOT horrible.

[jahjitsu]

You say balance doesnt have burst…your wrong

 

 

Balance has pressure ALOT

 

 

 

After getting some epic pvp gear at 50 (champ gear only) only rank 41 atm

 

 

 

 

 

 

With CDs (force potency+ crit modifying trinket) i can burst 6k in roughly 2GCDs thats

1.5secs x2 = 6k dmg

 

 

 

Start off with project =2kish WHILE rocks are in the air I Use FiB which can crit up to 3kish

 

 

This is with NO DoTS i havent even applied sever force, Force breach, Insta Mindcrush

 

Yeah my Dots can crit for 700-1000 (mindcrush/Force Breach even sever force

 

 

the only DoT that doesnt hit hard is sever force because its a ROOT

 

Every class can burst with trinkets and damage increasing skills. Also, Infiltration can burst with trinkets + Force Potency and Project/5 Stacks of Force Breach.

 

I haven't disregarded Balance as a whole yet since I am not optimized for that spec, but to me Balance doesn't seem to compete well with Infiltration.

[TaishoD]

Hmm ... one of these days, maybe I should try Infiltration to try out the other side of the fence, but right now, as a Balance shadow, I'm enjoying myself a LOT.

 

Regarding your statement about Force Suppression, I find that very odd, as I've definitely noticed the charge counter going down as my DoTs ticked. Noticed the increase in damage as well.

 

Regarding the DoT tick damage, true, Force Breach doesn't really tick for much, but it does so for quite a while especially if you've put in talents in Technique Mastery. Helps when you're defending objectives in WZs. Mind Crush though is a different beast altogether ... or maybe it just feels that way since it deals its damage in a third less the time.

 

It may just be that I'm stacking more crit / surge items (gotta love crafted purples ), but I find my ticks critting more often, and I've seen DoT ticks of 500 or so damage. Not sure if that was from force breach or mind crush.

 

Sever Force ... I think you have to take a look at it more from just a DPS standpoint. You have to consider that it has 30m range AND roots the target for 2 seconds. That's a 2 second root (does not affect resolve bar) on just a 9 sec cooldown. It's quite the tactical tool, I think. Great for stopping ball carriers in fire pits even with their resolve bar full, or stopping a cap when FiB is on cooldown.

Edited January 10, 2012 by TaishoD

[DjArioch]

Played around with a full Balance spec and playing the Upheavel Kinetic hybrid now.

 

One thing that I didn't know and think is way OP, dots that continue to tick will interrupt capping in pvp. That alone makes Balance really nice

[TaishoD]

Played around with a full Balance spec and playing the Upheavel Kinetic hybrid now.

 

One thing that I didn't know and think is way OP, dots that continue to tick will interrupt capping in pvp. That alone makes Balance really nice

 

Yeah. If you don't get insta gibbed, that's an extra 18 seconds (21, if you've put in talents in Technique Mastery) that they won't cap due to the DoT Force Breach. Sever Force has an 18s duration too.

[Solemio]

So I am only level 47 and I've played Balance for a couple of hours last night. My impressions, horrible. I did both PvE and PvP. PvE wasn't AS bad as PvP, but still didn't impress me.

 

The main problem from Balance is that the DoT damage doesn't seem to scale properly. Maybe it's my gear (My gear favors crit rather than Power) but most of the dots only hit for about 150ish. This isn't impressive knowing that all our dots don't last that long (I would think the short the DoT, the more damage it would do). Here are three major issues I have with Balance:

 

- Force in Balance is a great skill at first, but the follow up skill Force Suppression is broken. The skill increases damage from your next 10 periodic damage abilities by 20%. Great increase in damage, but it doesn't seem to increase actual DoT damage but the direct damage inflicted before the DoT is applied. Why do I think this? Well, the follow up talent to Suppression, Sharpened Mind, says 'Consuming ONE Force Suppression charge restores 1/2 Focus." I noticed whenever my actual DoT did damage, the charge never decreased; only when direct damage, for example from Mind Crush or Telekinetic Throw (The first hit only) would use a charge. If this is the case, this is stupid since it only affects the first hit of Mind Crush and the first hit of Telekinetic Throw.

 

- We have 3 abilities with DoTs; Mind Crush, Force Breach, and Sever Force (I don't include Telekinetic Throw cause it's a Channel Spell). None of these do impressive damage at all. In PvP, it's even worse. I thought since PvP is scaled the DoTs would do more damage, but nope. It only does around 200 a tick, not nearly enough to outweigh the burst from Infilitration.

 

- Force Strike, which gives a 33% chance on a melee critical hit to make our Mind Crush free and instant, is balanced, but like I Said above the damage of Mind Crush is not great. Combined with the semi-low proc rate of Force Strike and the low damage of Mind Crush, it's a slap in the face.

 

Now I know I am not lvl 50 and probably not optimized to be Balance, but this is just my experience so far. I am not expecting the DoTs to do a crap load of damage, but I do know that the damage output is low. Infiltration is all about burst, and I thought Balance would be all about outlasting your opponent, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I hope Bioware takes another look at Balance =/

 

 

I don't even know where to start on this...

 

Guess I'll just start with: Read.

 

Read the posts about balance. Read the posts about madness assassins. Understand that yes, you can EASILY hit the top of the damage/prot/healing charts (at the same time mind you) with balance shadows... but its about way more than that.

 

Im not going to get into how you can use combat stance in PVP and gaurd a healer/use your taunts/resil/deflect to mitigate damage and get a huge defence score...

 

That being said. Lets talk about DoTs and how dots are good in PVP.

 

Going to cap a turret? Not with a dot on you that ticks for 12s (Sever force)

 

Lets say you have west turret and 100 hp. Full HP sage is coming to cap and you know your dead.

Sever force. Hey look, you now have enough time to die, rez, rebuff and take a speeder back to the turret while he sits there trying to cap with a dot on him. lolwat.

 

Thats one dot. You have 3. This enables you to efficently lock down any sort of interact node against multiple targets AFTER YOUR DEAD.

 

Now lets talk about how dot crits heal you for 1% of your max health (+20% of that) (after talents)

 

This is just my personal experience. But in 2 pieces of champ gear. That heal is about 400 or so. Per tick that crits...

 

Now I cant test right now, but heres some estimates. This assumes 1 tick per 2 seconds.

 

Mind crush: 3 Ticks

Sever force: 9 Ticks

Force Breach: 9 Ticks

 

So thats 21 chances for your dots to crit.

 

Lets say you get really lucky and you have similar gear to me. Every one of your dots crits:

 

21 X 400 = 8400 healed. Hey look. You just almost doubled your health pool. Good job.

 

Now. Thats just on one target.. lets think about how you can proc insta-cast mind crush. And how breach and sever last longer than the cool down.

 

You can dot up LOTS of targets. And in return heal LOTS of health.

 

At this point i just want to say this isnt a guide. Im not going to give you some cookie cutter rotation to tell you how to **** every pvp encounter you face. Its not there. Its fluid. It depends on how many your up agains, and what classes and what they are trying to do. I'm just pointing out why I think balance is amazing. And I rolled kinetic for tanking FPs/PVP and swapped to infil just to try it out. And i liked both, dont get me wrong. They are fun. Kinetic is especially amazing at PVP because of how hard they are to kill while still maintaing high dps for a tank. Infil just felt very "Heres a rotation, theres a little bit you can do to change it, but you more or less have to stick to it, and you have to go for squishy targets" I think every spec has its place. But i felt very easily kiteable as infil. And kinetic just made me long to see more numbers.

 

So yeah... /rant.

 

I guess next I'll talk about FIB.

 

FIB is great. 10 stacks on 3 targets that cause each TICK of damage to hit 20% harder. Not to mention not only can it crit on each target (for me the crits are around 3-3.5k right now per target) it can also crit HEAL you. Those crit heals are around 200 or so. Not huge. But thats another potential 600 hp every 15s or so. Over the course of a WZ; it adds up.

 

Just to answer your question: Telekenetic throw does not count as a dot. However, each tick of all your dots does. Cast sever force on someone with FIB on them youll notice that it goes from 1760 or so damage per tick (again, not sure 100% on this but assuming 1 tick per 2 seconds, skill says it does 5295 damage base/ 3 ticks (although this number seems high and it might have 1tick/sec which would mean MORE chances to heal that % of your max hp)) up 20% to 2112 (yeah thats way high... its probably 1tick/sec) which would bring that damage down but you get the idea. It increases every tick of every dot (whether or not this includes the initial cast damage i am unsure) by 20%

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9TTacqt/mind-crush

 

I dont know why your saying your mind crush is weak. Mine hits like a truck. I think you might mean breach and sever? They only feel low because of how long the dots last and how many ticks they have. Get all 3 up on a target with FIB and just sit there.. check how much damage it does for 4 GCDs worth of casting, not to mention all the damage you can do while they are ticking...

 

Now i guess I should point out that everything I have been saying is just about dots and FIB interaction. YOU ARE NOT LIMITED TO JUST SITTING THERE WAITING FOR CDs TO DOT TARGETS/FIB! I can not stress how important it is that you are doing SOMETHING every GCD. See someone running away from a friend? Slow them. Throw a rock at their healer (that also boosts your melee damage). Run into the middle and spin, execute someone, hell use saber strike if your oof and someone is in range. Something should be used every GCD. This is important.

 

 

Another note: This is a hybrid class. Dance around at the 10m mark. FIB, dot em up, throw a rock and then get in there and do some damage while your dots tick away. You are capable of a TON of damage over a very short ammount of time if you keep up the pressure on multiple targets.

 

Now as a final note. I want to talk about kiting and CC.

 

As a balance shadow you have 5 CCs. That are all on relatively short CDs.

 

-Force Slow (slowing is still a form of controll, got an assasin/infiltrator on you? slow them and force run away.. you can dot/project from safely out of range while they struggle to get you, not to mention when this crits... it hurts. It does a TON of damage for a CC ability this skill is also UNAFECTED BY RESOLVE. Thats right, they can have a full damn bar and everyone else is wasting CC on them but not you. You still slow them down.)

 

-Sever force (pesky ranged keeping you away? sever them to the ground and run into your sweet spot, 10m or so. Ball carrier about to score in hutball? Not if you root them to the ground.. which brings us to...

 

-Force wave (amazing CC. knock back everyone in an area? potentially off of ledges? SWEET! This combos very well with sever force. Wait for them to get right where they are most vulnerable and root them, then take your time, walk up, and punt them off the edge)

 

-Force lift (as balance this is instant cast and adds 2s of stun if it is broken early (and thats 9s of stun if you break it yourself at 7s with one of your opening skills) this is great for locking down a healer in a big battle, stopping the ball in hutt ball, protecting a node in alderan, this CC is so versatile its amazing)

 

-Force stun (standard 4s stun with some moderate damage, this stun is your bread and butter)

 

THATS SO MUCH CC BRAH.

 

Also like I said, im in only 2 pieces of PVP gear and im CONSISTENTLY above 190k damage. Its hard to run away from me. Its easy for me to get away. I can lock down nodes. I damage multiple targets consistently while healing myself and protecting allies. I can kite melee, close the gap on ranged, and generally bounce around that sweet spot.

 

 

All i have to say: l2p.

[Hydurz]

ionno at 50 Balance takes off

 

 

I specced balance while leveling and it didnt hold a candle to kinetic lvling

 

 

 

ENDGAME BALANCE ROCKS- PVE AND PVP

[Berlik]

i heard a rumor that shadow tank is broken.

[Steelbros]

I don't even know where to start on this...

 

Guess I'll just start with: Read.

 

Read the posts about balance. Read the posts about madness assassins. Understand that yes, you can EASILY hit the top of the damage/prot/healing charts (at the same time mind you) with balance shadows... but its about way more than that.

 

Im not going to get into how you can use combat stance in PVP and gaurd a healer/use your taunts/resil/deflect to mitigate damage and get a huge defence score...

 

That being said. Lets talk about DoTs and how dots are good in PVP.

 

Going to cap a turret? Not with a dot on you that ticks for 12s (Sever force)

 

Lets say you have west turret and 100 hp. Full HP sage is coming to cap and you know your dead.

Sever force. Hey look, you now have enough time to die, rez, rebuff and take a speeder back to the turret while he sits there trying to cap with a dot on him. lolwat.

 

Thats one dot. You have 3. This enables you to efficently lock down any sort of interact node against multiple targets AFTER YOUR DEAD.

 

Now lets talk about how dot crits heal you for 1% of your max health (+20% of that) (after talents)

 

This is just my personal experience. But in 2 pieces of champ gear. That heal is about 400 or so. Per tick that crits...

 

Now I cant test right now, but heres some estimates. This assumes 1 tick per 2 seconds.

 

Mind crush: 3 Ticks

Sever force: 9 Ticks

Force Breach: 9 Ticks

 

So thats 21 chances for your dots to crit.

 

Lets say you get really lucky and you have similar gear to me. Every one of your dots crits:

 

21 X 400 = 8400 healed. Hey look. You just almost doubled your health pool. Good job.

 

Now. Thats just on one target.. lets think about how you can proc insta-cast mind crush. And how breach and sever last longer than the cool down.

 

You can dot up LOTS of targets. And in return heal LOTS of health.

 

At this point i just want to say this isnt a guide. Im not going to give you some cookie cutter rotation to tell you how to **** every pvp encounter you face. Its not there. Its fluid. It depends on how many your up agains, and what classes and what they are trying to do. I'm just pointing out why I think balance is amazing. And I rolled kinetic for tanking FPs/PVP and swapped to infil just to try it out. And i liked both, dont get me wrong. They are fun. Kinetic is especially amazing at PVP because of how hard they are to kill while still maintaing high dps for a tank. Infil just felt very "Heres a rotation, theres a little bit you can do to change it, but you more or less have to stick to it, and you have to go for squishy targets" I think every spec has its place. But i felt very easily kiteable as infil. And kinetic just made me long to see more numbers.

 

So yeah... /rant.

 

I guess next I'll talk about FIB.

 

FIB is great. 10 stacks on 3 targets that cause each TICK of damage to hit 20% harder. Not to mention not only can it crit on each target (for me the crits are around 3-3.5k right now per target) it can also crit HEAL you. Those crit heals are around 200 or so. Not huge. But thats another potential 600 hp every 15s or so. Over the course of a WZ; it adds up.

 

Just to answer your question: Telekenetic throw does not count as a dot. However, each tick of all your dots does. Cast sever force on someone with FIB on them youll notice that it goes from 1760 or so damage per tick (again, not sure 100% on this but assuming 1 tick per 2 seconds, skill says it does 5295 damage base/ 3 ticks (although this number seems high and it might have 1tick/sec which would mean MORE chances to heal that % of your max hp)) up 20% to 2112 (yeah thats way high... its probably 1tick/sec) which would bring that damage down but you get the idea. It increases every tick of every dot (whether or not this includes the initial cast damage i am unsure) by 20%

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9TTacqt/mind-crush

 

I dont know why your saying your mind crush is weak. Mine hits like a truck. I think you might mean breach and sever? They only feel low because of how long the dots last and how many ticks they have. Get all 3 up on a target with FIB and just sit there.. check how much damage it does for 4 GCDs worth of casting, not to mention all the damage you can do while they are ticking...

 

Now i guess I should point out that everything I have been saying is just about dots and FIB interaction. YOU ARE NOT LIMITED TO JUST SITTING THERE WAITING FOR CDs TO DOT TARGETS/FIB! I can not stress how important it is that you are doing SOMETHING every GCD. See someone running away from a friend? Slow them. Throw a rock at their healer (that also boosts your melee damage). Run into the middle and spin, execute someone, hell use saber strike if your oof and someone is in range. Something should be used every GCD. This is important.

 

 

Another note: This is a hybrid class. Dance around at the 10m mark. FIB, dot em up, throw a rock and then get in there and do some damage while your dots tick away. You are capable of a TON of damage over a very short ammount of time if you keep up the pressure on multiple targets.

 

Now as a final note. I want to talk about kiting and CC.

 

As a balance shadow you have 5 CCs. That are all on relatively short CDs.

 

-Force Slow (slowing is still a form of controll, got an assasin/infiltrator on you? slow them and force run away.. you can dot/project from safely out of range while they struggle to get you, not to mention when this crits... it hurts. It does a TON of damage for a CC ability this skill is also UNAFECTED BY RESOLVE. Thats right, they can have a full damn bar and everyone else is wasting CC on them but not you. You still slow them down.)

 

-Sever force (pesky ranged keeping you away? sever them to the ground and run into your sweet spot, 10m or so. Ball carrier about to score in hutball? Not if you root them to the ground.. which brings us to...

 

-Force wave (amazing CC. knock back everyone in an area? potentially off of ledges? SWEET! This combos very well with sever force. Wait for them to get right where they are most vulnerable and root them, then take your time, walk up, and punt them off the edge)

 

-Force lift (as balance this is instant cast and adds 2s of stun if it is broken early (and thats 9s of stun if you break it yourself at 7s with one of your opening skills) this is great for locking down a healer in a big battle, stopping the ball in hutt ball, protecting a node in alderan, this CC is so versatile its amazing)

 

-Force stun (standard 4s stun with some moderate damage, this stun is your bread and butter)

 

THATS SO MUCH CC BRAH.

 

Also like I said, im in only 2 pieces of PVP gear and im CONSISTENTLY above 190k damage. Its hard to run away from me. Its easy for me to get away. I can lock down nodes. I damage multiple targets consistently while healing myself and protecting allies. I can kite melee, close the gap on ranged, and generally bounce around that sweet spot.

 

 

All i have to say: l2p.

 

Well, bro... U forgot 1 more CC.. Spining kick which is used from stealth. U can force stealth and knock down a guys for 2s more with it. With this amount of cc combined with dots u can stop even a highly over geared enemy. Just dance around them.

Don't forget to use combat stance in pvp - it also heals u. Using force breach in this stance dots several targets.

 

Great post anyways. That's how I play balance 2.

 

PS. Didn't see infiltrator I couldn't take out.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Steelbros

[Rotm]

Whats the point of balance shadow over a same spec sage. The only melee attack you have is weak double strike.

[Grometsc]

Well, bro... U forgot 1 more CC.. Spining kick which is used from stealth. U can force stealth and knock down a guys for 2s more with it. With this amount of cc combined with dots u can stop even a highly over geared enemy. Just dance around them.

Don't forget to use combat stance in pvp - it also heals u. Using force breach in this stance dots several targets.

 

Great post anyways. That's how I play balance 2.

 

PS. Didn't see infiltrator I couldn't take out.

 

Force Breach while in CT is an internal aoe dd dmg, not a dot (I only use breach when its more then 2 players, then its useful use of my force).

 

I use CT, I find FT completely worthless, even down to the extra dot atm. Maybe revisit when I have more haste, but it should be re-worked similar to mind crush with 40% dmg up front, then a 9sec dot. Personally I think all dots should be 9secs, but I just LOVE server force I would hate to see it changed, its so useful for the 2 sec root that doesnt break on DMG, most players dont understand they are not stunned

Edited January 21, 2012 by Grometsc

[Grometsc]

Whats the point of balance shadow over a same spec sage. The only melee attack you have is weak double strike.

 

Actually balance DS spam hits harder then any other anytime melee attack we have. If you look at it like that, why go infiltration, they only have CS (which just replaces DS and does less then balance DS spam) and SS (which balance has as well)

[Istvar]

I don't even know where to start on this...

 

Guess I'll just start with: Read.

 

Read the posts about balance. Read the posts about madness assassins. Understand that yes, you can EASILY hit the top of the damage/prot/healing charts (at the same time mind you) with balance shadows... but its about way more than that.

 

Im not going to get into how you can use combat stance in PVP and gaurd a healer/use your taunts/resil/deflect to mitigate damage and get a huge defence score...

 

That being said. Lets talk about DoTs and how dots are good in PVP.

 

Going to cap a turret? Not with a dot on you that ticks for 12s (Sever force)

 

Lets say you have west turret and 100 hp. Full HP sage is coming to cap and you know your dead.

Sever force. Hey look, you now have enough time to die, rez, rebuff and take a speeder back to the turret while he sits there trying to cap with a dot on him. lolwat.

 

Thats one dot. You have 3. This enables you to efficently lock down any sort of interact node against multiple targets AFTER YOUR DEAD.

 

Now lets talk about how dot crits heal you for 1% of your max health (+20% of that) (after talents)

 

This is just my personal experience. But in 2 pieces of champ gear. That heal is about 400 or so. Per tick that crits...

 

Now I cant test right now, but heres some estimates. This assumes 1 tick per 2 seconds.

 

Mind crush: 3 Ticks

Sever force: 9 Ticks

Force Breach: 9 Ticks

 

So thats 21 chances for your dots to crit.

 

Lets say you get really lucky and you have similar gear to me. Every one of your dots crits:

 

21 X 400 = 8400 healed. Hey look. You just almost doubled your health pool. Good job.

 

Now. Thats just on one target.. lets think about how you can proc insta-cast mind crush. And how breach and sever last longer than the cool down.

 

You can dot up LOTS of targets. And in return heal LOTS of health.

 

At this point i just want to say this isnt a guide. Im not going to give you some cookie cutter rotation to tell you how to **** every pvp encounter you face. Its not there. Its fluid. It depends on how many your up agains, and what classes and what they are trying to do. I'm just pointing out why I think balance is amazing. And I rolled kinetic for tanking FPs/PVP and swapped to infil just to try it out. And i liked both, dont get me wrong. They are fun. Kinetic is especially amazing at PVP because of how hard they are to kill while still maintaing high dps for a tank. Infil just felt very "Heres a rotation, theres a little bit you can do to change it, but you more or less have to stick to it, and you have to go for squishy targets" I think every spec has its place. But i felt very easily kiteable as infil. And kinetic just made me long to see more numbers.

 

So yeah... /rant.

 

I guess next I'll talk about FIB.

 

FIB is great. 10 stacks on 3 targets that cause each TICK of damage to hit 20% harder. Not to mention not only can it crit on each target (for me the crits are around 3-3.5k right now per target) it can also crit HEAL you. Those crit heals are around 200 or so. Not huge. But thats another potential 600 hp every 15s or so. Over the course of a WZ; it adds up.

 

Just to answer your question: Telekenetic throw does not count as a dot. However, each tick of all your dots does. Cast sever force on someone with FIB on them youll notice that it goes from 1760 or so damage per tick (again, not sure 100% on this but assuming 1 tick per 2 seconds, skill says it does 5295 damage base/ 3 ticks (although this number seems high and it might have 1tick/sec which would mean MORE chances to heal that % of your max hp)) up 20% to 2112 (yeah thats way high... its probably 1tick/sec) which would bring that damage down but you get the idea. It increases every tick of every dot (whether or not this includes the initial cast damage i am unsure) by 20%

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9TTacqt/mind-crush

 

I dont know why your saying your mind crush is weak. Mine hits like a truck. I think you might mean breach and sever? They only feel low because of how long the dots last and how many ticks they have. Get all 3 up on a target with FIB and just sit there.. check how much damage it does for 4 GCDs worth of casting, not to mention all the damage you can do while they are ticking...

 

Now i guess I should point out that everything I have been saying is just about dots and FIB interaction. YOU ARE NOT LIMITED TO JUST SITTING THERE WAITING FOR CDs TO DOT TARGETS/FIB! I can not stress how important it is that you are doing SOMETHING every GCD. See someone running away from a friend? Slow them. Throw a rock at their healer (that also boosts your melee damage). Run into the middle and spin, execute someone, hell use saber strike if your oof and someone is in range. Something should be used every GCD. This is important.

 

 

Another note: This is a hybrid class. Dance around at the 10m mark. FIB, dot em up, throw a rock and then get in there and do some damage while your dots tick away. You are capable of a TON of damage over a very short ammount of time if you keep up the pressure on multiple targets.

 

Now as a final note. I want to talk about kiting and CC.

 

As a balance shadow you have 5 CCs. That are all on relatively short CDs.

 

-Force Slow (slowing is still a form of controll, got an assasin/infiltrator on you? slow them and force run away.. you can dot/project from safely out of range while they struggle to get you, not to mention when this crits... it hurts. It does a TON of damage for a CC ability this skill is also UNAFECTED BY RESOLVE. Thats right, they can have a full damn bar and everyone else is wasting CC on them but not you. You still slow them down.)

 

-Sever force (pesky ranged keeping you away? sever them to the ground and run into your sweet spot, 10m or so. Ball carrier about to score in hutball? Not if you root them to the ground.. which brings us to...

 

-Force wave (amazing CC. knock back everyone in an area? potentially off of ledges? SWEET! This combos very well with sever force. Wait for them to get right where they are most vulnerable and root them, then take your time, walk up, and punt them off the edge)

 

-Force lift (as balance this is instant cast and adds 2s of stun if it is broken early (and thats 9s of stun if you break it yourself at 7s with one of your opening skills) this is great for locking down a healer in a big battle, stopping the ball in hutt ball, protecting a node in alderan, this CC is so versatile its amazing)

 

-Force stun (standard 4s stun with some moderate damage, this stun is your bread and butter)

 

THATS SO MUCH CC BRAH.

 

Also like I said, im in only 2 pieces of PVP gear and im CONSISTENTLY above 190k damage. Its hard to run away from me. Its easy for me to get away. I can lock down nodes. I damage multiple targets consistently while healing myself and protecting allies. I can kite melee, close the gap on ranged, and generally bounce around that sweet spot.

 

 

All i have to say: l2p.

 

 

so you are saying 400 hps equals 1.2% of your max hps? pls tell me how you manage to get 33k hitpoints 0_o

[Grometsc]

so you are saying 400 hps equals 1.2% of your max hps? pls tell me how you manage to get 33k hitpoints 0_o

 

I even think the 20% buff is bugged

 

My critical heals are 101

 

My health is 10k

 

It should heal around 120 per critical