Purlana Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Exactly, they provide an advantage...an advantage you don't need. Want to make your life a little easier? Then you have to work for it (aka, get Biochem and spend the money to upgrade it). If you don't want to work, you don't get the advantage. Benefits should not just be given freely to players. Make a choice and live with it. Each crafting skill has their benefit and each one has weaknesses. Pick a choice, then live with it. What advantage does armortech provide in end game...? None >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainsec Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Biochem is very OP in PvP and anyone who says it's not is either incapable of seeing how having the rakata level reusables favor Biochem over all others or doesn't want anything to happen to their stuff. In PvE it's fine who cares your only competing against mobs it's more about finding the the way the boss fight works and less about your crafting. Seriously in PvP something needs to be done about biochem crafters. Those who have the rakata reusable have access to the most powerful buffs through stims, a medpack that will restore around 35-50% of their life every 90 secs that apparently does not share a cd with the heal consumable, and another far more powerful relic slot from adrenals. All things being equal between two players gear and skillwise except that one player is a biochem crafter and the other is not the biochem crafter will win every single time. That is how you know something is OP when not using that crew skill puts you at a disadvantage. Problem is how do you fix that problem without making it a useless skill. Easy and lazy solution is just to make non-pvp reusables not work in PvP but I think that is overly punitive, a better solution would be to give every craft some perks of similar level and make medpacks and heal consumables have the same cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryManJC Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is untrue. The purple BOP re-usables (non rakata) are the same as the blue ones you RE'ed to get em. This is not true. The blue medpacs that you RE to get the purple ones have a HOT component that the purple version does not get. As a Bio myself, I would not be opposed to changing the purple versions of these items so that they can be made available to the general player base. It would be in line with the fact that the other crafting professions can sell their purple items to players. I think the real issue here and one that would help players in general is that a crafting profession that makes consumables only crafts one item per attempt. This to me is plain silly. Players in general would love to have all of these items available to them at an affordable price to help bolster their survivability but Bio's can not provide the numbers needed because they only craft one med or stim per craft generally. For example, let's say it takes 2 minutes to craft 1 medpac and we are going to craft 10 medpacs for player x to use during a rather tough instance. This means 20 minutes of crafting to outfit 1 player out of 4 for just 1 trip through an instance. The logistics of this means that most players will not get access to all of our items at reasonable costs or at all. Basically, at this time, I am only crafting stims and medpacs for guildmates because I do not have the time to make any for the general player base because of how this skill is set up. Make it so purple versions are available to the player base or make it so we craft small stacks of our reusables (4) with each attempt. Just my two cents here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadTidian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 What advantage does armortech provide in end game...? None >.< It provides an advantage getting to end game. You generally are able to craft better gear for you and/or your companions than what you can get. At endgame switch to Biochem and level that up. You'll have enough companions to get there in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purlana Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) It provides an advantage getting to end game. You generally are able to craft better gear for you and/or your companions than what you can get. At endgame switch to Biochem and level that up. You'll have enough companions to get there in no time. Well not really. It would be cheaper just to buy the upgrades you would have crafted, and sell the materials that you gathered along the way. It would also take less time Edited January 4, 2012 by Purlana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Other crewskills need re-usable items in order to balance things... Weapons, mods and armor aren't reusable? The schematics from slicing aren't reusable? Sorry, I didn't realize synthweavers had their armor disappear after a fight. Edited January 4, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadTidian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Weapons, mods and armor aren't reusable? The schematics from slicing aren't reusable? This. People seem to forget that Biochem, through leveling, is pretty expensive. To get those reusable items you have to gather materials from missions, craft a whole bunch of greens, RE those greens, craft a whole bunch of blues (after going out on god knows how many diplomacy missions) and RE those to FINALLY get that reusable purple. Then you have to be lucky enough to crit on Diplomacy to make that purple. Oh, btw, when you're done with that, turns out you are now level 21, and can use the next tier of craftable stims, making your level 8 ones useless. Rinse, wash, and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadTidian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Also, Biochem is EXPENSIVE. The medpacks sell less for what armortech can craft. Compared to other crafting stuff, the stuff you make with Biochem sells for a lot less, not to mention the purple re-usables you can't even sell unless your buyer has the same level of Biochem as you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 not to mention the purple re-usables you can't even sell unless your buyer has the same level of Biochem as you! I thought those were BOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purlana Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Weapons, mods and armor aren't reusable? The schematics from slicing aren't reusable? Reusing a weapon or armor is not a benefit of a crew skill. A biochem can reuse weapons and armor.... You need to pay to take out mods. Also how often do you reuse a mod, comapred to a biochem items? Schematics don't provide you with an item to re-use, you still need to use additional materials to craft each item you want. And the mission items only unlock the mission for 1 attempt. Biotech doesn't seem anymore expensive then the other crew skills... Edited January 4, 2012 by Purlana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Everyone should just go Biochem once for the Rakata stuff. Same for Cybertech and the grenades. If you see a schematic that makes a BoP upgrade for you, roll on it even if you don't have the crew skill currently, and then spend a few days going from 1-400 to claim your upgrade. I know this is a bit different than people are used to, but I think Bioware wants us switching our crew skills back and fourth, and I think it actually balances out very well. For example, once people are doing hard mode flashpoints, they'll obtain their rakata medkits and won't need to buy any Biochem stuff. Well, you don't need any of the crafted mods (for example) once you're doing hard mode flashpoints, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Reusing a weapon or armor is not a benefit of a crew skill. A biochem can reuse weapons and armor.... You need to pay to take out mods. Schematics don't provide you with an item to re-use, you still need to use additional materials to craft each item you want. And the mission items only unlock the mission for 1 attempt. Biotech doesn't seem anymore expensive then the other crew skills... When you need a new schematic every time you craft something then slicing can complain. What does the fee for removing mods have to do with anything? Edited January 4, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purlana Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) When you need a new schematic every time you craft something then slicing can complain. What does the fee for removing mods have to do with anything? I am not talking about just slicing, what about armortech and armstech...? Edited January 4, 2012 by Purlana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) You guys should read "First they came" by Martin Niemöller. Just saying... Keep calling for heavy handed nerfs like the one slicing got... and you'll get them. I'd much rather see each proffession get a tangable bonus for maxing it out, then having everything nerfed. For those of you complaining about armormech and synthweaving you should read the guide on reverse engineering. They really aren't anywhere near as useless as the average player would have you believe. Edited January 4, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Getting benefits from your class by being Biochem =/= Being Slicing and getting credits out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purlana Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) You guys should read "First they came" by Martin Niemöller. Just saying... Keep calling for heavy handed nerfs like the one slicing got... and you'll get them. But we are not, many of us are calling for buffs for other crew skills. And people don't like that either... Edited January 4, 2012 by Purlana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Biochem is the only profession where 99% of the stuff we make disappears half way through a fight. We needed something we can actually keep for a few levels. Edited January 4, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Getting benefits from your class by being Biochem =/= Being Slicing and getting credits out of thin air. Correct, I'd argue it's a lot better to get a tangable bonus in combat. It's why I'm cybertech, those grenades seem pretty neat. Kind of pointless to argue that though because it's like apples and oranges. One is gathering, the other is crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 But we are not, many of us are calling for buffs for other crew skills. And people don't like that either... I'm all for buffs for other professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 But we are not, many of us are calling for buffs for other crew skills. And people don't like that either... Yeah, and those people are pretty silly. Seems to me every crafting crewskill should have an equivelent to cybertech's grenades, and biochem's medpacks. My post was meant for the people who just cry nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Yeah, and those people are pretty silly. Seems to me every crafting crewskill should have an equivelent to cybertech's grenades, and biochem's medpacks. Why? So everyone has to grind up every profession? The Rakata stuff is BoP, but it doesn't require that you keep Biochem. You go Biochem once, make those items, then drop it for whatever you want next. EDIT: And if you loot a schematic for an ubear BoP item that another crew skill makes, you level that crew skill in order to make that item. You still might use the other crew skills, but Biochem and Cybertech are the default ones all min/maxers will want to level first. Edited January 4, 2012 by Lymain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Why? So everyone has to grind up every profession? The Rakata stuff is BoP, but it doesn't require that you keep Biochem. You go Biochem once, make those items, then drop it for whatever you want next. Srs? It doesn't have a biochem requirement? Because if not I'm totally picking up biochem when I come home. That doesn't sound right though. And yes, I feel like you should be rewarded with a slight edge, A la WoW, for maxing a crew skill. I feel it was only a positive addition to the game in terms of character complexity and variety and was good for the game. If what you said is true though, that needs to be fixed to have a requirement to use it because I totally agree that's not right. That's gotta be an oversight. Edited January 4, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadTidian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Obviously we should just nef everything until all the crafting professions give exactly the same thing, all the same advantages, and auto-level you to level 50 and make sure you complete end game content with little to no challenge. People will be happy then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Srs? It doesn't have a biochem requirement? Because if not I'm totally picking up biochem when I come home. That doesn't sound right though. And yes, I feel like you should be rewarded with a slight edge, A la WoW, for maxing a crew skill. I feel it was only a positive addition to the game in terms of character complexity and variety and was good for the game. It absolutely does not have a biochem requirement. Neither do the grenades. And, as I've been trying to explain to people, there are schematics, which themselves are BoP, that make BoP purple items. Do you really think Bioware made those for people who happened to have the correct match of Advanced Class and Crew Skill? I think they actually intend you to pick up the crew skill after looting the schematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why? So everyone has to grind up every profession? The Rakata stuff is BoP, but it doesn't require that you keep Biochem. You go Biochem once, make those items, then drop it for whatever you want next. EDIT: And if you loot a schematic for an ubear BoP item that another crew skill makes, you level that crew skill in order to make that item. You still might use the other crew skills, but Biochem and Cybertech are the default ones all min/maxers will want to level first. Yeah, because they have obvious tangable advantages over all other crafting. They should be giving similar bonuses to other crafting, not taking away content. That doesn't even make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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