Khaazilla Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you want a tank damage build where you can truly spam shock for lots of damage, try out my "Khaaz's PvP Build" (lol i love when people name builds after themselves) 12/13/16 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsMozZhGbMzZf0cRr0z.1 With that build my goal is to basically do as much damage as possible while still having great survivability and all the tank goodies that make you useful to a group in high level pvp like guard and taunts. As far as i'm concerned, those 12 or 13 points in Deception are absolutely necessary no matter what build you go. +15% movespeed? Must-have in pvp. Jolt CD Reduction? Must-have to shut down a healer. 25 force cost reduction on Shock? Must-have if you want to spam it. The +force regen from stealth and maul improvements are extremely helpful as well. Blackswell imo is probably a must-have as well in group pvp because force cloak/vanish is a lifesaver in pvp, but nothing will piss off your healer more than trying to heal you when you're really low and seeing nothing but 0's pop up. With that build you also get all the necessary stuff in the Darkness tree like Energize and the force speed improvements as well as all the fun stuff in Madness. Death Field and the Thrash crit damage talent are both silly good, as is chain shock if you're going a shock spam build. Raze and Torment are both real nice too and exploitative strikes gives you a permanent 9% melee crit bonus since you will always be critting with shock. If you want to do lots of damage, but still be tough to kill and useful to a team, i think this is a great a build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Harnessed Darkness is pretty overrated imo. Force Lightning doesn't do much damage for a tank sin using a shield generator (the damage co-efficient is based almost entirely on your +Force Power). For it to do good damage you'd have to be super geared and you'd have to use a focus offhand. Don't use a shield generator. It does next to nothing in PvP anyway. Force Lightning can be escaped if you don't have Wither, which is why I think you should go all the way to 31 darkness if you already went that far. With Wither, only stuff like Force Speed/Charge can possibly escape it, and those abilities will pretty much escape from anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PringerZ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes is does indeed say that but it's not implemented yet. Kind of makes you think that their intention is for that and it wad released in the tool tip early. If so that makes me a sad panda. 27/14 was my fave. Just noticed that too, I really hope that doesn't go through because 27/14/0 is my favorite build too ;_; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Farewell Trayes! Unsubbed today becose i just felt that the motivation and direction in SWTOR is none-existant for me right now. My sub will run out in like a day so wont be able to post anymore. Take care of the nublings and guide them well! Stalker set... lol //Karmasutra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaazilla Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't use a shield generator. It does next to nothing in PvP anyway. Force Lightning can be escaped if you don't have Wither, which is why I think you should go all the way to 31 darkness if you already went that far. With Wither, only stuff like Force Speed/Charge can possibly escape it, and those abilities will pretty much escape from anything. Yeah i actually switched to a focus item a couple days ago and i like it a lot better. Shock and FL are both hugely based on Force Power and so now my shocks do much more damage. Why do you need Wither for FL though? For the slow? Just use force slow, or stun and you're fine. It's as easy to escape as you would think. As long as they're within range when you cast the spell it's pretty hard to run out since the range stretches a little farther than the listed 10m range once you've cast it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yeah i actually switched to a focus item a couple days ago and i like it a lot better. Shock and FL are both hugely based on Force Power and so now my shocks do much more damage. Why do you need Wither for FL though? For the slow? Just use force slow, or stun and you're fine. It's as easy to escape as you would think. As long as they're within range when you cast the spell it's pretty hard to run out since the range stretches a little farther than the listed 10m range once you've cast it. If you got Harnessed Darkness you've at least 27 in Darkness so you won't have improved Force Slow, so it only lasts 6 second and has a 12s CD, so it's unreliable as a snare. Also in a Shock + FL rotation you're already using up a ton of Force very rapidly, and Force Slow is not resource free. It takes like a tick before the snare on FL actually takes effect from my experience, which gives the enemy a chance to somehow get out of the range or find somewhere to LoS it. Having another snare on them already greatly reduces their chance of escaping. Besides, Wither has a ton of utility and it's only 4 more points into Darkness assuming you already went far enough to get HD. At least I don't see anything super interesting that can be obtained for 4 more points in either Deception/Madness that warants not getting Wither if you already went that far in Darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PringerZ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you got Harnessed Darkness you've at least 27 in Darkness so you won't have improved Force Slow, so it only lasts 6 second and has a 12s CD, so it's unreliable as a snare. Also in a Shock + FL rotation you're already using up a ton of Force very rapidly, and Force Slow is not resource free. It takes like a tick before the snare on FL actually takes effect from my experience, which gives the enemy a chance to somehow get out of the range or find somewhere to LoS it. Having another snare on them already greatly reduces their chance of escaping. Besides, Wither has a ton of utility and it's only 4 more points into Darkness assuming you already went far enough to get HD. At least I don't see anything super interesting that can be obtained for 4 more points in either Deception/Madness that warants not getting Wither if you already went that far in Darkness. Those 4 points in a 27/14/0 build give you induction, darkswell and deceptive power, all of which help your force management using shock and force lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Those 4 points in a 27/14/0 build give you induction, darkswell and deceptive power, all of which help your force management using shock and force lightning The power of a Darkness spec is its relative mobility (Wither + Shock can be used while on the run) and range (Wither + Shock + FL are all 10m range). If you have to melee twice before using Shock, you lose all your range advantage and often your mobility against other melees (you can actually kite them as Darkness some of the time, but if you can melee them they definitely can melee you too).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaazilla Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you got Harnessed Darkness you've at least 27 in Darkness so you won't have improved Force Slow, so it only lasts 6 second and has a 12s CD, so it's unreliable as a snare. Also in a Shock + FL rotation you're already using up a ton of Force very rapidly, and Force Slow is not resource free. It takes like a tick before the snare on FL actually takes effect from my experience, which gives the enemy a chance to somehow get out of the range or find somewhere to LoS it. Having another snare on them already greatly reduces their chance of escaping. Besides, Wither has a ton of utility and it's only 4 more points into Darkness assuming you already went far enough to get HD. At least I don't see anything super interesting that can be obtained for 4 more points in either Deception/Madness that warants not getting Wither if you already went that far in Darkness. I dunno i've never had a problem with people running out of my FL on my sin. The built in slow has been more than enough for me to get off a full cast. Though i suppose another SI or JC could force speed out of it if they wanted but Wither wouldn't help with that. i'd recommend stunning before casting it if you're having issues with people running out of it. If you get wither you give up induction which is what makes a 27/14 build efficient, and allows you to stay in a fight doing really solid dps for long periods of time; and isn't that the point of going a tank/dps build? To be a char to who can stay in a fight for long periods of time while doing solid dps and supporting your healer/group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PringerZ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The power of a Darkness spec is its relative mobility (Wither + Shock can be used while on the run) and range (Wither + Shock + FL are all 10m range). If you have to melee twice before using Shock, you lose all your range advantage and often your mobility against other melees (you can actually kite them as Darkness some of the time, but if you can melee them they definitely can melee you too).. I disagree, the power of darkness is the fact that you maintain the tankyness of dark charge while still being able to pump out respectable damage and burst-- enough damage and tankiness to let you stand toe to toe with any other class and win. You mention mobility and kiting, but first and foremost we are a melee class, most of our damage stems from melee ranged procs (voltaic in deception, thrash in darkness, any melee for raze in madness) and I feel the power of darkness is having the durability to stay in to get those procs and damage out and the mobility from things like lightning recovery and disjunction let us stick in melee range to get those off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaazilla Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The power of a Darkness spec is its relative mobility (Wither + Shock can be used while on the run) and range (Wither + Shock + FL are all 10m range). If you have to melee twice before using Shock, you lose all your range advantage and often your mobility against other melees (you can actually kite them as Darkness some of the time, but if you can melee them they definitely can melee you too).. You usually have to melee twice to get an energize proc anyways so i don't see why induction would hinder you very much. If you're using shock without energize or induction then you're just wasting your force to do some very weak damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You don't melee people in deep Darkness specs unless it's to Assassinate or they're standing still while Shock and FL are on cooldown, and even then Wither is usually a better choice. The two Thrash + Shock build from Deception is precisely the reason why Deception has extreme problems in PvP, because it assumes that the enemy is 100% cooperative with your rotation. Pretty much nobody is going to stand still to let you get two Thrashes on them. If you insist on having 2 stacks of induction before using Shock (and hence, FL), you can easily be kited because it sure isn't very hard to get out of melee range. Energize/Induction basically has the same problem as what makes EW weak. People tend to assume the enemy will make no attempts to make it difficult for you to get those procs, but they obviously do. Of course if the enemy never moves out of melee range you should Thrash in between FL/Shock cooldowns, but even bad players know how to use their KBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaazilla Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You don't melee people in deep Darkness specs unless it's to Assassinate or they're standing still while Shock and FL are on cooldown, and even then Wither is usually a better choice. The two Thrash + Shock build from Deception is precisely the reason why Deception has extreme problems in PvP, because it assumes that the enemy is 100% cooperative with your rotation. Pretty much nobody is going to stand still to let you get two Thrashes on them. If you insist on having 2 stacks of induction before using Shock (and hence, FL), you can easily be kited because it sure isn't very hard to get out of melee range. Energize/Induction basically has the same problem as what makes EW weak. People tend to assume the enemy will make no attempts to make it difficult for you to get those procs, but they obviously do. Of course if the enemy never moves out of melee range you should Thrash in between FL/Shock cooldowns, but even bad players know how to use their KBs. Dude...what? You are playing the wrong class. We ARE a melee class whether you like it or not. Do you really not cast anything but wither and UN-enegized shocks? Lol if so, have you ever NOT been the lowest damage person in a warzone?? Edited January 25, 2012 by Khaazilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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