Trayes PVP build

[Trayes]

Hey everyone!

 

My name is Trayes and I PVP as an Assassin. I have been a Battlemaster for a while now and I just want to share my knowledge.

 

This is being edited right now so it is a mess.

PVP Tank Builds

27/14/0

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsrokrskbZhGbMk.1

 

This is more focused on DPSing while staying alive. Max stacked harnessed darkness with recklessness you can do about 5-6k damage with just force lightning.

 

23/0/18

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrokdskZZf0cRrMz.1

 

This build loves shock as well as Crushing Darkness. Raze is such a powerful skill with good crit and the main skill you spam (Thrash) Has 50% bonus crit damage. You also get another instant cast CC with Whirlwind.

 

31/0/10

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsrokrskbsZZf0cM.1

Edited January 23, 2012 by Trayes

[mordredz]

Um ok...

[ISpartanVI]

@ Trayes

 

I started a thread that is very similar to what you are trying to do.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=119649&page=1

 

Here is my build.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McbskrsZhGbMZf0c.1

 

I hope this information can help you perfect your build.

[Trayes]

Sorry but this is not a tri shock build. This is a PVP build and force pull and Spike out of stealth are a MUST. There is no reason not to get them. Now with my new 27/14 build I get Harnessed Darkness. This has proven to be MUCH stronger then I thought it would be. 1k+ damage a tick and health regen. It has worked really well so far and I plan to continue testing.

[Trayes]

stupid double post... Edited January 4, 2012 by Trayes

[oxente]

Yeah. IMO Harnesed darkness is much more atractive than Chain Shock. Since we have induction+energize we'll be shock spamming and building HD really fast. Plus you get spike out of stealth and Force pull, really cool.

 

I'm not lv 50 yet, so tell me, whats the normal and crit dmg of F light with 3 stack of HD?

 

My build on Spartan's topic is just like yours.

Edited January 4, 2012 by oxente

[Trayes]

With my sub par gear it is around 1.1k damage per tick with force lightning and 3 stacks of harnessed darkness.

[Azesino]

How are assassins in 1v1 pvp? which classes u kill easy? which classes kill u easy?

[Fappa]

I also PvP with the same 23 points into Darkness, and use dark charge. I agree that force pull and out of stealth spike are great (in fact I just got the 2 piece survivor's set bonus, so the CD on spike is only 20 seconds).

 

However, the rest of my points I put into madness and get Death field and raze, some other good things in that tree. To me, it's just a huge hassle to even use maul at all...because of the positional requirement and also because it's worthless unless you get an exploit weakness proc. Also I find I don't need blackout to aid force regen.

 

I could go into more depth why I like the madness talents over the deception ones.

[Trayes]

I also PvP with the same 23 points into Darkness, and use dark charge. I agree that force pull and out of stealth spike are great (in fact I just got the 2 piece survivor's set bonus, so the CD on spike is only 20 seconds).

 

However, the rest of my points I put into madness and get Death field and raze, some other good things in that tree. To me, it's just a huge hassle to even use maul at all...because of the positional requirement and also because it's worthless unless you get an exploit weakness proc. Also I find I don't need blackout to aid force regen.

 

I could go into more depth why I like the madness talents over the deception ones.

 

 

I think its a good idea that we both look at madness vs deception. I like them both.

 

23/0/18 seems like a beautiful spec to me. It is something I plan to test sometime.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIMokrskZZf0cRrMz.1

 

27/14/0 My spec just for so we can look at the 2 together.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMokrskbZhGbMk.1

 

Lets talk about the 2 specs and what our damage + force looks like in a fight.

 

My spec looks like this:

Stealth>Maul(or Shock)>Thrash>Thrash>Shock>Spike>Maul>Thrash>Thrash>Shock>(Recklessness) Force Lightning

 

If i Started with shock then I get that nice early force Lightning. This can be faster with the Shock Procs for auto crit and CD reset.

 

I feel like my spec has a higher damage/healing it can reach.. However, your spec has ANOTHER CC!

 

Your spec is something like this (I think):

 

Shock>Thrash>Thrash>Shock>Thrash>Thrash>Shock - Crushing Darkness whenever Raze procs.

 

Thrash is critting harder. You are critting more. Shock is double shocking 45% of the time. You have a 30 yard range instant CC with a 1 sec stun if broken early.

 

You save 10 Force every Thrash>Thrash>Shock.

I save 22.5 Force every Thrash>Thrash>Shock.

 

Your Thrash>Thrash>Shock will deal more damage then mine.

My Mauls will deal HUGE damage for only 25 Force.

 

Your burst damage is higher.

My sustained damage is higher.

 

My unbreakable will is on a shorter CD and my jolt is as well.

I move 15% faster all the time.

 

BTW I love the spec. Do you mind if I add it to my main post. I think it is very much in the right direction.

 

Please tell me more about how that spec plays.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Trayes

[Serosan]

Is a shield manditory for this 27/14 spec or would you just continue to use a two handed lightsaber instead? Not sure on the increased shield chance talent (dark ward) and wasn't sure if a shield was actually required for the talent... Thanks in advance

[ISpartanVI]

Don't ever open up with Maul, that is the worst thing you can do. Only use Maul if you have Exploit Weakness, if you don't have Duplicity then don't bother using Maul at all. Using Recklessness with Force Lightning is retarded. You kill one of your charges just by activating Force Lightning and you are gonna crit on 1 tick of Force Lightning, which is nothing compared to the dmg Shock does when it crits. Harnessed Darkness is too high on the tree to get and the only thing you gain from doing either of those specs compared to something similar to my spec is Raze/Death Field/Spike out of stealth/Force Pull.

 

Thrash is critting harder. You are critting more. Shock is double shocking 45% of the time. You have a 30 yard range instant CC with a 1 sec stun if broken early.

 

You save 10 Force every Thrash>Thrash>Shock.

I save 22.5 Force every Thrash>Thrash>Shock.

 

Your Thrash>Thrash>Shock will deal more damage then mine.

My Mauls will deal HUGE damage for only 25 Force.

 

Your burst damage is higher.

My sustained damage is higher.

 

My unbreakable will is on a shorter CD and my jolt is as well.

I move 15% faster all the time.

 

Im pretty sure the spec i suggested gets both of those benefits, and you aren't losing any survivability by going this route. Only increasing your offense. I dont think Harnessed Darkness/Raze/Death Field/Spike out of stealth/Force Pull is all that worth losing all that sustained damage/burst damage while maintaining great survivability. At the end of the day its all about playing the way you want to play. Good luck to you.

[Trayes]

Don't ever open up with Maul, that is the worst thing you can do. Only use Maul if you have Exploit Weakness, if you don't have Duplicity then don't bother using Maul at all. Using Recklessness with Force Lightning is retarded. You kill one of your charges just by activating Force Lightning and you are gonna crit on 1 tick of Force Lightning, which is nothing compared to the dmg Shock does when it crits. Harnessed Darkness is too high on the tree to get and the only thing you gain from doing either of those specs compared to something similar to my spec is Raze/Death Field/Spike out of stealth/Force Pull.

 

 

 

Im pretty sure the spec i suggested gets both of those benefits, and you aren't losing any survivability by going this route. Only increasing your offense. I dont think Harnessed Darkness/Raze/Death Field/Spike out of stealth/Force Pull is all that worth losing all that sustained damage/burst damage while maintaining great survivability. At the end of the day its all about playing the way you want to play. Good luck to you.

 

So lets clear up a lot of things for you.

 

1. Recklessness: Force Lightning + Recklessness uses ONE CHARGE and gives the whole spells +60% crit. Add that together with Harnessed Darkness and thats 90% crit and 75% bonus damage and 3% of my max HP per tick. That is pretty huge if you ask me. I also still have another charge for my shock.

 

2. Opening with Maul(Shock): With the 50% force regen when coming out of stealth I have to use something the spends a LARGE part of my force or part of the regen will be wasted. So starting with Maul (50 Force) or Shock (45 Force) lets me have a chance at really solid burst while not wasting any of my force regen.

 

3. Your build loses 2 of the biggest things in PVP. 20% armor + 2 sec knockdown and Force Pull. And you lose those things JUST to get 30% chance for 50% of BASE DAMAGE on your shock. SO if your shock hits for 1k you do an extra 500 damage 30% of the time.

 

PVP is all about control. My spike (With pvp gear) Has a 20 sec CD. This is huge to shut down healers. Jolt>Spike>Jolt>Stun>Jolt and if that is not enough I can sprint away and Force Pull for another interrupt followed by another Jolt.

 

Remember this build is for PVP and in PVP there is huttball and in huttball Force pull is a game saver. Also force pull on someone running to a cap point can protect the person capping. Force pull can get those healers into your group so you can kill them. Force pull can keep people away from someone planting a bomb. Force pull can get someone off your healer.

 

Also if you didn't know spike knocks the person forward a little. This is great for throwing people into fire. Overall I do not feel like your build is made for real PVP. It is made for dealing a little extra damage in PVP but that is about it. Even the Raze build has more damage than your build as well as more CC. It not only has spike out of stealth but it also has instant cast whirlwind with a stun on it.

 

So far the build that has worked best for me is the 27/14/0 build. I tested the 23/0/18 build last night and it was as good as I thought it would be. My only problem was (and it is my own problem) I kept forgetting to use Whirlwind.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Trayes

[Astarica]

Opening with Maul in PvP can be a good idea if you assume you'll immediately get CCed and don't plan on using your CC breaker yet. However sometimes you don't get CCed and you lose. I open with Discharge (Dark Charge) in stealth mainly to try to catch any stealth classes around and just do a standard Thrash X 2 + Shock. If I only get KB/root/snare I use Force Speed to break it and continue. If I get hard CCed (stun/incapaciate) I lose compared to using Maul. It's a judgment call. Of course you should open with Maul in stealth against a target around 50% HP since a crit can bring them to Assassinate range immediately and then go for the kill.

 

I'm not sure how you can repeatedly stun a healer in PvP due to resolve bar. Usually the healer I'm fighting already has half a resolve bar build from other people spamming random CCs, so I really don't want to spike him even if I could (I cannot in my spec) because that'd mean he'd have a full resolve bar and I can't Electrocute. Jolt->Spike->Jolt->Electrocute only works if the enemy has no resolve bar, which seems to be a relatively rare occurence in Warzones.

 

The problem with using Recklessness with Force Lightning is that you might get interrupted halfway or the guy gets out of LOS (this is especially common in Huttball) and get only half a charge worth of effect on Recklessness. Force Lightning + Recklessness is devastating but I usually only use that combo if I have a full resolve bar. A good place to do it would be at the beginning of Huttball, from the catwalk above since nobody would expect a melee to range attack them from there, so there's virtually no chance you'll get interrupted. Do one Force Lightning, reposition yourself above as needed while waiting for cooldown, and then Force Lightning again. YOu'll deliver about 6-8K of damage in two spells and that forces the enemy to react, or you can just jump down and finish the guy who took your 2 Force Lightnings.

[Trayes]

Opening with Maul in PvP can be a good idea if you assume you'll immediately get CCed and don't plan on using your CC breaker yet. However sometimes you don't get CCed and you lose. I open with Discharge (Dark Charge) in stealth mainly to try to catch any stealth classes around and just do a standard Thrash X 2 + Shock. If I only get KB/root/snare I use Force Speed to break it and continue. If I get hard CCed (stun/incapaciate) I lose compared to using Maul. It's a judgment call. Of course you should open with Maul in stealth against a target around 50% HP since a crit can bring them to Assassinate range immediately and then go for the kill.

 

I'm not sure how you can repeatedly stun a healer in PvP due to resolve bar. Usually the healer I'm fighting already has half a resolve bar build from other people spamming random CCs, so I really don't want to spike him even if I could (I cannot in my spec) because that'd mean he'd have a full resolve bar and I can't Electrocute. Jolt->Spike->Jolt->Electrocute only works if the enemy has no resolve bar, which seems to be a relatively rare occurence in Warzones.

 

The problem with using Recklessness with Force Lightning is that you might get interrupted halfway or the guy gets out of LOS (this is especially common in Huttball) and get only half a charge worth of effect on Recklessness. Force Lightning + Recklessness is devastating but I usually only use that combo if I have a full resolve bar. A good place to do it would be at the beginning of Huttball, from the catwalk above since nobody would expect a melee to range attack them from there, so there's virtually no chance you'll get interrupted. Do one Force Lightning, reposition yourself above as needed while waiting for cooldown, and then Force Lightning again. YOu'll deliver about 6-8K of damage in two spells and that forces the enemy to react, or you can just jump down and finish the guy who took your 2 Force Lightnings.

 

Harnessed Darkness makes it so you cant be interrupted. Also most of the time in PVP the pugs are stupid and ignore healers while they sit in the back. So Jolt>Spike>Jolt>Stun works just fine.

[Astarica]

Harnessed Darkness makes it so you cant be interrupted. Also most of the time in PVP the pugs are stupid and ignore healers while they sit in the back. So Jolt>Spike>Jolt>Stun works just fine.

 

Doesn't a KB still interrupt your Force Lightning because you moved? I thought it only made you immune to interrupt effects. It'll also still fail if someone LoS you, which is pretty common in Huttball just because of the terrain. I am a big fan of Force Lightning but there's a lot of ways for the spell to fail. You really need the opponent to at least be in open terrain to not risk wasting a charge of Recklessness.

 

A lot of people spam AE KBs and whatever and I commonly see guys starting with half a bar of resolve. I was guilty of doing that before I figured that out.

[Trayes]

Doesn't a KB still interrupt your Force Lightning because you moved? I thought it only made you immune to interrupt effects. It'll also still fail if someone LoS you, which is pretty common in Huttball just because of the terrain. I am a big fan of Force Lightning but there's a lot of ways for the spell to fail. You really need the opponent to at least be in open terrain to not risk wasting a charge of Recklessness.

 

A lot of people spam AE KBs and whatever and I commonly see guys starting with half a bar of resolve. I was guilty of doing that before I figured that out.

 

Yes a KB will still stop it.. but even 2 ticks of force lightning is 2600+ damage. You just don't cast it while people are close to LOS. Its not that hard.

[ISpartanVI]

you are a utility player, and i understand that, that's cool cause you got some good builds for that. I neglect some utility the trees offer for other things like burst damage. Not having Force Pull/Spike out of stealth will suck, but it is not gonna make or break me. There is plenty of builds that don't even have them in it. Also Force Lightning does burn 1 charge of Recklessness upon activation and opening up with Maul in your build is no good. Period. You should be opening with shock almost every time because you want those HD stacks, and even if you don't, mashing abilities on cooldown is gonna be enough to get benefit from that force regen. Also Chain Shock activates 45% of the time not 30%. Raze IMO is garbage, 33% chance of activation on ONLY a melee crit, and i don't like those odds for burst damage. Explosive Strikes is really good for any build using heavy force abilities, which both our specs use. Also instant WW is awesome. I am pretty sure that HD only stops attacks from interrupting your channeling? Making anything that causes you to move or stun you will still stop your channeling.

[Trayes]

you are a utility player, and i understand that, that's cool cause you got some good builds for that. I neglect some utility the trees offer for other things like burst damage. Not having Force Pull/Spike out of stealth will suck, but it is not gonna make or break me. There is plenty of builds that don't even have them in it. Also Force Lightning does burn 1 charge of Recklessness upon activation and opening up with Maul in your build is no good. Period. You should be opening with shock almost every time because you want those HD stacks, and even if you don't, mashing abilities on cooldown is gonna be enough to get benefit from that force regen. Also Chain Shock activates 45% of the time not 30%. Raze IMO is garbage, 33% chance of activation on ONLY a melee crit, and i don't like those odds for burst damage. Explosive Strikes is really good for any build using heavy force abilities, which both our specs use. Also instant WW is awesome. I am pretty sure that HD only stops attacks from interrupting your channeling? Making anything that causes you to move or stun you will still stop your channeling.

 

I say 30% on Chain shock because if you just remove 2 points from it you get Spike and Force pull. Also you will notice i say Maul(Shock). It depends on what is going on. A maul crit > getting a HD stack if the person is around 40% hp. Also Maul can proc the improved maul letting me maul 2 times. And yes stun and movement will stop my Force lightning.

 

On the Raze build

 

Lets say you have 35% crit. 21% base + 9% from Madness tree +5% from Buff. Thrash hits 2 times per use. Using it 4 times is 8 attacks. Each attack has a 35% chance to crit and each crit has a 33% chance to proc Raze. In those 8 attacks odds are you will get a raze proc.

 

It looks something like this Thrash>Thrash>Shock>Thrash>Thrash>Shock>CD. Sometimes I strings of CD procs letting me do HUGE damage.

[Hethroin]

Yes a KB will still stop it.. but even 2 ticks of force lightning is 2600+ damage. You just don't cast it while people are close to LOS. Its not that hard.

 

In the 23/0/18 spec 1 Shock is 2600 damage and potentially (45% chance) another 1300. I use the DPS set with this spec and get 3 charges of recklessness, so losing one to a double shock proc doesn't bother me as much.

 

Instant whirlwind is an awesome skill, but you need to be mindful of how and when you use it. Putting it on someone will give them a full (WHITE) resolve bar if someone else tags them. I try to use it on RDPS that hang out 30m away (HINT: Removes Snipers from cover for pulling), or on MDPS that's looking like he is about to charge in. It's especially useful to change a 2v1 into a 1.3v1, and is very good at saving your healer from an Scoundrel's alpha strike.

 

Like you were saying, having ran the spec, I would never give up non-stealth spike and force pull for PVP. There is no better huttball plot-twist than pulling a ball runner who is passing pit #2 back into a lit pit #1, add spike for extra crispy.

[Trayes]

In the 23/0/18 spec 1 Shock is 2600 damage and potentially (45% chance) another 1300. I use the DPS set with this spec and get 3 charges of recklessness, so losing one to a double shock proc doesn't bother me as much.

 

Instant whirlwind is an awesome skill, but you need to be mindful of how and when you use it. Putting it on someone will give them a full (WHITE) resolve bar if someone else tags them. I try to use it on RDPS that hang out 30m away (HINT: Removes Snipers from cover for pulling), or on MDPS that's looking like he is about to charge in. It's especially useful to change a 2v1 into a 1.3v1, and is very good at saving your healer from an Scoundrel's alpha strike.

 

Like you were saying, having ran the spec, I would never give up non-stealth spike and force pull for PVP. There is no better huttball plot-twist than pulling a ball runner who is passing pit #2 back into a lit pit #1, add spike for extra crispy.

 

Unless your shocks are HITTING and not critting for 2600 your second shock will not hit for 1300. If your shocks are critting for 2600 I am guessing its with the auto crit and Recklessness up and you have solid PVP gear. When I was doing the testing I was only critting for 2300.

 

Also 23/0/18 is just not as good at running the ball as 23+/12+/??.

[oxente]

The good thing about this is that us, assassins, have so many good build. We are debating 3 builds that have real potential.

 

27/14/00 - HD that will be probably my build when i reach 50.

 

23/00/18 - haze

 

21/12/08 - tri shock

 

 

Even the Deception Voltaic are also good. I guess that will be very hard to get bored of my sin, cause we can always swap the builds and have fun and still be competitive.

Edited January 6, 2012 by oxente

[Trayes]

The good thing about this is that us, assassins, have so many good build. We are debating 3 builds that have real potential.

 

27/14/00 - HD that will be probably my build when i reach 50.

 

23/00/18 - haze

 

21/12/08 - tri shock

 

 

Even the Deception Voltaic are also good. I guess that will be very hard to get bored of my sin, cause we can always swap the builds and have fun and still be competitive.

 

I agree that we have a lot of great builds and that is why I am tying to get more people to talk about it and give their ideas.

 

I want to be 23/0/18 so bad. However 27/14/0 just fits the way I play so much better.

[ISpartanVI]

if your playing Huttball, which is pretty much the bulk of pvp right now, maximizing utility is the best way to go. Force Pull/Spike out of stealth and Instant cast WW for the score. 23/0/18 is probably the best huttball spec.

[Trayes]

if your playing Huttball, which is pretty much the bulk of pvp right now, maximizing utility is the best way to go. Force Pull/Spike out of stealth and Instant cast WW for the score. 23/0/18 is probably the best huttball spec.

 

Most of the time I run the ball so I find that a better cooldown on Unbreakable Will is really nice. It is up almost every time I make it to the fire.

 

I will be honest 27/14/0 and 23/0/18 are my 2 favorite specs for Huttball. 27/14/0 is my ball runner and Mid controller while 23/0/18 is just all around good. However I have less force problems while running 27/14/0.