Recent actions against some customer accounts

[JeramieCrowe]

they have already done that then since they mentioned it earlier in the thread. doing what i said would only take their vague explanation of what happened and make it less vague. and it would not be what they specifically did if they said what i mentioned only that they did something that caused the respawn timer to reset.

 

Okay, I'll put it this way:

 

There is a member in my guild that was doing slicing missions and slicing himself at high levels, despite being only in his 20's.

 

He never once received a warning or anything. Why not? Because his behavior was not abnormal. So far, everything that you and humpacactus has postulated was already expressed by Nemrodh earlier in this thread:

 

Think about what you are agree too. they are saying you cant stand in a area for long term and kill mobs, clearing it so you can loot a chest. I'm not sure how this breaks any rules. They have worked for it, they killed the mobs, the earned the chest. Its not a quest item or mob. they are not hurting anyone else.

 

If that is the case, when you get a quest to kill 50 mobs in a single area they by rights are allowing you to break the rules temporarily? SO if there are only 3 camps that spawn said mobs and you hang out there for pre-set period of time I should expect a suspension or ban?

 

If they don't want me on a planet at level 10, then level lock the planet. problem solved.

 

I don't see how a level 30 is going to clear a level 50 area. So if a level 50 agrees to help the 30 clear it and get loot, again, if that isn't allowed why have guilds or groups. You cant solo black talon at 10, so if you go in there with a group of people you still haven't earned that loot, you didn't solo it.

 

if you want people to solo content, maybe a MMO isn't such a good idea?

 

What was Stephen Reid's reply to that:

 

While we will not being going into further details of the accounts that were actioned against, suffice to say they were not conducting any activities similar to what you described.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[monegames]

Read it again. NO ONE IS BEING PUNISHED FOR GATHERING THERE!!!

 

only "systematically and repeatedly" gathering there or looting chests that open to any level player. like the person you quoted suspending people that do it is not the answer fixing it is. you or anyone could have gone there at level 16-17 and done the same thing and not known that you could have been punished for it. and many can still, since most do not come to the forums regularly or at all.

[JeramieCrowe]

It says in the quote that a small number had been warned or temporarily suspended/banned (or basically punished).

 

Am I really missing something obvious?

 

Yes, you are.

[humpacactus]

only "systematically and repeatedly" gathering there or looting chests that open to any level player. like the person you quoted suspending people that do it is not the answer fixing it is. you or anyone could have gone there at level 16-17 and done the same thing and not known that you could have been punished for it. and many can still, since most do not come to the forums regularly or at all.

 

Your right - "systematically and repeatedly" basically means players farming loot a lot. They might be farming more than me (thus changing the economy) but at the end of the day they took the time to farm "systematically and repeatedly." They didn't cheat and use a bot/exploit, etc.

[JeramieCrowe]

Your right - "systematically and repeatedly" basically means players farming loot a lot. They might be farming more than me (thus changing the economy) but at the end of the day they took the time to farm "systematically and repeatedly." They didn't cheat and use a bot/exploit, etc.

 

Most gold farmers don't use bots or exploits either. Just leave them be?

[humpacactus]

Most gold farmers don't use bots or exploits either. Just leave them be?

 

There shouldn't be anything wrong with farming gold. Selling it, botting for it, duping it, all are very bannable things.

 

Farming gold shouldn't be bannable or temporarily bannable.

Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus

[monegames]

Most gold farmers don't use bots or exploits either. Just leave them be?

 

as long as they are not selling their credits for cash sure, since that clearly against TOS.

[chizhik]

If someone farms for only 7 hours, that is only "a bit", from my perspective. It's a subjective term that you cannot possibly use objectively.

 

However, as I've stipulated already, and which you've conveniently ignored, BioWare's cold, hard numbers gathered with their metrics programs (computers are objective, obviously), thus the resulting objective facts that those "FEW" were acting well outside of "normal gameplay"

 

All I'm asking is for Bioware to tell me exactly where the lines are drawn. I don't want my account to be suspended because I've happened to generate more than what their numbers are telling them is reasonable for an average player in an average game session. As far as I'm concerned, they can share their definition of "too much for your character level" or **** - they have the right to ban me or suspend me, but they don't have the right to my continued monthly payments.

[JeramieCrowe]

There shouldn't be anything wrong with farming gold. Selling it, botting for it, duping it, all are very bannable things.

 

Farming gold shouldn't be bannable or temporarily bannable.

 

Except that gold farmers have a very repeatable, ascertainable pattern of behavior. One that is recordable, predictable, and one that is generally not conducive to the intended gameplay.

 

Mimic that pattern, and you get what you get. Because you're not playing the game as intended. That's the bottom line. And, so far, VERY FEW have actually fallen into that, AFTER BEING WARNED.

 

I feel no sorrow for them.

 

 

 

And with that, I must retire to my bed.

[JeramieCrowe]

as long as they are not selling their credits for cash sure, since that clearly against TOS.

 

You don't always know if they are or not. The best way is to map a pattern of behavior. Which BioWare has done. And implemented.

 

Kudos to BioWare.

[LordJestR]

Your right - "systematically and repeatedly" basically means players farming loot a lot. They might be farming more than me (thus changing the economy) but at the end of the day they took the time to farm "systematically and repeatedly." They didn't cheat and use a bot/exploit, etc.

 

And how to do you know they aren't cheating or bottomg or cheating? You are arguing just for sake of arguing based on assumptions you made on that phrase "systematically and repeatedly". The way I see it, BW has figures and numbers to back their actions while most of the people complaining are just riding on a slippery slope to ignorance.

 

It is already stated many times, these banned/suspended accounts are doing things far beyond normal gameplay. The only people that are unhappy are exploiters and goldbuyers.

[monegames]

You don't always know if they are or not. The best way is to map a pattern of behavior. Which BioWare has done. And implemented.

 

Kudos to BioWare.

 

behavior does not make you guilty. actions do. just because i behave like a gold seller(farm for credits all the time) does not make me a gold seller.

 

why suspend them if you can't find that they were selling credits?

and why not state that they were exploiting unless they weren't?

and if they were not why suspend them?

[humpacactus]

And how to do you know they aren't cheating or bottomg or cheating? You are arguing just for sake of arguing based on assumptions you made on that phrase "systematically and repeatedly". The way I see it, BW has figures and numbers to back their actions while most of the people complaining are just riding on a slippery slope to ignorance.

 

It is already stated many times, these banned/suspended accounts are doing things far beyond normal gameplay. The only people that are unhappy are exploiters and goldbuyers.

 

This was the exact same issue me and radiata had. Your assuming that Bioware has all the facts and I'm assuming that had it been botting or duping they would have said:

 

"Players had been using third party apps to farm and duplicate gold" (or something to that extent).

 

Technically you might be right, technically I might be right. I'm just going by how previous MMO's have handled similar situations.

[monegames]

And how to do you know they aren't cheating or bottomg or cheating? You are arguing just for sake of arguing based on assumptions you made on that phrase "systematically and repeatedly". The way I see it, BW has figures and numbers to back their actions while most of the people complaining are just riding on a slippery slope to ignorance.

 

It is already stated many times, these banned/suspended accounts are doing things far beyond normal gameplay. The only people that are unhappy are exploiters and goldbuyers.

 

i am not saying they were not cheating or botting. i am asking if they were.

 

it becomes a slippery slope for bioware to suspend for what some might consider "normal gameplay" while they do not. to me something may be normal and to them it could get my account suspended. i just want to know where they stand.

 

botting and glitching are not "normal gameplay" i agree but they should just come out and say that if they were.

[humpacactus]

i am not saying they were not cheating or botting. i am asking if they were.

 

it becomes a slippery slope for bioware to suspend for what some might consider "normal gameplay" while they do not. to me something may be normal and to them it could get my account suspended. i just want to know where they stand.

 

botting and glitching are not "normal gameplay" i agree but they should just come out and say that if they were.

 

All MMO's in the past generally do just come out and say it. This is exactly why people are concerned and your completely spot on.

 

Why wouldn't they say it was a third party exploit or botting tool if that's what the issue was regarding?

Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus

[vIBIENNYx]

To be honest, I think BioWare were kind of hoping that people wouldn't do this and would actually play the game without the overall goal of making millions and to experience the game more socially and from a story standpoint.

 

This is a rule they have implemented to keep the game balanced and more enjoyable for other players and I agree with it, whether they can get there "Legitly" or with or without 3rd party software its a rather selfish and quite frankly disorderly.

[humpacactus]

To be honest, I think BioWare were kind of hoping that people wouldn't do this and would actually play the game without the overall goal of making millions and to experience the game more socially and from a story standpoint.

 

This is a rule they have implemented to keep the game balanced and more enjoyable for other players and I agree with it, whether they can get there "Legitly" or with or without 3rd party software its a rather selfish and quite frankly disorderly.

 

This is what I'm having trouble with and others have said the same.

 

You might as well be saying that a person who legimitatly spends hours and hours of their real time farming is just as bad as a botter.

 

I can't agree with this at all.

[monegames]

To be honest, I think BioWare were kind of hoping that people wouldn't do this and would actually play the game without the overall goal of making millions and to experience the game more socially and from a story standpoint.

 

This is a rule they have implemented to keep the game balanced and more enjoyable for other players and I agree with it, whether they can get there "Legitly" or with or without 3rd party software its a rather selfish and quite frankly disorderly.

 

if that was the case there were very niave since that mindset is seen in every mmo.

[Wilford]

No not so be it. You cannot sit and camp a location taking all the loot and leaving nothing for everyone else. Especially if you arent even high enough level to be there to begin with. It isnt a slippery slope its very cut and dry. Don't try to take everything for yourself and you wont have these problems. If Bioware wants to make rules is that not their right as the owner of the game? This is a welcome to most people who just want to play and not camp the loot boxes so noone else can get them. I applaud Bioware for it.

 

lol... Clearly this person is new to MMOs and doesn't know what they are talking about. Camping loot drops and rare mobs is acceptable in literally every other MMO in existence. The reason this is a dramatic issue is because people can't believe the stance Bioware is taking on the subject.

 

This isn't Hello Kitty Online. This is an MMO.

[humpacactus]

lol... Clearly this person is new to MMOs and doesn't know what they are talking about. Camping loot drops and rare mobs is acceptable in literally every other MMO in existence. The reason this is a dramatic issue is because people can't believe the stance Bioware is taking on the subject.

 

This isn't Hello Kitty Online. This is an MMO.

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who found the post a bit silly. Unfortunately, many of the posts on this forum post follow along those lines exactly.

Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus

[LordJestR]

This was the exact same issue me and radiata had. Your assuming that Bioware has all the facts and I'm assuming that had it been botting or duping they would have said:

 

"Players had been using third party apps to farm and duplicate gold" (or something to that extent).

 

Technically you might be right, technically I might be right. I'm just going by how previous MMO's have handled similar situations.

 

I would say it is a fair assumption to say the people who created the system have most of the facts. Granted they might not be omnipotent, but this is their world, their system and their records.

 

Btm line is you want BW to present detailed cases and examples on what they banned and suspended. I doubt that will happen.

[fumaM]

these bans and the arguments stated for the ban are jokes.

 

If you don't know how to program a system to prevent low level to opening high level boxes it's your fault.

 

We're not talking about bots or automation to exploit the game here, we're talking about people doing things that can be done... too much.

 

It's like if a boy that turns 16 find a employement and gain 12000$ X month whitout getting an university title. It pisses me off, but that's good for him. Government doesn't ban him because he gain too much money for his age.

Edited January 3, 2012 by fumaM

[ninjashadowdark]

So if I am level 50 on Ilum camping and farming those chests it is acceptable? If so, than those at BioWare are hypocrites, and while that is not against any rule or is illegal, it makes you look bad.

 

ok then go ahead . do it then if you don't be leave what he said i mean if you get your account banned he warn you. I will not be doing this >< . i bow down to your mighty bioware

[ninjashadowdark]

these bans and the arguments stated for the ban are jokes.

 

If you don't know how to program a system to prevent low level to opening high level boxes it's your fault.

 

We're not talking about bots or automation to exploit the game here, we're talking about people doing things that can be done... too much.

 

It's like if a boy that turns 16 find a employement and gain 12000$ X month whitout getting an university title. It pisses me off, but that's good for him. Government doesn't ban him because he gain too much money for his age.

 

well if you don't understand what he trying to do is make the game enjoyable to all not to hurt people......people need to stop being greedy

[Coldim]

Except that gold farmers have a very repeatable, ascertainable pattern of behavior. One that is recordable, predictable, and one that is generally not conducive to the intended gameplay.

 

Mimic that pattern, and you get what you get. Because you're not playing the game as intended. That's the bottom line. And, so far, VERY FEW have actually fallen into that, AFTER BEING WARNED.

 

I feel no sorrow for them.

 

 

 

And with that, I must retire to my bed.

 

Are we really talking about MMO game? That's the first MMO I've ever heard about ppl can be punished for obtaining "gold". Heck - if I farm ISK in EVE Online for 10days straight, and then just scam someone selling him crap described as "omg great ship" I'm just rich, and no one tells me I'm not playing the way they wanted me to play. If Bioware wants player lvl10 to be at xx,yy having zzz amount of Credits maybe they should make a single player game? I for one have been logging just to send my companions on missions cause I've been watching The Wire intensively - is that not intended gameplay as well? I mean - I probably shouldnt get rich while afk(doing that in EVE anyway), and yet, they gave me tools to do so, and as I play MMO I like being rich.