Dramion
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Posts posted by Dramion
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Is it still 300 crit rating and 250 surge rating?
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I posted this on the PTR forums but thought it would be a good read for some of you in this thread.
Check out how the Engine of Hero came to SWtor
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hmmm nah we are not full rakata, i am nearly but my mate is still missing some pieces....
i am wondering if the raid just took too much dmg....
what about the dmg from yarg...what would you say...how much more dmg can a meleee dps take than a healer without that you can say it is cleary too much and its avoidable?
The melee should be on I believe its Sorno the one on the right when you first enter the room, All range should be on yarg, the melee on Sorno shouldn't start taking dmg till they go into the middle (sorno needs to be interrupted, operative is also a good person to put on Sorno, need 3 interrupts). When they are both together at the start our sorc aoe heal in the middle should hit both tanks and the melee. Once they go into the middle as long as no one is standing close to yard the tank should be the only one taking a lot of damage. Yard will pull you in and thats when you get hit with damage. Also there is a dot looks like a rock explosion icon under the debuff on you and others that can be purged, the dot will hurt a TON. As long as everyone is moving away from yarg when pulled to him and everyone is avoiding the purple circles it goes smooth on the healing part. If the droids that freez the tanks are not killed fast it will be come very hard to heal.
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anyone done yarg/sorno nightmare after 1.2 so far? till this fight i also thought i am fine with the changes and can deal with it (standing in my own aoe all the time, getting to the melees as much as possible to heal all of us with my aoe and be able to hit consumption and get healed...blabla)
"thats my post in the other thread:
we had already killed yarg/sorno in nightmare 8 before the patch once, and it was already the hardest fight in terms of healing, back then it was me, a sorc, with a merc.
so yesterday we went again to kp nightmare, to get the black hole comm. this fight was so frustrating. we are not the best and not the worst raid, but i think i can say of myself that i have a very good and long experience of healing in raids (from "the other" game). after 1.2 so far i have only done the new op in story mode and i thought, hey i can deal with the changes. but not with yarg/sorno. we were 2 sorcs and of course we stood in our aoe heal etc, but the entire raid took soo much damage that it was impossible to keep them up and to keep myself up, i ran out of force at 40% approx., wasnt able to hit consumption bc i was so low on health. it was just frustration. i am sure that there is potential for improvements for the entire raid to take less damage, but without a raidwide combat log its difficult to find the problems.
we then killed the boss in hardmode, where i ended up with a good amount of force again, no problem at all.
in this fight, as well as later with the nightmare mode of the puzzle boss, i really now first noticed the missing burst heal. yes maybe i might have to use dark heal more often to heal the tank fast, but with a fight like yarg/sorno, when you already have force issues thats not the best option either. doing the puzzle boss, i heal the tank and the melees on the ground more or less alone, while the other healer is on the platform with the 2 dps doing the puzzle. especially when the robot is on the left side, the tank takes so much dmg you can hardly keep him up. "
regarding builds, i also tried out subversion (someone said it solved his force probs) but now think it isnt worth it, i rather have the points in will of sith. in a fight like yarg/sorno, i dont have time to cast lighting strike anyway, i am busy with healing all the time. and when i have tim to cast it, force isnt an issue in the fight anyway. i also have my points in empty body, u must not forget that it also increases the heal you get from the other healer.
I did NiM Soa and NiM KP last night with 2 sorc healers. We are full rakata and have augmented sabres, we found that Yarg/Sorono on NiM is much easier than pre 1.2 we also found that SOA is a lot easier too.
As far as the nerf to our abiltiy to gain force back. I was extremely against it, after doing operations since it last came out and clearing story mode EC I still do not agree with the nerf. think healers should not be hurting them selfs to gain a resource back unless they was meant to do that from the start. However last night during our operations I tried something I saw on the forums and that was if you see your sorc buddy cast a aoe and you have the proc up to get a consumption without the debuff use it and then use it 2 more times while in the aoe and you are back to full health and full force. Works great and I am sure it will get nerfed lol..
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After raiding the other night I have unsubbed and written them a long explanation as to why. The drastic changes they have implemented are a dangerous design strategy and leave me with little faith in the design team for this game. I still have about 90 days left and will only be logging on to do operations on our designated raid nights so that I don't let my real life friends that I play with down.
It only took 1 raid night to feel how hard the hammer really fell. After reading about the changes I had prepared myself for the fact that I was going to mashing RS a **** ton and heat management was going to be a nightmare. Even with that in mind I was still very surprised and very frustrated at how difficult it was to heal content that I was appropriately geared for.
If we had other healers that would log on regularly, I probably wouldn't even bother and would just DPS until my time expires, it would be a lot more fun.
Speaking from a sorc point of view, I was thinking the same way and tried the new Operation, we cleared the new operation with 2 sorc healers in full rakata. After raiding KP NiM (Jarg/Sona-MUCH easier), I have came to believe that I over reacted to he changes and I have now adjusted to them. Our burst dps heal is terrible as 60% crit on a spell that only crits for 3k is terrible but it is doable.
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At first I was wondering the same thing. I then played over the weekend a few hours in operations and now I am fine with it. It does take some using to get used to the change, once you do though its like the nerf never happened on the force regain side.
The big burst heal is another issue though, this one affects pve and pvp. It is hard to bring a tank up with such a slow cast, my innervates crit for 1800ish almost every tick but still not enough when they are below 50%.
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I will try it out and report back to this thread. Thanks for changing to the correct person on who posted it. The layout of his post was a bit odd so my question looked like the answer, then you post it to clear it all up.
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Umm with out knowing your gear i am going by your cast time on DI. The problem to me is that you have way to much alacrity. Bio Ware loves the stat but it is really garbage.
Find some mods with more Power/willpower if you can find them and if not ones with crit surge. The reason is that though you will be casting a slight bit faster with all that alacrity your heals are just not hitting hard enough to matter. (even the one from teh illum daily can be better)
If you are going through a force bending, innervate, Di and your tank is still low then your heals are not hitting as hard as they should or your tank is doing something very wrong.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GGbRrd0dGzZf00MZoM.1
I am going to assume is your spec. If not then it should be.
power relic or the crit/surge relic should be what you want to use. The power one increases your heals and the strength of your bubble.
also make sure your resurgence is going on the tank all the time. the increased armor helps.
I personally don't agree with that spec, 1% less dmg over 4% more healing on your self?
I am running this spec and not having any issues at all. I find that the extra 8% healing on your self is way better than 1% less dmg and 15% extra push back on healing spells. I may change it to take out the extra 1% healing and put back the 75% push back.
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It may separate the good from the bad... but it also makes the good average.
As to the multi-NS during Salvation approach, the maths works out very well. Better than any of the other approaches I've seen so far.
Rejuvenate for Conveyance buff nett cost: 16Salvation nett Cost with Inner Strength and Conveyance: 64Innervate nett cost = 13Total Costs: 93Noble Sacrifice without Resplendence netts 44 force(52 + 12 regen during GCD - 20 regen over the next 10s)3 Noble Sacrifice without Resplendence nett 132 forceTotal nett force gain: 39 ForceThe nett force gain is actually comparable to some of the other approaches - but it has the advantage of allowing more heals to go to others while you're doing it and gives you some time to cast some other bubbles/heals before you could repeat it.
Importantly, you can also spread the casting of the NS to some degree. So you might cast as a rotation:
Rej >Salvation >NS >FA tank >NS >Rejuv tank >Innervate self >Free GCD > Free GCD > Free GCDThat's good because a lot of the other approaches get you too tied into long chains of casting only on yourself - taking too much time out from your primary role of healing. This way you get some DPS healing (assuming they stand in it) you get some healing to tank. You could also take out the FA on the tank and replace with a Deliverance after rejuvenate to the tank, on rotations where the FA isn't available to the tank due to immunity.
All in all, with a few free GCDs in there, this works out as a pretty much Force Neutral approach... potentially very slightly force positive, depending upon what you choose to cast and how many GCDs you leave free.
It's the first approach I've seen that really works well.
X
That is a bit confusing to me since I do not know the Jedi spells by name and what they do. Anyone able to translate that into imperial language?
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You don't need to spend all that force healing yourself because you should be using it while already in an AoE. I will use 2-3 consumptions and only need a single cast of innervate to be full HP. The key thing is to already have heals coming on you while you are using the ability. Like I said, it's a nerf, but not game/class breaking by any means. I was already using consumption without the proc before using this method pre-patch. It works. If you want to get really tricky since you're worried about math, you can also use your reusable medkit if you're concerned about saving all the force you gained. If it didn't work, I wouldn't be getting away with it like I do. And I do it all the time.
Yes, the nerfed the overall gain, but a gain is a gain. Honestly, the only difference between now and pre-patch for me is: When I fill up with Innervate, I don't get the free consumption at the end. (3rd or 4th cast at that point)
So you are saying you cast consumption without the proc that gives you the stacking debuff and then heal your self with a innervate? So - Res - Innervate to get consumption without debuff and then use consumption 2 more times to get 2 stacks of the debuff then use innervate to heal you back up to full?
After doing operations all weekend and clearing the new one on story mode I can say that the PvE healing isn't that bad, biggest thing is no true burst healing at all.
It will separate the bad vs the good on sorc healers.
Got the godly black hole boots also.
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Still a full 31 point corruption sorc.
The two biggest changes people have trouble adjusting to: DI and Consumption.
Let's start with consumption: First of all, if they were relying on the proc to use consumption pre-patch, they weren't fully utilizing the benefits of this spell. Even with the health loss, when used correctly consumption is still very valuable. In short, you need to be getting that AoE heal down as often as possible, as that is the best time to use your consumption to mitigate HP loss. Follow that up with a quick heal to top yourself and you're good to go. Of course, timing is everything, so picking and choosing your spots is critical as you don't want to be lowering your HP when you're being focused obviously. Basically, pre-patch and post-patch, I pop off consumption anytime I'm being AoE healed and not being completely focused by 3 or more players.
You do realize you just used the force you got back from consumption to top your self off so in reality you spent 42 force to gain 10 force back since 8% consumption will give you 52 force at 650 force. maybe my math is wrong?
Edit on a side note: its hard to tell whos talking about what till you read all of the post. I really don't care about PvP, but do about PvE.
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I healed story mode EC 8man last night and healing was not hard at all. PVE wise, sorcs are fine, just make minor adjustments to keep your self topped off. Now we finish fights out of force instead of mostly full force, oh well, as long as you have enough force to keep healing until stuff dies, which I did no problem last night. We downed the first boss and only attempted the second a couple times just due to time limitations. I don't foresee any issues continuing to be a strong healer in PVE.
What was the other healer?
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PvE is way more predictable
This may be true but if more than 1 person goes below 50 then as a sorc healer you are screwed.
No way to bring them back up fast enough while healing the tank at the same time. Our healing dot does very little to bosses that have continually aoe dmg to everyone including the tank and the boss is also hitting the tank. Even with a rotation one will have to die as it takes to long gdc+ability wise to get someone above 75% health.
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I've done exclusive 16s since launch. I can see how the changes would affect an 8 man op setting more though. Definitely more communication and change in playstyle would be needed.
Hopefully they do something to adjust this nightmare of healing in 8 mans, like you said it is doable but it is pretty hard. Now grant it I literally logged in 25 minutes before our operation so i had to setup the abilities, spec, ui etc.. so it was my first time playing with the changes. Maybe practice will make it better and I will get comfortable again like before then it becomes easy.
With the changes though I feel that the 60% crit on dark heal doesn't justify the cost of the ability at 42 force (some where in there) for only a 3kish heal when health pools of a healer alone is 18k+
Then having to deal with aoe dmg on top of our proc that costs health to gain force back.
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I've run up to the 2nd and stick by my opinion. Hard, but doable. I've been saving innervate for people (not tank) that go below 50%. Then resurg and toss a dark heal on another if they take damage.
I'm running 16 man and with 4 healers, i can afford to leave someone not topped off at 80-90% so that an aoe heal can top them up. I find I have to communicate more with my other healers, but that's about it.
Dark Infusion on the tank is chain cast, and stop casted if needed.
Ahh that explains it, 16 man (Story/HM) can be a bit easier than 8 man. Try 8 man healing on the 1st boss then get back to me. In 16 man you have 2 others to rely on, on 8 man you have your self and that is it since the only other healer is out of range.
I agree it is hard, but doable. It shouldn't be this hard though, it will make healers go buh bye..
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Personally, I don't feel the change is that bad (purely from a PvE stand point)
Yes, our main heals casting time was nerfed. Does that make us unviable? Far from it, instead encouraging better management of force and forcing us to learn how to predict and cast on large damage spikes.
Personally, I'm still going to be healing. Healing has been what I've done since Vanilla wow and it's not going to change. I've handled the roller coaster ride of nerfs and buffs to healers every damn game i've played and this one aint stopping me.
In PVE its much harder but manageableIf your in PVP...
forget about it.
Originally Posted by DHallerlove<snip>
In PvE, utilize revivification obviously for AoE, but it can also help you with your consumption management. Otherwise, a rotation I'd use:
Tank Healing:
-Resurgence
-Force-Bended Dark Infusion
-Innervate+Consumption
-Resurgence on YOU (the proc will still be on the tank for another 6 sec, allowing you to provide yourself a stable HoT to manage your consumption)
-Revivification near group/include yourself for hp management OR Dark Infusion
-Rinse/Repeat
Spot Healing:
Resurgence+Dark Heal+Revivification that you're already laying down. You don't need to be spending much more time than that. It is their responsibility to utilize the revivification, and your resurgence will actually do a decent job at topping people off over the course of time if you let it (don't get the urge to over spam--let the heals run their course unless death is imminent).
<snip>
cheers
DLove
Wondering if you have ran the new operation?
It is doable but if more than one person takes damage to make them below 50% while you are healing the tank since he took the same damage, the others fall even lower and when you go to cast your 2.3s big heal the others fall even further. Its near impossible to keep 3 other members up while the tank is taking a lot of damage also. We have zero burst so our heals are VERY slow and on top of this since we are healing so much and taking so much damage it is hard to get some regen back off a proc that will cost us health on top of the aoe dmg.
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My post will be about PvE healing, since they stuck all the healing into one section which means they won't read it as its all mixed in with PvP healing....
Our guild did the new ops last night, and we made it to the 2nd boss and had to call it as it was late.
Our attempt on the first boss in the new operation was a 1 shot but this is with 2 sorc healers and myself was unable to log into the game to try the healing out before our operation time.
Story Mode Ops
healers are both full rakata
After clearing the trash which I thought was pretty fun and a tad bit hard we finally made it to the 1st boss. We all read and knew what to do from a reading point of view during the fight. We had a BH tank on the left boss and a warrior tank on the right boss. The tanks swapped decently after the first few times, the dps avoided the red circles for the most part. Now to get to the healing part of the fight.
At first it was going pretty good and was easy, then all hell breaks lose and aoe dmg starts to come in and if you do not move out of the red circles as soon as they pop up you will get hit even though you have cleared them before the rock hits. During this time my group was taking a TON of dmg, I kept trying to cast aoe heals on myself and the other range BH dps but it wasn't working out so well the red circles would appear on my aoe as soon as I casted my aoe and it landed so we would miss the aoe heal, it happen 3x. With the group taking so much damage from aoe dmg and some of the red circles I had to let a melee dps die as I was already low on health and force.
I had no way of bringing up my group fast enough from all the aoe dmg as my 2.3s big heal was taking way to long to deal with the aoe dmg. The 60% crit on dark heal wasn't enough to heal the anyone enough to get them in the safe zone and I was just wasting force on a 3k heal on crit.
I am sure we didn't do the fight perfectly but it seems even in story mode you need to do the fight perfectly in order to not take extra damage. Any new guilds or any guilds that have a hard time on Hard Mode EV or KP will have huge issues with this new Operation.
Healing in PvE will need some love to make people want to heal in PvE..
The force regen ability needs to be fixed somehow to not cost health. It can be nerfed in many other ways then cost health to gain force back.
We need a better burst healing ability, once more than 1 person gets low on health its nearly impossible to bring them back up.
You can also still "double dip" but only saves you a little bit of force.
So bottom line:
can you heal in PvE? Yes
Will newly sith/sage healers have issues: Yes
Something needs to be done since a LOT more healers have tried the changes now on live and it is in fact terrible overall for PvE healing.
My thoughts on the first boss in new operation based off 2 sorc healers.
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My post will be about PvE healing, since they stuck all the healing into one section which means they won't read it as its all mixed in with PvP healing....
Our guild did the new ops last night, and we made it to the 2nd boss and had to call it as it was late.
Our attempt on the first boss in the new operation was a 1 shot but this is with 2 sorc healers and myself was unable to log into the game to try the healing out before our operation time.
Story Mode Ops
healers are both full rakata
After clearing the trash which I thought was pretty fun and a tad bit hard we finally made it to the 1st boss. We all read and knew what to do from a reading point of view during the fight. We had a BH tank on the left boss and a warrior tank on the right boss. The tanks swapped decently after the first few times, the dps avoided the red circles for the most part. Now to get to the healing part of the fight.
At first it was going pretty good and was easy, then all hell breaks lose and aoe dmg starts to come in and if you do not move out of the red circles as soon as they pop up you will get hit even though you have cleared them before the rock hits. During this time my group was taking a TON of dmg, I kept trying to cast aoe heals on myself and the other range BH dps but it wasn't working out so well the red circles would appear on my aoe as soon as I casted my aoe and it landed so we would miss the aoe heal, it happen 3x. With the group taking so much damage from aoe dmg and some of the red circles I had to let a melee dps die as I was already low on health and force.
I had no way of bringing up my group fast enough from all the aoe dmg as my 2.3s big heal was taking way to long to deal with the aoe dmg. The 60% crit on dark heal wasn't enough to heal the anyone enough to get them in the safe zone and I was just wasting force on a 3k heal on crit.
I am sure we didn't do the fight perfectly but it seems even in story mode you need to do the fight perfectly in order to not take extra damage. Any new guilds or any guilds that have a hard time on Hard Mode EV or KP will have huge issues with this new Operation.
Healing in PvE will need some love to make people want to heal in PvE..
The force regen ability needs to be fixed somehow to not cost health. It can be nerfed in many other ways then cost health to gain force back.
We need a better burst healing ability, once more than 1 person gets low on health its nearly impossible to bring them back up.
You can also still "double dip" but only saves you a little bit of force.
So bottom line:
can you heal in PvE? Yes
Will newly sith/sage healers have issues: Yes
Something needs to be done since a LOT more healers have tried the changes now on live and it is in fact terrible overall for PvE healing.
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Not sure why this got moved from the PTR forum. It belongs there.
They are just getting ready for 1.2 live next week.
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Hardmode flashpoints, Storymode EV & KP are the same tier (tionese drops, columi tokens. requires nothing) Hardmode EV, kp & story mode explosive content (new op) same tier (columi drops, rakata tokens, requires columi) Hardmode explosive content (new op) next tear (rakata drops, campaign tokens, requires rakata)
Blackhole gear is sort off a "bonus" set designed to help get the gear you're missing if you have bad luck with drops or rolls or fail ops groups
THanks all for clearing that up. It is a bit confusing.
Also thanks Iandayen for explaining it.
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Someone please explain the progression in 1.2? I am confused. I would think that the new op story mode drops either rakata or black hole gear. But it drops only rakata gear with the comms being black hole? You can get the full set of the new gear from dailies in 14 weeks or less when you are running the normal and hard mode ops of the new content.
What kind of operation progression system is this? Lazy Progression?
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I just wanted to see other peoples opinions on this topic, to be honest I'm kind of worried about this "patch" being enough for the dedicated raiding guilds to stick it out. I would hate to see guilds die out due to the lack of content for us to be busy with.
Constructive opinions are welcomed.
He does have a point, only 1 new operation that has story mode, hard mode, then what for pve op guilds? Run the content over and over for another 3 months?
Make some alts and use the legacy system that can only be used during heroic moment.
Hopefully it does not hurt them in the long run.
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Would love to see how much the sorc healer used consumption and how much damage he took. My guess in a 16 man ops the consumption doesn't have that huge of a impact as a 8 man ops would. I am a little happy to see that we can still perform but also would like to see a 8man with a sorc and a op/bh healer data.
Sorc Healing 1.2 KP Nightmare Jarg & Sorno 8man problems
in Sage / Sorcerer
Posted
The tank swap is for when the tank on Yarg gets the debuff that gives him extra damage, personally in our 8 man NiM post 1.2 we never tank swapped and it was still easy. You can purge the dot off poeple so that helps a ton, I believe what is happening is when the tank gets the debuff of extra fire damage and the dot it can do massive amount of damage but if the healer removes the dot right away the tank can stay on yarg.
First boss: no tanks , tanks use dps gear, cc adds 2 times on the 3rd time have one of the dps geared tanks pick them up till boss is dead.
2nd boss: 2 tanks
3rd boss: 2 tanks (one in dps gear but gets the adds when they come out) heal through frenzy, use 2 aoe heals on tank taking it along with res and innervate.
4th boss 2 tanks is a must, one healer on bottom and 1 healer on top(2ppl total on top, healer runs back and forth from middle to right. Lowest dps up top.). Healer on top can cast AOE heal down below to help out and for the healer to stand in to get force back. Required tank swap on high debuff count I think its 5 or 6.
5th boss: 1 tank ( mouse droids can be timed for aoe)