Ryenke
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Posts posted by Ryenke
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I'm not so Lucky and I spoke too soon. I've not acquired anything worthy since rank 216 and I'm currently 292 now.
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So it seems that I am less Lucky than everyone now.. not a happy lady.
So what are you going to do about it? BWA is convinced RNG is the way to go and seemingly more people will stay subbed to get that 'lucky streak' going again. I know some people will do so, but for those I know, and for me, the unfun, frustrating, ultimately beyond our control rng crates means an unsub. (my luck was considerably worse than what you describe, btw)
The fact is, with an RNG basis some folks will be (very) unlucky and most folks will have streaky periods of unluck. The question is does that mean more or less (un)subs? If the game lasts until a 6.0 and if the sub population still warrants development of a 6.0 -- I guess we'll see then - if 6.x has RNG more swtor playing folks are gamblers, if 6.x drops without RNG gear basis more swtor players are not having fun with a 'luck' game.
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I'm going to give you MY answer to what 5.0 did to heroics. 5.0 removed a method of allowing me to choose WHICH (near) end game gear I wanted by farming currency crystals that I could use to buy 216/220 gear when the best in game was 224. Now instead of logging in and spending some time farming crystals, I have to suffer (like everyone else) with the RNG system.
EXCEPT....now...there are plans for Operations to get the NON RNG method of gearing back (which was sorely needed) and PVP already has a NON RNG method of gearing (also sorely needed.)
The only style of play that is still NEWLY (since 5.0) limited to RNG gearing at lvl 70 is SOLO PVE.
That's what 5.0 did to heroics.
I enjoyed playing my non-raid alts and gearing them up in the crystal commendation system. Maybe FP or two to get some enhancements. Yes their gear lacked set bonus. Yes the commendation gear was not min-maxed (I usually made sure I could craft pretty good modifications to put in that slot when I bought gear). Certainly the left side of these alts had the comm/crystal gear. How did I get the crystals, often through Heroics/dailies.
Those toons (as most alt play at all) are left high and dry in 5.x - even with the 5.2 improvements. I get that people say these players/toons don't need gear, but it did give that group something to set a goal for. I enjoyed that and since there is no way to enjoy command crates - well, I think the casual group have a legitimate point when they say 5.x ruined heroics/dailies. What I think they mean is the elimination of the crystal/comm gearing system killed off any player agency and gearing control for these types of players.
I'm very glad, I CHEER, that BWA fixed the op gearing problem. I used to be a prog raider, and would still be a substitute healer if I had been able to gear that toon up in 5.x (I didn't have the rng luck to do so). So I am thrilled that problem for that group is gone.
But I played a lot of toons, many of them at the 'casual' level. (Indeed, my raid healer used to only be played for raids). And I haven't logged in in almost a week, and probably will do so only once or twice more before my sub expires in about 10 days. Why? Because 5.0 killed the game I played, and the slow response of BWA to mitigate the problem (b/c c'mon, they haven't fixed it) and the lack of mitigation for most of the casual play I enjoyed.
The 5.x fiasco helped me become uninvested in the game, and watching BWA's mismanaging and seeming lack of resources means I don't want to get reinvested in a service I don't think has long to live.
From what I can see, practically no player 'won' with 5.x. They all got shafted. Yes, cheers to the raiders! I'm glad for them, they NEEDED the fix in 5.2. But that doesn't mean that the non-raiders are happy with what they are left with.
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Indeed... we could BOTH be outliers, and good for us if so... but I reckon there is something in there "managing" the loot distribution... its not perfect, but it certainly smoothes it somewhat. For a tank/dps you have done basically the same as me, near as dammit anyway.
FYI: when I looted those 6 chest-pieces, which were virtually one after another, a couple of batches... I was looking for a chest-piece, as well as 3 other items... ok, its difficult to separate that out... confirmation bias, notable coincidence etc, but its certainly noteworthy.
The problem is we don't have any idea who is the outlier, the RNG rates being undisclosed. Are you lucky, am I unlucky?
It is hard to believe there is any protection going on when my main got to level 240 ish and had 8/14 slots filled with GC drops (purple or gold). As for dups on the purple/gold level - if you included clicky relics, I had more dups than not. But my main has never seen a purple/gold implant, Relic of SA, offhand, boots or headpiece.
And that's really the point, Lee. Opening crates containing what I got was not fun, and NOT worth paying Bioware for the privilege. So, one sub down here, the crate changes in 5.2 won't make much difference to what I saw in the crates, only a change in luck, which I don't believe in.
So, are only the people with good RNG luck (or now, operations folk - YAY for you guys, I'm thrilled y'all got reasonable raid gearing back!!
) going to stay? And when their luck turns will they find the whole thing frustrating and just unsub and look for greener pastures? -
So unless the duplicate issue is addressed successfully you can increase the drop rate all you want but if you end up with nothing but duplicate items the frustration will still be there and people will still leave.
Yeah, and some folks like me will just let our subs expire, the RNG frustration, especially the dup problem, are not addressed by these 5.2 announcements. For those of you willing to put up with GC grind+RNG - I'm happy the situation is improving. But small, even small and steady, improvements to a fundamentally broken system are just not enough for some of us.
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So, if the actual probability of getting a 242 or 248 is 1%, then the numbers would be (for getting all 14 pieces):
You have a 25% chance that it will take you ~7,800 crates
11% chance for ~9,400 crates
6.3% chance for ~11,000 crates
4% chance for ~12,700 crates
2.8% chance for ~14,300 crates
Is that right?
LOL, I'm guessing that I'd be in the 10,000 plus crate person. Seriously, I did 240ish command levels and had 8/14 slots filled. Did not have a 5.x set bonus. I'd already determined that for me not to let my sub expire, at a minimum the RNG duplicate drop problem would have to be fixed, not 'addressed', not lessened, but outright fixed.
The 5.2 announcements are indeed an improvement over previous 5.x - a big improvement. But, yeah, the RNG game is not for me. Honestly, I'd have more fun buying 15 lotto tickets a month - the 'thrill' and 'excitement' would be about the same.
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Besides.. if they get GC fixed.. then people like the guy attacking me are then going to go into full meltdown because suddenly all their earlier intense grinding is going to be investment in time that is nerfed by the fixes. ---> "Waaaah! I want my hours of play back!! Nao!! or compensation NAO!"
And, you are wrong about me, I don't think BWA can/will fix the GC mess in any meaningful way, that is why I will not be giving the company any more money. But if I'm wrong, and they do fix it (which would indeed make the last 3 months of play moot in my case) I would cheer, not complain.As promised: I CHEER BWA's announcements today. They are meaningful changes to the GC system in the proper direction. I was indeed wrong.
Me, my unsub stands, but now there is a "medium-low" chance I might consider subbing again sometime in the future.
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Although we aren't going to expose exact drop rates, I think I can add a little clarity to the relative drop rates listed above. To your point, with these new rates you will have a much better chance of getting a set bonus quality item (Artifact and Legendary) than you would one without (Prototype). Basically, at the top of a tier, majority of your items will be of a set bonus bearing quality. That is in contrast to today where at all levels, Premium and Prototype are the most likely items you will get.
-eric
Thank you for the clarification, it is good to see this feedback from BWA's side.
These changes don't do it for me, but as I said, good luck, and I'll likely check back with 6.0 to see if the game is more what I enjoy, and doesn't just lead to frustrations due to my perceived personal horrid RNG luck (which I don't foresee ever getting better).
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Hey folks,
Let’s look at a Tier 2 and 3 example. Right now this is an approximation of gear drops for the entire Tier:
- Premium (green): High drop rate
- Prototype (blue): Medium drop rate
- Artifact (purple): Low drop rate
- Legendary (yellow): Very low drop rate
After 5.2, gear drops get much better as you progress through the Tier. Let’s say you were getting close to the top of your Tier, this is what your drop rates will look like:
- Premium: No longer drop
- Prototype: Medium-low drop rate
- Artifact: Medium-high drop rate
- Legendary: Medium drop rate
As you can see from the above example, after 5.2 you will be able to get higher quality gear for your characters more consistently as you progress through each Tier.
These are the improvements we are making to Command Crates in Game Update 5.2. Let us know what you think.
-eric
The elimination of Premium from the crates would have been a welcome change for me, but the deal breaker is the unspecified RNG drop rates and no duplicate mitigation. My personal drop rate resulted in was one usable upgrade (I don't count clicky relics as anything except trash for instance) per 30 or so crates. At command level 240 ish (I think, it's been a while since I bothered) I still didn't have a 5.x set bonus and had 6 slots still unfilled and had tons of duplicates like 6 relics of the same type, 3 or 4 chests, 2 gloves, 3 or 4 ear pieces, and only one set piece drop that was higher than Tier 1.
Without some duplicate mitigation and/or some idea what the drop rates *actually* are (medium-low, Medium-high and Medium mean nothing), I have no desire to pay for a grind up to Tier 4, (and would have had no time to do so on alts).
So, good luck, I'll check back in with 6.0 maybe.
- Premium (green): High drop rate
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You forget the most obvious one: Armor Rating. Which results in Damage Reduction.
I love the evolution of the White Knight arguments: It started with
- "RNG isn't so bad, if you play even a bit each day you'll get lots of crates and have your set bonus in no time."
- Then it moved to "The complainers are just upset that they can't gear in one day anymore, GC rate and rng is fine."
- Then "You don't need gear at all unless you want to do NIM raids and ranked PVP so just GC is just a big bonus"
- Then "It's really not alt unfriendly at all, you can get multiple sets for alts if you just use legacy gear.
- Then "Well BWA fixed ops, they drop loot now, so it's just like 5.x, stop complaining folks".
- Then, "Gear up with ops and pvp - no one else needs gear and GC is just supplemental to the tokens gearing"
- Then, "well crate grind is boosted 250% so it isn't even a grind now (even though we white knights never even thought it was a grind) - I have 3 or 4 whole sets of BIS and set gear now for all my alts".
- Now, "I don't know why you are complaining over 100 more levels, it is more chances to get that supplementary GC gear and no one really needs a set bonus anyway, it's just a prestige/status thing."
Did I miss any?
- "RNG isn't so bad, if you play even a bit each day you'll get lots of crates and have your set bonus in no time."
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Yes, unknown/undisclosed drop rates and unmitigated RNG with no duplicate protection or mitigation. And you are paying BWA for that privilege!
(Un)rewarding, (un)exciting and the 'frustration' of the hunt brought to you exclusively for 15 dollars a month from those (un)inspired developers at BWA.
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Yes 24,000 CXP per hour is slow, cuz:
You need like 15-20 crates for one set piece.
No guarantee it will be what you need if not a duplicate.
That CXP per level increases as GC levels up. You wont be getting more than 2 GC levels play per hour. And that is per toon.
I was GC 45 when the 250% CXP started. Now nearly a month later I am GC 137-138, and managed a full set with UCs around mid way through (around upper 70s GG). Again, big portion of my gear is still 230, which is below bolster in PvP, after almost 2 month and 400 - 500 WZs.
A new toon will need minimum 3-4 weeks at the current rate just to get full 230. No, this is not an appropriate pace.
OR even worse. My toon was at level 75 ish when event started. The toon had 6 slots filled with Tier 1 BIS (4 set pieces) I am now at level 250 ish. I have 4 slots in Tier 1 BIS, 1 slot in Tier 2 (purple set) and 3 slots in Tier 3 (gold relic and mainhand, purple ear) 8 slots filled in 250 levels, no 5.x full set bonus and 4 slots in 230 set bonus, 4 slots in Tier 2/3. At this rate, and with the duplicates I constantly see I would be lucky to get all 14 slots filled from GC in less than 500 levels or more. And for all we know I've had good luck (better than average) with GC because BWA isn't disclosing drop rates.
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I assume from your post, Eric that you will be keeping RNG in the command crates. If my assumption is correct, will BWA provide the drop percentages that apply and some duplicate drop remediation?
If no, then I'll not be resubbing for unknown/undisclosed and unmitigated RNG ("significantly improved" or not) gear drops. My experience with your RNG drops so far tells me that it would be months more of play even at current cxp levels to get a 5.x set of "BIS" (purple or gold) in every one of the 14 slots on a single toon, {let alone the 3 or 4 toons I would want geared in at least Tier 1 starter gear at a bare minimum} (tho, If I could have legacied, I would have enough duplicate relics for every alt I ever even thought about creating) so I'll pass.
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Then you need new books pal.
Then again....since you have unsubbed.. you actually can throw all your books away and move along. My comments are for players sticking with the game in spite of the mess that is GC.
Nope, I know arrogance when I see it. And, until my sub expiry date occurs, I have every right to express my opinions on the forums.
But, an honest and serious note, good luck with the GC mess, I fear you and those sticking with the game will need the luck. And, you are wrong about me, I don't think BWA can/will fix the GC mess in any meaningful way, that is why I will not be giving the company any more money. But if I'm wrong, and they do fix it (which would indeed make the last 3 months of play moot in my case) I would cheer, not complain.
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I believe GC is a direct result of how popular the DvL event was. That "event" was nothing more than a checklist of 5-year old content that Bioware wanted you to do again for CM packs...and players flocked to it.
What was the timeline for when BWA introduced the new pack opening experience, wasn't that at the very beginning of DvL event? Cause I'd guess that this GC was in the works/being developed at the same time there are striking similarities.
Did DvL help convince BW they didn't need to add content, just package old content in a new bright wrapper - yeah, I bet it did. But if BWA developed GC after they saw DvL success then they didn't have anything in the pipeline anyway and *HAD* to put some quick crap out there.
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Uh huh....
So you do understand then.
Yes... players grinding something that is clearly broken and allowing the metrics that come from it to cloud the studios responsibility to fix this mess ===> players are complicit in prolonging this nonsense, or even convincing the studio that in spite of all the grumbling... players will embrace it and will grind it anyway.
Stop grinding it, and let the resulting low metrics speak for themselves to whoever is reading them in Austin. Of course, since to some....players are "never at fault for anything" and given grinding GC is more about "only interested in their own self interest"... I doubt many will heed the logic here.
WOW, yeah, that is arrogant almost beyond belief in my books. You are saying this, yes? : The studio messes things up, players do what they have to in order to try to get the gear they want/need to play what/how they want and therefore the players are partially to blame for the system not getting fixed by the studio that messed it up in the first place.
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OMG.. so nice of you to clip off the second half of that sentence so you could swoop and attack out of context. Wow... just Wow.
Go back and actually read the whole sentence, in context. I'm not blaming players for doing what they want to do.. I am saying that grinding aggressively on GC makes the studios analytics appear that GC is popular with players... hence that practice is compounding the problem with getting the studio to address problems with GC more quickly. So yeah.... said activity IS part of the problem with getting the studio listen. And no.. I am in no way defending the studio on GC.. so don't even start with that nonsense. GC is a mess.. and players grinding it anyway just lets the studio embrace the heavy activity on GC to indicate it's popularity (which is absurd).
Most people understand my point.. you ... you just jumped the shark and then doubled back to let the shark consume you.
Pretty sure I didn't clip anything from your post except the first para about GC is here to stay. I did add emphasis (red big) and I acknowledged I did so.
I read your whole post and believe I understood what it says. You seem to be saying since Bioware is incompetent at reading metrics properly the players are at fault when they do stuff that feeds BWA's metric reading bias.
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Why would anyone implement a system that is guaranteed to make any of its paying customers feel like that? If someone can explain it to me, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind it, because it makes zero sense to me.
Why? To quote BWA: "the Thrill of the hunt' or 'exciting' or 'rewarding'.
Why? Because I truly now believe no one at BWA understands math/statistics, game development, and/or plays SWTOR and they honestly don't realize that a player (me) who after 3 months and 250 ish command levels who has 6/14 slots still in crafted 228's/4.x set pieces or similar trash is going to feel anything other than excited to get another crate to disintegrate.
They are incompetents, they are clueless or they are deliberately trying to sink the game. Take your pick, I can't think of any other reason for the GC fiasco and BWA's unwillingness to make any meaningful changes to it at 3 months in.
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And yes, it is the USUAL. Veteran players are well aware of the behavior pattern in dealing with problems. Overkill. Massive amounts of unnecessary overkill.
Yup, overkill if it is a problem in BWA's eyes (but not the players eyes). BWA does seem to hate it when people have fun in their game that they didn't intend.
Of course if we DON'T have fun doing what BWA wants us to do then it is at best an acknowledgement and a (worthless) promise to do better soontm or a simple silence from BWA all the while letting the forum white knights tell us how "we are doing it wrong" and "the players are the problem".
Nuke Nerfs on one side, wholesale dismissal on the other.
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emphasis minesnip...
As for this silly demand for "apology"..... every change made to improve the GC experience is itself an admission by the studio that GC is not working effectively for players. So get off the "arrogance horse" here, in my view.
The bigger issue in my view is that with the number of players force grinding GC.. you are driving the wrong message through their analytics. They are going to see high energy around GC, and that will to some degree tell them it is successful.. even in the face of persistent and consistent complaints about a lot of the GC tuning and mechanics. I encourage everyone to actually think about this.. because if you grind GC aggressively.. you are part of the problem in the context of messaging to the studio as you are reinforcing their view of GC by your actions in game.
OMG, and you are calling others arrogant, telling players, who are trying to efficiently and effectively minimize BWA's bad game design decisions and deal with the fact that BWA won't make any meaningful changes to the disaster they implemented, ... you are telling these players that they are PART OF THE PROBLEM?
If asking for an apology for this crap show BWA introduced into the game is 'riding an arrogance horse' to paraphrase you, then clearly you are captain of your own arrogance rocket ship.
Hey everybody, Andryah says you are part of the problem with 5.x - not BWA's systems, not BWA's twisting every metric to see exactly what they want, YOU, playing the game the way you want to play, YOU are the problem.
Wow, that's, just wow. Blaming the players for BWA's fiasco and ongoing disgrace in the way BWA refuses to clean up their mess.
That's right folks, you heard it here. Galactic Command and the lack of meaningful fixes to it are your fault (too).
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I've gotten much more set bonus and other gear from GXP than I ever did from raiding. I got 3 pieces of boss-drop gear from raiding, and one of those only because everyone else in the raid Passed. And the crates have always given me at least one piece of statted moddable gear (or a earpiece/relic/implant), one orange shell, and chances at Jawa Junk, rep, and some other stuff. PArt of that is because GF for ops is utterly, completely, and almost totally useless for actually getting into an op (and I'm very disappointed they didn't do anything about that), but part of that is the 2/8 chance of getting anything when you dice off for it. Now, I don't have to dice off for it. They need to fix the rate of return on time invested in Ops, but by moving the primary gear gains to GC crates and removing them from the boss drops, it's supposed to fix the Loot Drama Llama. That's what they mean by saying "Ops aren't the primary gearing mechanic any more." It's specifically to make loot ninjas and the rest irrelevant - you run an op, you get a personalized drop table roll at a specific fixed rate. This is where the "good at maths, bad at people" part comes in, incidentally. They overlooked how much people hate downsides, and by smoothing the reward curve at the same time as they reduced globally the rates of return on time from the insane 4.x rates, they bought themselves a powerful lot of ill-will. I sometimes wonder if they're now deliberately trying to get rid of anyone playing prior to 3.x or so, simply so they don't have to deal with the baggage the launch design left them.
Did you ever even raid in 4.x because what you say doesn't even make sense. 4.0 raid you had at the worst a 5/8 chance (not as you say a 2/8 chance) to get a piece of gear with a PUG + guaranteed drop along the way of a purple with a usable enhancement + comms to get you gear that wasn't min/maxed, but could tide you over til you had a good raid roll. Now a pug raider has a 2/8 chance to get a drop in a raid - and that is it. (unless another boss happens to drop something random, and that, regardless of what BWA "says" the chances are, happens about 1/20 raids in my experience).
If you have had luck with GC crap crates, you are one of the lucky. Us average/bad luck folks are 3+ months in and don't have a 5.x set bonus. Sure I get the jawa junk, orange shells and rep items - and how exactly do those help me gear up? I'll clue you in, since I'm beginning to doubt you even play SWTOR or have ever run a raid... They don't.
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My gear (with mods/enhancements and dyes) was in my cargo hold (not legacy cargo hold). The mods enhancements and dyes were in my inventory on that toon when I logged in. So, some people (perhaps those who didn't have this gear stored in legacy bank?) got everything back with the change.
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I agree with you, OP.
snip...
We're more likely to seem them try and coax us into playing another Star Wars mmorpg promising that they won't do what they did this time.
You know what, an apology seemed ridiculous to me when I opened this thread, but I realized, it would take an apology AND a 2 to 3 months sub fee refund before I'd ever spend money on a BWA game again. Now I just have to convince my husband to wait til we can buy a used copy of ME Andromeda so we don't give this company or it's parent co any more money.
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That sounds about right, on average.
Without a big sample size or BWA letting us see the loot table, we can't know if OP is an outlier or close to average. Since my experience is much closer to 4% purple OR gold when you discount duplicates (command level 245ish) I tend to doubt these optimistic posts are close to "average" when they show results better than 5x greater than what I experience.
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snip...
I'd hardly call this patch "awesome."
Snip...
And can we please put the "this system allows any player to gear themselves, even casuals" idea to bed? This system rewards players who grind Master Chapters and Fractured Veteran Uprisings over and over and over until their eyes and fingers are bleeding. For casual players (and anyone else not doing those things), it's a massive grind that is more akin to a second job.
Oh, so much got to agree. Specifically in relation to casuals: A few casuals in my imp guild were just sayin how they were much happier and well geared this time last year via commendation crystals.
) going to stay? And when their luck turns will they find the whole thing frustrating and just unsub and look for greener pastures?
Tier 1 – 3 Changes Coming in 5.2
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Ryenke
Yeah, but I said I liked doing stuff to earn crystals to gear the toon. Go craft it on another toon, and then what, why play at all? I liked feeling like the toon 'earned' the next level gear when the gear level went up - I liked planning how to earn crystals and spend them. But now the toon can't, sure other alts could craft a set of gear and send it to him - but then why even bother to play?
YMMV (and I know your posts indicate that you are reasonably happy with 5.x), but 5.x killed any incentive I had to play alts and have fun. And for the record, before you start up, I'm not playing it wrong ("Josh, you're doing it wrong"... lol) I was playing the game the way I used to like to in 2.x, 3.x, 4.x and had fun. I don't find anything fun in 5.x and imo that is because the game went from an underpinning of earn gear to lotto gear.