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AdeiphoVH

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Posts posted by AdeiphoVH

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Explaining the reason one exploited is not the same as refusing to take responsibility. I have seen plenty of folks willing to take responsibility for their actions, but asking for leniency.

     

    IMO there is nothing wrong with that. I am not here to pass judgement....that is Bioware's job. I said it in the beginning....i am not sure it is wise to do nothing this time. BUT...I defer to Bioware's judgement.

     

    My issue is with those that REFUSE to take responsibility for their actions. Right or wrong does not matter...only whether or not one has the self respect to own it.

     

    If you did it, accept your fate. I support any effort to diminish any sanction you may receive if that is your cause...as long as you do not point fingers at others as the cause of your actions. You are the cause of your actions.

     

    Well dont you know everyone's fate is intertwined...its the way of the force after all...and MMO's.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    As I have said in the past, it is up to each individual to define what is right and wrong with respect to in game activities.

     

    I will not list examples, as there is no need to teach. We all likely have our own barometers in this respect.

     

    However, Bioware will most definitely determine what is "breaking the rules" and what is not. They will also decide how they choose to react to those actions that they define at their sole discretion, which is their absolute right.

     

    At one time they felt it was "breaking the rules" to wear armor that did not match your class choice. That very clearly changed at one point. They set the rules, period.

     

    Players will continue to try and stretch the boundaries of those rules, as most players are competitive and intuitive to some degree....that means finding any advantage you can within a rule set, avoiding sanction in the process.

     

    If they determine this was breaking the rules, as opposed to simply an action they did not intend, that does not mean they will sanction accounts....but it is certainly possible they will.

     

    If you engaged in risky behavior....behavior that was contrary to design, which should have been obvious, you ran the risk of possible sanction. One has to own that. However, morality does not play into it IMO.

     

    Here it is more likely what is fair, not what is right or wrong...and Bioware will determine that.

     

    One thing is for sure.They did not intend this action. How they move forward is entirely up to them.

     

    They didn't intend this action, but left it open for it to be exploited for a month and a half. Negligence on both sides, players and devs. But devs dont pay there own salary.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Actually we don't want or need his kind. I don't want to be "carried" through raids or HM's and I don't have to be. If you're so leet, please, move on to a game more your liking. I might as well, thanks to people like you.

     

    I didn't cheat. Didn't eventhink about it. Matter of fact, when I saw it was possible I got so angry I didn't play for 24 hours. I know full well others got rich and got gear. Now those people sit nicely geared claiming they are "carrying us? With what? Stolen cars? All I gotta say is you deserve, nor do you get, any respect from me.

     

    Like it or not at some point you didnt know the Operation or HM fights, and someone who was more knowledgeable showed you the way. Just because people can clear an Op's doesn't mean they exploited at all. Even if it is buggy as ****, and if you really dont understand how buggy it is go try to run it, cuz remember you dont want to be carried.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Been following this for few days with some interest. Yes, I will hold my hand up and admit, I am in the guilty camp. I looted Ravagers.

     

    Three years subbed. Spotless standing with BW. Never one reprimand or report. Not a scolding, never an abusive action again any fellow player. I good supportive active player.

     

    You find yourself in a Guild and the raid leader divulges to a few members, that there is a loophole in an instance in which you can get gear drops. You say “What is this Witchcraft?”

     

    And you go and pick up loot, and think... “Damn! OK, **** it. I've pissed millions of credits on repair bills due to broken content. I can't do 1/3 of the expansion due to issues that are driving me insane. **** it.”

     

    Then you wait for Tuesday... “Surely they are going to put a stop to this? There's people *********** QUEUING outside the Operation entrance, en-mass!”

     

    Nope, they let it go for another week. Then post on the forums about reprimanding players. It honestly feels like 'entrapment'.

     

    Those that didn't 'exploit' that are calling for bans are sorely mistaken if they think that it will have any positive effect on this issue what-so-ever.

     

    Because quite frankly, the vast majority of those that took advantage are long standing, subscribers with spotless records that got carried away with a means of gearing themselves to attempt new content that they couldn't get their heads around because it was broken!

     

    They 'we' are not devious, hacking, game braking, PvP trolling evil doers and not having us in the game is not going to be good for the community at all.

     

    It'd be a sad day in SWToR hell when the Carebears calling for everyones heads on sticks (ironic really they are so cute and fuzzy.) realize that since everyone that was banned are the ******es carrying them through raids so they can enjoy the content too and now they can't do it. Gear doesnt mean **** to me when I am leading a raid, if its a goddamn face roll all I care about is if you have any *********** manners. Now that the Carebears have shown how little they think of the people carrying there fluffy asses through raids they can go **** themselves. If everyone that did the exploit gets banned, they can Go **** Them Selves.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Max, I think you're being a bit too unfair. Most are attempting to come at this game from the perspective of gamesmanship, because well it is a game and gamesmanship is the very definition of in-game conduct. In it's purest form, gamesmanship _IS_ the practice of winning a game or contest by doing things that seem unfair but that are not actually against the rules. The key thing is this game does have rules and exploiting is against them. So, on it's face exploiting is against the rules and therefore out of bounds as a method for trying to win while playing it. I think that's where nearly everyone you describe in your circular reasoning example is coming from.

     

    I will take a slightly different attempt; I could give a crap about the morality that may be involved. But then, I acknowledge that containment through secrecy is one of the most powerful defenses a game developer may have in fighting exploits so I think one of the absolute worst classes of people are the ones that communicated the exploit. Call it the "snitches get stiches" position.

     

    Exploits are bad for us all, because it circumvents the game's designed, planned, executed, and intended life cycle. MMORPG's are a highly competitive market, and SWTOR, to tremendous media coverage is in that competition. MMORPG's stem from a long history of digital RPG gaming; in fact this very game has been marketed as the thematic, if not direct 3rd through 10th sequels to a single-player RPG KotoR.

     

    There are several things that differentiate mmorpgs from single-player rpgs; it's all there in the letters. This game is online. There is an ongoing need to pay the bills. This game doesn't involve a single-purchase and install. It requires a tremendous infrastructure to support. That's where we get to the lynchpin of mmorpgs: the content cycle. Like it or not, what drives success in mmorpgs is a steady stream of content; this is the tradeoff. People pay to support the game -- beyond a single boxed purchase. And so, people expect a continued return. Broken content cycles fail games.

     

    What an exploit of this nature does is artificially expedite that content cycle. The outlier is the coordinated hardcore raider. They are progressing in content most nights, and then as they clear and formulate strategies, repeat with their Alts. They drive the end-game, and "beat" it quicker than most. They gear out main toons in completing and quickly gear out alts because they've mastered the strats and all are coordinated. In the case of the beginning of this exploit, there was only one team -- one team in game that had the achievement. Not everyone was at that point, and so all raiding teams were striving to get to that point and earn the rewards. That takes work. It's fun, it's exciting to clear progression. It is one of the major play styles that this game caters to, like it or not. Not every team is so coordinated to clear lockouts for the whole group on 2 or 3 or 4 alts a week. So, the natural cycle to even progress, and clear bosses, and then gear up an entire team is a natural duration. Then comes the gearing up of alts that extends this natural cycle further. What the devs do then is target the content cycle for when most of the regular -- not the top raiders in the world -- teams complete the content.

     

    What the exploit does is shorten that cycle. Then once people have won, and won on all the toons they feel they want to. They will leave the game until the next content -- IF a new bright, shiny object hasn't taken their attention first. This game has experienced that cycle, and to all our detriment.

     

    Why does this matter to anyone? Because there's another important letter: the "m" for multiplayer. If everyone leaves -- or as people have said, if everyone is banned for breaking the rules -- then there won't be any game to play at all; or rather the play experience for likely everyone would be impacted. Take another approach: end-game raiders share a greater than average percentage of subs, which is one the most desirable revenue stream EA wants for its recurring predictability. If 10%-15% of the player base up and leaves from boredom or rules enforcement actions, YOU and I are likely also be impacted by that result.

     

    So what you are saying is, We are all ****ed.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    To paraphrase Guardians of the Galaxy:

    Guard 1: He says it's called "RaiderGate."

    Guard 2: Who calls it that?

    Guard 1: Mainly himself.

     

    You didn't need to be a raider or even know a raider to do the exploit, you only needed to have the SoR expansion, have a subscription or ops pass, and know someone with the lockout.

     

    you misquoted me, I said S Hit storm.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Guessing that he/she has reached the point where dealing with the system quietly isn't working, so might as well make a scene in front of as many players as possible and hope that the embarrassment and shock value will be enough to get those in the system to take the problem seriously and fix it.

     

    It's a good strategy.

     

    it is, but then BioWare will just give a forum ban to whoever does it. Its against the TOS...I got in trouble for it once.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I must agree with this last paragraph. It is because of this that I don't really attack anyone from either side of the fence. But I would encourage owning your actions. I owned my actions, and have no regrets in doing so.

     

    I cleared the raid. Come at me Broette.

    Just because someone is in 192's doesnt make them a cheater. I won me the **** out of some loot rolls boiiii 2 92 rolls and an 86.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    A great German comedian once said: "everything has been said, but not by everyone", so here goes. :D

     

    I can't really judge the exploit as it is forbidden to even discuss details after it was fixed - which is kind of silly as I see it but... well. So everything following now is based on an assumption what the exploit is, if I am wrong, well, then I am wrong and will not be making much sense. ;)

     

    Now based on the few things I learned you merely needed to zone in after being invited to an ops group and loot. So if that is correct: then using it does not constitute any violation as I see it, because nothing was done differently to what you usually do. Of course it might be (or maybe should be) considered bad style, but that's about it.

    Same goes for the Nefra-Bug, btw., or the TC-Glitch with hiding healers or... you name it.

     

    Did I do it? No. You can check my chars and will not find any Ravagers achievements or 192 gear (well, just a few items, and no chests).

    Would I have done it? Maybe. As I don't see it as cheating or even exploiting, but merely a shortcut.

     

    If you start going down that path you might as well start thinking about forbidding datacron-hunts (Rishi, Balmorra, Tatooine pulls...), even HK-part calls (calling out in public when you are close...), replacement in ops for last boss, or whatever there is. Of course the degrees vary, but if "interpretation" or "degree" matters, than you open a can of worms.

     

    You want to hunt witches? Then better hunt PVP-exploiters (that really hurts others, namely the competition), or those GTN-heros messing with numbers to rip off buyers who fail to see and fall victim to sorting issues with GTN. Those guys really affect other player's experience directly.

     

    and unfortunately BioWare's Containment of this **** storm we call RaiderGate is failing at epic proportions. Arguments in Gen Chat on planets that have strongholds, on the fleet. This inaction continues to polarize the community, and will continue to do so long after punishments are doled out.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    So are they going to fix Underlurker yet or are they just spending all of their manpower on this? After trying Underlurker again it still appears to be glitched.

     

    Seriously why not just focus on issues that are still present instead of looking over people who took part in a silly bug?

     

    Dont you know, they only have 10 people in the office now.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    You're right, I did assume guilt based upon the abrasive and accusatory tone of his post. I'll certainly apologize if I was wrong.

     

    So, Jayris, what's the deal... did you participate in the exploitation or not? Inquiring minds would like clarification please.

     

    well, since everyone else in this thread is throwing out legal terms I will too. 5th Amendment.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    The expansion had just gone live, and there was very limited end game content available. Their choices were to either leave it open and trust players to do the honorable thing, or shut it down and listen to the chitstorm of whining about Lv60's having nothing to do. Beyond that they even allowed players to run Lv55 ops and receive ultimates, but the players still took advantage of the situation. Bioware did what they could, regardless of whether we feel the amount of available content was sufficient. Could they have done more? Probably, but that still doesn't excuse the conduct of the individuals involved.

     

    its better to have a small *****torm of people complaining they cant do the content than the massive fan which had the proverbial **** thrown into it multiple times like we have now.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    You should raise a ticket :D

     

    HAH! Why would I put in a ticket? The last 2 that I put in had valid claims only to be responded with answers that were copy pasted and didnt pertain to the question I had asked at all. Not only do they not read the tickets they don't send there automated bots to send you a copy paste message fast enough either.

    Ravagers Exploit Action Update

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    No arguments that have no basis in fact? Forums would be damn near empty without those. ;)

     

    Seriously... everyone needs to take a breath... I think its all been said. From all sides.

     

    We all have our opinions... I think its time we start having fun again. Bioware is going to do what they are going to do.... nothing we post here will make a difference.

     

    I do think points should be awarded for ForumPvP tho.

     

    Be it as it may, sub is ending in 5 days, I don't think I am going to resub because all the constant bugs in every facet of the game, whether its PvE, PvP, Glitching or what the **** ever. Its ******** that we continue to put up with a game that has as many bugs as this does and has had since launch.

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