TripleCharged
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Posts posted by TripleCharged
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I am leaning towards guardian based on what I have seen.
The things i like about my sentinel that I feel i would miss are Rebuke and cauterize. I was also looking at level 50 stuff and the sentinels get a lot of focus helpers from the other 2 trees, do guardians get anything like that helps with focus regen? Because the sentinels get a few centering boosts which the shii-cho form uses to regenerate focus, along with reducing the cost(sort of) of slash/blade storm.
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Solution:
Nerf Operatives!
That is a possible solution, the classes can just be weakened.
People say that the DPS of the stealth classes is low, which is just totally false. A shadow can easily pull top dps in an operation without stealthing at all. Soundrels are not quite that strong but are not as weak as people seem to think.
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Leaving two people to guard a point is unnecessary except to avoid stealthers. One defender can hold a point against non stealthers if they call out properly and are paying attention. Stealthers however force you to have 2 people defending which in most cases means that if your team is the one who does not have the third point you will only have 6 people attacking the point which is usually not enough because of respawn times. People always say in the forums that you should have two defenders but it never works out that way, even in premades. It is almost always one defender unless you have a teammate who has given up and is just defender farming. Many times I have seen a point with one defender and gone to help defend and when I show up they leave even if I ask them to stay. All of what I am saying applies to regular warzones not ranked. In ranked you actually need to have proper strategies but in regular that is not the case. The ability of stealthers to exploit a bad team is game breaking when it comes to regular warzone matches. You can have a team that is good at slaying/healing/guarding but if they do not apply proper strategy in a pug match that does not necessarily make them a bad player.
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One of the major problems I have with this is that stealth classes are not just a hard counter for many classes, they are an Absolute counter for them in many situations, and many of these situations are game deciding points. Gunslingers are great at what they do which is just doing damage to people who are not paying attention and keeping them away from the gunslinger so they can continue that, but that is not an absolute counter to any class, except maybe a marauder/jugg in open flat ground with no hiding positions, but that does not have any significance on the outcome of a match, just that one fight. When a stealther shows up at a point and mezzes the defender and captures the point, that could be the difference between a win and a loss. There was nothing that defender could have done, the stealther showing up so close does not give the defender enough time to call out to teammates, even if they are in voice chat. When a normal player attempts to capture a point, if the defender is paying attention they can call out to their team and have them come and assist, so that even if the defender does lose the fight hopefully their team has sent someone to help.
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I would like to start PVPing as one of these two and am wondering which class should be better for PVP. I have a level 18 sentinel and like it I am just wondering what some of the major differences are. One reason I am thinking about switching to guardian is because of the taunts. Those get you and easy 2-4 medals per match without any major damage loss. And I would like a lot of this to be geared towards end game Elite War Hero geared characters because that is what I want to end up with. The lowbie PVP is not so important.
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The OP has been extremely succesfull so far :
- Ignoring every advice,
- Going on whining,
- Etc...
Let's just admit we've been succesfully trolled... And just stop feeding him once and for all...
I admit, you successfully trolled me...
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Oh it's so amazing to kill a sniper and he can do nothing... I come out from stealth using spike, force shroud and my rotation, stun him for 4 secs and Assassinate, sniper down in 4~5 secs.
On my scoundrel, shoot first !! Oh god, I can't explain how good I feel to put a sniper on the ground and kill him in 1 stunlock, and he can do nothing because I have all the counter-tools for their defensive cooldowns.
On my marauder I can try, but the sniper have all the counter-tools against me. This is why I play a Scoundrel and Assassin, just to kill snipers.
Perfect description of why those 2 classes are unbalanced. There should not be a situation in a game where one class will be gauranteed to win if they are just half decent. That is not balance at all.
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First off know how you counter stealthers on the new map? Have 2 people defending, boom problem solved. Also anybody showing up to any unguarded node can cap it easily not their fault you're a moron and decided to leave it unguarded to go medal farm. Also two stealthers against one defender has always been a guaranteed node capture on every map but you see they actually have to be organized to do it so it won't happen in pugs.
Also I've read this entire thread up to this point and have come to the conclusion you're a bad player because you're not very bright. I've come to this conclusion due to many things I've seen from your unwillingness to learn when people offer you answers and you're unwillingness to try and learn on your own by playing the classes that are beating you a bit. First off I got my *** royally handed to me once by an ataru form using mara, I had no idea what he did to me only that he hit me harder then I'd ever been hit before so I came to the forums and made a thread, that thread wasn't nerf the ataru form spec it was can anybody explain to me how a marauder in ataru form did this damage to me? I got an answer right away and now know to look for gore when they apply it and to have a stun or knockback or any escape mechanism ready for it at all times, I also then went and created a sentinel so I could read all the abilities in that tree so I knew exactly what they are capable of and to get a bit of a feel for their playstyle. That is the proper process to go through when you are getting owned by a class.
If you ever played sports at a competitive level you'd know the key to winning isn't just to focus on your teams strategy and your play but to also know your opponents, what they are good at, what their tendancies are and to be able to recognize a situation developing long before it happens. These are applied in videogames as well when playing against other people. Scouting reports on the other teams players just become knowing their classes and what spec does what well and what badly. Being aware goes from seeing the play develop to any number awareness things in this game for one stealth based example in civil war say you're guarding either mid or the other teams natural node, you can see right into their speeder landing area now most stealths when they land will stealth right away but they'll usually take a few steps towards the node they are planning on going to before stealthing, aslong as you are looking in there you now know which node they are going to attack.
Also you need to get out of the single player game mindset where you are an unkillable god and if something kills you it must be broken, this is going against other people and you know what you aren't special, nobody is special there are going to be people that are better then you or are built to counter you and just because you want to be able to swat them all away like flies doesn't mean you are going to.
In short your issue is your unwillingness to learn.
All these lrntoplay accusations are just unfounded. When someone suggests something I have either responded with "already tried that" or "ill see if it works" or, "I do not play my vanguard", since that is what most peoples responses have been towards. And suggesting to me to play a stealth class does not help me because, as I have stated before, I can not play in that mentality, and the lowbie Scoundrel that I dd have I could pretty much roflstomp any class 1v1 if I stealthed over to them. When I play this game and die because the player was better then me, that is acceptable, but when I die because that is the way the game is designed, that pisses me the **** off. If they designed the game so that a stealther can easily knock out any solo player, that is broken and needs to be fixed. When they did an update they said that they recognized that stealth does not play the role they intended(aka singling out and slaughtering people) and that they were trying to make it more team focused, but that seems to have failed miserably. When I get killed by a marauder who lept to me and derpsmashed me that pisses me off as well because it is essentially like a stealther popping out of stealth, but there are possible ways to defend against it every time. There is very little skill in being a stealther and waiting for a target to walk by or choosing one on the sidelines healing or RDPSing. Obviously there is skill in being able to control your opponent properly and kill them fast enough.
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I actually heard someone on my team call out for an 1 incoming the other day, and I told him I was OMW while someone else said "You win that 1 on 1, son." or along those lines. I don't get that mentality. Sure; they could win the 1 on 1, but it still is safer for me to follow up and ensure they did. After I showed up and killed the attacker, the guard took the time to tell us he was full recruit so it was a good thing I went.
There's been plenty of times where I call the incoming as soon as I see the enemy at a distance and still can start fighting them at 35m and have them dead before help arrives, but no point taking that chance. It is easier to defend any node in this game rather than have to take it back.
When I am defending I do attempt to stall, but with stealthers there is not enough time. If they are good they will have you dead long before your team is anywhere near assisting you(if they even responded). But with that in mind you feel that it is balanced that you are nearly guarenteed a death just because that person was a stealther? That is just plain lack of balance.
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You playing against a terrible defender does not point out anything OP about stealthers. Without stealth, I have walked up to somewhere like mid in CW and capped the node behind 5 enemy players in sub-50, who were busy fighting the rest of my team. Grant it, stealth makes it easier to get there undetected, but you have to unstealth to cap, and capping does take some time. If you sit there in stealth trying to do that when the enemy shows no signs of being un-alert though, you are wasting your time and a spot in the warzone for your team.
When it comes to stealing points I am not talking about the person not responding to me capping, it is about how easily i can kill them then take the node, it is a joke. Ive taken on level 49's with expertise as my crummy scoundrel and they just do not have a chance, one of the only ways to counter it is to have the defender be stealthed. Which doesn solve the problem at all because an operative stealthed fighting an unstealthed scoundrel is just stupid as well. Which brings up the fact that stealthers also excel at defending a point because when that person tries to cap it they get stunned and brought down just like a stealther preying on an unstealthed defender. The only chance the unstealthed offender has against the stealthed defender is getting lucky with an AOE to pop them out or getting lucky with spotting them.(notice both are luck based)
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What are you talking about ??? For most situations you get no defender points so it gets unguarded ? Well would you rather loose the game by being petty and only doing things that reward medals ?
That's actually what will make you loose the game, this attitude you have.
It's not about defender point, it's about tactic, and likely won't happen everytime ?
Well welcome to meta-game...
The more these last few second caps happen, the more teams will leave a stealther near the node to ensure the crediting.
I know I, as a stealther, already always sacrifice myself to guard it and always wonder why noone is coming to try to cap at last second... To the point I think I may have missed something...
You have demonstrated throughout this whole thread you have absolutely no clue about PvP, about tactic, about metagame, about teams, about learning, well about almost *everything* PvP related...
It's all 1v1 for you, and medals and scoreboards.
No wonder you have problems with stealthers...
I attempt to guard it but as a fresh 50 in mostly recruit gear I get inst killed by any stealther, and even when I call out for help no one even attempts to show up. If I was a stealther I would spend time defending it because it is important but in a pug group more then likely no one is going to care. And for me I might as well stop defending because without my full elite war hero set the only reason I am playing so much PVP is so that I can earn my full elite war hero set and do much better.
Well now that the obvious is out of the way...That change you speak of would absolutely cripple all of the assassin specs outside of darkness. Deception heavily relies on stealth and madness is one of the squishiest class in the game.
It is like you ignored my first sentence when you wrote this response.
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Yet you make it sound so easy when you ask for a nerf.
Are you able to go solo cap and steal the side nodes on one?
Have you seen what messes you up when you do find a target?
I can easily walk over and steal a point lol.
It's like lifting candy of a table. Obviously this is sub50 pvp but my character was barely 20 before I deleted him and I could steal any point from one defender.
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I think you need to go roll a stealth class. Think it was suggested to you before, but I am not saying it to troll. You really could use an understanding of their mechanics. It could help you counter, as well as actually have an idea of what can be changed. Right now you seem to willing to whack em without any regard to how it actually would affect the play of the classes.
I have attempted to play a stealth class and I just can not. I do not have the mentality of choosing my fights and waiting around for opportunities to arise. I just jump in and damage things. Yes, i try to be choosy about who I am fighting and how i fight them but I dont sit in a corner and wait for someone to walk by or pick out a weaker target in a group that is farther away.
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I do not feel like going through every page of this thread. What are your proposed "fixes" you wish to make to the stealth classes.
I am not a developer so I can not even try to comprehend how to balance it properly, but one change I can think of is making it so while stealthers are stealthed, their cooldowns to not go down. So that if they do want to hide and wait for cooldowns they will have to be unstealthed and it will extend the time that they have to wait between each insta-gib.
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Well no... Actually NO : because if a team has the possibility to sacrifice one stealther to cap THEN the other team ALSO has the possibility to sacrifice a stealther to guard the node.
Try again...
In a ranked match this would make sense.
But if you read my entire statement you will see you do not get defender points for guarding a pylon so for most situations it will be unguarded. And this is still a very specific tactic so it likely wont happen everytime.
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So this is another nerf operatives thread right?
Not specifically, this is a fix stealth thread, as the title clearly states.
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Nobody can stun you while stealthed. They can stun you from stealth, after which they lose stealth.
As for getting 50% of your health taken away, part of that is gear, part of that is you not knowing how to kite, and part of that is you not using your cc breaker at the right time. Ops front load their damage so CC break asap if you're in BM. Shadows/sins are back loaded damage and extremely predictable. If you use your CC breaker on spike then yeah, you're going to lose a ton of health when they stun you after. Finally, you probably suck at using your kbs--don't spam it like a retard as soon as you take damage, position yourself so that you knock them into hazards or other players.
~Eggs
Edit: how the fark is this 13 pages...
Everything you stated I do properly every time. Obviously sometimes I **** it up and suffer because of that but when I do everything properly and an assassin or op can keep me controlled as I attempt to stun and run that is just broken. And I guess you have never heard of a mez... If you do know what they are, Yes, i do not break a mez.
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With the new warzone one stealther can completely null the other teams points at each pylon explosion by stealth capping the point. Yet another reason why stealthers need to be fixed in this game. And all it takes is 2 stealthers 2 guarentee a capped point now. And because you do not get defender points for guarding a pylon people are not motivated to even attempt to defend it so a stealther showing up to an unguarded place can easy cap without the other team having any possibility of reacting. Anyone who thinks stealth in SWTOR is balanced is just being ignorant or just completely stupid.
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Wait until 1.6 when you can buy the warhero with warzone and then upgrade what you get to elite warhero with the rated comms.
So is battlemaster going to be removed?
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So I am about to hit level 50 and have 4500 Ranked Warzone comms and 2750 regular.
I was wondering what the best choice is to use these comms.
I am a DPS Sage. With the new elite warhero tier coming out soon I am thinking it would be best to get 1 Warhero Mainhand and 1 War hero offhand then get some battlemaster armor pieces. And then when possible get 1 War Hero relic of Boundless Ages because they are great for PVP and PVE.
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It can't exist. Out of stealth stuns are just the same that the other Advanced Class also gets.
If you don't have any problems with CC from Sages/Sorcerers and Snipers/Gunslingers, then you can't have problems with stealthers since it's the same stun they use.
I worde that wrong, I meant a stun that pops the stealther out of stealth.
Whatever operatives shotgun blast is I think. Its one of the stuns they have to be in stealth for but its not an 8second mez.
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So you can beat the bad stealthers (aka your counter classes aka you are better than them) but you cant beat the good one (aka they are better than you) so the classes are overpowered.
Its nothing personal and I'm sorry if my comment hurt you but the post I quoted was sent by the super amazingly retarded side of your personality.
You clearly stated that you can beat some because you are better then the,=m and cant beat some because they are better than.
Have you ever played any sport? If the answer is yes, I bet every player/team that was able to beat you/your team were all cheaters
I was never good at any sports I played so when I lost is was my fault.
When I get killed by someone simply because they have a class that sucks at everything except trying to kill me that is just dumb. Every class should be able to counter every class. My gunslinger doesnt excel at any specific class, it excels at putting out amazing dps on people. If that person decides to come and kill me I have a few escapes and stuns but for the most part I am just meant to DPS. If a melee person walks up to me and I do not move, they will kill me because that is what they are good at. But as a good player I know how to get away from them, but they still accomplished their goal of getting me out of that battle. I hate it in games when I get killed by something that I have no control over. And having a class that is made to simply kill me and be annoying is just dumb. Stealthers have no real roles other than stealth capping from newbs and singling out weak enemies to kill them. Their purpose may be helpful in some situations but it is annoying having anything in game that makes me die just for playing a class I want to play.
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The scoundrel/operative, like most other class, can use two abilities to incapacitate their opponent before full resolve is achieved.
Let's go with a scoundrel and your gunslinger for example.
You happen to be standing at snow on Civil War, within 10 meters of the node. I check out your position with "Sneak" enabled (+15 to stealth level)
----The reason that sneak is enabled is to make sure I'm not visible to any potential stealth guards----
When I note that you are indeed by yourself I move into position behind you. (So I don't get seen, obviously)
I decide to go for the ninja cap so I ensure I can reach both you and the node. Now comes the "OP" part.
Scenario 1: I sap you for 8 seconds (Out of combat ONLY this can't be used in most group situations), you panic and break CC. I sap you again (Filling your resolve bar), instantly start capping the node. Game over.
Scenario 2: I sap you for 8 seconds and start capping. You break out and I flashbang you (Full resolve). Node is capped again, game over.
Scenario 3: I sap, start capping, you wait it out and save your breaker. I was too slow on the sap/cap and you manage to interrupt. I flashbang (Full resolve) and you break out. I am now down to dirty kick (4 second hard-stun) or using my disappearing act so I can sap you again. (Neither can be done until your resolve goes back down) So now I'm out of stealth (preventing my opener) and you have full health and full resolve. Unless you're an idiot or I make a mistake you win.
Scenario 4: The same as scenario 3 except I happen to be fast enough to take the node. What's the lesson here? Don't stand where a stealther can sap + cap. Change your position and you prevent any form of node stealing.
Any two stun/mezz abilities will fill your resolve all the way. It could be Sap + Flash, Sap + Opening knockdown, Sap + Dirty Kick, Opening Knockdown + Dirty Kick. Anyway you arrange it, it still fills resolve 100%
Please don't try telling people that stealthers resolve is broken. You want a broken resolve ability? Check the sorc/sage telekinetic/lightning bubble. Up to 12 seconds of HARD STUN can be achieved if the timing is right while two 4 second stuns from ANY OTHER class fill resolve.
And yes, we can hurt you bad in our opener but guess what? That's our job! (Going for the gunslinger here) If there were no stealth classes you could kill EVERY opponent who tried to reach you. Between the roots, knockbacks, flashbang, immunity to leaps (and stuns if you use your 20 second entrench) and excellent damage there would be few fights where you would lose. Counting the fact that all of the stuns got reduced to 10 meters further cements why stealth NEEDS to exist.
As a scoundrel my two targets are unbubbled sorcs (Because those damn bubbles eat up my opener and can stun me) and snipers (I can dodge and cleanse their attacks PLUS get up close without being seen). I can tear those classes apart quite easily. But you know what? I've still been killed by them when they play smart. If they can outlast the first 10-15 seconds of a fight then I lose.
Taking stealth out of the game because you don't want to figure out HOW to counter the class is sheer laziness on your part. There have been TONS of good suggestions in this thread and you seem to ignore them so you can continue whining about something that isn't even an issue.
I made a thread a few months back about Pyrotechs vs. Scoundrels. In there I had a short rant about how tough pryos were to kill. They had 30 meters on their stun, incendiary round, and thermal detonator. A scoundrel out of stealth was easy pickings for a pyrotech.
You wanna know the difference between your thread and mine? I asked people for help on taking Pyros on, I asked for strategies and weaknesses...and I LISTENED to their suggestions. I followed advice from other people, I rolled a Pyrotech myself to see how the class worked. I found out everything I could about that class and guess what happened? I got better.
All you seem to be wanting to do is complaining about something you refuse to understand. And until the time comes that you actually WANT to learn how to beat stealthers..well... you're just going to be one of the easiest kills in PvP.
You seemed to focus on the stealth cap. That is not as big of an issue, I am not dumb enough to advertise my position and stand on top of the node like most players. If it is civil war I stand on the steps hiding myself from potential opponents and giving my self the ability to interrupt the stealther as they attempt to cap it. My issue is when you said
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Any two stun/mezz abilities will fill your resolve all the way. It could be Sap + Flash, Sap + Opening knockdown, Sap + Dirty Kick, Opening Knockdown + Dirty Kick. Anyway you arrange it, it still fills resolve 100%The opening knockdown hits and me seems to give me less than 20% resolve, then as I stand back up they usually apply another stun before that initial one runs out, still not full resolve. If I break that one and dirty kick immediately they may or may not break it. I am dirty fighting So if I see them not break it I apply my shrap bomb+vital shot removing Flashbang from my CC's because it will break it nearly instantly. If I hunker down at this point my health is so low and they are so close they can kill me with just their blaster if they want to. There are scenarios with bad stealthers that I kill them easily because they are just poor players, but a good stealth player can insta-gib any gunslinger and that is just outright broken. I realize that your class is supposed to counter mine, but counter it so well to the point that I CAN NOT defend against you it breaks the game. And even If I do manage to get away stealthers have enough slows/roots that I will not get very far until they slow/root me which is uneffected by resolve.
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lol wut? 2% resolve and your stun fills 80%...interesting hard data indeed. So If you don't mind me asking, what stun that these dirty stealthers have at there disposal that only fills 2%?
"gives me like 2% resolve"
It was sarcasm. A stun out of stealth that knocks me out for 4 seconds seems to give me less than 20% resolve.
Stealth Classes are UnBalanced
in PvP
Posted
A gunslinger/sniper is avoidable. Simply run away and do not engage. When a stealther attacks you it forces the engagement and will 100% everytime get you out of the battle, whether it is forcing you to attack said stealther or forcing you to run away.
And you said it your self you do not have much of a problem with gunslingers unless it is a very specific location and situation.