Azterion
-
Posts
40 -
Joined
Content Type
Forums
Blogs
Events
Articles
Downloads
Gallery
Posts posted by Azterion
-
-
I'll take Sephi, talk about easy to do
That's another great suggestion! And speaking about pointed eared species: I'd love to see the near-human species that Fay was a member of. Basically Star Wars Elves.
-
I setup my "alien" legacy and frankly there's no point to having a species other than looks. I say give us more lore items and options for what we have now!
More lore items and options would be a great addition to the game, but so would new races and looks. There's no reason we can't have both.
-
The "classic" criteria for a SPECIES to be included:
* Must speak Basic.
* Must be about human size and about human proportions.
* Must look reasonable kissing any romance / flirt target.
Additional items that are probably included, but I can't find any real evidence for:
* Should have human-like facial features. (An alternative formulation of the romance thing, I guess.)
* Should not reduce vast chunks of the game's dialogues to gibberish. This specifically excludes Voss and Gormaks. "You are not Voss". Um. Yes, I am. "Outsiders are not allowed in the Proving Grounds" Um. That's OK then, you can see that I'm a Voss. "Voss is a strange planet that nobody knows about." Um. I'm *FROM* Voss, of course I know about it, and I don't need your poxy permits and clearances to go there.
* Should not require funky vocoder effects.
* Should not require heavy re-work of armour and weapon fits.
Please don't make excuses for the devs.... Posts like these are really a pet peeve of mine because it just sounds like a lapdog preaching their master's word in subservient fashion. Most of those races work and are already in the game, and they can always change up their original rules if players want to play races with subtitles, like Wookies. Personally, I just want a Nautolan, which is easy to add because they match up the all the criteria, but I'm sure other players would greatly appreciate and understand what they're getting into by adding gibberish language over the current soundfiles. Bio only setup those rules because they believed that players wouldn't want to have to read all that dialog in subtitles and constantly hear gibberish languages, but many fans are telling them "Hey, we don't mind that for certain races". I certainly wouldn't care for that, but a TON of fans would. I doubt anyone plays the game for hot Wookie sex, so I don't think they'll care about the romance at least until a new expansion with new content comes out. And yes, there are neutral versions of conversations already in-game that are platonic. So let's let the fans decide what they want, stop making excuses for the devs, and play some Star Wars.
-
Hands down have always wanted to play a kel-dor jedi. Have always been fascinated by them, though I fear there would not be enough customization options
They are a great choice with a rich cultural background of seers and naturally gifted force wielders. Plo Koon was always a wise mentor figure in Clone Wars too, so I can see why you'd love them. I'm sure they'll come up with multiple skin colors, patterns, and mask types. They may not have hair, but their face shapes are easily to manipulate into multiple types. If they don't wanna do it, I'll draw them some ideas for free lol. I hope you get that race, because they're a fantastic choice.
-
The Defel. I want them in. I would race change my BH so fast if they were introduced.
Haha, yes! Good choice!
-
Nautolan… Rodian… Kel Dor... still hoping…
Same here, man. Way overdue.
-
The question really isn't what they can do but what they feel will give the best return on investment.
It's also not as simple as you might think to be adding this stuff. You are right in that it should be simple, however complications caused by poor initial design as well as a severely limiting engine (it was incomplete when they bought it and all evidence suggests that it has grown into a massive pile of spaghetti code).
While we can't know for sure what kind of tools they have internally, we can infer things about what is easy and what is hard from previous and current bugs, high demand features that take a long time to be implemented (if they are at all) etc.
One thing we can infer is how NPC models/textures are applied is not handled the same as PC models/textures. I don't know if you were around for when the covert energy set was first released, but for example if you put the bracers on a companion with a set that should show skin, it wouldn't. It often would show the companions "default" bracers. This was never a problem for PCs. This was (mostly) fixed over the course of 4.0 and 5.0 when companions were redone for KOTFE/KOTET. Even so, every once and awhile, you'll still come across texture bugs during cut scenes. This is a sure sign of spaghetti code and a really messed up assets system. Also, all the models must be done for all the different body types, which gives quite the pile to work through
Under these circumstances, even simple activities could quickly balloon into a considerable amount of pain, as textures need to be applied to all models correctly (many of them also have male and female versions). This is all simple enough using the human model (basically all the PC species except Twi'lek and Togruta), as they can just stop there, all the animations are done, the cut scenes work out of the box and so on. It just works out to a whole bunch of texture work.
As soon as you start working with species with "weird head things" (one of the devs words, can't remember which one) you open up a new can of worms though. Things that should be simple are not. The devs are well aware of the demand for more customization options for Twi'lek for example, such as the Sith eyes that should be just a texture job. Thing is, it's been, what, a year since that pack went out? If it was actually trivial to do, they'd have done it long ago, keeping in mind this is something they'd be selling on the CM, so there is direct and immediate benefit for them to implement something like this.
Now, if "weird head things" are a challenge for them, I don't think "weird whole body things" is at all reasonable to expect them to do. Besides the "baseline" level of work, you now have to figure out what to do about pretty much all armour sets. The Togruta could get away with just auto-hiding the head slot, but that probably won't fly on other species (except perhaps Wookiee or Deshade, however they are not likely to implement a species that won't fuel the demand for more CM armour). ex. Khem Val ignores the armour he is wearing. If you want people to buy your new shinies, this is a bit counter-productive
Now if we limit ourselves to species that are "close enough" to normal in proportions (Trandoshan for example) we can move on to other problems like height. Cut scenes are the main issue here, as the camera has scripted points that it is positioned at, which could be a real problem for species that are taller or shorter than the current, as you would have to go through every single conversation and adjust these for the new height.
I'm not even going to get too far into the issues of Basic and romanceability. These are valid issues but are more of a should they do it than can they do it. A lot of it boils down to what I like to call "vanity" species. It might be kinda fun to run around with for awhile, but listening to a Jawa jabber away for hours on end would drive me insane before long, and the lack of "normal" player features like having romanceable companions would be a major deterrent for a lot of people.
All this coming back to the earlier point about return on investment. Everyone who wants new species has their list of favourites that they really, really want (lucky for me, that was Togruta) going down to those that they just kinda want. For most people, this list is quite large such that it almost doesn't matter what they give us, the vast majority who want new species will buy it, even if it isn't our personal favourite (ex. I bought Cathar even though it was Togruta I really wanted).
So if they can implement say, Nautolan for 200 dev hours, or Wookiee for 1000 hours, the odds of Wookiee selling 5x better is practically 0. And Wookiee taking 5x as long as Nautolan is probably conservative on my part.
Bit of a no brainer for them.
Whether it's as easy as I know it is, or possibly as difficult as what you're saying - the bottom line is that it's their job and they shouldn't need fans to make excuses for them. We love their work, but we are paying them for this after all, so we have a right to have hopes and expectations for the game. If I were running a business of any kind, I'd fully accept that my clients expect results and for me to hold up to a certain standard and work ethic. So once, again, it doesn't matter if it's hard or not, it's part of the job.
-
I'd like some good content first, then fix a few things that might be broke (still) and I want another Astromech droid first too. One that I can tell apart from the other 999 I have that don't see the light of day.
Thanks! I appreciate you sharing the link! I'm not sure why the devs would say that, unless they think we just won't know any better and believe it. But yeah, races like Nautolins and Kel-dor should still be an easy fit in the game. It's really not much to ask them seeing as how these races are no different than the current ones.
-
Because they will not put in the time and resources to redo every single conversation from the day one, re-record every single line in order for it to make sense as well as go back through every armor and weapon to make them work with different types of body.
You seem to be under a mistaken impression when it comes to the technical side of how this works. Each species in the game uses the exact same voice and conversation files, so they don't need to redo anything. Did you really think that they record a new convo for each race??? As for races that don't speak basic, they don't need anything more than the voice files they already use in game for npcs that don't speak basic. Even if Bio did have to put resources in, what do you think we're paying for?? I have never understood why some make excuses for the companies that we're paying for a service. It's like all those people formulating justifications for all the blunders in The Last Jedi, and doing the work of the writers for them.
That is why companions such as Khem Val for example have pre-fixed templates for the companion customization. All existing playable species are essentially a skin of the base human model and as such to ensure it works as is each new playable species they add would be a mirror of that.As such no wookie, yoda species, kel dor, etc playable species. Speaking basic isn't just the main make or break feature. The existing cut scenes, lines of dialogue, romance options, It would require far too many resources that they don't have to redo everything, make kissing in the romance make sense and work correctly and adjust.
This is just being realistic with what to expect, how they do things when it comes to adding new species to play as in the game. So it's more then likely not going to change given the current template they follow, resources and design of the game and is not a sandbox like SWG.
Also just to give you basic idea, the base game itself when it first launched had over 200,000 lines of recorded dialogue.
Like I said already, they don't need romance options right away. There are platonic versions of the dialog between characters. For example a female Sith Inquisitor doesn't have the same conversations or romance options with Ahsara, that the male one has. She has a platonic one that can be translated to any race that might be added, aka: Wookies. Taking out the odd line or two isn't difficult, and most of the content revolving around romance for these races can be added in further expansions. Besides, someone seeking to play a Wookie generally isn't seeking romantic Wookie-sex....at least not most of them.... As for the camera adjustments, those are easy and they already do it with all the races and sizes. The models are preprogrammed to look up at targets that are taller than them, or look down at someone shorter than them. The camera is already placed on the face of your character, regardless of the height, so it doesn't require any extra work.
The point of suggestion forums isn't to make excuses for the devs, it's to express our ideas and what we'd like to see.
-
Adding my opinion in red within the quote.
Oh and btw, I forgot to mention: This entire GAME is non-canon, so that's not a valid argument, and the Vong were present in the Old republic days. This YouTube vid explains
-
There is one for SWTOR though. Nightblazer's post is what devs have previously said.
Things change. What good is an MMO that doesn't evolve? Besides, most races do work for it and speak basic.
-
Very early in the game the devs said flat out they would not introduce any species that can't speak "Galactic Basic" as a playable species. Reason being they actually tried it in beta, specifically as a Wookiee, and decided that it got just too annoying in very short order.
So cross Wookiee, Trandoshan, Rodian, and ... whatever else ... off your wish list.
Then again, the current set of devs may not share that assessment, so who know?
I've never heard that before but it doesn't make much sense. Let the players decide what they want in that regard. A person who really wants to play a Wookie already knows what they're getting into: lots of RRrrrRWWrRrrrrr
-
Adding my opinion in red within the quote.
While I understand what you're saying, it seems predicated on the idea of the devs not having to do any work. They are payed for this, you know lol. Besides, most animator Star Wars fans do it for free on their spare time, so it's not even expensive to do.
Wookies are already an available model in the game and they should be adding new body types anyway. Right now we only have bodies that range from:
- Tiny
- Skinny
- ROIDS
- Lunchbox
Where's an Anakin Skywalker or Han Solo build for humanoids? What about an Obi-wan or Qui-Gon build??? How about getting new species with new builds to increase the game's variety?? Wookies and Kaminooans would create greater character diversity? They've had no trouble adding different species into the various cutscenes throughout the game, so it's absolutely no trouble making them playable characters. Let's get those in the game already.
As for Jawas, this is thousands of year ago: they chose that timeline specifically because it gave them a great deal of freedom to explore ideas. Having short, unscrupulous little tinkerers on the Empire wouldn't be so far fetched. Just look how far the Rakata species fell in such a short galactic time span: who knows what could have happened to Jawas along the way. The Empire is already known to ally with bountyhunters so I don't see a problem them or Trandoshans. I suppose the Vong may not be possible, but pretty much everything else on the list is. What good is an MMORPG that doesn't evolve?
-
Nautolans I can see them adding. Just not the other two. When it comes to playable species, they follow these guidlines as it's easier to implement and doesn't require things like animation changes in cut scenes, romance changes or dialogue changes.
- Must speak Basic
- Must work within existing cutscenes
- Must work with existing armor sets
- Must work with existing romances
For #2 this means no Jawa or Wookie for example as they wouldn't fix the camera due to being too short / too tall and they don't speak basic. For #4 that means their face must be human like in appearance. Neither Rodian or Kel Dor have this.
There's no rule book on what races can be used in Star Wars...Most of the races do speak basic, and even the ones who don't can easily be subtitled with the appropriate gibberish language audio laced over it. They can be placed in any cutscene quite easily, as the current races can be augmented from very small and frail, to large, towering individuals. As for the gear, those other threads you read were wrong because they don't understand how 3D modeling and textures/skins work: The gear can be applied to any form in the game, even serpentine, it just might look funny on the less humanoid ones and require modification for future models, which is how WoW has been doing it for 14 years. Naga for example can wear any gear that a Human, Orc, or Gnome can wear - all very distinct shapes and forms - this game's engine is the same in that regard. They don't reformat every single suit to fit every new race that comes to the game: whoever told you that is just ignorant. I have friends who make models like this for fun on the side, believe me, it's not that hard.
As for the Romance, add new stories for them. They don't need romance in all the previous chapters, and the game already has platonic companion dialog.
You're basically implying that they shouldn't have to do any work. It kinda defeats the purpose of an MMO when you don't evolve the story or visuals. It's well past time we got some new races.
- Must speak Basic
-
Out of the above list the following will never get added as a playable species:
- Mysterious Yoda Species
- Wookie (Chewbacca)
- Kel Dor (Plo Koon)
- Kaminooan (The cloners who created the Republic's grand army)
- Mon Calamari (IT'S A TRAP!)
- Uson Vong
- Rodian (Greedo)
- Jawa (Well... Jawas)
- Trandoshan (Bossk)
- Kaleesh (General Grievous)
- Thisspiasian (Oppo Rancisis)
For the ones like Yoda's species, they are meant to be rare and mysterious. That is why so few are in the game and it's something both George and Disney have been keen on following and meant to be kept that way. Hence why there is no info from George on them and why they aren't in cannon other then Yoda, Yaddle and maybe a couple of others. George wanted him to be mysterious and never wanted any more info about him and don't see Disney / Lucasfilm allowing that to change.
In regards to the rest in the above list, they won't be added because of the following guidelines they follow which has been covered in multiple threads:
- Must speak Basic
- Must work within all existing cutscenes
- Must work with all existing armor sets
- Must be romanceable
Because of the above guidelines, none of those would become a playable species. Maybe as a companion but not playable.
Most of the races I listed do speak basic, and even the ones who don't can easily be subtitled with the appropriate gibberish language audio laced over it. They can be placed in any cutscene quite easily, as the current races can be augmented from very small and frail, to large, towering individuals. As for the gear, those other threads you read were wrong because they don't understand how 3D modeling and textures/skins work: The gear can be applied to any form in the game, even serpentine, it just might look funny on the less humanoid ones and require modification for future models, which is how WoW has been doing it for 14 years. Naga for example can wear any gear that a Human, Orc, or Gnome can wear - all very distinct shapes and forms - this game's engine is the same in that regard. They don't reformat every single suit to fit every new race that comes to the game: whoever told you that is just ignorant. I have friends who make models like this for fun on the side, believe me, it's not that hard.
As for the Romance, add new stories for them. They don't need romance in all the previous chapters, and the game already has platonic companion dialog.
That leaves only the Yoda Species, which doesn't have to stay a mystery because George Lucas didn't think of any new content for them. That's the whole point of expanding on stories, revelations. You're basically implying that they shouldn't have to do any work. It kinda defeats the purpose of an MMO when you don't evolve the story or visuals. It's well past time we got some new races.
- Mysterious Yoda Species
-
I remember how in SWG, i loved playing a Wookie Jedi and also had a Mon Calimari one along with others, and loved the variety. Can't believe i forgot the other race that was later introduced. But i also think we should have Kel-dor as well, especially since that Kel-dor Jedi Master is coming back in-game.
I strongly agree. I never played Galaxies, but I do feel the Kel Dor would be a great addition based on all the characters we've seen. They always carry a deep wisdom and I always liked how innovative and sharp Plo Koon was.
-
So is this a thread to support Nautolans coming to the game or the two of you trying to start a small forum fire for no reason?
you want to get back to the point, yes?
There is a thread from last month that you should check out and you should of used the search feature first:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=953856
That thread is about nautolans.
Despite grumpy's incessant complaining, my thread is still very much in support of Nautolans being playable. And no, I don't use the search engine because it always pays to have more than one thread supporting an idea, and I'm used to WoW forums where ideas are routinely taken down in the mad scramble of threads being started. That being said, despite grumpy's inability to understand this, my second thread was a genuine accident because I thought the servers being down prevented it from being posted.
-
I have been calling for Nautolan's as a playable race at every livestream BW has done. Since they are already used as NPC's and a companion should not be too hard to bring in.
Will pray for this to happen every day!
You and me both. I'm still so surprised that they didn't come out since I stopped playing a while back. I'm really hoping they'll bring Nautolans into the fold because they're such an awesome and popular race.
-
Trandoshan and Wookie would make this game even more amazing.
Agreed. Fans of hardcore muscle characters have really been letdown all these years. Time to get some bruisers in the game.
-
There are four different Nautolan models in the game, and their real names are:
* Blue Male
* Green Male
* Blue Female
* Green Female.
There are no face variations, no scars, nothing, just those four. Of course they could add variations (as they did when adding Cathar and Toggies), but they would have to do so, and that represents a non-trivial amount of graphical modelling work.
Same for Voss (except that there is one male and one female, who are also too tall *and* too skinny to be compatible with existing armour sets. Playable Voss are also a monstrously enormous big huge lore break, and adding them as playable would immediately turn every single conversation on or around the Voss segment of the class stories into total gibberish.
The other one that crops up from time to time is Devaronians, and there the "limited models" thing is worse: there are two, best called Tyresius Lokai and Gault Rennow. All others look like Tyresius, and not one of them is female. (Female Devaronians have no horns and look in general quite different from the males.)
I honestly have friends who do this in their spare time, it's really not that hard at all. The scars and complexion options are universal skins that work the same gear: they can be applied to any model. Also, they are running a game that people pay for, so I'm sure they're aware that they need to put work into it. Creating some new skin colors/patterns and facial models isn't much to ask. Star Wars is a diverse universe, so the game needs some more variety to truly feel like the real deal.
-
New playable species would be great, but the options would have to be limited to aliens that speak Basic and have enough humanoid features that their introduction either wouldn't contradict lore or causes problems with cutscene content.
As cool as it would be to play a bowcaster-wielding Wookie, that is sadly not a possibility. Neither would a Gaffi-stick wielding Tusken that does
every time you defeat someone in PVP, which would be my pick.The most likely candidates would be humanoid aliens that already have some existing character models in the game. Nautolans for instance, which were the third most requested playable species behind Togruta and Cathar, Devaronians, or Weequay.
It's actually not that hard at all. The only change they'd need to make is add subtitles and the appropriate gibberish language for the species. They already do it with certain NPCs in the game, so it wouldn't be any trouble to do it for the cutscenes. Imagine leaping into battle with a Wookie roar! It's totally possible and really quite easy.
-
I'm not a programmer nor do I claim to know how they do what they do but every one of my character's customized appearances show up in the cut scenes......isn't it just a skin inserted to the scene? Couldn't a new race be placed the same?
Yep, exactly. The game just takes whatever you're playing and you're in the scene. It's honestly cake.
-
Seeing as the new species would need to be able to do the same animations as the ones that came before, a lot of the ones listed by the op would be impossible. But now I wanna see Quinn make out with a Wookie, or Kaliyo with a Rodian .
Anyway, good luck and happy hunting
I suppose the kissing would be hard for Wookies but all they have to do is modify the stories for neutral relationships, like they do already. (No romantic option) Of course with further expansion they can add some Wookie love to the game. Adding any race would honestly be so easy. I have friends who do this kinda thing for fun on their spare time. It's not hard at all.
-
As much as I would like Jawas to be an option, I think I'd rather see Ortolan be a playable species. Someone needs to support the blue elephants
That's be hilarious, man. I have to admit I never even considered Ortolans! Their voice sounds would be hilarious. Very creative choice, I like it!
New player races
in Combat Styles
Posted · Edited by Azterion
What I mean by that is that they don't need any of us to outline their restrictions, and that restrictions can be changed as time goes on. Their budget is limited, but not so limited that they're not expected to do any work.
It's like I was saying: Work is part of the job description.
I feel they can get around that fairly easily, given that Nautolans are close enough facially, or at least their mouths are, and a line of dialog here and there can either be taken out or forgiven. New content can focus on romances and dialog to match the new species. Instead of referring to races in particular, they can use blanket terms like "What's a Jedi like you doing out here?"
I literally have friends who do this stuff for free on their spare time. It's far easier than some companies let on. Once again, that's their job.
I thought Togruta were a fine a addition to the game, given the popularity of Ahsoka. And as for few models, well they are being payed for this, so that's their job.
Why though? The purpose of forums is to express our hopes and ideas, not speak for the company or make excuses for them. There's literally no point in speaking for a company that we don't represent. If anything it's counterproductive.
Let them worry about that, we're just here to discuss what we want, and why we think it works for the game -- then their job is to see if they can make it work. I could understand if you had legitimate lore concerns or reasons why these races would genuinely be a problem: Like if someone said "I want Kylo Ren in the game! Make a romance between Vice Admiral Purple-Hair and Rose Tico!" Obviously that wouldn't work because they'd be so out of place in this timeline/messed up, and 90% of players would instantly unsubsribe. New races on the other hand, are only a boon to the game, so lets try to encourage positive change instead of reciting 'classic criteria'. Change is necessary for growth.