[An update on the development of SWTOR]

I stopped playing a while ago, but kept the sub active as some kind of carrot to the devs to keep working on this. I've been off enjoying many other games, and really haven't looked back. This was my first MMO, but I've since been loving FFXIV and, to a lesser extent, ESO. Also a slew of single-player games. And so much has changed in my life since I first logged in there. Still, there has never been anything as magical as SWTOR was for me - just a magical moment in time that's probably not reproducible. I'll always cherish that.

Now, I have to decide whether I want to --on principle -- continue to pay AAA prices for a maintenance mode game that doesn't even support the devs I've grown with all these years. I have 10 days to decide...

[How to fix inflation]

3 hours ago, DWho said:

The problem with credits sinks, not that they don't need to be implemented somewhere (GTN would be the best place since the majority of credits in game pass through there at one point or another), is that they primarily impact the players playing the game (with new players impacted the most severely) and do nothing to shed the massive number of credits already in game. Many of the people with "billions" of credits don't even play the game enough to have any in game credit sink make a difference. The wrong credit sinks will move the game back to a point where someone playing the game won't even be able to afford repairing their gear, a good recipe for collapsing the playerbase. The key now to getting credits in game is forcing all player to player trades back onto the GTN where the sinks there can at least do something rather than being circumvented.

Maybe titles like "Exploiter", "Credit Hoarder", and "Super Rich" for a couple of billion each could do something, but they're one offs. Eliminating credit buyers would probably be more effective than going after credit sellers (though they are really the same thing). If no one is buying credits, no one will farm them to sell to credit sellers and running bots 24/7 becomes pointless. If all of the credits that were earned by players no longer playing the game left the game instead of being transferred to credit sellers, there would be a lot less credits in the game driving up prices.

And it will be difficult to implement any of this now -- not without a credit purge (which could lead to riots, lol). The credit sink concept really needs to be part of the game design from the beginning. The later it's added, the harder it is for new players to catch up. Additionally, proper credit sinks go hand-in-hand with deflationary concepts such as limiting means for generating credits (e.g. drastically limiting credit rewards) early in the game life. In general, managing inflation in a game like this -- if desired at all -- has to be a long-term, intentional, continuously monitored and adjusted process. 

[How to fix inflation]

3 hours ago, illgot said:

this is wrong. The majority of credits in game did not come from credit exploits. The majority of credits came from thousands of bots running 24/7 then turning around and selling 1 billion credits for 1 dollar, and millions of legitimate players playing for 10 years constantly generating credits faster than any of the credit sinks could remove them.

The max a legacy bank can hold is 104.29 billion. Even if players from years ago to today exploited 104.29 billion+4.29 billion per character, that does not account for the amount of credits we now have in game. I sell billions a night just in crafting materials and I am not the only one. Many crafters sell 5-10 billion a night in materials or Augment 77s. There is no way that "a very very large percentage of credits" came from credit exploits unless there are thousands of accounts holding 104.29 billion sitting on reserve from years ago.

What seems more likely, a handful of credit exploits over the 10 years is primarily responsible for the inflation we have seen in the last 2 years... or the conquest system and simple missions that can easily be automated with thousands of accounts to the point where third party websites are selling 1 billion credits for 1 dollar.

Pretty much. While it's certainly possible that some influx of credits came into the game via exploits and hacks, it's unlikely that this represents the vast majority. Credit farming (via bots or raw time/sweat) has been far too easy. And with 11 years of players and no thoughtful mechanisms to remove these credits, the inflation we're seeing was bound to happen. The inflation problem is all about an excessive amount of credits in the game (almost entirely from in-game activities) with no way to get them out....

[How to fix inflation]

Every credit - each and every one in the game - originated from "legit" in-game activities at some point (for the sake of discussion, I'm assuming no "hacks"). There is no way (see assumption previously) for a credit seller to net add credits to the game. So as much as we want to blame credit sellers (and yes, they are bad for the game), it's the game design decisions that ultimately caused the inflation, not credit sellers. Credit sellers could not have caused inflation even if they wanted to. So what did? Put simply, for the interests of time, the game never designed a way to meaningfully remove credits from the game, once generated, i.e. meaningful credit sinks. A SWTOR credit, once created, can never be destroyed (again, barring trivial legacy sinks). Adding net new currency to an economy with no way to remove it, is literally the textbook way of causing inflation. (There's a more nuanced explanation, but that would take too long and doesn't really help with the major points.)

To further the problem, enabling the player-to-player sale option for cash shop items using in-game credits only accelerates the problem by encouraging credit-farming/new generation of credits, where said credits will never be removed from the economy but will only go to other players. So, even if real sinks were never added, had the player-to-player sale of the most-desired items (i.e. cash shop) never been permitted, the inflation rate would have been slower (we'd still have inflation eventually though, for the reasons above). But this cash shop decision has been a financial boon. There's no (near-term) financial reason for them to change any of this, and so inflation is here to stay...

[We're honestly being trolled by the devs]

cut them some slack.

 

I suspect this was sarcasm...

[New inventory literally hurts the eyes of people]

Hoping we get a response from the devs on this early this week. Even an acknowledgement that they're looking into it....

[New inventory literally hurts the eyes of people]

I cannot play the game. I know some people don't get this and think it's just personal preference, but I get sick looking at the inventory screen. Hardly ever deal with this issue anywhere else, let alone games. I can't even comment on the main update itself -- haven't had a chance to experience it because I don't want to log in. I suppose I would like most of the changes because I'm story-driven casual with no interest in end-game gear, etc. But I won't be able to play until this is fixed. I hope the devs take a look at this soon....

[New inventory literally hurts the eyes of people]

I want to separate the "I don't like these changes" arguments (valid opinions btw) from the "this UI makes me sick" or "makes my head hurt" crowd. Yes, some of the latter is hyperbole. But I definitely want to bring attention to the fact that for some group of people, these changes actually do cause negative symptoms. I shared why that's true for some earlier (won't reshare b/c even the link itself causes some to feel sick). But I think it's really important that someone on the dev team take a look at some point. Specifically talking about the new inventory UI for now, and only that. And before someone says "can't please everyone," I want to point out that most modern UI approaches intentionally don't do UI the way the new inventory UI is done, for these exact reasons. PM me if you want to understand more...

[New inventory literally hurts the eyes of people]

Guys, please do yourselves a favour and don't click that link! - even if you don't have it, you will after seeing some of the images. I was unable to erase them from my mind for months at an end! it's nothing to be curious about, it's just pure awfulness and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It is a completely different issue!

 

My hope is that, if this topic gets big enough, someone with decision power will take notice, and maybe show us player base some mercy and revert back the old UI. As multiple someones said in this thread - it is not an improvement, rather the opposite.

 

This issue also makes me question if the devs play their own game?

 

I'm really sorry. My only goal here was to validate that this is a "real" thing and not just people being overly sensitive. But it is very much the issue for me, because it's something I deal with and it's why I can't personally look at the inventory screen...

 

edited to add: please don't click the link if you think this is even remotely an issue for you. That's a fair point and I tried to warn, but it wasn't enough. But again, the gaps in the rounded rectangles create a "honeycombing" effect that if you deal with this issue, you will instantly react to and feel quesy from...

[The new UI is terrible, wasn't this just a placeholder?]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but there is a medical term for this that I suspect is at play here called "tryphophobia" (warning: the pictures may cause discomfort to some). It's more common than people think, and many people don't realize they suffer from it. However, almost any UI/UX engineer *should* be aware of it -- it's just not acceptable IMO to make this design error in 2022 and it should be immediately fixed....

 

Posted this on a similar thread. Reposting because I don't think this is a trivial issue. Should be addressed promptly....

 

edited to add: please don't click the link if you're even remotely sensitive to things like honeycombs, etc. I only posted it to help with those who may feel their being labeled as nitpicky or emotional. This is a real thing...

[Original character screen music!]

And all rejoiced...

[New inventory literally hurts the eyes of people]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but there is a medical term for this that I suspect is at play here called "tryphophobia" (warning: the pictures may cause discomfort to some). It's more common than people think, and many people don't realize they suffer from it. However, almost any UI/UX engineer *should* be aware of it -- it's just not acceptable IMO to make this design error in 2022 and it should be immediately fixed....

[Claimed Cartel Market sets should come boxed up like they do in Hypercrates]

This is intentional - incentivizes buying crates. That is, for the person buying the outfit to use on their toons, it makes no difference. To the one purchasing to resell on GTN or trade, it will matter. I suspect (I don't by crates and don't have their data, so I don't know) that the vast majority of people who buy crates do so for GTN purposes...

[Regarding Combat upgrade.]

...

You will be able to, you are not mistaken. If you are a subscriber and decided on the two Combat Styles you can have on your toon, you can swap between them and their respective set of abilities. The only thing is that you cannot combine abilities from both Combat Styles and that you will not retain any abilities from your Origin Story (i.e. Sith Inquisitor). Your abilities will come purely from your Combat Styles (i.e. Sorcerer and Assassin).

 

Aces!

[Regarding Combat upgrade.]

...

 

You roll a Sith Inquisitor, and you say, 'Oh, I think I might want to give her the Sith Marauder Combat style, thinking that you might be able to use the two-handed style. Yeah, you can. But you won't be a Sith Inquisitor.

 

Instead, you will be a Sith Inquisitor in class-story only, whilst playing as a Sith Marauder. You will not have any of the Sith Sorcerer powers, because you aren't a Sith Sorcerer or Sith Assassin. You're a Sith Marauder playing the Sith Inquisitor story-line.

 

...

 

Why did I think you would be able to have both sets of abilities, swappable (i.e only one active at any time), on the same toon? Am I mistaken?

[Class Story Difficulty Is An Absolute Joke]

I've noticed that most people that complain about this subject are also always quick to equip the highest gear. If challenge is important to your immersive experience, then simply avoid gearing to level.

 

While leveling a character on the PTS recently, I was out of the rested state, had no legacy perks or character perks and was focusing mainly on the class story. I was falling behind in planet level and was noticing an increase in "challenge." This isn't rocket science.

 

I've never had the highest gear, so I'm probably not the best to speak on this. Since launch, I've never been able/willing to grind enough to get the BiS gear. But that said, I think this argument above misses the mark. If you RP and/or are into immersion, it can be really hard to feel immersed when you're taking gear off your character, dismissing companion, gimping yourself, etc.

 

Again, I'm not advocating that the devs make the story mode hard/grindy, only pointing out there there is a block of players -- seemingly a minority -- that gets a thrill from feeling like there are "stakes" and that there could be "consequences" for mistakes or lack of planning...

[Class Story Difficulty Is An Absolute Joke]

But you can't. You'll be teleported to a droid not far from where the battle took place and you can try again after a short walk back to the boss.

 

Those are exactly the purgatory stakes I desperately wanted to avoid. Knowing that a shameful retreat was possibility helped raise the stakes. As it is now, it's just watching a cutscene while I press buttons. Don't get me wrong - I'm a fanboy of this game, but this change to leveling (where I've by far spent most of my questing time here) took something away for me. I recognize I'm in the minority, so just sharing my opinion...

[Class Story Difficulty Is An Absolute Joke]

Where I agree with OP completely is on "immersion." I enjoy the 'RP' aspects of an RPG and IMO an RP story without the "G" just is no more immersive than watching reruns of Clone Wars. For me, I feel more immersed when I'm guiding my toon through something that feels impactful -- where it feels I could actually, maybe die. It's that part that raises the immersion stakes for me. But I understand many people don't feel this way, and in any event that ship has long left port...

 

Edit: also "taking off gear and sending away companion" is probably the least immersive "solution" to this (doesn't work anyway). Still, at this point, I'd rather the team focus on other things even though I fully agree with OP...

[Cheers to the Best Video Game Ever Made (Haters Keep Out!)]

Oh...sorry...thought the topic was about Mass Effect 2 and Witcher Wild Hunt.

 

Played and enjoyed both immensely. Neither has kept me entertained for 10 years...

[Cheers to the Best Video Game Ever Made (Haters Keep Out!)]

Best Video Game Ever?

Not even close. Play more video game.

 

Best Star Wars Video Game?

If we took the class stories out and made it into a solo RPG game, than yeah, I like it on par with or even more than Kotor I and II simply because there are 8 stories that allow use to see the whole picture of this Republic vs Sith Empire society. But like the others had said, the engine and interface of this game really isn't the best even at it's prime. And the single plot for all story format later really destroys what makes SWTOR unique as a mmoRPG game.

 

I believe it's now exceeded Kotor I/II -- great games too, and can't knock someone for preferring those. And again, I'd never argue that this game was perfect -- none are. But what's with the "play more games" everyone is saying? What are these amazingly great games I'm missing? I've played too many titles to even count at this point, and certainly all the ones you'd expect. But always looking for magic. What am I missing? Please share...

[Cheers to the Best Video Game Ever Made (Haters Keep Out!)]

Ah yes, anyone who has a different opinion on an open forum is a troll. Telling people who disagree with a topic to stay out of a thread does nothing, I don't know why there would be a reasonable expectation that people just would abide by it. Like anything I love and enjoy, this game deserves the criticism is gets just like anything else that is run by a multi-million (billion if you want to go by EA) dollar corporation.

 

There is nothing wrong with any of the posts here as far as productive conversation goes (except yours tbh, you're being pretty toxic imo), unless you rather it be a copefest thread of praise while we await a 2 month late anniversary expansion. The nature of this game as a "live service", its genre, Bioware's niche and Star Wars are why this game is still around. We shouldn't fool ourselves here as to why its still here. This is the only high quality SW game on the market (still getting updates) in years because literally 1 company had the exclusive right to create games using the IP, so I don't know why you're even bringing it up like there was some competition here.

 

To clarify on my previous post, I am indeed saying that if you think that this is the "Best Video Game Ever Made", you may want to play other games. If this still somehow tops out ahead of everything else you play for whatever reason, I'm happy for you. But its pretty sad. Coming from someone who believes well intentioned criticism of things you love is always a good thing. This is also just a weird time to start this thread considering our current situation, but go off.

 

I play a ton of games. I suppose I could say that from my POV, what's sad is that you think it's sad that I have this opinion, and that you thought that telling the world how sad this is was necessary. But I don't honestly think that's sad, given that I don't know anything about you.

 

But I can't, and wouldn't try to, stop anyone from posting here. Instead, my thinking -- silly in hindsight -- was that given that there are so many negative threads to post on, that those who didn't share my views here might choose to share that dissent elsewhere. Some of us (and I don't believe it's as small as the threads might imply) are actually looking exactly for a "copefest of praise."

 

I know for myself, if someone said they weren't looking for positive opinions in their negativity thread, I wouldn't post a positive one there, because...well, not even worth explaining further. But I recognize that was foolish of me to expect that across the board...

[Cheers to the Best Video Game Ever Made (Haters Keep Out!)]

Been reflecting on 10 years, and I gotta say that nothing before or since is better than this "flawed" gem called SWTOR. This was my first MMO, but in the 10 years since launch, I've played all other others. I keep coming back here (never left since launch tbh). I'm a gamer through and through and also play a variety of other genres, including all the RPGs, strategy, open world, sports, etc. games.

 

This game has a number of flaws, bugs, nits -- it's far from perfect. I've shared my thoughts on this in the past at times (always out of love for the game). But this thread isn't about any of that (please put that somewhere else as a courtesy to this homage). Because despite it all, I've never loved any game more than this one and I know I'm not alone. This remains the best ever. Here's a short list of why:

 

1. Immersive: Too much to cover. But fully voice acted, with Star Wars lore? Um yeah! Whenever you log into this game, you feel instantly transported in the world of Star Wars. No other game makes you feel like you're in a vibrant world the way this one does!

2.Star Wars: kinda like #1, but deserves its own place. Choosing The Old Republic was brilliant, since it opened up even more lore.

3. Accommodating: casual, hardcore, noob? Story-driven. End-gamer? Crafter? Space Barbie? There's something here for you. For example, for the first couple years, I didn't even have a level 50 (old level cap). But I had all crew skills maxed and used to make millions (when that was a big deal) just crafting. Later got into PvP.

4. PvP: best there is in any game. A number of reasons this is so, but for starters it's accessible to casuals and hardcore alike. It's got a varying meta. And it's infinitely replayable. Again, for several years I did just PvP as my main "play" (besides space barbie and crafting) b/c I could jump in and do 20 min and feel like I did something.

5. PvE: I have never done an Operation. It's on my SWTOR Bucket List, but I've just never had the time (and still am not particularly good ). But I love the FPs, world bosses, etc. at various difficulty modes. And if you count the story and side quests (how can you not?), there isn't anything even close.

6. Still Holds Up: How many 10 year old games can you still play and still enjoy as if new?

7. Story: I don't even think this belongs on this list. It's literally it's own post by itself! There isn't even a close contest here when it comes to story. Witcher, Skyrim, FFXIV, WoW -- nothing is in this league. How many games make you care? So much to say here, but if you're reading this, you already know!

 

So take a moment this anniversary and reflect on the marvel Bioware put together here. It's incredible how ambitious this was at the time, and that's showing over the years as many other companies have failed to capture this magic. Also, no other Star Wars licensed product has this magic. Bioware took a major risk and were punished for it early on (by EA mostly) yet, this stands out as a classic, fully holding up after 10 years. Kudos to all the devs and team involved over the years and thank you so much for giving the world this amazing game!

 

What else am I missing? Who else agrees? No haters please...

[Launcher Still Says 7.0 Releasing Dec. 14th]

Long-time sub (since launch) but haven't played in a long while mostly due to time, even though I stay subbed. Even when I played more, I was still "casual" and I barely caught everything, even on forums. These days, I'm not even on forums. So I missed the update announcement originally until I logged in this weekend and saw it on chat. I'm like "that's weird, it still shows on launcher." Not a huge deal, but I imagine I'm far from the only one...

[Launcher Still Says 7.0 Releasing Dec. 14th]

Should probably change that. I imagine a lot of players were like me and didn't have the time to keep up on forums, Twitter, etc., and (like me) still thought the expansion was coming in a couple days ...

[Plz Don't Assume My Combat Style...]

Hi all,

 

I wanted to jump in and try and clarify some of the potential confusion in this thread.

 

There are two different topics here: The ability for existing players to change the Combat Style upon logging in to the 7.0 Game Update, and the rules around characters with Force Origin Stories when they are offered an option to swap Combat Styles with their opposite-aligned mirror.

 

Existing Characters and Combat Styles

• As Jackie posted, we fully intended for current characters to be able to choose a preferred Combat Style upon logging in for Game Update 7.0. We have worked for some time to try and make this happen, but recently ran into some technical hurdles that unfortunately prevents us from supporting this. So, as a result, when you log into the game after 7.0, your primary Combat Style will be your current Advanced Class. Choosing your Advanced Class was designed to be a permanent choice, and we will continue this with Combat Styles. We have no current plans to introduce a method to change one of your Combat Styles.
  
• As we previously stated, the ability to have a second Combat Style and the additional Loadouts that come with it are features for active subscribers. Related to this topic, we did see a question being asked of “what happens to my second Combat Style if my subscription lapses?”. In short, your “second” Combat Style will become unusable including its Loadouts. Note the quotations around the word second. If your subscription lapses, your useable Combat Style will be the one you last logged out on when the cancellation hits your account. This means that if you log out on your primary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. If you log out on your secondary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. Essentially, whichever Combat Style is active when your sub lapses is the one you will continue to use when you log back in.
  

 

Force Origin Story Considerations

• Force Origin Stories have some special considerations, since there are some restrictions in Combat Style choice that Tech Origin Stories do not share.
  
• To a brand new player, or a player who has not unlocked their Dark V/Light V achievements in their Legacy (Legacy of Sacrifice and Legacy of Unity), they are not presented with the option to choose an opposite-aligned Combat Style at character create nor when they unlock their second Combat Style, with one exception:
  
  • If a player without these unlocks has been playing their character with opposite aligned morality, such as a Jedi Origin Story as a Dark Side character, or a Sith Origin Story as a Light Side character, they will receive the option to swap their current Combat Style to the opposite alignment equivalent upon completing their Act 3 story. In addition, when they are prompted to select their second Combat Style, they will have all Force Combat Styles available to them.
    

  [*]Force Origin Story players who have already unlocked Light V/Dark V achievements will not see any restrictions, and all Combat Styles are available to them at both character create and when choosing their second Combat Style

 

There has been no change in the design of the Force Origin Story Considerations, which was first shared in this post. You can listen to me talking about all of these restrictions, and expand on why and the philosophy behind these decisions in the linked podcast in the post.

 

However, to build upon Jackie’s clarification post here, we wanted to give Force Origin Story players some choice when the 7.0 update releases. So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0.

 

This means if you are a Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular, and have at least 1 Dark Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. Likewise, if you are a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor, and have at least 1 Light Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. This will be regardless of any Legacy unlocks or otherwise. Once that character is in the game, and the swap choice has been made or refused, the rules as described above will still apply.

 

Finally, I wanted to address some comments around my clarifications in Discord about the above topic. What I stated in this post is still true. I have recently been trying to clarify confusion around swapping Force Combat Styles by repeating the same information we revealed in the podcast and linked in the official forums. I will typically include a link to the official sources to reinforce where this information originated from. Any new information around Combat Styles or any other topic will be shared through official channels such as our blogs, the forums, our livestreams, etc… and those mediums will be used to reinforce or clarify any questions being answered elsewhere.

 

Thanks,

-Chris

 

 

Okay, so:

1. Current toon, has an advanced class already. That class is locked in. By "advanced class," I mean "Sith Assassin," "Jedi Sage," "Scoundrel," etc.

2. Said toon, logs in and gets to choose a second advanced class (restricted by Force/Tech). Once chosen, that AC is locked in permanently as well.

3. However, within the AC, users will still be able to swap "combat proficiencies" right? (E.g. Sage can swap heals or DPS, Assassin can swap tank/dps, etc.?)