jepurv

July 15, 2012

Yes. They should go back to level 1. They gave you additional character slots. Or you can delete the character and reforge him anew. It's not impossible to level up. The advanced classes play very much different from each other(less so with the shared tree, but still having big differences), and learning them from 10-50 is part of the gaming experience.

You're not totally choosing blind at level 10-11, because you get the option to read what each advanced class can and cannot do before you hop in and make that choice. If you skip the reading, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you make a mistake, own up to it. They didn't force you to choose that advanced class when you made that choice. You picked it yourself. It makes no sense to just give an advanced class "do-over" because your mood changes with the winds.

READING about an advanced class and learning the mechanics through gameplay experience are radically different endeavors. Thus, this argument is fundamentally flawed and also points to another flaw inherent in the system--that "reading" about an advanced class is enough for players to grasp fully the mechanics that will result from their definitive choice.

Thank you for your impassioned contribution to the debate, although I think your response adds a bit of weight to the need to revise the leveling experience.

One more thing, I don't think I'll be applying the "pick yourself up by your boot straps and stop expecting handouts" type of discourse where this game is concerned. I work extremely hard every day in my actual life. Games are meant (at least in my opinion) to be a release from that day-to-day strife. I would like to take the money that I earn, trading what little time I have left in my life, and apply it to an advanced class respec rather than going through the "same class" quest line all over again for the mere purpose of altering gameplay mechanics. But I can see how some of you younger people, with seemingly less at stake, might not grasp this entirely.

July 15, 2012

its the same thing. it is advanced CLASS, not a talent tree. The ACs are all DRASTICALLY different they are completely different classes that simply share the same story.

the QQing OP wants to go from a wow type rogue to a wow type mage. Now honestly there is no reason other then his a QQer that he would even ask for that, not event eh QQ brigade of wow asks for the ability to instantly have a brand new max level character for no reason.

If the classes are as different as you claim then this is a problem. If someone has to make a permanent choice at level 10 between two completely distinct adv. classes without prior knowledge then that constitutes a design flaw. By arguing against my post in this fashion you have actually highlighted a problem with the game, not my proposal.

July 14, 2012

He is not talking about class respecs (ie Bounty Hunter to Sith Warrior), he is only talking about allowing advanced class respecs within the class you chose (ie Operative to Sniper, Commando to Vanguard, Guardian to Sentinal...ect) . I don't even think class respecs would be possible in this game given the separate storylines, companions, and gearing.

Exactly! and very limited respecs as well. I am not proposing that this should be as easy as changing a spec tree. It should cost money and be restricted temporally and per account.

The other interesting trend that I notice in this debate is people who make distinctions between themselves and what they call "FOTM" type players who can't play their class. This is a weak argument. If you are in a guild (and I am assuming that if you are opposite of "FOTM" then you belong to one) then you shouldn't have to worry about "FOTM" players as you are part of a schedule of events and have regular access to content with players that know how to play the game quite well.

Also, some players may actually get better at the game if they have the choice to switch Adv, Class and inhabit a different role.

Just FYI, when people tell me to "knock this nonsense of (sic)," it actually makes me want to pursue the issue further and with increased enthusiasm.

July 14, 2012

what problem are you trying to solve by doing this?

The number one issue raised by my friends after release was the lack of choices after lvl 10. My friend did not like the sorcerer through lvls 10-15 and he re-rolled and started an assassin. By lvl 40, he was not satisfied with the assassin and wanted to go back to the sorcerer. I am in a similar boat with my 50 assassin. I simply expected to eventually enjoy the class; however, it never really developed the way I had hoped it would.

This caused frustration with other people in my guild as well. Eventually, people quit the game and now I am the only one left playing. I would imagine that if you conducted a poll of all the people that dropped from the game between January 2012 and February 2012 you might find that this is a common frustration, one that, in combination with the lack of other mechanical conveniences, resulted in the mass exodus from the game (we're talking hundreds of thousands of accounts). Hence, the current round of server transfers and server merges coming in August. Add to this the release of SW, GW2, and WoW Pandas and your going to see another upcoming drop is subs.

For some reason this is met with hostility and scorn by a certain demographic who vehemently oppose Adv. Class Respecs and I am not entirely certain why. I have yet to see a very well-thought-out argument (even from the devs) for why people should be restricted to the lvl 10 class choice when the game-mechanics prior to that choice were not indicative of what would come after.

I think it was a system developed with good intentions, but it is fundamentally flawed and needs revision. That is the purpose of my post. It is an attempt to provide constructive criticism of one the the fundamental aspects of the game while also providing potential fixes.

July 13, 2012

Here is my proposal:

Do some research. Take a look at how much money WoW makes off of Race, Name, and Faction changes. It might be worth it financially to offer similar services, including the AC respec considering that at the current moment the SWTOR system forces players to make an uninformed decision at lvl 10.

Advanced Class

1) Allow a once a year, per account Advanced Class respsc. (only one character, per account, per year)

a) the first respec is $10 (real money)

b) every additional respec goes up $5

c) this system maxes out at $50

This system would restrict the frequency and deter people from multiple switches (it would also make money).

Leveling Changes

1) Once a player hits lvl 10 they choose their first Advanced Class

2) At level 20 each player has the choice to either solidify their initial choice or switch to the other Advanced Class

3) At level 30, having had the chance to play each AC, the player must make a final decision.

This system could also work well at levels 10, 15, and 20 although that would be less time learning the class.

You could just provide blue items for class choices.

July 13, 2012

the problem is they coppied wow too much, if they had stuck with the kotor system, you would have been able to be a jedi with one or 2 sabers or a double saber, even as a knight sent or sage. you would have picked the abbilities YOU wanted and the gear YOU wanted.

the kotor system was fun because you could even heal yourself to a degree, evn multiple times with stims instead of only once a fight. you could make yourself a hybrid build or a pure tank or a pure dps, however you wanted.

unfortunatly biofail was kissing too much as at blizz HQ, so we got wow in space.

It wasn't WoW they copied on this issue, it was Warhammer. WoW classes are able to use different weapons (to a point) . In Warhammer there were mirrored classes and specific armor and weapons for each.

July 13, 2012

This is a common argument concerning the issue of advanced classes: "other games don't let you go from warrior to mage, so swtor should not allow people to change their advanced class."

This argument, fails to take into consideration the nature of SWTORs class system and how fundamentally different it is from those other games. SWTOR has a base class system that splits into different advanced classes at level 10. WoW, on the other hand, forces the player into a class that will be the same from lvl 10 to cap. While this has been criticized it actually allows the player to make decisions concerning play-style and roles faster and more efficiently.

Conversely, SWTOR has you play through a fundamental class arbitrarily for 10 levels. This is why there are no flashpoints until lvl 10. In some cases, these first 10 levels have absolutely no relevance to the eventual switch being made at lvl 10 when choosing an advanced class. For instance, the Inquisitor base class plays nothing like the assassin. So, once you choose assassin and play it for the first time at lvl 10 you are screwed. I though some portion of the base style and function of the Inquisitor would be retained in the assassin build but it really wasn't.

Had I known that I wasn't going to enjoy the assassin at lvl 10-15 then I would have promptly switched to sorcerer and leveled to 10 to try it out beyond lvl 10. However, as many of us can probably agree, stopping to lvl a new character while your friends are blasting through levels each day is a major setback should you want to get capped and engage in endgame material.

While this system was intended to provide choice, it actually restricts choice. In reality, there are 16 classes in the game. Why not just have these 16 classes available at lvl 1 , have their play-style accurately represented from the start, and allow players to get to know them faster rather than delaying the most important choice a player has to make about his/her character?

I think that while this system was implemented with good intentions, it has proven to be ineffective for many and should be revisited in the near future. I, for one, would much rather play a sorcerer than an assassin. I would love to see an option to change advanced classes. As is, my 50 assassin is just sitting there and it will probably be difficult for me to maintain a high level of interest in the game. My friends have all quit the game, I have come back for a month to test the 1.3 patch. I will probably move on to something else though as it seems that this game is having difficulty in meeting the most basic of needs.

I really do not understand the argument against advanced class respec. There is no good argument that has convinced me that this should not be in the game. It is, quite simply, a matter of retaining subscriptions--people who are stuck with a character they do not like (because the game design did not allow them to make this determination early on) will quit the game, losing the company money and having a negative effect on server population in the long run.

Also, lets get something straight (as I fear we have forgotten the true meaning of the term "accomplishment" in this debate). I would like to suggest that the "lazy" people are the one's who play this game waaaaay too much and are willing to level an assassin and a sorcerer, not the people who have out-of-game obligations and do not have the time to sit at a computer all day and level characters with no real-world consequences. It is the fact that I am fundamentally NOT lazy that I want the choice to change my advanced class!!! I enjoy the game. But I also want choices. And this particular choice would hurt no one (except of course those who think that their time spent in an MMO is some kind of worthy accomplishment)

I am PAYING to play a game. More importantly, I am PAYING for a service. Why should I not expect choice!?!

July 13, 2012

Honestly? I sort of think you should be "freely" able to switch between AC's up until ~lvl 20.

Should be high enough so you can see which spec you prefer.

('course, some would argue that you can simply delete and reroll at that low level... but since that's true, what the harm in shortcutting it with a respec so you can quickly swap back and forth?)

EXACTLY!!!

The level 10 advanced class things is a design flaw if you ask me!!!

July 12, 2012