blue_talon
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Posts posted by blue_talon
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The bigger battles can easily be broken up into smaller separate engagements that are simply less clear because of the chaos. Let's say my healer is mostly focusing on me (DPS Scoundrel) and there's a tank Guarding him but assisting on my kill, which is their healer. If a Marauder leaps in to protect his healer and focuses on me while the Powertech tank helps his healer survive, there's no way I'll be able to put out enough DPS over the course of that fight to do anything meaningful. That's a small 3v3 and it's already too much of a group fight to really be useful because, like I said, throw some heals and my opener was erased so now I have my crap sustained damage to try and rely on.
It's just gimp.
-Edit- Besides, I was throwing in the 1v1 as best case scenario for the class and it's still not exactly powerful as pure DPS; many classes can just eat the burst and then you can't outlast anyone.
I disagree - there is or was a Scoundral duo on my server who ran WZs pretty constantly. Between the they could melt any target, guard or no guard before a healer could save them unless they went for a pure tank jugg ot PT wo popped all CDs. Im not saying your sustained dps is ZOMG amazing but seriously a spd op is not bad.
Your exmaple of a 3 v 3, heals/tank/dps is a recipe for a stalemate. Heals and tanks run together so generally you will have to contend with that and one dps and tank is not enough dps regardless of the class to take down a guarded healer. The other side of the coin is that your tank/heals combo engages their tank/heals combo, their dps and tank attacks your healer. Its a stalemeate now. There is not enough dps form thei tank and dps to break your guarded healer/tank combo. So you peel off and approach their tank from behind and target him - leave their healer he is secondary for now. Talk to your team - co-ordinate a CC on healer then burn the tank. If the CC breaks have your tank interupt/disrupt the healer. With luck the tank is dead or close to it and you can control the fight now. it may still be stalemate but this may cause them to call for help thereby helping the rest of your team...... so its a winning play....
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Quote: Originally Posted by Henu
Reply
1 - healers are in Most WZ's, and good ones do look after the team. (Most healers that PvP are PVE oriented. You do get occasional healer that can heal during matches and they are far and few from the norm. Your Friend is an exceptional healer and I would give him the credit for the high numbers you got in that match). You can tell he was running around like crazy and healing people by the badge numbers he got.
2- Tho Lotta the healer is a guild mate, he wasnt focused on me the whole round, if you look at the numbers the team had few deaths. (Noted)
3- died 4 times to how many kills 53 is it? (All this tells me is that the opposing team wasn't focused on you like they should have. You can see this by the healing matrix of the other players and there death ratio.) Bad teams are bad but this wouldn't of happend on a focused pre-made team. You would of been shut down in a heartbeat.
Here im giving you proof we can hit these numbers and yet you still doubt me.
Questions answered in RED and Yellow
My complaint has never been about DPS. I have stated in the begaining of this thread, that Merc DPS is fine but my complaint comes from Mobility and Survivability issues. I feel the class is lacking for competitive PvP.
Questions answered in RED and YellowMate - the guys telling you he can get good numbers in most warzones through his playstyle. I can vouch for consistency, I group with the guy most nights. You guys would be better off asking how he did it rather than trying to pick it apart for flaws and faults that you think are there to support your arguement.
A post earlier said something along the lines the a player on a merc did well in VS, NC against a mix of ranged and healer teams and got melted in a HB match against 4 maras and 2 juggs. Any class would have that problem, not just merc or a ranged. 4 maras and 2 juggs will own HB. Its their jungle.
In short - listen and learn folks. A merc or two is a valuable member of a WZ team - if played correctly.
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Anyone saying "I post this many damage points in a WZ consistently" is missing the point. If I Vital Shotted 8 players all game long, I'd get pretty good damage numbers too because I can just run away and stealth while they tick and start over.
I didn't contribute in the slightest, however, despite the scoreboard numbers appearing high. A DPS class being good depends on how it feels to kill an enemy; how fast they go down, how much effort it took you vs their effort, how many consumables you had to use, etc.
Scoundrel and Operative DPS feels bad because as soon as there's one good heal more than us (a medpack where we have none, a heal or two thrown our target's way) we have no way to outlast and a very long cooldown Vanish to escape. Can't outlast, can't escape, can't win. The problem is that this happens too often and even let's say in a 1v1 on an opener in CW... A pure DPS spec isn't as good 1v1 as a hybrid that can self-heal and do respectable damage, similar to how tank spec Shadow/Assassin is just better 1v1 than the pure DPS spec without the durability.
When 1v1 is the norm in this game I will agree with you. However, this is 8v8. You dont bring a glass cannon to a fight and expect it to tank and survive a long fight. You bring said glass cannon to kill folks. While a concealment op cant survive a loing fight solo, with a tank (hybrid or pure) or a healer (hybrid or pure) he can last long enough to melt a target. A sin tank and op conceal combo is lethal for stealth hits, a jugg tank/dps plus a conceal op is lethal for 2 v 2.
You guys need to get it through your head - this is not 1v1. You are not expected to take on a Hybrid sorc solo or a tanksin or a tank+healer combo. An conceal op has a very similar role as a decption sin - hit hard and fast then run like buggery if this goes wrong, find a target that has his attention elsewhere and kill him. A combo that works for us is to have one or two engaget he defendets at a node - op stays in stealth until the defenders are engaged - co-ordinate a ravage or similar on one target co-insiding with the op opening and booyaa dead defender - now its 2 v 1 and you should still have CC available.
Oh and good ops/sco can win 1v1 - its just not the norm.
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Hi,
Ops concealment dps spec is awesome. I have a guidlie who runs that. Between us we can melt any target, be it tank or otherwise in about 2-3 GCDs. If you want a class that does big numbers then go a Pyro PT or Mara at the end of a macth. If you want a surgical scapel to cut your opponenets heart out then call for an Op.
Sincerely,
A very impressed Jugg.
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Yes. If I get social points do pve quests then I should doing wz. I would like to see a multiplier for premades groups too similar to the pve multiplier.
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inrelation to the OP, a thread which is now deleted that was posted in the CS forum, had a reply from a CS MEMBER stating that the 80 comms for a win was infact working as indended.
Then to find after yet another ticketed entered about a week or so ago, to get a reply i believe over the weekend where the CS respondant states that this was and UNKNOWN ISSUE, and after sooo many bug reports and posts on the subject plasted all over the forums on it...
what the OP is after, and something alot of other MMO's, even "dieing ones", do well is ... COMMUNICATE, even if it wasn't what the community wanted to hear, they at least knew which way the cookie crumbled!
and I think a blue cleese would suite you better BT
^ This.
We've had issues where the same ticket sent by different guild members will recieve a different response.
Example - We had a guildie power level a Sin to 50 for WZs. Bought some stalker BM gear for a dps spec then changed his mind and asked for a swap to tank gear as he made a mistake. As far as he and we knew BW allowed one or two item swaps for comms if they were an incorrect choice. The response from BW CS wass 'no, you waited too long'. He waited at most a week. That same week I put in a request for a pair of WH Tank jugg boots to be swapped for Vindicator boots. I have had them for well over a month. Next day I find a pair of Vindicator boots in my inventory and a nice email from CS saying essentially 'no problem mate'. Im happy with my outcome bu my guildie is spitting chips.And he should be too.
Discrepancies like this just annoy people. You have a policy for this then stick to it. You have in game CS people, then they should know the game and the policies that you have in place. Consistency is the ke here. I dont care if you make a bug to fix another bug. Thats fine - just be honest about it and say 'sorry, we'll fix that'. I dont expect perfection. We expect a good service.
Though to be fair I would avoid the forums as a CS rep - so much QQ directed at BW. Its a good game with good potential but geez, BW can really p*** people off at times.
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I encourage everyone to use their CC, knockback and any other stun you can the moment a jugg jumps at you. I am a vengenace DPS, i will enjoy your tears and QQ when your CC doesnt work and my ravage takes a 1/3 or your health.
Whoever designed dps specs for Juggs was brilliant. You have one spec that needs to have a quick knoockback or stun to neutralise them (Rage spec) or you gte pawned and one spec that spcifically counters that counter (Veng spec) and can provide some intense pressure on squishies. It actually requires some thought to defeat.
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Would you guys like some cheese with your whine?
The point he is trying to make is why can't we have a transparent answer. if there is a problme or bug simply say so and we all know and can deal with it. If there is no bug and it is working as intended then that is fine but misinformation and inconsistent answers serve only to irritate and annoy players in general.
and yes some cheese would be great thank you.... do you deliver?
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Veng Jugg FTW.....
Its the talent that makes Jugg dps viable in PVP.... i am un-CC-able....
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Why woudl you remove huttball. it is the great equaliser. IN VS, ACW and NC, the better geared team has a strong advantage. In huttball, its the player that is the determining factor. In no other WZ can a recruit geared player dominated.
On the worth of certain classes in huttball. Sniper/Pts/Ops/Sins/Sorc/Mercs/Maras can all own mid like a baws!. Tanksins/Juggs/Sorcs/Tank PTs/Maras make great ball runners.. See... lots of classes can be valuable.
Though to be honest, my Veng Jugg dominates Huttball. Especially with my Sorc buddies.
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A good Merc is a valuable member of a RWZ team. Our Mercs can consistantly do 300k, up to 500k on a good game. This is all single target.
A bad merc will try and heal himself and run around all day thing he's an Op or something similar. You're not! You're a turret - so shoot people dont QQ just pewpew.
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Dear god... can you get over Pyro PTs .... they die, its easy. A PT will not survive a co-ordinated attack.
First it was OPs made me unsub, then it was Maras (and still is) and now its Pyro PTs..... Are you really that bad? A Pyro PT is a beserker - high damage, medium defence. His heavy armor will provide maybe 30% kinetic/energy damage reduction and his energy sheild ability 25% damage reduction for a short time. Thats all. He has one stun and one pull both on long cool downs. Just call out kill 'so and so' and kill him. Simple. Its not rocket science. there isnt a call that cant kill a Pyo PT. Yes they will melt you if you stand still but so will every other dps class.
You izt a baddy......
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Seriously, I can play my class and I do it quite well even with the chips stacked against my class but I highly doubt you ever broke over 400K let alone 500K in a match unless you had a healer and playing against level 50 noobs. However I did play against a Vanguard that had 600K DPS in Voidstar. To me that is insane but it was neat and made me jealous that I didn't go PT.
However I am attached to my character and he is my main so I do care about this class and all I am giving is my honest opinion of what I think is wrong and I am not the only one who feels this way.
He does 300k average in rated and normals. 500k in a long match. Arsenal spec.
Simple learn to play. Play to your strengths and work as a team. It's not 1v1 it's 8v8. Adapt
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/signed
I miss Ilum
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pugs are easier but seriously.... two juggs and two sorcs will own huttball.....
Nice video - couple of mistakes. You should have force pushed the first guy towards their line then leapt.
/thread
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Look at the try hard PVP'rs posting screens of bad set ups.
Brb tunneling my way to 1 mil+ damage in some random wz with 7 healers and calling myself good even though I backpedal and click all of my abilities.
I hope cross servers come soon because it's apparent that if that guild is the best on your server, that's a pathetic server.
:rolleyes:Sure mate... pathetic server... right.
You dont need every ability bound. About 6 or 7 will do. Lot of assumptions made there: back-pedal, clicker, keyboard turner..... really if he has a high rating - hes good. Enough said.
I'm done. The elite Pvper has set me straight.
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I absolutely agree, every class does have some nice tools. Powertechs simply have the best compliment of tools in terms of offensive viability.
But they can die like everyone else. You kill them they dont hurt you. Its a team sport. or should be. Theres no point calling for a nerf on an offensive class, when they have little to no defensive CD's, cant stealth or leap. Yes they have grapple but that does not improve mobility, it brings the fight to them not them to the fight.
And you're right about incindery missle - my bad. My wires got crossed somewhere.
Assassin - damn didnt notice that.
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Give us the survivability of an Assassin or a Marauder and we can talk about dps nerfs.
Scrubs giving a **** about Pub Alderaan games where mid is not capped and almost nobody dies all game. Wow...
Don't tell the bad the secret. They think Pyro PTs are immortal....... next you'll be telling everyone that dps Ops are still viable.... sheesh
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Spec? I have a friend who would love to know.
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You realize we're talking about Pyros, right? Who basically just tunnel a target down? The AOE damage and DOT damage they do is insigificant in comparison to a madness sorc or Lethality OP/Sniper. Essentially, they're a single target DPS class, obliterating even AOE DPS classes in DPS.
They have high burst, no cast times, great mobility, and easily managed resources.
DoT damage for a pyro accounts for about 30% of their damage overall. Run a parser and you'll see. Combined with their AOE they can proc burning on a number of targets, hence inflating damage done. While yes they do tunnel down single targets, especially tanks, a lot of damage comes from 'fluff' DoTs....
btw cast time for incindery missle...... just saying
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thanks bt but i never really pull any big damage rofl. Been playing carnage since ranked and it's not great for DPS. If there's one thing I learned from swtor, however, is to never take the forum seriously.
Look at this screenshot:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1255/screenshot2012060721120.jpg
Now tell me sorc heals have a problem.
Oh and that mercenary heals need buff.
Honestly the only class that deserve a revamp is mercenary dps and it's only the arsenal spec because it's just so brain dead to play.
Everything else is fine and if you have problem beating anything at all it's mostly a l2p issue.
But but but Forum trolling is so much fun.
You guys are good.. no denying the fact. I look forward to trying to kill you more.
Merc dps did get a buff in 1.3 but I think is was a sneaky one. Our mercs can post 300k regularly on a short match and 500k on a long one. Its all Arsenal and all single target. Simple to use but difficult to achieve, or so I've been told. Never liked the merc play myself.
I completely agree about class balance. Pretty much every class is fine. They have specific roles and ways to play. Its great. If you play to your advantages, like Carthy and co, then you will beat the other team 90% of the time. If you fluff around chasing numbers or QQing then you are a bad and you will be eaten alive. Enjoy.
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I've not seen any other class, full augmented War Hero or not, put up a million damage since 1.2. The screen shots posted of Carthy and Amatsu (SP) is a great indication of how easy it is to sustain their damage throughout a warzone. The next highest DPS classes on their team are doing half of the output. Its indefensible, seriously.
I've seen Rage and Mara Juggs, Lethality OPs and Sniper and the usual Maras and PTs on my server post 800k plus on a long Voidstar and CW.
I've seen Mercs/Sorc, Veng Juggs, and Stabby ops and hit 500k regularly from range.
A Mil damage is DoTs and AOE... its 50% fluff damage.
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Can we just nerf Cake?... I say Cake is OP!
But seriously PTs and Maras are not OP. Any good dps can put up big numbers if they dont die..... maybe not the numbers of Carthy or Lordross but still high. These guys are Augmented Warhero geared and have been for a while.
Equal gear
How to kill a Mara - Saber throw - Force push - ravage - shatter - impale - force scream - couple more attacks - force choke on undying rage - finish him!
How to kill a PT - same as above but without undying rage. You may want a healer or tank to help though.
You'll probably lose 1 v 1 but with a moderate amount of heals you'll do fine.
Class Feedback
in Guardian / Juggernaut
Posted · Edited by blue_talon
I run a pure Vengance Jugg for PVP.
1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?
Im a healer melter.... healers hate me. Its lovely.
In general most people find the Rage spec to be a very painful spec to defeat for soe and very easy for other. Its generally a feared spec. Veng is the most commonly run jugg spec in PVP and most people find it difficult to counter it as they are so concerned it is rage. The Immortal spec is very hard to kill but its dps in PVP is abysmal. and it is percieved that way.
2. How do you perceive your own spec?
I love it. It has good function and single damage and I have some good utility through intercede and force push. The free smash is very useful for cap control.
Running Pure Immortal in PVP is very difficult due to the lack of dps or burst. While you can contribute slightly, I would like a reduction in the CD for retaliation or a buff in damage.
On another note - shielding in WZs need to be looked at. A lot of classes bypass shields completely, making them less effective then they should be.