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    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    On 10/14/2022 at 8:20 PM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

    Hello everyone, 

     

    Shabir here and I am a Gameplay Designer on SWTOR. I wanted to start by saying we appreciate everyone for taking the time and effort to give feedback on the changes. I wanted to explain some of the changes we are making in the upcoming patch: 

     

    Lightning/Telekinetics:

    • Patch Notes:  

    • Convection/Clamoring Force - Critical hit damage bonus goes to 12% (down from 15%).

    • Thundering Blast/Turbulence - Second arc of damage deals 20% of Turbulence's damage (down from 25%).  

    • Storm watch damage decreased by 4%

    • Halted Offensive/Power of the Force cast time increased to 3.0 seconds (up from 2.5 seconds). Alacrity still affects cast time. 

    • Decrease Halted Offensive’s/Power of the Force’s damage by 15%.

    • Convection/Clamoring Force - Thundering Blast/ Turbulence grants Reserved Darkness/Reserved Light, making Dark Heal/Benevolence an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.

    • Thunder and Lightning/Incoming Turbulence ability mod have their damage increased to 10% (up from 5%) and includes Halted Offensive/ Power of the Force.

    Developer Feedback:

    • Lightning/Telekinetics is exceeding our DPS targets as a Ranged Burst spec role. For this reason, we are making the following changes:

      • Halted Offensive/Power of the Force cast time increased to 3.0 seconds (up from 2.5 seconds).

        • An increase to cast time allows players to not feel as if they have to hard cast this ability especially in situations that require mobility. 

      • Decrease Halted Offensive’s/Power of the Force’s damage by 15%

        • This change was made to bring the ability’s damage into line to its intended damage value and bring the Ranged Burst spec’s damage correctly into line with the DPS targets. 

      • Convection/Clamoring Force - Thundering Blast/Turbulence grants Reserved Darkness/Reserved Light, making Dark Heal/Benevolence an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.

        • The change to the Convection/Clamoring Force passive is made in addition to the currently existing passive. The new buff is not replacing the old version of Convection/Clamoring Force. In the future, we will make changes like these much clearer. 

      • Thunder and Lightning/Incoming Turbulence ability mod have their damage increased to 10% up from 5% and includes Halted Offensive/Power of the Force.

        • This change is being made to make the burst option more appealing in comparison to the sustain and utility based option. 

     

    Madness/ Balance: 

    • Patch Notes: 

    • Disintegration/Critical Kinesis - Death Field/Force in Balance and Death Brand/Shifted Balance grant Vitiate's Malice/Warden’s Vigor, giving Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw 20% Lifesteal for 12 seconds. 

    • Force Horrors/Drain Thoughts - Increase periodic damage to 20% (up from 15%). 

    • Lightning Barrage/Telekinetic balance - Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw reduced damage changed to -20% from -25%.

    • Tempest of Rho - Correctly applies 50% chance for Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw to trigger periodic effects down from 75%. 

     

    • Developer Feedback:

      • The change to the Tempest of Rho Tactical was designed to first bring it in line with its original power level. And in addition to that, changes were made to distribute that DPS back into the class itself. 

      • We also wanted to discourage players from prioritizing Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw over Lightning Strike/ Disturbance when proced in order to get the best DPS output. 

     

    Advanced Prototype/Tactics:

    • Patch Notes: 

    • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage reduced by 14%. 

    • Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod stacks damage bonus reduced to 4% per stack down from 5% per stack. (total of 16% damage bonus to thermal det down from 20%). 

    • Serrated Blades damage reduced to 5% down from 15%. (combined into Prototype Rail/High Friction Bolts)

    • Blood Tracker/Triumph damage increase to bleeding targets is reduced to 3% down from 5%. 

    • Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells damage reduced by 50%.

     

    • Developer Feedback: 

      • Advanced Prototype/Tactics is exceeding our DPS targets as a Melee Burst spec role. For this reason we made the following changes: 

      • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage reduced by 14%. 

        • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge damage was reduced to lower sustain and reduce the amount of DPS this ability contributed to an overall parse. 

        • Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge is intended to be a filler ability and not make up a majority of the DPS output on a burst melee class. 

      • Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod stacks damage bonus reduced to 4% per stack down from 5% per stack. (total of 16% damage bonus to thermal det down from 20%). 

        • The change to Power Burst/High Yield Explosives mod was made to bring the mod more in line with the intended DPS increase a player should receive from a burst DPS mod. 

      • Serrated Blades damage reduced to 5% down from 15%. (combined into Prototype Rail/High Friction Bolts)

        • Much like the Magnetic Blast/Tactical Surge changes this change was made to reduce the sustain of the spec.

      • Blood Tracker/Triumph damage increase to bleeding targets is reduced to 3% down from 5%. 

        • The change to Blood Tracker/Triumph was also made to reduce the sustain of the class. 

      • Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells damage reduced by 50%.

        • The change to Lingering Heat/Superheated Cells mod was made to bring the mod further in line with what a sustain mod should give within a burst melee spec.
           

    What will happen after 7.1.1: 

     

    • We are going to be taking a look at the tank balance within the game as well as a variety of quality of life changes for various classes. 

    • We will be taking a look at other mods across classes and balancing them in order to make them more competitive with the go-to options players tend to take. 


    I just wanted to close by thanking everyone for their feedback and hope to keep seeing more of it in the future. I hope these notes added some additional transparency on the changes and that the feedback keeps on coming. And as always balance is an ongoing process and we will keep you all updated with class changes coming your way in the future.

    Take it easy,
    Shabir

    Please be so kind, explain on what kind of DPS metrics you see sorc Exceeding in performance? I mean is it PVE/PVP ? What fight exactly you see sorc being so massively superior? Also do you realise even with that HO hardcast nerf it might still be worth hardcasting it to have highest dps(Not enterily sure but we'll see soon enough) then that balance will make no sense whatsoever. Did you read feedback? How did you calculate the amount of DPS sorc does and has to do ? I really have no clue and most of us here don't understand. If you look in Operations Master mode difficulty, you can see that sorc is doing *okay* but far from being broken or that would require this kind of nerf. If you want to remove the hardcast of HO, atleast buff the Lightning bolt damage/crit chance or something, otherwise lightning will just underperform for the ACTUAL CONTENT, not for legacy nims that you recycle x99 times.

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    18 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

    And getting that upset about class changes isn't?

    Personally, its whatever, but the changes makes no sense pve wise when it comes to Master mode ops. They asked for feedback, and just ignored it, because evidently, they know better. Seriously I want them to take 4 lightning sorcs and go do Gods Nim. Im really curious how it will turn out. 

    But you know what? They never will , because I dont believe they even test performance of specs in Master Mode Operations scenario

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    Hi all!

     

    First of all, I wanted to thank you again for all your feedback. We're reading all of it and we really appreciated the well thought out posts.

     

    I also wanted to share a few changes we've decided upon after doing some additional internal balance and taking your feedback into consideration.

     

    The first note is we are changing the new Madness Sorc tactical from the design in the OP to:

    "Demolish hits all nearby targets affected by your Deathmark."

     

    We are also giving Darkness back their DR on Severing Slash. The originally intended design is still something we want to do, but not without moving that DR somewhere else. You can expect future Darkness changes in upcoming patches to address or re-allocate where their DR bonuses come from.

     

    Although we felt the proposed changes to Hatred were fair, we understand some concern regarding force management based off of the feedback we are reading. As such, we're also making a few additional changes to Hatred. We are slightly improving the Two Time Trouble Tactical in that it will have a proc chance of 60% for non-basic melee attacks instead of 50%. While this won't completely make up for the fact that Saber Strike is no longer part of it, this, along with other changes to Force management we are making in 7.1.1 (listed in my original post) should give Hatred a smoother rotation while requiring less Saber Strikes.

     

    Another change we are making to Hatred concerns changes to another passive mod choice: Hungering Force. It now reads:

    "The critical hit chance, critical hit damage, and life stolen of your periodic damage effects is increased by 10% Whenever you are healed by a Hatred discipline effect, you generate 2 Force."

    It's worth noting that Hungering Force has always generated 2 Force, it's tooltip has however been incorrect since 7.0 launch. However, the life steal component is new.

     

    Finally, a small change for Concealment Operative, increasing the duration of their Tactical Critical passive from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. This will allow players easier uptime.

     

    We continue to read your feedback and work on these balance changes, please don't take this post as final.

     

    Thanks,

    -Chris

     

    I really hope that you reconsider lightning/telekinetics balacing aswell, because what you want to do now to sorc is removing around 12-15% from damage, so sorc ling/tk average dps will go to like 26k rock bottom. I do appreaciate your effort in trying to balance specs, but with that nerf lightning will go below marksman, also rng on sorc is huge, if you have low crits / procs from forked lightning then even with 340 gear your dps will be lower than 30k.

    I dont mind really if u make changes to the spec, but dont make 3-4k dps nerf. I would still like to bring lightning/tk in nim raids atleast sometimes.

    • Thanks 1

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    On dummy it wins out, but I suppose that Cloak of Pain will generally give Anni the edge. But even then, that's still overperforming for a ranged burst spec. I'm not saying nerf it to Marksman level. But around 2k nerf would be much better, can't say much about how these specific changes will affect dps, so I'll defer to you that these are too harsh.

     

    But a small nerf will give a little more chance to something like Virulence. Which is not in a bad spot, but there's basically no reason to bring it over Lightning right now. Bring up Mercs and Marksmanship a bit, and ranged are more or less sorted. Then they'll have to take a long hard look at some of the melees, but that's a whole other thing.

     

    Virulence and IO merc are also viable specs right now, they perform well. Also keep in mind that Viru & IO can multidot and they will outdps single target or chain lightning sorc by far on bosses where is more than 1 target. So it makes sense that they are a bit behind in single target, if they were doing same single target, there would be no reason to bring sorc. And there is only 1 33k parse from sorc so its a dps at its peak, ya you can reach a bit higher, but average dps id say is around 31.5k for sorc and it seems pretty fair to me.

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    You will never find a sorc on top of that but because it can outdamage anni (not fury, you forgot to mention) on single target, it must be nerfed to arsenal lol

    Watchdog VM, top parse on parsely? Oh it's a Lightning sorc! So that turns out to be a damn lie.

     

    Also funny that you compare it to Fury, when I specifically said Fury needs a nerf too in the very post you quoted.

     

    Who's telling you to roll PT or Mara? R4 first boss, you bring at least one sorc (you won't see them topping charts because they will definitely be on console duty, but Lightning is very strong there). Second boss Lightning is your top parsing dps spec (why bother brining pesky melees that have to huddle up with circles, when you can play a ranged and still out dps them). Third boss is a bit kinder to melee. Still every group will bring 1 Lightning sorc at least, too many melees is still a problem. And they're still among the top parsing specs (which a ranged burst spec by design should never be). Last boss is a bit of an AoE fest, and since Vengeance AoE is OP it's all Vengeance there.

     

    Anyone that tells you not to play Sorc in ops is a fool. It's an absolute must to have one on your team if you want to prog R4 hm.

    Lightning is not beter than anni at single target, its very close, but anni is just a little bit better dps wise. That watchdog lightning parse is mine, but its irrelevant, since watchdog takes increased damage, and because of zeal perk sorc performing pretty good in R4 overall(Also its only few sorcs that stand out in R4 not like everyone is able to min max sorc dps output in R4), but for Gods everyone would rather take marauder than sorc. Sorc is currently in good spot, it doesnt need buff or nerf, if they want to get rid of hardcast halted, just change it, but dont nerf sorc by 4k dps, if they are making these changes, sorc lightning is gonna do lower dps than in 7.0 with full 340. Lets say if they nerf it by like 1k dps its totally fine, but there is no way lightning will be viable if it does 28-29k when most of other specs above 32k, it will be just useless like marksman rn

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    Keep in mind, that the point of the game for people to have fun, and the changes you are making to classes going to demolish that fun from the spec. Even thou lightning is currently in a decent spot, still if I go to do Gods from the machine, ill bring PT cause its way more useful.

     

    You guys asked for feedback, we gave it to you, please listen to it. If you think lightning is that strong that requires nerf, please be my guest log in as sorc go to any master mode raid and do it, and tell me whether it actually deserves to be nerfed. Once again, we are the ones that playing the game, not you. So please listen to our feedback that we posted earlier and make some rational changes. Nowadays even Blizzard learned from their mistakes and starting to listen to community feedback. Honestly if all these specs would be viable for all nim content without having an issues to pass specific phases, I wouldnt mind seeing it nerfed, but your current balance changes, aint balacing anything only making specs useless to play. What is the point of new gear,operations nerfs, if u just gonna nerf the specs to the ground aswell? Just keep the power creep and people will enjoy the game more, its not ike this game is full of elitist raiders who want to suffer in legacy nims like Gods in 7.0.

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    Dear BioWare,

     

    I really hope you will listen to our feedbacks and revert/remake some changes. I've been playing lightning sorc for a while, and it is currently in a good spot and doesnt require nerf at all. If you really want to remove Halted offensive/Power of the Storm hardcast, then make it 4 second cast, but instead make it autocrit like thundering blast, this would even things out.

     

    Nerf to stormwatch is completely unnecessary its not that insane leave it alone or introduce a new tactical that is a better option.

     

    No point in nerfing forked thundering blast its like 1-2% of total dps from sorc.

     

    The most important thing is, if you make these nerfs, then later on introduce us with Master mode operation of R4, even with new augments lightning will not compete compared to any other good specs. Currently lightning is pretty strong in Veteran R4, but that is only if person is fully geared, using 5% alacrity buff (Zeal guild perk) and Mastery 6-8% guild buff aswell. But when Master Mode comes out, all of the guild buffs will be useless, and that is atleast -3-4k dps to lightning spec on top of nerfs that you want to introduce that is atleast 12% dps nerf.

     

    If you look at https://parsely.io/parser/stats then you can see on 6,5mil dummy the AVERAGE DPS of sorc is 27770 and highest is 33k, you should never look at highest parse , even highest parse isnt that insane. So lets say average sorc player does 28k dps and you nerf spec by about 12% that is gonna be like 25k instead.

     

    So if R4 MM requires 5-6 dps to kill first boss in Veteran Mode, and Master Mode supposted to be like atleast 2 times harder , lightning dps will not be enough and people will have to bring only meta tier specs.

     

    So in conclusion for content like Gods MM and upcoming R4 MM , lightning won't be a viable spec to play at all.

     

    If you want to Balance things in PVE that try to tune raid encounters differently and not nerf specs to the ground.

    If your desire to balance things in PVP, then try to make a separate stats/talent for PVP.

     

    If the nerfs would be like 2-3% overall, that would be okay, but above 10% makes no sense in current Pve situations.

     

    Also please understand, there are only of handful people re-clearing R4 HM without having troubles and way way more people that still struggle to past first boss.

     

    Just leave Lightning as it is now, it is in good spot right now as a stationary turret dps without much mobility, but if you really want to remove hardcast Halted then make it much longer cast and autocrit when it procs instead, that is currently best solution for removing hardcast rotation, in my opinion hardcast is not an issue, but for a lot of people it is.

     

    Thank you for your time and please consider our feedback, for example im on these forums since 2009, so im a long term swtor player and when it comes to lightning sorc I know how to play the class, but if you make these changes you will remove part of the fun of playing the spec and thats one less reason to continue my sub.

     

    Best Regards.

    Planned Balance Changes for 7.1.1

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    Hi everyone!

     

    We really appreciate all your feedback and have been reading all of it. I just wanted to make a post to clarify somethings accidentally missed in the OP. One is that we missed some Sorcerer / Sage changes, which will be added to the OP in the changes section.

     

    The second is the new AP/Tactics Tactical. I accidentally wrote an older design description to that, which has since been changed. The cooldown reset that would have occurred to reset Thermal Detonator now affects Rocket Punch instead. That part of the tactical now reads:

    "Energy Burst: The cooldown of Rocket Punch is reset your next Rocket Punch costs no heat."

     

    As a final point, the "Reactive Substance" mod change does not have values since we can't communicate that very well on the forums. But power-wise a single stack of Reactive Substance would be similar to one Kolto Waves tick. You can stack it twice on a single target and get 2x the effect whenever damage is dealt to them.

     

    Again, we really appreciate all your feedback! The OP will be updated shortly.

     

    Thanks,

    -Chris

     

    Please re-consider lightning changes, keep it as it is, those changes arent even worth, sorcs will loose like 4k dps and do only like 25k dps as an average player in 340 gear, so its not gonna be viable in NiM Operations, whats the reasoning behind nerfing lightning? Halted offensive ability is not that strong, you also have to sacrfice mobility to actually do damage, so sorc right now is in a good spot as a stationary turret. If u making it 3 second cast, then you should make it autocrit like thundering blast. Well I dont think all of our ranting will change your final decision, but if you making these changes please explain based on what you making it so we can understand.

    p.s

    Right now I have a lot of fun playing sorc in R4 for example and some old legacy nim, but if these nerfs are happening its gonna be more than 10-15% dps loss, which is gonna ruin fun for me and then ill just have to play melee class or quit this game and go back to wow.

    R4 Anomaly Needs a Nerf

    in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions

    Posted · Edited by SpikeSaber

    Every bomb spawn has a color picked from one of the clean consoles at the last hazardous pattern. E.g. the first bomb and blue console. So just go there, stand there, wait for the console to spawn and click. You lose literally 0 seconds.

     

    I am aware when they spawn and which colours are always first on each bomb, but my point is even if u do it super fast you have like 4-5 seconds to kill the bomb, yes thats enough and we do it in time, but we would have more time on it if there wasnt stupid gcd on the console, especially when you do next bomb there is double gcd so thats few seconds loss right there and doesnt matter how fast you are. Instead what they should have done, so f.e you start with bomb with blue colour first, and then lets say next colour is green, and you clicked red instead that would make bomb reset the shield and you would need to click it all over again, I think that way it would feel more punishable, but if u do it correctly then you would save couple of seconds of time.

    Rav & Tos question

    in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions

    Posted

    It doesnt take long, but they need to focus on it, since they dont it would take long.

     

     

     

    That was still the fired Ben Irving in charge. When Keith came he set things straight and they made NiM ops, like they were supposed to.

     

    Oh yeah, it makes sense then. But the idea of having SM and HM was pretty good, since on release ToS HM was actually nim level raid.

    R4 Anomaly Needs a Nerf

    in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions

    Posted

    it does need nerf in HM

     

    droid and boss HP mostly

    also having the droids spawn faster ( on 1st set of bombs instead of later? ) would probably be better and tanks would have to do stuff with them in meantime. even though droids do have tank swap mechanic, any dwt can deal with them for long enough thus tanks are obsolete there

    having droids spawn sooner and the debuff be more potent while shorter (so tank swapping on 2, 3 at most stacks is absolutely crucial) would change the fight for the better

    maybe add some tank swap mechanic to the boss himself so tanks are actually needed ?

     

    with all this, you could have proper encounter where every role has stuff to do and dps checks are reasonablea

     

    btw the stupid cooldown on consoles alogn with one´s GCD is just... who came up with that stupid idea ?

    i guess its prevent ppl to spam it like madmen but with 3 bombs, you need 9 clicks and i dont think i ever saw someone to solve it within 15s or so just coz how the consoles work

    i actually think that having faster consoles and/or slightly more time while adding some punishment for mistakes with puzzle would be better design ( as in - if someone clicks out of order, everyone gets stacking debuff of some sorts)

     

    Thing is, back on PTS people were using 340 gear, so in the final tuning of the encounter, they actually tuned it up for 340 gear, that is why it requires 5-6 dps to actually kill the boss. I think biggest problem of this encounter is that Tanks are pretty much useless and I dont think it should be this way. Also the GCD on console is a bad decision , in that case they should have increased bomb cast to 35 seconds, even thou its still doable if you are super fast, but sometimes people can't reach the console in time and it delays the clicking. Also 5 seconds is enough to kill the bomb, but if you de-shield all bombs, its always very close to explosion. I dont think boss HP should be nerfed at all, its fine the way it is, but they could decrease the dps check on last phase by adding atleast 5 seconds for timer.

    I remember in PTS Phase one it was 60 seconds, and even with 5 dps it took ~50 seconds to kill the boss. Hard mode is supposted to be hard, but not overtuned, I manage to kill the boss already, but i can say for sure the fight is unbalanced. But they shouldnt nerf it to the ground, they should make some tunings according to the data and feedback they receive from players.

    Rav & Tos question

    in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions

    Posted

    Bioware, I have a question for you, since we have Rav & tos for a long time since 3.0 came out, why dont you make some extra content for raiders and provide us with Master / Nightmare mode version of it, I am pretty sure it wouldnt take too long for you guys to make that happen. I remember when you only released 3.0 you said that : "We will never do Nightmare anymore and only do SM and HM version of the Operation". But later on you decided to do Master/Nim mode for Operations after all. So my question is will you ever make a Master mode for Ravagers and Temple of Sacrfice or you don't intend to do it and focus on new operations instead?

    Halted Offensive issue

    in Bug Reports

    Posted

    Dear BioWare,

     

    It has been a while since 7.0 release, but Halted Offensive does 15% crit damage less than Sage version "Power of The Force" I kindly ask you to look into that and fix the issue.

     

    Kind Regards.

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