RynZelara
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Posts posted by RynZelara
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100%. In pvp I'm loving this. Obviously trick is keeping close eye on but when done right you never seem to run out. Even when I do get close to running out it tends to be because I've just gone through massive burst and got everyone's HP back enough to give me time to 'throttle' back up.
And this was my one and only major concern with these changes. "Throttling" is really the name of the game in PvP; You've gotta be able to respond to burst damage, but you also have to be able to do slow triage, on top of making sure you roll your DCDs at appropriate times to maximize survivability. Sages are now in an excellent spot to do this, because the HPS output has not moved too much, but now comes in shorter, more powerful windows. This fits PvP ebb and flow VERY well, and could easily make them the strongest healer in a PvP match by a fair margin.....IF they can manage their energy.
The real important thing to remember here is that energy management is key. The almost-iteration where Vindicate had no drawbacks was broken; I could see Sages absolutely decimating the healing slot under those conditions. The addition of Weary (and more importantly, the fact that Weary REPLACES the regen buff) made it so that active management is necessary for any mode of play, but especially PvP. I've not PvP'd since the dev-sponsored testing of the almost-iteration, so I couldn't give personal experience and insight, but it seems like active management would introduce enough downtime (through physical time spent on GCDs and through further split attention of the players) to mitigate the Sages' capability to respond so well to almost any healing situation in PvP, while still leaving them the desirable option for psomeone who doesn't want to specialize in any one form of healing output.
Of course, the outlying problem with this are the people who are reeeeeaaaaaally really good at playing this new Sage build, since I believe that in PvP it has potential to be overtuned in the hands of a few key people who really know how to handle it well. Is that as it should be? I can't say for sure, since I don't PvP. But it would probably be frustrating for the other team, at the very least.
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Personal Experience, your mileage may vary:
First night of HMs with the changes I hated it. Out of Force'd constantly, people died.
Second night, started being a little more proactive with my Consuming Darkness. Begin to pay more attention to how many stacks of Force Surge I have at any given moment. HPS slightly higher than pre 3.3.
Third night, deciding on how to spend Force Surges, either for CD or Reviv becomes a primary focus of awareness. VERY proactive in Consuming usage, begin using one CD at 70% force to bump me back up in the 90% range and keeping myself there until "burn" phases where I need to pump out healing. Throttling up and down is VERY effective. During down time use Force Surge procs on CDs to ramp up Force pool, burn phases use them for Insta-Revivs. Outcome: 300-500 HPS higher than pre 3.3, no gear changes depending on the fight.
I like this change. A lot. Took me til the third night to get it all worked out, but I'm looking forward to my raid times this weekend.
^ This. Hopefully people will actually try to understand new mechanics (actually requires less raw actions than before) instead of just dismissing it as terrible because they can't keep their force up the way you're supposed to (and are more than capable of doing).
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Given the way the skill cap works on sages and how they essentially sit between scoundrels and commandos in terms fo healing extremes, I've always felt that a top-tier sage would be the best "all around" healer in the game. There's no question that commandos can still out-single-target a sage in a burst window (say, 10-15 seconds). There's also no question that scoundrels can out-HPS-machine a sage when they're allowed to just trickle overheal. But as far as a generalist healer goes, I believe a properly played sage is the best of the three, and I believe that is how it should be.
That's kinda how I feel also. They can't ST as well as a commando, and they can't HPS-machine like a Scoundrel, but as far as being a good, solid healer, they are in a nice place right now.
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Thank you for your kind words. I would like to note though that my initial impression over the live version stands, now that I had more opportunities to go on doing the stuff I was used to and compare it better and that is that the final version is still overtuned.
Just focusing on general healing abilities (not minding about specific fights or class utilities) my position at the moment, and even though Commando and Scoundrel feel to me a bit better too after the patch, is that the Sage is currently the best/strongest healer in the game.
I can't say I can really disagree, since I don't play the other two healers. But if that's true, it can't be by that much. And if it isn't by much, then it's ok by me. I still think Sages can get themselves into serious trouble if not played correctly, which I feel is where the class balance comes in. Better healer, less people who can play it effectively.
Curiously, what would you do to tune Sages correctly from here?
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That's exactly the feeling I get with the new Sage, it feels slowed down due to the fact that NS/Vindicate is taking GCD's now.
But apart from that and the fact that resource pool is less deep now (due to costs and regeneration rate changes) very little changed to the class. The bump in the heals cover for it and if the player is willing to stress the resources to the limit, the player will outpace the "old sage". If one opts to be very conservative with force, probably gonna do about the same.
Hey Marco, you know what most of these responses show me? Exactly what I knew would happen.
The skill cap increased significantly.
And it needed to. The only point we ever disagreed on was one you mentioned already, and that's playstyle preference. I MUCH prefer this playstyle, and jumping back into operation healing last week felt like a refreshing breeze to say the least (my computer had been out of commission for 3 weeks).
Looking forward to more real-time testing tonight, but my initial impressions are very good. The overall HPS and eHPS hasn't decreased, the HPS capability in the short term (1-2 minutes) has seen a significant boost, and even taking two scenarios pre and post 3.3 where HPS is the same, this Sage FEELS more powerful and more flexible to me.
Now that might just be because I'm used to this healing style, but really it's 2.0 Sage healing without the crippling drawbacks it used to have (over-dependency on Deliverance/Healing Trance, health cost, Force Armor costing too much for what it mitigated...), which is perfect to me. I wish to thank you for actually understanding that the devs were set on this playstyle, and doing what you could to see it land in a good spot live, instead of the unbalanced garbage we were presented with initially (TWICE).
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No reason to continue, lets continue on prog. Good luck.
Agreed. Roll it up, let it go, toss it behind us, and move on seems like the best option now.
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Hold on a moment....
Screenshots are required for non-server first clears of bosses, even 5th, 6th, 7th, heck even 10th by this logic? I mean, yeah it's a courtesy, but AoL is a pretty established and (from what I understand) well-respected guild on this server. And people are doubting they can do it after other guilds have cleared it already?
I mean, I despise drama, and this is pretty silly...people should relax. *shrug* Not like it's NiM or anything. Sheesh.
Also, as far as pre-3.0 progression is concerned, I think someone else summed it up nicely. Lvl 50 progression was counted in the 55 tier (under a different color or asterisk or whatever, can't remember since it was ages ago), so naturally one would assume you phase out lvl 50 completely and count 55 under an asterisk or different color or whatever. I dunno. That's why I'm not running the thread, lol. Too much work. >_<
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Veritas pushed ahead in the last 15-20 minutes to steal the win from Heroic Fate. The score ended up being 11,106,718 (Veritas) to 11,034,931 (Heroic Fate). As a member of Veritas I personally put in 25 straight hours yesterday (got 3 hours sleep today) to make sure we stayed in range for either guild to cover bursting. A lot of our members took time to help out and I'm sure everyone is thinking darn it, if I could just did one more thing and we would have seen lead swaps less often or never at all.
My hats off to Heroic Fate, you took our guild master by surprise on your points you put out even when we advised him not to go there when you guys had a 900k lead by time we finally landed (They really need to allow gold key people to click invade and not just the guild master- extended maintenance cost us many hours of points). Honestly you guys deserve a big pat on the backs for a hard fought battle. I'm sure now when you land on a planet you will instill fear in your opponents.
Great job guys, 3 guilds have put up over 11m points now. Very solid.
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I saw this post before you edited, and all you wrote was that you didn't expect people to react the way they did. Why the delete?
Simply put, we wish not to give unreasonable people a chance to cause further trivial and unnecessary drama. So we're just gonna move the thread back on track and answer any legitimate comments or questions people have about this.
It's already been expressed numerous times by both members of Aisthesis and members of other guilds that what we're doing is not any more "evil" than what has been going on for a while now (that is to say, the practice of selling achievements and/or vanity items), AND we are also considering implementing some of the suggestions made in this thread about this. But for now we're just going to leave it as it is in the OP and make any changes in the future as necessary.As a side note, I'd like to say that this endeavor may not interest a single person. At all.
And that would be okay.
Even if people banded together into a super guild and beat the stuffing out of us in a conquest, we'd actually be kinda impressed and happy that the community had the cohesion and drive to accomplish something as a collective unit, even if it means we were on the losing end of it. Why? Because it would speak well of our server community in some respects. And that's something we can all take pride in, because the community here on the Ebon Hawk is quite good compared to some other servers.
A lot of thought went into the development of this. We did not pitch this idea because we want to siphon credits from people. We did not pitch this idea because we want help with our conquesting so we can be try-hards at casual content. We pitched this idea because some people genuinely do not want to apply to another guild, but are still interested in conquest titles. We understand this; We know what it's like to be attached to ones' guild, to love playing with the people in ones' guild, and to not want to leave for any reason.
So this begs the question, "Why charge credits at all?" Again, simply enough: We are not a conquest guild. Our member slots are already quite full as it is, and we are primarily a PvE progression-oriented guild. As such, we simply aren't doing open recruitment on the basis of only wanting to be in a guild that gets high numbers in conquests. Players who join would be expected to contribute more than just that, and heavy preference for recruiting at the moment is on NiM-capable raiders. Surely this recruiting preference is something people can understand, or at least accept as our guilds' right. And as Tam mentioned before, if someone wanted to join as a raider, or simply as someone who wanted to contribute to all aspects of the game and not just conquest, their right for recruitment procedure is just as valid as anyone else.
Is the amount of money too high? Is any credit amount unacceptable? As the OP says, this thread is not the place for discussions like that. We honestly didn't have any idea what kind of response this idea would be met with, since there is a vast amount of variance in the opinions and personalities of people in general. I think the responses have given us some things to think about though, and any information about the price will be updated in the OP if it comes about.
Aisthesis has a large commitment to community and enjoyment. We try hard to make sure that if anyone raids with us, does FPs with us, or anything, that we provide the most enjoyable experience we can for them. This is not some sort of obligation we've put on ourselves as a "large guild". It's one of our driving goals as a guild. We've had plenty of people who had negative preconceptions about us apologize to us after learning how we really function as a guild, and how we interact both with each other and other people on the server. We all (well, most of us) pay $15 a month or so in order to enjoy this game, and even those who are preferred or F2P still give up part of a valuable asset in order to play: time.
So to hear the accusations that have been hurled is quite hurtful, even if most of us won't admit it. Most of the people here who have thrown baseless accusations around have apologized for that, and we appreciate that (please note that I did not say people apologized for their opinions; everyone has a right to an opinion as a human being, although we can all agree that we're capable of expressing said opinions in a dignified manner, and that doing so helps to avoid unnecessary conflict).
Again, any further questions and comments about this arrangement are welcomed and encouraged, but please try to keep things respectful and civil from now on. We are not interested in having any arguments with people, so any unnecessarily rude comments will not be met with a response. Many thanks. (Whew, what a long side note...)
~Rosalyn
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That's a fair point. I sort of assumed that with the weekly themed descriptions, bioware was trying to give every area of the game a chance to shine. Maybe that wasn't what they intended at all. It's entirely possible that they intended a huge money sink by making crafting so powerful and thought that it would equalize as people ran out of cash and mats. If that was the case, then they've failed horribly in that regard.
And I don't mean to say that there's shame by winning through mostly crafting every single week or that people have been exploiting, just that it's really ****** game design on Bioware's and not particularly fun or enjoyable for anyone who doesn't like to do mass crafting. It's fun for the few on top who like that kind of content, but everyone else is pretty solidly in the "meh" category. It just seems like a blown opportunity to me.
I rather agree with this as well. <Aisthesis> honestly has only ever done mass amounts of crafting the two weeks we went up against Veritas (and WOW that was exhausting >_<). Every other week we've hovered around the 5-6m area, and though we did some crafting last week (there WAS a bonus for it after all), it wasn't a metric crudton of crafting. We actually pushed ourselves pretty hard doing FPs instead of just crafting all week.
We like the idea of the shifting focus in conquest, and it really provides an opportunity for guildies to be on and do stuff with each other.But that aside, on the topic of "craft-to-win", I personally find it to be incredibly flawed design as well. They really should either reduce the efficacy of crafting, or pump more points into other things so that they even out. I'm not sure what Bioware has planned to fix this, IF they even plan to fix it, but I hope they do.
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Didn't want to derail your thread any more than others already had attacking the offer
*nod nod* Fair enough, fair enough.
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removing off topic chatter
Aww, that was actually kinda interesting....
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Wow, it seems a little cold in here, no?
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Bump because....why not?
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You know, just cause you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. Come on. This is kindergarten ****, you guys.
^ This.
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Veritas is not a PvP guild. Maybe we were at one time, but that was years ago.
Ah, my apologies. I thought you were. o.o Whoops ^_^ Edited my other post to reflect that bit of information. Thanks.
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So you're openly admitting to going in, regardless of gear or skill, going against each other and /stucking against any team that might cause some competition? No, people didn't fight hard, they gave up the moment anything came along and then get patted on the back for winning a race they didn't even try for?
Even if you're not after coms, you're cheesing conquest points to the extreme. You're doing it in off hours that no one is on, it was 5 AM when I heard about it on West Coast time. There's no one on at that time hardly at all, perfect hour to cheese your points, just saying that you're "Trying to make it easier?" so to speak?
Was Aisthesis doing the same thing in the solo queue? Am I the only one finding this a bit messed up?? Nobody earned anything. lol
Sorry but that just makes me sad... *sigh...*
If you're gonna hurl assumptions and accusations, kindly keep them to yourself for your own sake. It doesn't make you look good. Of course if you don't care about that, then feel free to continue, since I'm not your keeper and neither is anyone else.
Regardless, most of what went on Aisthesis-side is crafting, which is normal. We aren't a PvP guild. Yes, some of us were PvPing for sure, but it was hardly our main focus, and no one in Aisthesis backs down from a warzone match. Even if we get paired with each other while super-queuing or something like that, we beat the snot out of each other because that's what warzones are about.
Just because there's a special event doesn't mean we throw fun out the window, even if it means that we get something done a little less efficiently. And I certainly do NOT presume to accuse Veritas of ANYTHING. They put up a good, hard fight, doing quite a bit of crafting themselves, and you're misinterpreting that member's words. He said that if they were in a match they clearly were unable to win DUE to being undergeared, and they KNEW it, then they did what they could to speed the match up, because in the end this was still a race. And I do not hold something like that against them, I honestly think it's efficient considering the circumstances.
Try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Even if you see people fighting each other in 4s from the same guild, don't assume they're win-trading. I like to think that a well-known guild such as Veritas would hold its play standard pretty high, and that even if they were playing against each other they would still fight hard against each other.
Also, so what if they were queuing at 5am? IT'S A RACE! It's not their fault nobody else was playing, and I'm willing to bet they would have RATHER played other people than themselves. I just find your tone really annoying, and although I respect your right to have an opinion and to make assumptions, I certainly don't agree with your viewpoint.
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Faction: Republic
Guild Name: Aisthesis
Guild Leader: A'jantis
Officers: Tam, Rosalyn
PvP: Casual
PvE: Progression
GSF: Light
Role Play: None
Website: http://aisthesis.shivtr.com/
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I am looking for a new server and a NIM progression guild I have the following 55's sage /sorc both heals, sent/mara and a guardian/jugg dps.
Alright, just send an in-game mail to Rosalyn and I'll get with you to set up a chat. =)
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Log: http://www.torparse.com/a/744958/1/0/Damage+Dealt - 4237.35 (hand-calculated)
Character: Rosalyn | Class: Sage | Spec: Balance (2/8/36) | TTK: 5' 53.995s
......That oughta keep you busy for a while Hi'mme. Have at it. =)
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Edited my last post. Still not happy. Ugh.
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Done and done.
We like the idea of the shifting focus in conquest, and it really provides an opportunity for guildies to be on and do stuff with each other.
Sage Force Management Nerfed?!
in Sage / Sorcerer
Posted
I think the "skill cap" comes in the form of actual energy management being inherently harder than NO energy management (which they had before since the healing rotation was all throughput without fluctuation), but I also agree that people who remember this playstyle and were good at it won't see any skill cap increase, and will simply see what Sages needed in PvE, and that's control of their healing output. Now they cannot burst like a gassed Commando, they can't trickle-heal and pump out massive amounts of HPS like a Scoundrel, but they're incredibly flexible due to both their increased raw heal amounts and various raid and ST healing tools. All without changing HPS values too much (which might still have to be determined, some people say the new iteration is overtuned, I think a lot of the eHPS moved from Force Armor to actual raw healing).
I like it currently. I feel like I have way better control over my heals and over the fight, even if my raw eHPS output isn't really that much higher, if at all sometimes.