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Whiskey_jak

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    Follow-ups on PvP in 7.2

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Whiskey_jak

    On 12/8/2022 at 11:24 AM, EricMusco said:

    Hey folks, 

    We’re seeing a lot of chatter about the changes coming to PvP in both the PTS and PvP sub-forums. To consolidate conversations, I’m posting a thread here rather than responding to several threads with similar information. I’ll break down the main points that we’re seeing and address them accordingly. 

    Why are we making these changes to PvP?

    We talked about this during the 7.2 livestream, but I will reiterate the goals here. There are three main goals we want to achieve with this revamp: 

    • Create a positive and engaging PvP experience for all players
    • Increase the overall participation and quality of PvP matches 
    • Offer new incentives that benefit everyone who participates in PvP

    With these goals in mind, this is why we moved to the PvP Revamp as you know it. Which includes the new PvP seasonal structure, queues being condensed into 8v8 (Warzones) and 4v4 (Arenas), and the rest of the changes we have been discussing.

    Why not keep some form of the Leaderboards active? 

    This is a good question and there is a lot that went into this decision so let me talk you through it.

    First, a big one, Combat Styles! Our Ranked Leaderboards were built to pretty explicitly take your class into account, hence why it was organized (and rewards even) were based on Class. That got thrown for a big loop in 7.0 as now you could have more than one "class" (now Combat Style) and change between them. This would have meant even just for the leaderboards to continue as is, would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.

    Second, the leaderboards did not help in creating a positive environment. We absolutely can attribute quite a bit of this to the top 96 rewards as there was incentive for breaking into the top 3 of each class. However, even with that the leaderboards were very frequently used as a method of harassment against other players. These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation.

    These all led to our decision to no longer support leaderboards. Now, with that said we very much understand that being able to flex and compete is a cornerstone of PvP. That is what we are leaning into the Battle Record for, as a way for players to track and share their stats.

    The competitive nature of PvP 

    PvP on any level is naturally competitive as is implied in its own name, Player vs Player. Due to that competition there are always going to be things that happen that aren’t entirely positive. Especially in situations where there are questions of teammates skill or intentions, or just some good ole “smack talking.” We get it. However, our own supporting PvP systems and environment should do everything they can to encourage positive play. The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

    With that in mind I want to end on an important note. This is Season ONE of the PvP revamp. We know it won’t be perfect but that is always the benefit of a live service. It gives us the opportunity to read feedback, see player data, and more to continue to improve the system, its rewards, and even consider additional features to support our goals for PvP. We hope you dive into this first season and we look forward to continuing the conversation on supporting and growing the PvP community going forward.

    -eric
     

     You got rid of leaderboards because you added a feature to the game nobody asked for?  I don't remember ever hearing anything about secondary specs until Bioware announced the change. Who asked for this change? You guys didn't want to figure out a workaround for leaderboards to be viable with your un-asked-for change?  This sounds like something you should have kept to yourself. I've lost all respect for the DEVS.   

    No human being in this world has been involved in more solo ranked matches than myself.  I feel that I have a good understanding of how toxicity has manifested throughout the years, and find nearly all of your reasoning to be completely convoluted. The toxicity I've seen over the last few weeks in regs trump's anything I've ever experienced in ranked.  It's a melting pot of former ranked players, reg stars, and streamers and their hangers-ons.  Everybody being toxic towards each other.  I log in now, play a game or two, then log off.  There's nothing to look forward to any more, anyway.

    In 2.4 (I believe) you got rid of ranked 8's. You used the same type of tactics then; justifying why you have to make changes with false narratives about social metas within 8's.   To be honest nobody cared much, however. We loved the new arena format for ranked.  This time we care.  Years of suggestions and requests made regarding the ability to pick maps in regs and having a way to practice arenas in a regs setting... never heard by you.  These requests were never even addressed by a DEV to tell us why they could or could not work. This was the one change we needed to give people a stepping stone into ranked. An easy addition. Not too easy for you geniuses though, huh? 

    -Grand

    • Like 8

    Goodbye Ranked Community: Discord Thread

    in PvP

    Posted

    1 hour ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

    There are plenty of hardcore people who don't play ranked because its a joke. People throwing, adding to friends list dodging, hopping on alts to drop other peoples elo's etc. Ranked did not have alot of people playing it worth supporting and the devs have just basically said that. Like if you get in queue and it can take hours to get a pop unless you spam get in queue on the fleet shows just how few people you have in queue in a mode that only takes 8 total players to make happen. This change doesn't shock me, you can still queue up for 4's and now win trading and cheating doesn't matter. If you are a good player and play frequently enough people will know. And if your guild really thinks they are good, and then another thinks you are not so good pvp challenge button is there as well. 

    Sorry, but you sound like the typical regstar who doesn't play ranked. While some of those things happened from time to time over the years, it was rare.  Our community was small enough that people knew who was who, and their skill level. Win trading for flair meant nothing. This last season had Ink using a fragrantly bought top 3 account. Nobody cares...

    • Thanks 1
    • Sad 1

    Sin decp pvp

    in PvP

    Posted

    Shadowcraft Package, and Force Training Package are what most sins are using. Double cloak tactical for almost all situations in pvp.

    plz nerf sin

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Whiskey_jak

    Aside, from the false statement that Scoundrel have 10k ticks with Kolto Probe.

    What will Scoundrels be good at? Nothing?

     

    Defenses on Ruffian are weak, nerfing healing capabilities will make them weaker. DPS in Ruffian is weak as well especially when you get your DoTs cleared and have to waste 2 GCDs to apply them (3 if you’re applying Sanguinary).

     

    Ruffian only has Viral Elements to show in PvP. Beside me, on SF I haven’t seen a single Ruffian Scoundrel in Ranked PvP in 6.0.

     

    Serenity and Ruffian are some of the weakest classes in 6.0 PvP. If they didn’t have stealth I’m sure they would be focused hard in Ranked.

     

    If you’re going to nerf sefhealing on Scound Ruffian, you know the only defense they have...

    Buff the DR from Defense Screen drop.

    In the same trait, increase Defense Screen strength.

     

    No Coppes, you are completely wrong. Not only are there tons of leth OPs in solo ranked (on SF in particular) but their dps is insane. They don't have the burst that conc has but with viral elements tactical even two people clumped makes for insane numbers. You are one of the people who gets targeted first because you are extremely easy to kill. Don't let that make you think that all leth OPs are easy to kill or not in a good place.

    Improving Damage Ranked PVP

    in PvP

    Posted

    It's all about continuously pumping out dps while kiting, rotating DCDs, and using all your utility. On Lightning Sorc you need to be lifting anyone freecasting, pulling teammates out of fire, bubbling people being focused, holding your burst cycles for the right time (i.e. hardstuns or when DCDs drop off of people). There should never be a second that you aren't doing something. You can DPS on the run better than any other class. Make sure to always drop your PW at a spot where you can freecast heals on yourself while LOSing people. As to DPS numbers, make sure you aren't pumping your relic procs and other DPS enhancing abilities into people who have popped evasion, reflect, major defensive CDs... Most of this stuff can be practiced in regs. Learn what other classes DCDs look like (the visual look of them and what they look like on the buff bar). Once you feel comfortable with this queue up ranked. If you aren't yet comfortable you'll get a lot of hate thrown at you. Good luck.

    Group Ranked - Bastion - One last Hurrah!

    in The Bastion

    Posted

    Ignore the moron above. There are so many people crying "win-trading win-trading" on this server. I'll talk with my guild this evening and see if they want to transfer over on Thursday to get some games going. We only have about 8 people who play every day and our ranked team accounts for half of our guild, lol. If you see a Sage healer, Vanguard tank and double Shadows it's probably us.

    PvP Guide for the Sentinels?

    in Sentinel / Marauder

    Posted

    I agree with the above poster. If you are only doing 300k damage in non-arena WZs, you must be clicking, on top of doing it blind with the wrong abilities on your quick bar. Oh, and most definitely afk at the same time... Even if you just ran around using master strike on cool down and dancing in between, you would match those numbers. My level 22 sentinel crushes those numbers every match.

     

    Guides make thing so much easier, yes, but spending 10 minutes reading the tooltips of your abilities, all the info on your spec page, and just a couple drops of common sense could help you create a basic rotation utilizing rage/focus and maintaining constant DPS. Also, why would you not have full expertise while grinding coms for pvp gear? I see people without full expertise often and there lack of understanding of, or dismissal of basic knowledge on bolster really gets me annoyed. In any gear spot that you don't have pvp gear, put a 162 or lower PVE piece of gear and it will bolster fully, along with giving you full expertise. If you dont have this gear, you can either buy it cheap on the GTN, or spend 40 basic coms at the Rishi vender. All my mid level toons have full expertise. There is no reason for a level 60 player to not have full expertise.

    *bioware* simple explanation why wz com system is not working

    in PvP

    Posted

    I actually just realized that for a WH Chest piece it costs 3200 WZ Coms plus the 1425 Coms it took to purchase the equivalent BM piece. At a conversion rate of 3 to 1 WZ to RWZ it would take 11025 coms to purchase the WH Chest. Thats 262.5 WZs played at my average of 42 coms per WZ. With my extremely conservative wait time of 4 mins between WZs, that's 74.34 hours of straight WZ play time to earn ONE, YES one piece of ranked Ware Hero Gear.

     

    No thank You!

    *bioware* simple explanation why wz com system is not working

    in PvP

    Posted

    I feel it should be a grind to get what you need, simply because getting top end PVE gear is also a grind, PVP gear should be a pain to get as well.
    Right now there is no comparison between the grind for PVE vs PVP gear. On my freshly leveled Sage I run EV a few times to gear for Karagaas. A few Karaggas Runs lead me to HM EV and Karaggas. After 2 Weeks of casually Hitting a few HM flashpoints, Dailies, and a OP runs I have full Columni Gear with 4 Rakata pieces. Now I'm geared to run the hardest content in the game after only a couple weeks of CASUAL post 50 PVE game play.

     

    Now, transistion to PVP. If i spend two weeks of casual play just doing WZ's for WZ coms I will barely reach the amount of WZ coms I need for ONE PIECE of high end PVP gear. Remember above, i calculated it to take approximately 29 hours (very conservative number) of consecutive WZ play to earn enough WZ coms to buy the chest piece. Maybe I want to buy the main hand weapon... should I plan to PVP in WZs for the next month?

    *bioware* simple explanation why wz com system is not working

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Whiskey_jak

    Rather than 3 run-on sentences claiming that I am going to rage-quit the game because the WZ com system can not be working as intended, I am going to try and give a simple explanation why it is no good as is.

     

    Current gear- 3 BM pieces and the rest are Champion with Rakata Mods and Enhancements.

    1st piece needed needed- BM Chest

    Cost-1425 WZ coms.

    Average coms per match-42 (averaged after playing 20 matches with 13 losses on an Imperial dominant server)

    Number of matches needed for ONE piece of BM gear (not even highest level)- 34

    Average time per match 13 minutes.

    Time for BM piece, not counting waiting time between WZs- 442 minutes, or 7 1/2 hours.

    Subtract 25 minutes for daily mission- 100 coms (same as two average WZ rewards)

    Time between WZ ques averaged out by me on 4/12 (unusually high amount of people playing due to patch) -4 minutes between matches. 136 minutes total for 34 matches.

    WZ times plus wait times- 9 hours 40 minutes

     

    CONCLUSION

     

    In order to earn my next MID LEVEL pvp piece of gear I will have to play 9 HOURS 40 MINUTES of straight of WZs. In order to upgrade this piece to top level PVP gear I will have to play just shy of 29 HOURS.

     

    This is a conservative number with all information calculated on 4/12, when WZs were very active and most likely at the highest point they will ever be at after this let down.

     

    I am not planning on quitting the game because of this as others like to claim to get their point across. But Bioware, I am a faithful customer who does not want to grind for 29 hours for one piece of top level pvp gear (not even near the most expensive piece). Did you mean for people to spend as much time getting one piece of gear as it takes to level a character to the high level 30's???

     

    <Edit> I actually just realized that for a RWH Chest piece it costs 3200 WZ Coms plus the 1425 Coms it took to purchase the equivalent BM piece. At a conversion rate of 3 to 1 WZ to RWZ it would take 11025 WZ coms to purchase the RWH Chest. Thats 262.5 WZs played at my average of 42 coms per WZ. With my extremely conservative wait time of 4 mins between WZs, that's 74.34 hours of straight WZ play time to earn ONE, YES one piece of ranked War Hero Gear.

     

    No thank You!

    Community Q&A – April 6th 2012 Blog Discussion

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I wonder what they say to each other when they skip the obvious questions we want answered to give us answers to questions most of us could not care less about. Is this practice something that's done, but not discussed around the office out of shame? Or, maybe they give each other high fives and laugh at the fact that they have the power to answer questions we are actually concerned with, but instead answer 3 more questions about reverse engineering...

     

    I am very concerned about DPS Scoundrels in PVE. This mysterious "target" they keep referring to is such BS. It is the perfect response to give because it insinuates that they are fine tuning our DPS now and it is close to perfect, when in reality they must know that the Scoundrel/Operative class is screwed up. In PVP I have no complaints. Scrapper Scoundrels do just fine for what their role is. However, in PVE, specifically Operations and HM flashpoints, Scoundrels are a joke. Sustained DPS is impossible and I have to weave in flurry of bolts so much to keep my energy regeneration up that I barely do any DPS. My balance sage, on the other hand, can continuously pump out huge damage with TK Throw and presence of mind procs, (though the rotation is so boring and repetitive) virtually ensuring never ending power... Both of these advanced classes, specced this way, are considered DPS, and Bioware claims that they should be within 5% damage of each other. This is such a joke. Scrapper Scoundrels far out damage the DPS specced Sage for a very short burst, then DPS drops way down. In case Bioware forgot, Boss encounters in Operations last about 5 minutes. The Scrapper Scoundrels' good DPS is spent in the beginning of the fight, forcing it to use Flurry of Bolts mostly the rest of the time. All other classes can pump out high DPS throughout the whole fight! How about you address this problem. I am sure the answer to why DPS Scoundrels are so terrible in PVE would be much more interesting than the rubbish you choose to discuss in these laughable Q&A sessions.

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