Lord_Galadrind
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Posts posted by Lord_Galadrind
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I play a Juggernaut, and in a recent Torvix run with the healer I usually run with. She started complaining that since she can cc that she should pick her own target to cc. And then proceded to cc whatever she wanted ignoring what I was asking her to cc. My normal strategy as a tank is to tell my cc what they need to cc before I pull so that I know, what I need to get aggro on. Then I leap in, and generally use smash on all the un cc'd mobs if I can. It just seems difficult for me to do my job when she is doing whatever it is she wants. So I guess Im asking which one of us is right?
You're both wrong.
You're wrong for asking a healer to CC anything prior to a pull until they are good & ready after initial spike damage has subsided post-pull... Healers should not be asked to CC & agro EVER ! This tatic only ever rarely works with well formed groupd who know each other & have voice chat...otherwise you leave the healer alone to do their job...Heal !
She is correct for at least trying to lessen her healing load & CC...however she is also in wrong for at least not marking her CC target...you as the tank are left wondering what is going on & as the tank you need to have an understanding of it all.
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not an entirely appropriate parallel. Custer's last stand was with enemies.
and while the vocal population of healers are generally hostile, we're not enemies of BW. at least not 100%, not yet. we are not bent upon the destruction of BW. In fact, our suggestions are in trying to save BW from a mistake (more specifically, to help them revert the mistake)
The bravest thing a person can do, is to admit when they made a mistake.
when you know you've made a mistake, and everyone else also knows you made a mistake - the act of pretending no mistake was made, only serves to confirm other people's opinion of you as a fool.
What leads you to comment & believe that BW thinks they made a mistake ? The vocal few healers that post in this forum constantly certainly think so.... undoubtedly.
However I don't recall seeing anything from BW stating they believe they have made an error in judgement or mistake.
If BW have not stated anything then you are not trying to correct a mistake , you are trying to argue your point of view & convince them that they have made a mistake, there is a distinct difference. An argument that appears to have gained nil traction and more importantly any kind of acknowledment from the people that matter either pre-ceeding , during or post 1.2.
Flogging a dead horse 100 different ways for months & expecting a different result is possibly more attune to foolishness.
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But most importantly because this game didn't just mean jack **** to us, at least until we found out we meant jack **** to the game.
Gratz you're getting it....finally !
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and it takes a person(s) even more "special" to make those special persons who like healing... Hate it.
(just to be clear, i guarantee with 100% certainty i am not referring in any way, shape, or form to any sw:tor players.)
roflmao
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Uh, yes, as will the other healers. Welcome to MMO balancing. You'll go from UP to OP in no time, and other classes will have the reverse happen. Everyone will cry, the sky will be falling, then it will be forgotten in a couple of months.
Exactamundo and the same ones that have been QQ'ing for weeks & posting thread after thread after 'supposedly' unsubbing will re-roll play an Tank or DPS alt until that particular class / roll cops a swing of the nerfbat. Then they will undoubtedtly moan & whine constantly about class X.
Its certainly nothing new in MMO forums......FOTM procrastination
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So basically ignore the dozens of threads made by same players on the PTS that showed the BH healing is down over same 25 people spam posting across the board for two months and there was zero "under the hood" changes made to help balance it.)
If there was going to have been any real change it required more than 2ppl putting in the time to do testing & the other dozen parroting 'don't nerf me bro'
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The problem is how People won't stick around long to play characters whose game-play is dull and increasingly takes skill out of the equation.
X
Of course dull is in the eye of the beholder and what you may view as dull I could view the new healing mechanics and resourse bottlenecks as strategic play that actually requires planning & forethought where practicle. I view the skill cap as having the bar raised in 1.2 that the 'attuned' players will strive for & achieve verses thoughtless 'highest HPS I win whackamole' epeen healing. That to me personally is 'dull' and gets old real fast.
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Yes definately will continue healing when the opportunity presents itself, my guild is looking forward to 1.2
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Which begs the question, what is *prefered* from tanking community regarding managing threat in ToR .
-Mindlessly spamming one of your taunts on CD (saving the other for when you actually need to taunt.) Is this really considered 'managing threat' , interactive hitting a button every X secs
or
-Having a *vengeance* type mechanic , completely negating the need to do anything pro-actively to maintain threat. Which inevitably leads to 'round everything up AoE spamfest <yawn, go make a sandwich> tanking.
or
-Having to maintain a focus on accuracy 'roll to hit' in gearing , spec , rotation & somehow stay within the 'ball park' on threat as DPS classes scale exponetially.
Without increasing Tank DPS levels to match DPS spec levels (think of the PvP imbalances if tanks had the survivability that comes with being a tank in addition to having comparible DPS as a DPS class)
Where does the compromise lay, what is the most interactive, interesting solution ? That is only 3 possible threat mechanic scenarios , what are your thoughts on others ?
Somewhere in middle of OMGZ mobs running everywhere hitting everyone BUT you <------------------- to ---------------> <yawn> hey guys I been afk for an hour OoO look I still have agro.
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Hmm with the departure of ppl like Gankstah & Kitru the tanking forums are devoid of any meaningful discussion.
I guess in part tanks arn't really being touched *too* much in any *real* signifcant way PvE wise with 1.2.
Share some stories
/discuss
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Just a FYI for all
in the PTS 'How to Post Thread' Ambergreen speciificallly recently edited wording from
'this is for bugfixes only ,please only post firectly relating to bugs in current PTS builld yada yada limit comments directly to yada yada keep feedback only relating to intended changes "
to wording more along the lnes of feedback on the new changes and any NEW bugs that may exist on the PTS related to these changes.
In addition her other PTS threads have been edited with large boldtype saying changes are not final yada yada
Implying that rather than just concentrating on the *package* they *may* now be taking constructive critisism onboard from the playerbase now as well and not just limiting themselves to 'bug specific feedback from PTS testers only' but the perceptions of the community as a whole.
Well thats what I take away from it, maybe analysing her comments too much ... although it was a definate subtle shift in wording & projected attitute though.
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The test server is for checking their changes for bugs. They are not, and have never, considered feedback on the changes themselves. Beta proved that.
QFT unfortunately 99.9% of forum population do not , or rather will not accept this even when BW say so in plain English .
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No idea if this thread from PTS will get buried or start to get some real answers from testers. Just linking here in case any new information on this comes to light.
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I look at these healing changes across all healing classes in a slightly different light.
Cast your memories back to that 'other' game for a minute. Remember the unlimited resource spam fest that was WoTLK for healers. Spend every GCD casting highest cost spell, unlimited AoE.... whackamole.
It was *BORING*
Then Cata came along & the big B took the stance of severely limiting the resource you used, how you used that resoure & how you recovered that resource.
In its inception it was the best thing to have ever happened in the healing side of that game. Granted with stat inflation , extra tiers it went back to square one again now heading into their next panda xpac, but the big 'B' has always had issues keeping stat inflation in check not just for healing but for all three roles.
Look deeper into the 1. 2 changes , on the surface it certainly seems that the philosophy is very similiar to the other game. Not 'change the math (not too much anyway), co-efficients etc etc' but rather 'limit resources , force management of those resources etc. This will of course still cause alot ongoing discussion but the focus will shift more towards the separation of 'good healers' those who understand this, & those you don't & suffer the consequences of resource starvation.
Good will understand that you can when the situation calls for (& not limited by ability constraints/ timers etc ) still be able to heal 'hard' burst for spurts, but that there will be a price & cost associated with choosing to do that. Ability selection & timing thereof will 'matter'.
Just personally I much rather prefere this 'type' of healing style compared to 'unlimited resource' mindless whackamole spamfest monkey healing style'
If this really is BW philosophy behind these current 1.2 changes I certainly hope they also have a plan to manage stat inflation between tiers , because both these things go hand in hand with each other & cannot function in a symbiotic state unless both are balanced together in such a way that as inflation occurs it self corrects in a linear fashion.
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The Crystal Ball says get used to every class AoE heal having a cast time &/or a sizeable 8-12 sec CD...Me thinks many will be in for an unexpected outcome when this tool becomes available TBHLet us hope that BW feels the same way.
With luck they are looking at these combat logs internally right now and seeing what we are saying.
Let's keep in mind that there are a lot of healer changes coming at the same time as the logs.
This is the part that has still missing. Theory crafting from tooltips has its limits. it has all been guess work until now , very thorough guesswork, but guesswork nether the less.
Wait see what the CL's show. I suspect throughput on each heal class will be fairly close now. Surely ppl realised a buff to AoE healing on the stongest single target tank healer required that to be brought down a notch.
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I think their way of improving OP is simply by killing off the other healers.
as a BH, i'm completely at a loss for words on why they felt they needed to nerf us. yeah, we had no heat issues if played well.. but that also depended on having a NON-BH healing partner. if i didn't have an Op to roll hots, or a SI to bubble, the BH mercs would have to chain direct heals, and DEFINITELY have heat issues.
i don't think BW understands their own game.
maybe BH's but certainly not Sorcs.
Sorcs really didn't get nerfed at all. Not sure why ppl in other threads are saying this.
you realise the Force bending got fixed a few weeks ago, this is simply the updated tooltip appearing in the patch notes.
Force surge / consumption change really in the grand scheme dosn't affect HPS O/P. It just requires the Sorcs to slightly modify their rotation or better still HoT themselves or stand in AoE healing....tis no biggie
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Patch notes are up.... interesting changes all around
Tears will flow....whether they are tears of joy or tears of disappointment good on BW's committment... what a mammoth undertaking of a patch
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will we need 2 tank in 1.2 cuz now we can roll all hm ops whit only 1 tank ... and wanted to know if this will be the same for 1.2 ?
Everyone in this thread is talking about current raid content .
OP to answer your question.... yes the new 1.2 raid will specifically need 2 "real" fully tank spec'd & appropriatly geared tanks. Tank swap mechanics are being introduced i.e bleeds , AC debuffs , threat drops etc etc which will dictate tank swaps. This applies to both 8/16 man raid content.
Is likely the same amount of healers will be required on majority of encounters, so its basically bye to DPS spot so a second tank can fill that number i.e 3 DPS / 8man OP
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The main battle tank fulfills the role the British had once called the 'universal tank', filling almost all battlefield roles. They were originally designed in the Cold War to combat other MBTs.[17] The modern light tank supplements the MBT in expeditionary roles and situations where all major threats have been neutralized and excess weight in armor and armament would only hinder mobility and cost more money to operate.
Reconnaissance by MBTs is performed in high-intensity conflicts where reconnaissance by light vehicles would be insufficient due to the necessity to 'fight' for information.[29]
In asymmetric warfare, main battle tanks are deployed in small highly concentrated units. MBTs fire only at targets at close range and instead rely on external support such as unmanned aircraft for long range combat.[33]
Main battle tanks have significantly varied characteristics. Procuring too many varieties can place a burden on tactics, training, support and maintenance.[34]
The MBT has a positive morale effect on the infantry it accompanies.[35] It also instills fear in the enemy who can often hear or even feel the arrival of MBTs.[12]
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Very interesting information indeed. This thread is going to generate *alot* discussion .
He also mentions that even @4M on target portrait range indicator you are still considered range 130%
I would say that once this information becomes common knowledge tanks will be standing smack bang in middle of mob bosses hitbox... making it kinda hard to see WTH is going on around you (without addons).
I also hereby put a tax on everyone that is going to say in upcoming threads
" but taunting is useless in a rotation " hehe (only cos it took us years to educate everyone on that point in that other game) Pat. Pending 231769 IMA GONNA BE RICH !
Maybe Gankstah could add the summary points into his primer, seems the most appropriate place for it.
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3. They just never fix it and go the Lern2play route. (That's kind of what they are currently saying, but I imagine the addition of combat logs will allow parsers to blow this argument out of the water).
Me thinks many will be in for an unexpected outcome when this tool becomes available TBH
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Thank you for this useless post. We are all aware of the definitions of the terms avoidance and mitigation. We were simply trying to explain why the term "avoidance tank" is being used when speaking of Assassins. If you read one of my earlier posts you would have figured that out. Thanks for wasting your time posting this when the debate has never been about what avoidance or mitigation really means.
My goal was simply to correct your errors and educate you in the correct terminology young padiwan. We can see from your now defensive tone that goal has been achieved. I am glad you now comprehend....go forth & tank!
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Avoidance - you don't take any damage what so ever from an attack. Your hitpoints do not reduce i.e dodge, parry, miss
Mitigation - you reduce x% of an incoming attacks damage. i.e blocking, shielding, armor, bubbles. A mitigated attack can be anywhere between 1 - 100 % damage reduction.
Healing - lost hitpoints are restored by x% i.e damage had to have occured in the first place. Any restored hitpoints >100% is over heal &/or an absorb applied to the next incoming damage attack.
There are of course a number of different factors and type of attack i.e physical, 'magical' , bleed DoT etc that will determine by how much any attack will be mitigated / reduced by.
Shielding is mitigation, not avoidance.
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I would assume its because the combination of Defense and high shield/Absorb would mean they avoid the most damage of all the tank classes.
Except that shielding is not avoidance!
Use the group finder!
in General Discussion
Posted
Patch notes up.
group finder is working as intended now. It is for random LFG only for commendations. Pre-mades will no longer receive daily BH commendations, only Col tokens & gear.
lol jk
Group Finder
•Pre-made groups of four players that queue for Group Finder now correctly receive daily mission credit.
•The "Travel Now" dialog no longer fires more frequently than intended.