Goretzu
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Posts posted by Goretzu
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Indeed. But, many of us that have played other MMORPGs have been down this road before and recognise it for what it is. Also, seems part in parcel with the way things have been done with this game from the begining. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" ... riiiiiiight. It's amazing how this game has made so many mistakes that were made in previous games. Don't they study their competition, past and present? I mean aren't some of the developers of this game from other games that have made these mistakes? SWTOR could have been a great game. It will go into history as a game with so much potential that was never realized.
If I were to contain SWTORs failings in a sentance it would probably be:
"Over promise, under deliever, panic and then copy WoW."
There is so much they could have done with SWTOR to build on the great stuff they had (story, voice acting, companions, reasonable PvP balance [ignoring Resolve]), but they really seem unwilling to innovate at all, they aren't even copying the good features from games like SWG or WAR (both of which SWTOR developers come form).
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EVE has a rep system which was (like everything else in EVE) significantly more complicated but simplifying down you had 2 reputations that mattered one for the sub faction (eg Imperial Reclamations Service) and one for the faction (eg Sith Empire) and they affected each other. Higher reputation scores allowed access to better missions and agents (quest givers), reduced repair costs, lowered costs for using starbase facilities owned by that faction and higher rewards for missions completed.
There was an element of equipment in there but it was mostly to do with increasing rewards for completing content. If memory served it also changed how polite the agents were to you but that might be my memory playing tricks.
That was more what I was hoping for -reduced repair costs, higher mission rewards, maybe a weekly milk run mission or two as a reward for your discretion / loyalty. Not grind this new bar to allow you to grind credits to equip another recolour of hideous end game gear and a generic title or two.
Yep, more advanced and more rewarding systems can certainly be done.
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PvP benefit is that the Gree Reputation dailies will involve a PvP Area (Western Ice Shelf) on Illum.
That's a benefit to people who have wanted open world PvP.
It should work ok as an RvR encouragement tool, however it really relies on the framework of the RvR more than the faction grind itself as to whether it works and is popular or not (and the engine being able to handle it, of course).
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how does this look even remotely interesting. hoooray more dailies and a weeks to months long grind lolz. um, no thanks?
Indeed it was boring in WoW back in 2007 (with Burning Crusade) and it hasn't got any better since.
I can't remember the last new and innovative idea an MMO Dev had, but it would have been in EQ1, SWG or DAoC and more than a decade ago now.
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The cap is a good thing i think. It wont let the content be burnt through by players and then its of no use 2 weeks later.
I mean, what you gonna do after those 2 weeks when you have been burning through to get full rep, sit on the fleet and complain again? No the cap is a good thing.
It's not exactly a "good thing", but yes it is basically an artifical block to stretch the grind out (for those that would burn through it).
The idea is you're not supposed to notice that is is boring and pointless if it is cut up into weekly chunks.
I don't think it actually fools anyone, but I suppose it does maybe keep a few subs for a bit longer (maybe).
To me any grind that needs a weekly cap is probably a bad (& boring, uninspired and poor) grind, and I suspect the Devs know this themselves.
To me the rule of thumb would be content that would engage players without needing artifical blocks, I mean there was no weekly cap on faction in EQ1 when you were killing 10,000's of Gnolls to get your toon into Qeynos (or wherever), but people did it because it was an achievement (genuinely).
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I probably miss understood the reputation missions but it looks like its just an encouragement to grind out the same quests?
No, you haven't misunderstood.
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What is the motivation for doing this new grind?
Its a new system that basically asks us to grind lots of old content. Fine. New titles, OK. But why on earth would the majority of the population actually be interested in this thing? I'm sure you do have some rewards for it but you've not even hinted at what they are!!
It is unbelieveably poor marketing to release a blog like this introducing a new grind without even trying to incentivise the community. Sort it out.
It's just another grind, it's basically the same thing WoW did with Burning Crusade (attach rep grinds to EVERYTHING) - which is basically why I quit WoW after BC and never went back.
I'm all for lateral character development, but I'd much rather this be something character based, rather than just a grind for another title or bit of gear that is soon out of date.
The only place where grinds like this really work IMO is in PvP, where it gives you a "rank".
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If you mean not being able to kill people while they're flying, there have been several fun ways to get around that, though I think they've fixed most of them now. These included:
1) Moonkins could fly up and use Typhoon on a mounted person in the air and knock them to the ground
2) Rogues could dismount, Garrote and then use Killing Spree on someone in the air
3) priests could dot-up people in the air and then slow fall down
Yeah it was certainly possible in quit a few ways, but it was much harder to stumble across them in the first place and the effort of doing it certainly seemed to put a lot of people off (compared to ground based ganking).
Flying mounts didn't kill world pvp in WoW, people not wanting to do world PvP in WoW killed it. All the proof you need is when the sunwell patch went live and every high level player on both factions were forced into a tiny island, all that happened on my pvp server were a handful of gank squads killing people trying to do dailys and running away from anyone actually wanting to pvp, everyone else just ignored each other. or you could look at any summoning stone location for raids, the only pvp that happened was when a full raid or more was present against 2-3 others, anything close to equal numbers just meant everyone ignored each other.Yeah, OPvP was largely dead long before flying mounts came to WoW.
Really speaking without some form of structured RvR to maintain it, OPvP almost always just settles to the lowest common denominator (sporadic ganking).
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If BioWare want to encourage more "organic" PvP in contested areas, as State of the Game #2 outright states, they really need to scrap the Expertise system and work on maximizing PvE and PvP gear compatibility.
WAR did it, but that's one of the few level based games I've seen do it, but then WARs endgame was RvR, not dragon raiding PvE, unlike SWTOR.
I can't see how SWTOR can exist without a PvP stat anymore than WoW could.
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Nothing silly about it. They've proven they can do it and I have faith that they can, I blame the holiday for this.
They've proven then can do it twice, they've proven they cannot manage it 8 times so far.
12 weeks was, is and probably always will be just much more realistic.
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Forget it. That guy has no clue how exponentially more complex a fully 3D game world is and why therefore a few features of the old 16 bit era are nearly impossible to do today.
Impossible? Then why are there 3D MMORPGs out there with most of them?
SWG had a lot even.
SWTOR is even simplified from Everquest 1 in many ways, and that was the first real 3D MMORPG.
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I agree on this. Typically I allow for slippage, but really how long of break did they give them? Did they all get 2 or 3 weeks off for the holidays? I certainly understand a week (7-9 weeks), two weeks is not unreasonable (8-10), anything more is too much IMO. Since it's not even on PTS yet unless they are limiting PTS to two weeks they will not meet a 10 week delay between patches.
6 weeks was a silly promise to make (nothing suggested they'd be able to keep it), 12 weeks is what they should have said.
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IWeren't my established characters supposed to receive this too?
Yes they were.
What happened?Bioware EA won't say (literally not a squeek - except for the below).
Should I submit a ticket in-game to get this checked out or is this something that they are working on?Pointless, they'll just tell you to make a new character and post that one to your old character.
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Why does the event HAVE to be only PvP or only PvE, can it not be made to accommodate both play styles? if BE was dropping events on us like they add stuff to the cartel market, then maybe they could be split up, but if they keep to the trend from last year, which was mostly supported by subscriptions and had only 2 events, I don't see an abundance of them on the horizon, which is why EVERYONE is up in arms.
We don't know enough about what is going to happen, everyone is jumping to conclusions about what its going to entail. We should be looking for ways to make sure everyone can enjoy the event. It's what they should be for.
^.^
It's supposedly the RvR relaunch which makes it PvP really.
Having said that the other events (Rak and scavenger hunt) were PvP........... on a PvP server.
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I haven't seen Andryah in months, what did you do with her!
He quit SWTOR, I think he was just playing the forums for most of 2012 anyway.
I don't think it killed it in WoW. In fact my favorite Outdoor PVP memories were in the days of Halaa in Nagrand. Good times.Yeah I'm not sure it really killed OPvP in WoW, it didn't really exist outside very specific areas anyway. It made it a lot harder for gankers to kill AFK people though.......... which is maybe what people mean.
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Yep ... yep ... yep ... but some just don't care to hear it. For them it's all about me ... want ... now ... If the game ever gets flying mounts - cool. If the game never gets flying mounts - cool. I pay to play just the way it is now. If I want true perfection (in anything let alone a MMORPG) I'll simply wait for the all the stars & planets to line up. Or not ...
The thing is MMORPGs didn't use to have mounts, then they did (well mostly).
Some people expect flying mounts as part of that progression (especially if they just come from WoW).
It may be unrealistic, but equally it is understandable.
(and it probably doesn't help that SWG had it before it closed)
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I miss the days where Overgeared players didnt kill lowbies all time just for the lulz.
That was never. Even in MUDs people ganked. It's a bad part of the Human psyche.
Having said that it's not that scary these days, if you're killed in outlaws den the worst that can happen is you may have to respawn at the nearest base. In the old day you would lose exp, maybe lose a level and could be full gear and coin looted.
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There was no flight in the Hero Engine, hence there is no flight in SWTOR.
No real depth at all is there (i.e Z axis)? Hence lack of swiming or more than ankle deep water.
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Well, there's still plenty of time for them to announce more features. Spring is still a long way off. And then we don't even know when in the Spring it will be. We could be 4-5 months from release (though I'm betting on April, personally).
So far, I like the game and am looking forward to more of it. So I pre-ordered immediately. If your experience is different, maybe you should wait. No biggie and nothing wrong with that. Complaining about the lack of an update at this time is fairly pointless, though.
There is certainly, but people are saying if it's time to pre-order it's time to have pretty much all the details, I largely agree (although I think they have).
The most it could be away is 3.5 months if they stretched "Spring" to its very breaking point.
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But its not all that is offered. On a PvE server people could still flag for PvP while doing the event if they want to. On a PvP server it would be PvP. But on a PvE server PvP is something that should only ever be optional, auto-flagging should not happen for a event as making it obligatory PvP goes against the reason people do decide to choose a PvE server. That excludes players from the event in a game that is allows players to choose to make PvP completey optional.
You simply cannot have optional flagging in a PvP zone with PvP events, the explotation factor would be monsterous.
Even in LOTRO which is a totally PvE game, when you go to the monsterplay zone you are "flagged".
Again there have been a few totally PvE servers in a few games and they weren't very popular.
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How many times does this need to be repeated? People do join PvE servers because they DO NOT WANT TO TAKE PART IN OPEN WORLD PvP.
People who have chosen that should not be forced to take part in Open world PvP if the content is aimed at PvE progression (as this seems to be as its for the Gree faction).
And that is an important point, from what we know so far this is not a PvP event, its an event that is being placed in a PvP area. The event is about facing a PvE foe in the Gree spaceship and gaining Gree Reputation which is also PVE content.
Ilum is supposed to be part of the RvR relaunch, so it is likely be PvP (I'd say certain to be - but Bioware EA have a track record of not living up to promises, unfortunately
).If it's not then fair enough I don't see (then) why it would be a PvP zone, but more worrying is then they must have simply given up on RvR for SWTOR altogether.
But really "Gree" has nothing to do with whether it's PvP or PvE or not really, but I wouldn't want to see PvP to PvE as it is a pointless mixing of ideas.
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Well, I have only just got into PvP in TOR and as a new player I love it, even if I am only running dailies for now.
I agree PvP could do with a little more love as regards Open World scenarios etc. But as for it being a gank anywhere always 'overt' game I would have to disagree.
That was the single most annoying and most often complained about feature of SWG, the Player Bounty system. a BH could go to a terminal, take you as a mission and gank you un-announced anywhere apart from in a locked house or on your ship (Cantinas were safe zones too I think).
Ok interesting game mechanic but when you have spent MONTHS grinding a Jedi out only for someone to come along and kill you and 'take XP away from you and send you into debt' was a real game breaker for a lot of people.
Ok there are fans of that system and those opposed to it, fair enough, but what I am trying to say is perma-overt forced PvP is never going to do this game any favours, just speaking from experience. By all means lets see the scope of PvP widened, lets have open areas, hell even full planets, where it is a free for all, but make sure it is a choice, and make sure anyone going there knows you are overt and attackable by the opposite faction.
Doing a RvR relaunch event in the RvR bit of Ilum isn't really any different to doing one in a Warzone, you know what you're doing there, and if (somehow) you don't you can't really complain.
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pretty much. its an illusion of hugeness because unlike SWTOR where you have separate planets, WoW had zones closer packed together on couple of continents. objectively - the only small zone in SWTOR is Quesh. everything else is multiple districts that are part of fairly large zones. even with transports, it can take awhile to travel from one zone to the next.
that said, I have mixed feelings on flying mounts.
on one hand, they are very convenient. you just skip everything and fly straight and save time. on the other hand - you skip everything. most datacrons definitely become trivial unless they require multiple people to access. and it really unbalances world pvp on pvp servers. sometimes, when I'm on Belsavis or Taris, I wish I could just fly over all those dead end walls. farming is certainly easier when flying, since you don't have to fight your way to the node. but in some ways... it takes away something from the world.
so certain conveniences aside, I'd rather we stay away from flying in SWTOR.
SWTOR isn't tiny, but it's not a massive game world either (total square footage - ignoring how it is broken into planets).
I don't think they'll ever have Flying Mount not because of world size though, so much as the design, it you look at the current design there are LOADS of places they specifically and intentionally stop you from going, unlike other non-flying mount MMOs like Rift or WAR or LOTRO, never mind the rebuilt Flying Mount WoW world.
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Interesting, in that case maybe several years down the line we might see a flight update, but I'm not holding my breath, especially with the Datacron issue.
You'll see Orcs in SWTOR before you see Flying Mounts IMO.
Game Update 1.7 Developer Blog: Galactic Reputation
in General Discussion
Posted
I'd never have said this in Beta or in another other MMORPG, but in all honesty allowing you to summon 3 companions in SWTOR to allow you to "solo" 4 Heroics and FP would be a good thing I think.
You'd likely have to overgear them a bit anyway so it wouldn't really affect much else other than opening up areas of the game to solo play.