[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

Edit: Na

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

So?? Bioware is wrong for not making it impossible for people to break the rules??

 

Hardly!!

 

Bioware has done nothing wrong.. If you can't live by the rules, then you will be punished.. Welcome to life..

 

/rollseyes

 

 

It has never been "rule breaking" in any other MMO in history.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

 

As it stands Stephen Reids directly explains what he means by exploit.

 

He directly states they had been exploiting the game by "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

 

AKA Excessive farming - not botting, not duping items, not selling gold, just excessive farming.

 

To clarify "exploit" even further, Stephen Reid explains that :

 

"They also warned and temporarily suspended - but did not ban - a smaller number of accounts for activities on Ilum that were decided to be game exploits."

 

Emphasis on "decide to be game exploits." They decided that "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..." was an exploit.

 

They decided excessive looting and farming was an exploit. There is nothing more to say this is exactly from the mouth of Stephen Reid.

 

With only those paragraphs to go off of there is really nothing more to discuss. It's clear what Stephen Reid said in the OP and it's flat out ridiculous.

 

Can people really not get over the fact that maybe Bioware screwed up here?

 

Edit: Also, once again, this in no way hurts me as a player as I don't really farm excessively. I can surely sympathize with the players who do however.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

I think it's more than just farming the lockboxes. The team just doesn't look at what you were farming but also what you did with the items/credits after.

 

This is not the case. Some people had been temporarily banned and warned for "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

That is why people are upset.

 

The gold sellers are a completely separate issue and of course should be banned.

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No, he does not say that specifically. That would be like the police saying "We have found several people guilty of using the ATM located at [location] in [this way] to gain more money than what one types in.

 

Of course Bioware does not go right out and say exactly what the exploit was in detail. Blizzard has not in the past done so either. Would not be good business practice.

 

And no, I did not make it up. I read about it here on the forums from people who seemed to know what they were talking about, and it sounded very plausible. I have not stated it for a fact - I actually in my original post said "seems to be [due to colluding]..." not "is".

 

Then as it stands Stephen Reids directly explains what he means by exploit.

 

He directly states they had been exploiting the game by "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

With only that paragraph to go off of there is really nothing more to discuss. Bringing up what other people had said in this forum is pretty pointless unless they provided some shred of proof.

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Sure - it's right in his post:

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Emphasis on "exploiting" mine. Do you see now? He does not say "too long a time using loot containers" or "staying too long in one place looting...". He clearly says "exploiting".

 

Now, he does not elaborate on exactly what type of exploit was involved. But a definition of exploit in this situation is using an unintended consequence of game mechanics to gain advantage in an unfair way. He does not in any way talk about normal - or even excessive - "legal" looting.

 

In no way does he talk about colluding with the opposite faction either. He says exploit and explains exactly what the player was doing "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..."

 

Stephen Reid even says "They also warned and temporarily suspended - but did not ban - a smaller number of accounts for activities on Ilum that were decided to be game exploits."

 

Emphasis on "decide to be game exploits." They decided that "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..." was an exploit.

 

That's exactly what he said and there is no reason to believe otherwise until some other proof or announcement is made.

 

EDIT: Did you just make up the colluding with the opposite faction bit entirely or what? If you have proof we could end this silly thread now.

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Sigh. The "systematically and repeatedly" thing Stephen talks about? That IS the exploit involving colluding with the opposite faction in order to INSTANTLY reset the timer on the storage boxex and / or gathering nodes.

 

Stephen is NOT talking about "normal" camping or looting. Can we all now just agree on that?

 

Can you post some proof that it was from colluding with the opposite faction in order to do this? Stephen Reid doesn't touch on it at all and definitely makes it sound as if it was only from excessive farming.

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lol... Clearly this person is new to MMOs and doesn't know what they are talking about. Camping loot drops and rare mobs is acceptable in literally every other MMO in existence. The reason this is a dramatic issue is because people can't believe the stance Bioware is taking on the subject.

 

This isn't Hello Kitty Online. This is an MMO.

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who found the post a bit silly. Unfortunately, many of the posts on this forum post follow along those lines exactly.

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To be honest, I think BioWare were kind of hoping that people wouldn't do this and would actually play the game without the overall goal of making millions and to experience the game more socially and from a story standpoint.

 

This is a rule they have implemented to keep the game balanced and more enjoyable for other players and I agree with it, whether they can get there "Legitly" or with or without 3rd party software its a rather selfish and quite frankly disorderly.

 

This is what I'm having trouble with and others have said the same.

 

You might as well be saying that a person who legimitatly spends hours and hours of their real time farming is just as bad as a botter.

 

I can't agree with this at all.

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i am not saying they were not cheating or botting. i am asking if they were.

 

it becomes a slippery slope for bioware to suspend for what some might consider "normal gameplay" while they do not. to me something may be normal and to them it could get my account suspended. i just want to know where they stand.

 

botting and glitching are not "normal gameplay" i agree but they should just come out and say that if they were.

 

All MMO's in the past generally do just come out and say it. This is exactly why people are concerned and your completely spot on.

 

Why wouldn't they say it was a third party exploit or botting tool if that's what the issue was regarding?

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And how to do you know they aren't cheating or bottomg or cheating? You are arguing just for sake of arguing based on assumptions you made on that phrase "systematically and repeatedly". The way I see it, BW has figures and numbers to back their actions while most of the people complaining are just riding on a slippery slope to ignorance.

 

It is already stated many times, these banned/suspended accounts are doing things far beyond normal gameplay. The only people that are unhappy are exploiters and goldbuyers.

 

This was the exact same issue me and radiata had. Your assuming that Bioware has all the facts and I'm assuming that had it been botting or duping they would have said:

 

"Players had been using third party apps to farm and duplicate gold" (or something to that extent).

 

Technically you might be right, technically I might be right. I'm just going by how previous MMO's have handled similar situations.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

Most gold farmers don't use bots or exploits either. Just leave them be?

 

There shouldn't be anything wrong with farming gold. Selling it, botting for it, duping it, all are very bannable things.

 

Farming gold shouldn't be bannable or temporarily bannable.

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only "systematically and repeatedly" gathering there or looting chests that open to any level player. like the person you quoted suspending people that do it is not the answer fixing it is. you or anyone could have gone there at level 16-17 and done the same thing and not known that you could have been punished for it. and many can still, since most do not come to the forums regularly or at all.

 

Your right - "systematically and repeatedly" basically means players farming loot a lot. They might be farming more than me (thus changing the economy) but at the end of the day they took the time to farm "systematically and repeatedly." They didn't cheat and use a bot/exploit, etc.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

Read it again. NO ONE IS BEING PUNISHED FOR GATHERING THERE!!!

 

 

It says in the quote that a small number had been warned or temporarily suspended/banned (or basically punished).

 

Am I really missing something obvious?

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

"Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Ilum has a RECOMMENDED level of 40+, why should anyone be punished for going there early if they're willing to take the risk for gathering resources there? And if it is such a big problem, WHY can't you just lock the crates to a certain level, like 35+ or something? Come on BioWare, use your resources to fix exploits. Don't leave them there and keep banning people who do it.

 

 

Don't even temporarily ban them. This is exactly what I've been trying to say from the start. Yes, I've defended myself along the way, like most others here as well.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

i think the "credit farming" part to = the gold sellers that they spoke of in earlier in the post

 

Ya that seems to be the case. Either way you're exactly right questioning what " systematically and repeatedly" means. Clearly it doesn't mean botting or they would have said third party app/botting.

 

So the question still remains...

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no personal info would be divulged since they would not have to divulge any to simply say that the ones suspended were infact glitching the chest spawns. no names or personal info would be used.

 

It specifically says in the OP Post:

 

"By comparison, the number of accounts that were warned or temporarily suspended was considerably lower than the number of accounts banned for 'credit farming'."

 

So yes, players had been at least temporarily banned for credit farming.

 

People just want to know the details because generally credit farming is a legitimate thing for most MMO's.

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

Banned =/= suspended

 

If they aren't botting / bug exploiting then they shouldn't be suspended either. We've been over this jeramie

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I have read the OP and every post since and now where did i see Bioware explain taht they were doing what you say they were doing. and i have said it multiple times, if they were then that is fine but Bioware should come out and say that they were doing that without explaining how and the issue would be over.

 

This was my exact concern as well. As soon as people started saying it was for botting/ bug exploiting I was only asking for proof and continue to do so.

 

If they are botting or exploiting "bugs" then yes they need to be banned, obviously.

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wow i read most of the replies and you people are stupid.

 

first off the illum thing was people exploit the slicing/safes by double logging.

no one is being banned for looting.

 

secondly they are not banning people for farming and playing the ah, they're banning credits farmers. you're not going to get banned for farming things and selling them.

 

a lot of this was already discussed in reddit. i feel bad for bw because they're trying to do the right thing and quell the drama as it pops up. it's nice to see them become so involved in their game from the start. too bad their dealing with illiterate wow players who probably read the reply's to the post and not the op.

 

I believe most of the concern was that its unclear what exactly determines if your a "credit farmer?"

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You're ignoring my post. Again. And trying to make appeals to caring about my well-being as a debating method.

 

Just stop dude. Seriously.

 

 

To get back on topic, I am never going to camp a single chest spawn for 7-12 hours.

 

Because that would be stupid of me. Not only do I have better things to do with my life, but it's counter-productive for me. I'm not in the game to find "haxx exploits" to get ahead. I'm here to have fun. Sitting in front of a chest on a barren ice world does exactly fit my description of "fun".

 

I honestly don't understand how I ignored your post. Literally the posts just above us are exactly what I was discussing five pages ago and tried to continue to discuss with Jeramie and others . People are still discussing it, as well as myself.

 

Why are you targeting me here exactly?

[Recent actions against some customer accounts]

You guys both could take your personal bickering to private messages. Just sayin.

 

My apologies and I agree. I thought we had already agreed long back that we just disagree but obviously not : / ....

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It's not a threat. It's a warning. Some of the stuff you've posted is flame-bait that can get reported. Something i've debated doing myself already given how you post in reply to people.

 

You're either not listening, or not wanting to listen. Either way, there's no real reason for you to post in a topic talking about developer decisions if all you're going to do is flame people who disagree with you with comments like "Fanboy!" and "Trolls" and such.

 

That's not what this forum is for. It's for discussing the game. Not trying to start little flame wars on the internet.

 

I see. So because we don't agree with each other, and continue to disagree I should be banned from the forums?

 

All I can say is I'm considering the same thing myself after the "knock it off" remark.

 

However, I won't because the only reason I'm posting here to begin with is because I care about paying customers (like you) who could potentially be hurt by this.

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They are not going to tell you where the line is so you can go right up to it and thumb your nose at them. Just play the game the way it was intended and you will be fine. Its simple even a toddler could grasp it.

 

It's so simple they could even just code it in to the game and there would be no confusion at all!

 

Other MMO's have done it - even 7-10 years ago. Hard to understand I know.

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Many people have explained this to you. Several times now, this quoted post included, someone, myself included, made a post addressing your claims, that you ignored right above your post. And that's not even getting into the times you cherry-picked posts in order to brush them off and try to support your own argument.

 

As I said, you're either here to screw with the other posters, or you lack the insight or attention span to understand the basic aspects of how to balance a MMO over the long run.

 

 

Either way, you need to knock it off.

 

Is that some sort of threat? I'm sorry that I'm voicing my opinion on these forums (without using profanity, etc) but the fact is if you don't like what I have to say just leave it be.

 

Telling me to "knock it off" is laughable at best.