dmanlong
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Posts posted by dmanlong
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I think Lethality is getting better each patch and when 2.7 hits we will be in a decent spot. Still need that 100% proc on TA from Fatality though.
Lets look at some boons:
We got a buff to baseline hidden strike damage and its cost was lowered.
We got a buff to how long TA lasts - making it more likely that we can cull on our own terms..
We got an extra tick from Corrosive dart from the Lethal Injectors rework
Orbital Strike casts faster and can be used more often - less damage but way more utility.
We are getting a more powerful shield probe that we will talent to down to 14 seconds.
We are getting a buff to the baseline damage reduction from Shield Probe.
Exfiltrate won't cost us any energy.
So, how does this help us?
Well the changes to 2.6 are not amazing, but not bad either. Some people view the Orbital Strike as a big nerf and it is for damage, but being able to cast it faster and more often means much more utility on stopping caps. I really like the change.
Currently, Lethality Ops suffer from quite a few problems. Our biggest issue is that we are very squishy and don't have the front loaded burst or stealth to avoid melee classes killing us quickly. This leads to a "dot - then dart in and kill" play style. With the buff to shield probe, we can stay in melee much longer.
Another big problem with Lethality Ops is that we need 100% energy to do our burst rotation. This means that using Exfiltrate kills our potential when gap closing to do our back loaded burst. No longer. Now that I will be able to roll twice and still have 100% energy- those pesky kiters will eat my 3 Culls to the face. If anything, the biggest thing we need now is to not have to play the "Fatality guessing game". This sucks to not get a proc. Fix this Bioware - it's stupid.
Lastly - Smash got nerfed and they are the bane of my squishy Lethality ***.
So overall. I think we are looking decent next patch.
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No.
The closest thing is lethality which is the shared tree. You have some ranged abilities but your rotation (PvE and PvP) will have mandatory Melee abilities.
There are a few videos of some PvP Lethality Ops floating around where they just dot from from range and throw a off heal here and there, but they are playing incorrectly and doing more harm than good.
I suggest playing one of the ranged classes if that is your thing.
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I was just going off of the title
You seem to be implying that these changes were made to buff lethality, but this couldnt be farther from the truth.
Nothing in 2.6 is designed to buff lethality, its all to buff concealments pve dps. Whatever buffs lethality gets were just because they share some stuff that concealment uses.
The lower tiers of the trees for each advanced class and of course the shared tree have a symbiotic relationship with each other. If you make changes to one, then the other is affected. While all of the changes were certainly made with the concealment operative in mind, I think its fair to make a statement about how this affects that relationship.
Its also most likely a ***** fest about how Lethality Ops in PvP need some love .. They have almost entirely been ignored for the life cycle of this game.
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pretty much what he said, most people have the weird idea that all classes and specs has to be viable for every aspect of the game, .
Your expectations vary from mine. The goal should be to make all 24 Trees competitive. Of course there will always be classes that are easier to play and slightly better, but quite a few trees are outright broken in this game. There is a reason that you see the same types of classes in all these premades and the same comps in Arenas.
Why should I have to re-roll if I don't want to be saddled into a single tree or playstyle? I expect more out of my game.
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same. i heal both most of the time, but when i dont give a F**k.... ^this.
In all fairness i don't think lethality will probably never get buff to be pvp viable, since it is basically a pve spec at least for operatives. But yeah, let's see how they keep track on the most pressing pvp issue for both specs... without that being fixed we will still only be healers in arenas (at least we have one viable spec
)Why is Lethality a PvE spec? I don't think the developers have ever stated that their intention was that Lethality should only be used for PvE. In fact, most of the high tier talents in the Lethality tree, escape plan, augmented shields, Lingering toxins, and quickening are PvP talents. This tree was created as as a shared tree with PvP intentions.
No, whats really happening is that the develops don't care or don't know how to make this tree work for operatives without buffing snipers and concealment operatives. I also don't think that its unreasonable to have every AC able to work in PvP. Its the developers job to do this.
The lack of feedback - just in PvP in general is incredible. With 2 AAA MMOs (that are built from the ground up with PvP in mind) coming out in the next 6 months, I suspect that Swtor will be hurting shortly.
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both
In 8v8 there is too much AOE, snares, and random damage flying around for us to tangle in melee hence we are religated to multi dotting and are hardly relevant.
In 4v4 we are too toxic and too easy to kill to be allowed to live and are focused down the instant we leave stealth with no way of surviving.
Basically we have the damage, we just can't live long enough or get/stay in range easily enough to make any use of it. We're ok in PVE because no boss has a dps kiting mechanic yet and won't switch target to you unless your tank really messed up. In PVP however getting targeted and getting controlled are a fact of life, a fact that we have no counters against and hence become entirely irrelevant.
This is probably the most accurate description of the PvP Lethality Op issues.
The fluff damage we do with our dots really hides many of the blaring problems with this AC.
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Arena no. Lethatlity Ops have very high burst but only after they apply all their dots 3 and then build up 2 TA and apply WB. You also need lots of energy to pull it off.
You have to play as an opportunist dotting people from range and then running in to finish people off. If you get caught in the middle of the splash zone you will drop very quickly.
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I would move Incisive action to tier 2, move chem resistant inlays to tier 7 and move surprise surgery down to to tier 1.
That would allow Lethality Operatives to get 2 stacks of TA right off the bat. This would keep lethality snipers from getting a buff. I am not sure how much it would change the opening rotation for concealment ops though..
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I am going to try to bump this thread just to keep this discussion going - if possible.
Lethality Operatives may be fine in PVE, but definitely not okay in PvP.
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It would add more WS/Culls too.
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No. Healers and sorcs should use 46s. They will be gaining ~2k health (sitting at 33k) and a large tech/force upgrade. Only white damage is ****ed for the 46s. Unless you like to snipe on an op healer or saber strike on a sorc, no loss there.
I knew it was a large health upgrade - 95 endurance but didn't think the damage was that high. How large of an upgrade is it?
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1. Roll a healer/sorc with only yellow dmg.
2. Use 46s
3. ???
4. Profit!
And yes, I do know about the weapon damage bit. I was the first one to notice the decreased damage and asked T-elos to test them again. The even more ****ed up thing is that the damage does not correspond with the character sheet, which puts everything about this entire game in doubt.
You are missing the point of my post though, it's not directed at any specific "exploit" in particular, but the fact that this complicated bolster algorithm will never be fixed and exploits will continue to pop up unless BW changes how it works fundamentally.
I understand your point, and I agree with you. The whole system is completely screwed up.
I am just tying to point out that only healers and possibly tanks can benefit from the 46s but they both would be sacrificing a lot of damage for a health and slight tech upgrade. The real problem is that we are using pve MH/OH instead of pvp gear.
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You sure about that? T-elos post 2 pages later that white damage is significantly lower using those mods.
here:
It seems I am getting significantly less weapon damage done in a bolstered environment using the blue 45s setup than compared to the 69,63,61 despite the character sheet and ability tooltips all pointing to a higher bolstered weapon bonus damage. If anyone else has tried this please feel free to share.and Here:
Those are my screenshots.Regarding the purple 46s, they bolster worse than the blues.
Regarding my testing, I've done plenty of warzones with both but due to the constant variables in warzones I couldn't determine a trend. Therefore I created an experiment with some controls, I sat with someone in a warzone and arranged to test it (max expertise target, no proccing power relics, and multiple tests with the two different weapons). You hit significantly less using the blue 45 mods in all slots of the MH on weapon damage attacks than compared to the 69,63,61.
Despite the character sheet and ability tooltips displaying the 45s mods in all slots to be the best for MH weapon it does not appear this way after my testing.
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46/46/46
Boom. Now everyone can be broken.
This is not better. White Damage is significantly lower. Only healers and possibly tanks can benefit from using this exploit.
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I just finished the Bounty Hunter - my 5th Complete Class Story. I have done Smuggler, Jedi Knight, Agent, Trooper, and Bounty Hunter to 50.
I rate story's from 3 categories - Overall Story, Companions, and Dialog.
The Bounty Hunter has some pretty decent Dialog choices and really good companions. The overall story is not good. quite a few people have said it has a great Act 3 and I kept expecting it to get better.
It is the same basic story the entire way though. Go to a planet and capture/kill a bad guy. I guess in the most simple form it sticks to what a bounty hunter does -collects bounties. They could have added some real twists and turns to the plot and given it some real flavor but it pretty much never changes.
At least the trooper has some very epic moments in a very straight forward story.
My Ratings.
Agent 10/10
Smuggler 9/10
Jedi Knight 8/10
Trooper 7/10
Bounty Hunter. 5/10
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It will probably be a few days for hard math. Everyone is leveling. You might get some generalization and speculation from the very limited PTR testing.
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I think if anything, this farce speaks volumes about BW's real thoughts on the long term viability of SWTOR.
I thought the exact same thing. I wonder if they are really just trying to delay what they view as an inevitable sinking ship. What may be happening:
Bioware lost a ton of money on this MMO. Everyone responsible resigned or was fired. They went F2P in a last ditch effort and now they have poured most of their limited resources into the cash shop trying to salvage a profit. They put a skeleton crew on everything else to keep the game afloat. The goal is to make as much money possible while putting out limited filler content until the game loses its appeal - giving the company the most reward at the lowest cost. Makeb was probably mostly done before this whole debacle occurred. Time will tell the real truth.
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We do really appreciate the communication at least. If you are solely responsible for balancing classes then its understandable that you have way too much on your plate. I doubt any one person could do such a insurmountable task. thanks for the heads up.
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At this point, unless you are a huge fan of Body Guard/Combat Medic and just want to play this AC, there is no reason to be a healer and play anything other than Sage/Sorc or Op/Sawbones in PvP.
Commados/Mercs bring nothing to the table that the other two healing ACs cannot do significantly better in PvP. This issue has existed since 1.2, so I really have doubts about this being fixed anytime in the near future.
When life gives you lemons, sometimes you just have to eat lemons.
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no further changes beyond what I already posted are slated to go in for Mercenaries/Commandos in 2.0.
Read what he wrote again. There will be no healing changes when 2.0 launches beyond what is on the PTS.
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So....
It looks like there are no additional changes planned for this AC. When a single guy is doing the entire class balancing for a giant game like swtor, i guess only so much can be expected. Reroll if you want to heal in a WZ.
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I imagine it is a animation issue.
They designed hammer shot to be a Commando's free no cost heal, but it comes with a unique problem - They never designed an animation for using on yourself. They realized that a commando lacked self healing and added this in as a "ad hoc" self healing ability.
The problem is that there is almost never an opportunity to use front line medic and when there is time, another ability would be a better choice. It is obvious that people are not using this talent which is why they tied probe medic to frontline medic. 6 talent points for a terrible self healing ability - unbelievable.
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It has nothing to do with good vs evil but more what is seen as appealing vs boring.
Remember that all of the coolest and most iconic figures in Star Wars are on the Bad Side.
Boba Fett, Darth Vader, Darth Maul and so on. Look at the good guys
Qui Gon - borning, Obi Wan - Boring, Luke - boring until Ep3 and then cool because he was wearing black and sort of evil. Even anakin started out as boring and gradually became cooler as he became more evil. Han Solo was also at the peak of his coolness in a New Hope - when he was lawless.
Then also take a look at how they marketed this game. Every trailer has a sith or bounty hunter beating the crap out of the good guys. Even the main guy on the loading screen died before we ever played the game. No one wants to play the loosing side.
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Hey Guyz..... The first 20 minutes of a 17 hour story is bad.... I am so angry.
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Returning Operative, Using Duffys lethality, got questions.
in Scoundrel / Operative
Posted
Open with OS if its up, but it does not really matter.
The key to PVE dailys and general questing it to remember that TA procs off of deaths.
a single Cull with a dot will kill weak mobs usually, but if not, two will.
So you open with HS, then CG, then FG. That will probably kill a normal mob granting you your second TA. Tab to another Mob (which stills should have CG dot) and WB with Cull. Use FG off cooldown and keep rotating mobs Culling them getting TAs after each death. Throw in Shivs, WB, FG, and CG as needed.
Its really very easy as long as you remember that each time a mob dies you get a TA proc. You are capped at 2 so use them or lose them by Culling.