Mutica
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Posts posted by Mutica
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Posted by TeoHTime:
The video describes most of the examples, but i'll go into a TLDR rant anyway.
With a shadow dps as my main I feel your frustration TeoHTime, and thanks for posting that video... That video shows the state of shadow dps, the state it was before any patches and the state it is in now after every single patch they have put, saying ability delay is being looked at.
So at least for those of us playing that class, it 'feels' as though Bioware has done nothing. So is this a problem were animations, and client side + server side code have to be done for each class separately? So, are they prioritizing the most played classes first? I would rather they prioritize the most egregious problems first. If you've noticed significant improvements, what class are you playing then?
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I've noticed that when I first start playing the game runs as fresh as spring day, but the longer I play it seems to get bogged down and choppy to the point that I just turn it off and do something else.
Even after I FINALLY get swtor client to close; my box is still choppy and unresponsive even while reporting very little CPU and RAM usage.
I notice a little of that too, so I usually try to restart every hour or so... but looking at my cpu/gpu and ram usage, nothing indicates it as being taxed. CPU usage sits below 15 or 20% if I only have the game on and the RAM usage is around 30%.
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Christmas was 3-4 months ago? edit: lol I should l2read.
Not even 2 full months have passed since the game was released, sorry. edit:
I'm currently PVPing for the first time in a few weeks and I notice a big difference.
Um I said 3-4 months after Beta not when the game was released...u trolling or couldn't read?
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Has anyone considered this issue as contributing to the ability delay?
Specifically I noticed that the game runs well for me, especially after the last patch. However it becomes very choppy after some hours of play.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=154568
This may have the answer. To those experiencing choppy graphics and delays after the last patch, try rebooting and see if it's better. Seems to be an issue with the engine intensively loading stuff from the hard drive instead of memory, made worse by memory leaks.
Most of the ability delays have been fixed for me as of yesterday, I even tried mounting the speeder and moving immediately. It works now.
I might be willing to try this, but I'm hesitant to install software of a forum post recommendation. For the record, I experience lots of gameplay problems and I have a pretty nice rig. I have an SSD, 16 gigs of Ram, an unlocked i7, and an Radeon 6870. I've heard rumors that the game actually runs a little worse on beefier rigs? But haven't seen anything substantiated.
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Been said a million times, the content development team are separate people from the bug fix team. And before you chime in with "well they should reallocate resources from content development to fixing bugs, i.e. lay off content ppl and hire more coders", please realize that sometimes, adding more people to a bug fixing team actually decreases efficiency and only adds clutter+confusion to a bug fixing workflow.
I agree with you completely... adding more man hours to a project doesn't equate to getting it done faster... which to me reinforces what I think are fundamental problems in how the game was originally developed. 1) How do you develop a game that has these types of gameplay bugs? Its a video game you want it to be responsive above all else. What does this say about a development team that spent 3+ years on this game? 2) If we can give them the benefit of the doubt that they somehow didn't notice these issues in 3+ years of development; then people made them aware of it during beta... so now 3-4+ months after beta, gameplay still has major issues; and in general bugs abound.
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It seems like some people are seeing improvements; but by in large I have not seen any as a shadow dps; in fact I will say that I 'feel' its getting worse with each patch. The shadow strike stutter, while it makes playing this class incredibly frustrating in pvp... now rears its ugly head constantly in pve. Combat is unbelievably slow. The animation lag + the GCD; I feel like I'm constantly waiting to use an ability... not very heroic feeling imo.
I know for many that they are fine with these things; but this game is imo miles and miles away from being responsive and appealing to competitive players. I admire the optimism of many of you, but these are problems that have been present since beta, so for some people they have been waiting several months for fixes not just one month. So, friends of mine that were in the beta and played their first month have left. I think I'm willing to wait another month; but I think I'm hoping for a miracle. Problems that weren't fixed in beta, to me it seems that there are fundamental issues with how the code was written or the game designed that make this an issue that won't be fixed. This game will probably succeed as a niche mmo; but EA/Bioware's hopes of being competitive with Blizzard keep diminishing as this issue makes its way into more and more conversations outside SWTOR.
I also do not see how the development and deployment of new content takes precedence over fixing the major bugs... or implementing character transfer on the PTS so bug fixes can actually be tested in a proper way? A whole blog post about bug fixes, when the PTS system is severely flawed for testing said fixes? Actions speak louder than words; it took a monumental effort to get Bioware to acknowledge a problem that has plagued this game since beta. Lack of a proper working PTS makes testing fixes properly almost impossible. And imo the developers have placed a precedence on the release of new content over resolving bug fixes.
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Here is a demonstration of SCT lag. Vicious Slash is an especially bad culprit. If you look at target HP bars, it often deals damage as much as a second before SCT indicates the damage happening. The "stutter" bug with retaliation is also seen near the end of the video.
The stutter bug is absolutely game breaking for me as a shadow dps... shadow strike constantly stutters. Honestly, the stutter happen for me fairly often. I'm glad they are paying attention to it now... but for the life of me I can't understand how you release a game with these types of playability issues. I am trying very hard to be optimistic, but I think they really blew an opportunity during their first month of 'meet and greet', I think this may just end up being another niche mmo... I really wanted this to be the next big thing and a huge success for Bioware.
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I have noticed for some things on my Shadow dps, that it is better.
But still for me in PvP, as a shadow dps, the delay is still there and absolutely killer. My main opener and in general move is Shadow Strike, in order to execute I have to be behind the target. The same mechanics as rogue's backstab in WoW. Now in a Warzone, when you are moving fast and trying to stay behind your target... that ability has to go off instantly; and a lot of times it just doesn't by the time the system recognizes it the opponent has turned slightly or whatnot. I PvP'ed a rogue in WoW, and this was just never an issue.
Lots of times, the ability tries to fire, the animation starts and then stops... or stutters. Its as if at keypress or keyrelease the conditions have been met, but fractions of a second later they are not met, so the animation stops. It just takes the fun out of PvP for me; throwing on sprint and moving fast and circle strafing your opponent with backstabs is twitch, but I can do it; just not in this game, its not responsive enough.
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@Xcore - Make or break SWTOR? Are you high on cocaine or something? Yes there are issue that are currently being fixed, but ability delay breaking SWTOR? lol no. You should have played WoW during launch....much worse.
I played WoW at launch... and it was not much worse. and that is besides the point... that is the reigning King... and that is game that sets the standard... its like saying if there is a new car company, and they make a car without seat belts... and you say, well all the other car companies had 20 years before they introduced seat belts, so we should wait. I mean that is a huge exaggeration of the magnitude, but you get the point. You have to be competitive with what is out there now.. not what was out there 8 years ago.
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Just in case anyone thinks WoW does not have a queue system for abilities, they do.
Here is a post from GC back in October 2010.
"We had to change the ability queue system you are describing to fix an exploit that was threatening to become pretty widespread. It is unfortunately one of those cases where a few bad apples ruin things for everyone.
We are working on an improvement where the most recent command will override the previous one. If for example you are spamming Hamstring, and then succeed in snaring someone, you can switch to Mortal Strike which will clear out the Hamstring queue instead of wasting more GCDs on Hamstring. "
That quote is a good find... it seems though in SWTOR we can't or can't override the queue the way WoW has it implemented. I don't know. If you have a queue but can easily override that seems ok... but right now that doesn't seem the case maybe.
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This is VERY untrue. Whether or not someone will use a 1.0 que system is up to them, but any competitive player completely disregarding the que system or setting it to 0, is handicapping himself. WoW had a built in .5 second que system and if you set TOR's at 0, spamming keys can still result in slight delays between abilities.
Even in WoW where the combat responsiveness is immaculate, without a que system, spamming your ability key will still result in SOME TYPE of delay. This would be incredibly detrimental to a true MIN/MAX player.
This is EXACTLY why I laugh at people claiming they are hardcore when they advise me to change this setting to fix the issue.
P.S. Not at all directed at you sir because you are in NO WAY claiming to be as hardcore as those I am mentioning.
.5 secs seems huge though, I didn't know wow had that? I mean I know they implemented that in Cata... and the issue with it being on keypress rather than key release vs swtor. But I thought WoW didn't have ability queuing till very recently.
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Hmm, I don't use the que system, but it does seem that it is working better in that video at least for those two casts. But no competitive player is going to use a que system though, still its nice if they've fixed that; didn't know it was broken before though.
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Thanks for posting that hilarious link Xcore.
Originally Posted by XcoreI'll leave this right over here... http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/01/20/th...ode-iii-and-v/
Also, thanks again for making that great video. I think especially the last 10 minutes, will hopefully help people realize that no one wants this game to fail, and that denying an obvious problem will not help. I think you are right, I do think its hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people who are ready to leave WoW. If these problems aren't fixed, I think this game in the end may paradoxically increase WoWs subscribers, as some people who left and tried this game will realize how far ahead WoW is in terms or gameplay.
I don't know where it is on their priority list; I guess my worry still is that it is not high enough and that my feeling is that we need at least incremental improvements with each patch... otherwise I see Warhammer all over again.
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Ok so after a few matches of pvp, I don't really see any change (shadow dps)... shadow strike still 'stutters' ; still delays in Force Wave...etc. Maybe since they never went to the PTR they are not in game yet, probably next week. I really can't see how some people are saying its fixed...or better now. I don't see any difference from a day ago. Maybe we are all hoping for the best and try to believe its getting better, but I don't see it yet. I'm sure once the dataheads start looking at it, they'll confirm the issue is still pretty much here.
If Bioware, decides that all damage must be tied to the animations; I wish they would just come out and say so. Then they need to make animation times, equal across factions for each ability. That would help, even shorter animation across the board might help. I know a lot of people like the graphical quality of the animations and are ok with that delay. Some of us aren't, for me as someone who is more competitive in pvp and raids I think its a deal breaker...for all the reasons Xcore and others have already pointed out.
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I still see the issue after logging on... the mount thing is the easiest to test....
What I will say, is that it 'seems' or does feel like in some cases the pre-cast delay as Allocator diagramed it seems to have improved. But again I'll wait till more data has been gathered, but at least it seems to feel a bit better.
Allocator (Thread 4, Page 36) Diagram of Ability Delay Problem: http://i.imgur.com/oGeam.png
However, the larger issue of the execute animation and the damage being applied only after the animation is still there. So there are still no 'real' instant cast spells in this game. All spells have a cast time... and maybe the 'instant' cast spells can essentially just be cast while moving in some cases.
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I really haven't noticed any difference. The delays are still there for me. The mount thing for instance, you cannot move right when the cast bar is done. The other post saying 'the delays are gone' is I think a troll.
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I just tried the mount thing the problem is still there... I haven't seen anything change to be honest; we are just being trolled.
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Thank you for keeping us posted... really that's all a lot of are asking, you acknowledged the problem, just keep us appraised of the progress. I've got some confidence back that you guys can solve this problem!
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Xcore and others that have kept this thread going... Thank you!
I played competitive pvp in WoW and was excited about this game, I've been playing it for this month and its felt so clunky, but believed for awhile that it was just computer issues and not related to game design. I am so glad to find this post, and to have a better understanding of why WoW felt so responsive in combat... in the end its all about gameplay. I can't listen to voice acting for years on years... after a month I already spacebar through it all. What kept me going in WoW, was how responsive it felt in controlling your character. You worked to improve your skill, and how you reacted to different situations, the game was responsive and rewarded you for those improvements. This is true not just in competitive pvp, but also difficult raiding environments. At the moment SWTOR seems miles behind in this regard. It seems to be a monumental oversight; and what is perhaps most concerning to me is that Bioware has really said almost nothing about this. So, I don't know, I want to support Bioware, I want to have confidence that they can fix this... but the lack of any real response or fixes has me really concerned.
4 man ranked wz FML
in PvP
Posted
Here is what I honestly think is going on... This is all about the huge drop in subscriber numbers and low populations on most servers. If you could create 8 man groups for WZ, and there were a few groups doing that, I think you have ridiculous wait times for the queue. Delaying this feature is just an attempt to mask the difficulty of creating 8 v 8 matches with just 4 man queues atm.
I would hate to think that the reason its not being implemented is that they don't have the talent to figure out how to do this programming wise.
I feel that this is a company that is starting to rely more on obfuscation and marketing to sell its products rather than, excellent development and gameplay. I'm qq'ing because I want the old Bioware back.