[Jedi Sentinel Feedback]

How will stealth classes function then?

 

Deception Assassin and Concealment Operative especially?

 

These function somewhat differently in group PVE content vs. solo PVE and PVP, but a constant in the latter two is using stuns on your enemy and then attacking from behind, whether with a saber or a vibroknife.

 

That's simply the basis of those 2 disciplines. How would you remove stuns and still maintain what those advanced classes are?

 

This is insane!!

 

The stun isn't part of the identity of those classes they will probably remove positioning from damage on those so you won't need stuns.

[Jedi Sentinel Feedback]

I don't main sentinals on live, I only play enough to get through story, vet fp, and the easier tiers of MM fp. I default to fury/concentration since it's the simplest spec to play, keybind wise.

 

For me a sentinal is a dual wielder with force camo (aka: the poor man's stealth), predation/transcendence, pacify, and a fast paced combat style.

 

I ended up quitting the pts after seeing the given loadouts for concentration.

 

On live I have certain keybinds that are the same on all classes. Things like the hard stun, the interrupt, the escape, the short mobility (transcendence on Sentinal).

 

Both loadouts for concentration were missing transcendence, and the hard stun. Plus other abilities.

Although they kept cyclone slash in the loadouts, along with force sweep ... if you want to purge abilities, then why leave cyclone slash, a pretty much useless ability?

 

The abilities being removed, or made optional/a choice just seem to be the wrong ones to me. Especially compared to some of the largely useless abilities (slash? strike? both could be removed with a bit of tweaking for energy management to replace strike).

 

Why do we need two aoe abilities but can't have a hard stun and predation? I understand loadouts are preset, but the choices for the presets make it clear that the dev's are not playing the game the same way I do.

 

I don't know what the end result of the combat overhaul will be, but testing seems pointless to me at this stage when I can't even look at the available loadouts without being baffled by the dev's choices.

 

I like the gameplay on LIVE, barring a few things that could be tweaked, but with what's on the pts right now, I'm pretty sure I will not like what 7.0 ends up being. Whoever the combat overhaul is aimed at; it is not me.

 

Pretty sure they intend to remove all stuns and hard stuns from everyone but tanks as noted by the removal of sent stuns and there post about reworking cc breaking and interrupts.

[Updated thoughts from closed beta founder. they double down on Great Nerfening]

Agreed.

 

NOW is the time to put up or shut up. So those voicing feedback are fulfilling their civic gamer responsibilities - those who know have an obligation to speak up.

 

Ya'll wouldn't give two flicks of a Bantha's tail if nothing had ever been announced, no one was clamoring for what was announced - and they certainly weren't asking for abilities to be pruned from the game.

 

So if we take captainbladejk at his word about his qualifications, and I personally can match his detailed argument with sentiments I have had in gaming for years - that nerfing is NOT the answer, etc etc. then let him argue his position.

 

This is his game at stake too. And nothing he's argued takes anything away from any of ya'll that were half asleep about game design and only a few of you OCD freaks read every line of the Patch Notes anyway.

 

He cares - that much is clear.

 

So argue against his points, but don't attack the guy for providing the feedback the Devs actually asked for!

 

_embarrassed :

 

Yeah but if you read all of his post about this he believes that they are going to do this no matter what so why is he still subbing if he really believes such and hell I have been playing for as long as he has i am a founder as well but I don't throw it around as a point like it makes a difference because it doesn't and also based on patch history BW will likely release the changes in the current mindset that they want it and just do slow changes over the year to it like they did with the current gearing system.

[Updated thoughts from closed beta founder. they double down on Great Nerfening]

Right now they haven't ported these changes over to live. You all keep saying "we need to wait and see". As such I am voicing my feedback now and telling them if they go through with this, I will no longer fund their game. Yall want to keep saying we need to "wait and see" yet want to bash folks for not immediately canceling their sub 6 months in advance? So what exactly do you want folks to do? Because you can't advocate both positions at once. They say they want our feedback before we do anything, so that's what they're getting.

 

 

It's really quite simple dude, if you think I'm wrong then explain what I am wrong about. So far you haven't done that. All you've done is attempt to gaslight, and apparently I took the bait, so congratulations on that one. So if you think I'm wrong, what am I wrong about. Be specific. Is it my example using the code? Is it my Freezing Force example? Is it some of the past analogies I've used? Explain with specifics. The first guy who came in here that didn't agree with me at least used rational logic to explain his position. He used specific examples as to why he felt it wasn't such a bad thing. I explained why I didn't agree with those examples, and it was a productive banter. That is how you have debate. If you want to think I'm an idiot you're welcome to that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact you've not presented any counter evidence. If you have better solutions than what I've suggested, let's see them, otherwise you're doing nothing but trolling.

 

At the end of the day, if you think nothing is going to matter and they're not going to listen to anyone, why are you here? They asked for feedback from folks and they're getting it. So far aside from a small handful of people, everyone has told them they do NOT want this change as it will do nothing to help the game. As another user already pointed out, abilities like Saber Throw and similar are NOT defensive abilities, yet those are being yanked even though they've been there since 1.0. If it was purely about the defensive abilities as they say, then why are they touching non-defensive cooldowns? So, either they're straight up lying about what they want to do, they forgot what abilities were put in the game and when before sending Jackie out to make that post, or there's something they're not telling us. So what is it?

 

If it's purely about defensive abilities, tell me, what's so difficult about saying "you can't use ability X in this pvp area because it's too strong"? If they can restrict mounts on certain parts of a map but not others, they can take the time to disable particular abilities. Also adjusting the cooldown of a defensive power is as simple as opening a text file and changing a number. Are you really telling me they're incapable of opening a file and changing a number?

 

If they decide to go forward with things as is, then they're going to have to do a rebalance anyways. If they can rebalance all of the encounters PLUS retool all of the classes, then there is zero valid reason they can't just rebalance the encounters to the standards of today and call it done. If you're already doing X Y Z, you can easily do X and call it done. Again you don't need to be a AAA studio dev to see this is unnecessary and runs counter to what they say they want to do. Reducing a toolkit from 10 abilities to 7 doesn't create more choice, it steals it. The only difference between what they do at the studio level, and what myself or others do at the modding level is the scale of the projects. So the question is, do you have solutions to the problems people are raising, or are you just here to try and gaslight? If you have solutions let's have them, and if you think I'm wrong then explain why. Otherwise it's an emotion based argument that you're throwing up.

 

 

EDIT: Also as a final bit, I've seen several of you now complain that there's ability bloat, yet not a single person has been willing to name what abilities are considered "bloat" abilities. If you're going to say there are too many abilities in game, name some of the bloat abilities. Since this has been about Jedi Guardians, name some of the abilities you consider to be bloat, then we can talk. If you can't name abilities that are bloat, then you have no reason to cite the argument. I'm not saying this stuff because I don't want to see progress, I want to see good progress, not regression. I do alot of 3d modeling and similar for a living. I've also been working with various games for 15 years. But what could I possibly know.

 

Yes but you are the one saying that they will do this anyways regardless of our input so it shouldn't matter what you say here to you it's already a done deal in your mind so I say again why are you still funding them.

[Updated thoughts from closed beta founder. they double down on Great Nerfening]

Dude wants to think I'm lying, well that shoots his theory down, simple as that.

 

As for everything else, use legitimate arguments instead of emotional appeals and there will be no issues. So far I don't see that from your camp. As far as knowledge goes, yes how dare I as a long time player of this game that's seen everything they've done speak up. How dare I not be for lobotomizing my classes and so on. Seriously dude, if you think something I've said is wrong, then use your words, use legitimate logical arguments. So far only one person in here has tried to use logic based arguments to have actual debate.

 

So I have to ask why do you keep funding the game if you don't like the direction the game is going in as money is the only thing EA cares about so if you want to show EA how serious you are unsub and quit playing the game otherwise all EA sees you as is a big talker but in the end won't pull the trigger and quit.

[My Thoughts on the recent dev post for 7.0]

watch as I talk about my thoughts on the dev post the video should be live in roughly 3 hours.

[This needs to be seen]

No, the point was that we lost a lot of players that never returned and it took them a year to fix it to where it became palatable to those who remained. During that year we lost even more players. See the difference? That post asked for player feedback. You are just denouncing anyone who gives feedback you consider negative as emotionally biased.

 

And your point because they have done a lot during the games duration that lost a lot more people especially during the Knights of series that had nothing to do with any system changes and they didn't do anything to try and change things vs the galactic command they actually realized they made a mistake and lessened the amount of player losses by fixing things and they recovered some players over time but the never recovered the losses from the big mistake that was the Knights of expansions.

[This needs to be seen]

You can allow folks to play with different weapons without having to gut the classes in the process. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. All you need to do is change the visuals that go along with certain attacks, and maybe adjust a bit of the stats under the hood based on the weapon being used. Such as someone using 2 pistols vs a blaster rifle.

 

The extra stuff with gutting the classes is NOT needed in order to make that happen

 

You only see it as gutting because it's in a bare bones state by the time it is finished based on feedback barely anything will be changed and at most you will lose one ability but gain another in it's place as plenty of people have pointed out plenty of classes have abilities that players rarely use that could be removed in exchange for other abilities.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

Have you ever thought about using legitimate arguments and not emotion based appeals, that maybe folks would then be willing to dialogue with you? I've seen several of you trying to say how we're overreacting or similar. Yet not a single one of you has tried debating why you think this is a good idea. Not a single one of you has offered solutions to anything. The only things you've done is try to bash people for saying what's on the PTS is a bad idea.

 

that's because most of us rational people are waiting for a more complete system to be put on the pts before making judgements

[This needs to be seen]

And who gets to determine what is legitimate feedback and isn't? Again they asked what we thought about it, and we have told them what we think about it. All you're doing at this point is trolling and using emotion based appeals instead of actually engaging with the arguments being presented. You say we're wrong, explain how. You've yet to do that anywhere. But in your mind, no it couldn't be that people have experienced this in other games like WoW, or the ill-fated Star Wars Galaxies that tried to revamp itself and drove off their playerbase. Nah couldn't be that anyone has seen it before and doesn't want this game to make that same mistake. No it simply must be that people don't know anything besides you. As for not doing what WoW has done, that's exactly what they're doing now with stealing half of our toolikits and marketing them back to us.

 

You don't see the parallels at this point because you have chosen not to. Instead of trying to debate and come up with better solutions, and actually propose alternatives, you keep trying to lampoon people and say "you're just overreacting" or "you're just pretending the sky is falling." As the old saying goes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, but sometimes that light is headlights from a locomotive come to run you over. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. You have chosen to flat out ignore it and if people like you have your way, this game will be dead or severely diminished in no time.

 

If it aint broke don't fix it. Plus you still haven't explained why you think this is a good idea. you've only attacked people for saying it's bad.

 

Actually I have explained why the general idea of what they are doing is good but you either missed that or ignored it as I pointed out many people have wanted to be able to play classes and use a variety of weapons because in the Star Wars universe not all troopers use the same 2 weapons nor do bounty hunters or smugglers or agents.

[did Combat Proficiencies disappear altogether on PTS?]

It's being replaced by the combat styles menu but that menu isn't finished yet so it's not accessible.

[This needs to be seen]

The devs have asked for feedback on this system as it is, why are you against people posting the feedback the devs asked for? Are you paid to sabotage the PTS feedback by harassing people who try to give the requested feedback?

 

If you believe acting like this is the end of the game is feedback then I don't know what to tell you because it's not feedback it's over reacting.

[This needs to be seen]

I'll refer you to the post I gave to you in the other thread.

 

They stated they wanted us to test the Guardian first to get a feel of what was to come. Meaning that they have changes like this planned for all classes and all specs. This means I don't need to see those other classes to know it will be bad since they're all getting the same treatment. That's called an informed inference. Meaning based on information we have available, all classes would receive the same Great Nerfening if this is allowed to continue. If you hire a contractor to do work on your house, and they do a completely terrible job by destroying your living room, it's a safe bet they destroyed other rooms.

 

Saying "you need to wait until we know everything" is not a valid criticism in this instance because we know this is going to happen to all classes based on information they gave us. We may not know every single ability they're removing for every single class, but the fact remains it shouldn't be happening at all. Aside from the very small minority here on this forum in the last while I have no seen a single person complain about ability bloat. What I have however seen is people saying this is totally unnecessary and will harm the game as a whole. The Guardian was just the first preview of what they have planned which is why folks are speaking up now. If folks don't speak up now, there will not be enough time for them to reverse course to meet the release date, meaning we'll have to wait who knows how long for them to realize they screwed up and fix their mistakes. Again we know this is planned for other classes based on statements they have made. So there is no "we don't have all the information" since Bioware gave us the information to start with.

 

If we have to wait until everything is set in stone before calling for change, it's too late at that point. You can call it "crying like it's the end of the world" if you want, but that just shows your willful blindness to what is going on. Some of us have actually seen this before with WoW and other games and we know from experience it doesn't end well and harms the game as a whole. It destroys the uniqueness of each class and still doesn't fix the problem they claim they wanted to solve. You can't steal half a person's toolkit, give 2-3 abilities back, call it new and expect people to like it or pretend like it's not a nerf.

 

Point blank dude, you're talking out of your rear end when there is more than enough info here to make an informed inference about what's coming down the pipes. All of it based on information THEY GAVE TO US themselves. Point being, we should have to wait an entire year or long for them to realize they screwed up and restore the classes to how they should be. This isn't about folks hating change, not wanting to learn rotations, not making informed decisions, or anything else you've been claiming for awhile now. It's about not wanting to see them destroy part of what makes this game and each class unique, and not wanting them to destroy the overall experience with the game.

 

If folks need help, they need to speak up. I am not a mind reader and would rather spend time helping someone than to see this abomination on the PTS brought to live. If someone needs help but says nothing, none of us can help them, not me, not you, not BIoware, no one. Assuming this went live, they might walk it back and they might not, but it doesn't change the fact it shouldn't be done in the first place.

 

Also if you're going to pretend this is a good idea, give us valid reasons as to why it is. What is it improving for each class? How is it improving it? How does it improve gameplay as a whole without destroying uniqueness? You've yet to address a single point like this any of us have made. You keep appealing to the same baseless "you're just complaining" and other foolish arguments that don't address anything. If you think you have better ideas lets hear them? Otherwise how much info do you need aside from their statements and PTS to know they're nerfing everything if things go live as they are now.

 

Lastly, they asked for this feedback from folks for better or worse. Don't ask a question you might not like the answer to. Folks are speaking up now so they can walk back things folks won't like and so they can adjust based on feedback. If folks wait to the last minute, it screws over the players and devs alike, which is not fair to either side.

 

Tons of people have wanted changes like this like fans of Captain Rex who want to play a Trooper with dual Pistols or you know being a bounty hunter that uses a variety of weapons like many bounty hunters do so it's easy to see why people want these changes now all that remains to be seen is how they implement everything which is what I am waiting for before I pass judgment because that's how I roll.

[This needs to be seen]

I'll refer you to the post I gave to you in the other thread.

 

They stated they wanted us to test the Guardian first to get a feel of what was to come. Meaning that they have changes like this planned for all classes and all specs. This means I don't need to see those other classes to know it will be bad since they're all getting the same treatment. That's called an informed inference. Meaning based on information we have available, all classes would receive the same Great Nerfening if this is allowed to continue. If you hire a contractor to do work on your house, and they do a completely terrible job by destroying your living room, it's a safe bet they destroyed other rooms.

 

Saying "you need to wait until we know everything" is not a valid criticism in this instance because we know this is going to happen to all classes based on information they gave us. We may not know every single ability they're removing for every single class, but the fact remains it shouldn't be happening at all. Aside from the very small minority here on this forum in the last while I have no seen a single person complain about ability bloat. What I have however seen is people saying this is totally unnecessary and will harm the game as a whole. The Guardian was just the first preview of what they have planned which is why folks are speaking up now. If folks don't speak up now, there will not be enough time for them to reverse course to meet the release date, meaning we'll have to wait who knows how long for them to realize they screwed up and fix their mistakes. Again we know this is planned for other classes based on statements they have made. So there is no "we don't have all the information" since Bioware gave us the information to start with.

 

If we have to wait until everything is set in stone before calling for change, it's too late at that point. You can call it "crying like it's the end of the world" if you want, but that just shows your willful blindness to what is going on. Some of us have actually seen this before with WoW and other games and we know from experience it doesn't end well and harms the game as a whole. It destroys the uniqueness of each class and still doesn't fix the problem they claim they wanted to solve. You can't steal half a person's toolkit, give 2-3 abilities back, call it new and expect people to like it or pretend like it's not a nerf.

 

Point blank dude, you're talking out of your rear end when there is more than enough info here to make an informed inference about what's coming down the pipes. All of it based on information THEY GAVE TO US themselves. Point being, we should have to wait an entire year or long for them to realize they screwed up and restore the classes to how they should be. This isn't about folks hating change, not wanting to learn rotations, not making informed decisions, or anything else you've been claiming for awhile now. It's about not wanting to see them destroy part of what makes this game and each class unique, and not wanting them to destroy the overall experience with the game.

 

If folks need help, they need to speak up. I am not a mind reader and would rather spend time helping someone than to see this abomination on the PTS brought to live. If someone needs help but says nothing, none of us can help them, not me, not you, not BIoware, no one. Assuming this went live, they might walk it back and they might not, but it doesn't change the fact it shouldn't be done in the first place.

 

Also if you're going to pretend this is a good idea, give us valid reasons as to why it is. What is it improving for each class? How is it improving it? How does it improve gameplay as a whole without destroying uniqueness? You've yet to address a single point like this any of us have made. You keep appealing to the same baseless "you're just complaining" and other foolish arguments that don't address anything. If you think you have better ideas lets hear them? Otherwise how much info do you need aside from their statements and PTS to know they're nerfing everything if things go live as they are now.

 

Lastly, they asked for this feedback from folks for better or worse. Don't ask a question you might not like the answer to. Folks are speaking up now so they can walk back things folks won't like and so they can adjust based on feedback. If folks wait to the last minute, it screws over the players and devs alike, which is not fair to either side.

There are threads posting constructive criticism and giving legitimate feedback hence why I am not posting on those thread and only posting on the chicken little threads crying about how the world is ending because they assume things are going to be how they believe despite BW history of backpedaling IE see the Galactic Command gearing changes to know they don't always do what WoW does and stick to there guns.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

If you think saying we need to wait till we have all the information before making rational criticism isn't a valid argument then you likely make a lot of poor uninformed choices in life because no good ever came from jumping the gun.

You guys need to seriously come up with some new arguments because "you're just projecting" and "we need to wait until we have all the information" are not valid arguments. They're nothing but emotional appeals with no substance that offer nothing in rebuttal to anything said.

 

Second, trying the exact same thing twice and expecting a different result is the literal definition of insanity. If World of Warcraft, which is a much bigger game and a larger playerbase couldn't make The Great Nerfening work, what makes you think it's going to be any different here? If they release new info or the complete PTS build and it turns out I was wrong, then I'll gladly admit I jumped the gun, and honestly that's what I hope happens. However until that happens, my opinion is informed by the data we have available. Again you don't need to see every single one or zero of a code to know if something they're doing is bad. They offered this as a preview of what was to come, meaning we're going to see more of this exact thing if they don't reverse course. If this is a preview, it's not that far of a stretch to know they've done the same things with other classes.

 

You also need to understand that myself and others have already been through this sort of thing in WoW and elsewhere. We saw how it completely changed those games for the negative, which is why we're speaking up now so the uniqueness of SWTOR isn't lost on some flavor of the month idea that'll cause a mass exodus from the game. I want my guardian to feel like a guardian of peace and justice as described by Obi-Wan, not some cheap mobile game imitation that only uses 5 buttons like a bad Diablo ripoff. They asked for feedback and I am giving them feedback. You're certainly free to disagree with my feedback, but disagreement doesn't make my feedback any less valid, nor does it make your feedback more valid.

[This needs to be seen]

You only see it that way because you view it as as a personal attack instead of seeing it for what it really is and that is the truth as anyone that knows me knows I am the biggest critic of this game but the difference is I base my criticism when the content is actually set in stone and not while it's being developed. When it comes down to it you are all crying like it's the end of the world and like they have never walked back things which they have see all the Galactic Gearing changes they did until people were happy.

Dude you need to get over yourself with these emotional appeals and the whole "you're just projecting" argument. It's not a valid argument and is the equivalent of you sticking your fingers in your ears going "la la la la la" over and over like a little kid on a playground that doesn't want to hear something. Trying the same thing twice and expecting a different result is insanity. If the devs release something that proves us wrong and we all jumped the gun, i'll be happy to admit that, and I want that to be the case. However past experience tells me that it won't be. If it doesn't work for the much bigger WoW, why would it work here? If you have legitimate arguments let's hear them, because right now you don't.

[This needs to be seen]

The main point here is that they did fix 5.0 it may have taken time but guess what they did this thing called listening to feedback where as WoW didn't see the difference?

SWTOR's past PTS discussions have shown that players provided feedback with less time remaining than we have here now and nothing changed. Similar to the afore mentioned WoWtastrophe. The biggest example of this was 5.0. It took the Dev's about a year to fix it so that the players felt happy with the changes. Problem was, so many had already left the game never to return because of 5.0. Now the Dev's open a PTS half a year before the players expect a release. A lot of time left to try and work with the players feedback. The Dev's asked for this feedback. Let's see what the Dev's have to say about it.

 

 

 

Looking at that post one can see that abilities are being pruned. Choose this or that. Nothing was mentioned about that in the Stream. That is enough to realize how this is shaping up to "look like" and it appears that many have problems with it.

 

 

 

This post from them is one basic example of what they want to do it doesn't reflect the end result as things can change so get your panties in a bunch when it actually becomes clear on what they want to do.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

Thats the problem is that your projecting your own fears and assuming that because WoW did it that it's going to happen again instead of you know waiting till you actually have all the information to make a informed opinion.

I'll tell you the same thing I told the other guy who used that same bogus argument. We do NOT need to know every single one and zero of the build to see this is a dumpster fire. If we wait until the last second to speak up and say anything at all, then the damage will surely have been done. They need to be made to see how bad this is and how subpar it is. As I said prior, WoW did this same exact thing which is one of the reasons why I don't play that game anymore. The last thing I want to see is SWTOR doing the same foolish mistake that WoW did. If they're going to fix the system and listen to feedback they need to start now by scrapping this abomination and starting over.

[This needs to be seen]

No you actually wait for the full version to be on the pts before complaining as this is bare bones as basic as it gets and not nearly a representation of the final product and you can even tell that by the post on what it should look like.

Yea and If we wait till 6 months down the road to voice our opinions on the changes, when they have locked in what they want us to play without said feedback from us. By then it will be to late to change coarse, clearly you are the one who does not understand how game development works. We need to make it loud and clear early that is is NOT what we want, so that they have plenty of time to go back to the drawing board and rethink it and find a better way to do it.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

No because that would cost EA money they don't want to spend on a 10 year old MMO.

I'm curious if this dumbing down of the game is a move toward mobile. It's the only explanation I can come up with for the absolute gutting of the classes. This is pokemon with lightsabers. What the game needed was an enhancement/retooling of existing abilities. If you want to cut fat, remove the mostly crap abilities you added in 6.0 and remove accuracy rating from the game.

[This needs to be seen]

Last Time I checked this game is called SWTOR not WoW so don't just assume that because a totally different company made a mistake that another company is going to make the same mistake that is called projection my friend.

Yeah dude. Tell that to all of the alpha and beta testers for WoW Shadowlands, and Battle for Azeroth. I'm sure they'll agree with you...

 

Not. Bad changes need to be called out, before it is too late to get them reverted.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

Are you smoking crack galactic command changed a lot after it was released based on people complaining.

I mean remember the uproar about galactic command? Didnt get changed at all despite the criticism

[This needs to be seen]

Another over reactor comes out I see you clearly don't understand game development.

By the final pts it will be to late for sweeping changes assuming that its not to late now.

[PTS thoughts from closed beta founder. The Great Nerfening upon us]

The problem is you are acting like this is the final pts build instead of the bare bones build that it actually is and it's clear by all the missing abilities that are listed on the forums so instead of acting like it's the end of the game wait till the actual last pts build to make a judgement about the system and remember they have roughly 6 months which is plenty of time to fix the system.

I already posted in the general thread asking for feedback, but I'm going to expand on my thoughts here a bit, and touch on items I didn't touch on over there in as great of detail. For my background really quickly, I am a founder in this game and have been here since the closed beta of this game. While I've invested more into certain classes and specs than others, I have played every class and spec. I also am a modder for older games and have designed many a map and mission for older games. Some of my maps used to be EA recommended for Timesplitters Future Perfect for weeks at a time. I have also branched out into other modern games. While I may not be a AAA studio dev, I know how to create content and items for games. Because of this background I also help devs of another game to track down bugs and report them for fixing. I have seen every patch, every change made to this game, most of them good, some of them not so good. When I left WoW after years of play, this was one of the games I found a community in. This will be a bit long as there's alot to unpack here.

 

For years this game has been my golden standard of what a story telling MMO should be. I was excited when i first heard about the expansion, but after seeing what's on PTS I no longer look forward to the expac and I am in fact dreading it. Until yesterday I saw no need to comment on the state of the game as it was mostly positive for me and folks said what I would want to anyways. However after seeing the PTS, I am legitimately angry.

 

Aside from my shadow/assasin tank being my main style of play, the Guardian has been my second most played class going all the way back to beta. What I saw on the PTS is little more than a cheap incomplete imitation of what is on the live servers now and quite frankly is an insult to players. The thing calling itself a "Guardian" on the PTS is NOT a true Jedi Guardian like exists on the live servers. Half of the abilities are missing and the toon has an incomplete toolkit. If I were asked to tank with what was on the PTS I would refuse, because it would be like asking me to rebuild an entire car engine in 5 minutes with a single sized, rusted out wrench that's going to break the first time I use it. Or the other example I used over in the other place, it's like someone stealing my wallet with $100 and my social security card in it, offering to give me back $10 or my social security card, then pretending they've done me a favor. Yet I'm still out my wallet, my social security card and $90, or I'm out $100 and my wallet.

 

As it sits right now on my Defense Guardian, and my Vigilance DPS Guardian (I have multiples of each class), I use every single ability in their toolkit and in their books. I may not use every ability in every fight, but those abilities still get used. As one example I may not use Awe on every single fight like a PVP person might use, but the ability does see use. I also generally don't have that many situations to take advantage of Guardian Leap, but it does get used. This does not make those abilities bad, nor does it automatically mean those abilities should be removed. Speaking in terms of my tank to keep this part more concise, Warding Strike, Guardian Slash, Blade Barrage, Saber Reflect, Challenging Call, Taunt, Force Kick, Strike, Slash, Force Sweep, Force Leap, Force Stasis, Guardian Leap, Riposte, Awe, Cyclone Slash, Blade Storm, Blade Blitz, Hilt Bash, Saber Ward, Freezing Force, Warding call, Resolute, Combat Focus, Enure, Force Push, Focused Defense, Saber Throw, and Dispatch, all get used at some point or another. Every single one of those abilities are abilities that provide value to the toolkit of my tank and are part of what he is.

 

These abilities are not difficult to understand if folks take a little bit of time to read each ability and what they do. For that matter there are many guides out there to help people, and folks like myself who do not mind helping people out who want to learn and grow with the game. I have spent many hours training folks in my guild, and even random folks who have asked for help in zone. Something that needs to be understood is that folks like myself and others, along with Bioware can put all the information in the world out there for people, but it means nothing if they're not willing to read it or listen. Bioware can lower the skill bar all the way to the floor of the basement level of hades itself, and there would still be people who can't do it. I was there when World of Warcraft tried to "prune unused abilities" years ago, and they ended up removing too many abilities. As one example, Arcane mages only had a 2 button rotation for a short amount of time. In Shadowlands they actually had to bring back the largest chunk of those abilities they had removed.

 

To keep the numbers simple, let's assume hypothetically I only had 10 abilities. If you steal 5 of those abilities, and offer to give 2 of them back to me out of my choice of the 5, that's not a choice, but an illusion of choice as you've still stolen 3 abilities from me. I should not have to pick between abilities I've had baseline since launch in most cases, and some passive ability. Stealing abilities and offering to give only some of them back to me is NOT choice, but is a slap in the face and in my book a lazy approach to class development. If you want me to consider giving up certain abilities, then give me alternatives worth considering. As one example, let's take the ability Cyclone Slash. This lets us spin our saber around and smack enemies within range. If you wanted me to give up that ability for something new, give me an ability worth considering as a replacement. Otherwise I'm a firm believer in the saying "if it aint broke don't fix it."

 

Despite what some people may say, this isn't about "not wanting to learn a new rotation" or similar baseless arguments, but about not wanting half my toolkit stolen from me, then given back to me as though it's something new and they're doing me a favor. In reality, all it's doing is nerfing my toon and robbing me of abilities to meet certain challenges. At this point I may as well be a glorified NPC doing an auto-attack swing. A Guardian is supposed to feel like a "Guardian of peace and justice" as described by Obi-Wan. What's on the PTS right now is like Uncle Owen stealing Anakin's lightsaber, then being asked to fight Valkorian in his prime of power. It's not going to end well. The "Guardians" on PTS are a cruel joke compared to what's on live. The Guardians on live feel like a powerful protector, the PTS does not.

 

In order to have character depth and make them feel like they're doing more than just auto-attacking, they need to have a healthy amount of abilities. That doesn't mean you need a book of abilities the size of War and Peace, but you need enough abilities that they don't feel like a one trick pony and that they have more than 5 abilities to adapt to the environment around them. if I wanted to play a game like Diablo that only has maybe 5 powers, I would go play Diablo. Nothing against the folks that enjoy that sort of thing, but I play SWTOR in part because it's not Diablo and it's not WoW. It has it's own story, own unique classes, and there's a healthy amount of abilities to each character. Nothing is forcing people to keep abilities on their bars they don't use. They choose to do that of their own accord. I may barely touch a certain ability, but the other guy playing the same thing in PVP or different kinds of content may use that ability as his bread and butter. Not everyone is going to like every ability in the toolkit, and not everyone is going to play the same kinds of content, which is why a class needs a healthy toolkit of abilities to appeal to different types of content. Simply hitting the same 2 attacks over and over is not fun for me, and I venture not fun for alot of others based off feedback i've been seeing. Otherwise I'm just standing there swinging a wet noddle the entire time doing nothing.

 

There was one ability I did not name in that list of abilities I use. While I Force Clarity and the other abilities that came in 6.0, they didn't bring very much to the table that wasn't already there. If an ability could be removed without very much issue, it would be those abilities and replaced with something better. You do NOT need to bring out new abilities every single expac for it to be exciting. Give me some good story content and some good gear pieces to choose from that lets me customize my character. An example of the one good thing from this expansion I'm seeing potentially, allowing us to use different weapon types. That is an example of something new and potentially exciting if done correctly. However doing it incorrectly is expecting me to give up half my abilities just to be able to use a weapon I like. A Jedi Guardian using the "dark side" variants of abilities is also not that big of a deal either, as it's basically a guardian using the Juggernaut visuals.

 

An example of a choice done well is presenting me with 3 abilities to help maintain my Force level on my Lightning Sorcerer. Do I want passive A which grants an upfront reduction in cost of abilities, Do I want passive B that caps the debuff from Consuming Darkness at 3 stacks instead of 4, or do I want passive C that refunds me a small amount of force for each tick of my DoT abilities? Depending on how one gears their Lightning Sorc, all 3 could be valid choices. Now expand that out to the Guardians and Juggernauts and all the other classes. If I can think of 3 abilities like that off the top of my head, certainly you guys can think of more.

 

On live the Guardian feels like a well oiled machine that can deliver extra power when needed. The Guardian on PTS feels like a broken down engine that can't move faster than the speed of smell. For years this game has been my golden standard of what a game should be, but what I saw on PTS is an outright insult to long time players and new players alike that is FAR FAR below the standard of what a Bioware game should be. It makes me angry because I know you guys can do better than this. It makes me angry because this feels like absolutely zero thought was put into this and it no longer feels like SWTOR, but a flavor of the month type of game that will be dead in a month. It makes me angry because I have enjoyed this game since launch and have maintained a subscription for years, encouraging others to do the same, and this feels like someone spitting in my face in return. I would like to keep enjoying this game for many more years to come, but if this absolutely subpar product on PTS is allowed to hit the live servers, I see my time in this game and the characters I have alot of time and memories with, all coming to an end. I am no longer excited for this expansion, but in fact I'm dreading it. The subpar product on PTS needs to be scrapped and the team needs to go back to the drawing board as this is an insult to what made SWTOR unique. What I see on the PTS robs Guardians of their uniqueness, as well as robs players of uniqueness that made this game what it is, and set it apart from other games for so long. It makes me angry that new players will not get to experience the same kind of quality content and gameplay that I did over the years, but instead would receive a subpar imitation that could never capture that SWTOR experience.

 

Stealing half our toolkits and then trying to give 2-3 abilities back to us is not choice. It's a false choice that has no legitimate purpose. There is no legitimate reason for removing half of our toolkits and abilities we've had since launch. You don't get uniqueness by removing everything unique and giving it away to everything in game. I don't want to see this game make the same mistake that WoW made and is continuing to suffer from. I mained a Death Knight tank on that game for years after having returned in Wrath of the Lich King. I played up until Draenor when they completely gutted the Death Knight class and others. I came to SWTOR to get away from foolishness and subpar development like that, and it's absolutely enraging that I'm potentially seeing it happen here. You guys severely dropped the ball and missed the mark on this on and need to go back to the drawing board. If you can't figure out how to improve the classes without touching the abilities, then leave it alone. When I play a Guardian, I want to feel like a guardian of peace and justice as Obi-Wan described, not this pitiful excuse of a character on PTS.

 

I realize this is alot of stuff to get through, but honestly you should work on enhancing what's already there and making it better, not removing half of the ability book. That's like a thief stealing only half the stuff in my house then pretending hid did me a favor. It's insulting and infuriating what I see on the PTS. Bioware, you guys dropped the ball big time and this is NOT the direction this game needs to go in. Stealing half my abilities then trying to give only a few back to me as "choice" isn't going to make me excited for an expansion, it's only going to make me want to stop playing the game. You guys can do ALOT better than this, and it's infuriating to me that this is what you seem to think of your playerbase that has kept your lights on all these years. I hope you make some changes for the better and you end up blowing my mind as you've done several times before. Right now, this is not mind blowing, this is an insult.

[Streamlining ability set.Who asked for this?These are not changes you are looking for]

I find it funny when you all know this is a very bare bones version of the system that still has 6 months of development time left and most people here are acting like this is the final pts version instead of going crazy right now save your outrage for the final pts build if it stays the same.