Vecke
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Posts posted by Vecke
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I agree that there have always been too many loading screens in SWTOR...
That being said, I quit playing about 6 months ago and went and did other things...I have now come back and leveling another character and I have noticed that my load times seemed to have gone up significantly, especially for Flashpoints. Maybe it is just my imagination but I definitely feel like the loading screen is lasting longer than it used to and that is after some minor upgrades in the last 6 months.
I dunno, maybe I am just imagining it...
Either way, I agree, there are way too many load screens - at the very least they needs to drop the load screens on the fleet so that you can get off your ship and be right in the fleet and not have to go through that extra load screen.
I don't think you're imagining it. My wife and I just came back after a several-month break and we were both very taken aback by how long the load screens are now.
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I hate to admit this.. but Jar Jar.. despite his annoyance to the older crowd was pure genius.
Lucas brought a whole new generation to love Star Wars, without Jar Jar and a much darker Star Wars, kids wouldnt have been into it and they wouldnt be begging mom and dad to buy all those toys.
New generation brings new money and the ability for more star wars toys, games, boardgames, books, and.. movies.
I'll say it again. I've never met a little kid who didn't love Jar Jar. So I have no beef with him.
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I didn't mind the ewoks and I didn't mind Jar Jar. Every little kid I know loves both Jar Jar and ewoks. Sometimes we forget that Star Wars - at its core - was a kid's movie. Sure, it was designed for adults to enjoy too, but it was originally for the kids.
Star Wars became what it is because of kids. People argue about that now, but if you were a kid when the OT was new (which I was), you'd have no doubt on this. Every friend I had back then was absolutely obsessed with all things Star Wars, ewoks included.
The only parts of the entire saga (prequels and originals) that I really hate are the love story scenes in Episode 2. The writing in those scenes is just more than I can handle.
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I don't really see how progress from war is applicable to the question of whether or not the Sith is evil. Good things come from bad things all the time. Progress doesn't automatically make something good. Psychology has made incredible strides in learning about mental illness by studying mass murderers and serial killers. That doesn't mean serial killers are good.
If one country goes to war with another country because their respective leaders want power or oil or land or slaves, yes, there will obviously be technological progress because of that war. It still doesn't mean war is good. It still doesn't mean the millions who died so those leaders could gain power died for a good cause. It just means a sliver of good came from an evil thing.
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I've said this before, but any failings by the Jedi do not make the Sith any less evil.
The only real consideration is whether the Sith are Evil, and by their actions they clearly are. The fact they don't pretend to be nice does not dull the fact they are on the whole out and out evil. In fact the few good Sith are in hiding and plotting to overthrow the Dark Council, mind you most of the Evil Sith are planning the same thing.
I totally agree. I've yet to see an argument saying the Sith aren't evil that isn't really just an argument saying evil doesn't exist. That's a different debate altogether. In a world where evil exists, the Sith are clearly evil.
Now, the argument that the Jedi are good... that position is a little harder to defend. Clearly, the Jedi are not evil and clearly their actions are for a greater good.... but the Jedi often run into the gray area of "do the means justify the ends?"
But the Sith... yeah, if evil exists, they are it.
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so the question is - can you leave the Jedi Order?
That's a tricky question. On the surface, yes. Any Jedi can leave the Order. Dooku left (along with 20 other Jedi, I think). They aren't required by doctrine to stay in the Jedi Order.
But the ambiguous part is that they're not given that choice until after they've been completely indoctrinated by Jedi dogma. As babies, they don't have the choice. And they're raised to believe the life of servitude is the only life worth living. So by the time they're old enough to make that decision, it's not really a decision they'd make.
Most circus elephants are kept restrained by a single small rope. This rope is not strong enough to actually restrain the elephant, but the elephants rarely break free. They don't even try. Why? Because for the first several years of their lives, they're kept in place with a large chain that is strong enough to hold them. By the time the handlers switch to the cheaper, weaker rope, it doesn't even occur to the elephant that it can break the new rope because the chain taught it breaking free isn't really an option. So it doesn't even try to break free.
Jedi are tethered to the Order in a similar fashion.
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That said, you are also trying to argue that a Monastic Lifestyle such as the one that the Jedi practice, is inherently evil..
I'm not going to continue this particular debate because there's absolutely nothing I can say that will alter your opinion in any way. And that's fine. I just have a rule about forums: When an impasse is obvious, stop debating. And with all due respect, if you don't think the Jedi live a lifetime of servitude, there's really nothing to debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree there.
However, please let me state - again - I do not think the Jedi are evil. I do not think the Jedi lifestyle is evil. I have clearly stated - over and over and over - that I think the Jedi are good.
There is a giant difference between "morally ambiguous" and "evil."
In nearly every single post I've made about this, I've specifically said I do not think they are evil.
So I just wanted to clear that up.
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Yeah, no. If you knew anything about History during Feudal Europe, you would know about the Craftsman Guilds. Or heck the relationship between a Knight, Squire, and Page.
In Feudal Europe, people were apprenticed to a craftsman's guild at extremely young ages (13 to 15 years of age). The parents of these children had to pay the guild to take the child as an apprentice. And the child learned the entire trade by memory. They didn't have text books like we have now, they didn't have computers like we have now. You had to memorize EVERYTHING.
And that's just for the relatively safe jobs like Masonry, and Blacksmithing. A Knight had to select a student basically from birth. The Page who was hired around the age of 5 to 8 years, was essentially a live in servant. The Squire was a Page who had reached the age of about 12 to 13, and was seen as mature enough to learn how to fight. Older Squires responsibilities often included following their Knights into battle as Shield or Standard Bearers. Meaning they had to be good enough to fight beside their Knight in heavy combat. A Squire would not become a Knight himself until around the age of 30 in some cases.
It is in fact the Page (Apprentice) - Squire (Padawan) - Knight (Knight) Relationship that is most clearly modeled by the Jedi Order. But this kind of student-teacher relationship existed in almost every culture between the 1200's to 1600's. Heck, the Freemason's are essentially the modern day embodiment of one of those ancient Craftsmen Guilds that has managed to survive into the modern era.
And actually, the Jedi have accepted older students before. Take post mind-wipe Revan as an example (though that may or may not have happened because they already knew he had training). Take Luke Skywalker for an example. Obi Wan could have insisted on training him from the moment he carried him away from the birthing chamber. Instead he opted to let Luke stay ignorant of the fact that he was force sensitive for around 17 years and was older than Anakin when he started his training (BY A LOT).
Also, Jedi Mind Tricks aren't Mind Control. They are what people who are fans of Mind Control Fiction (such as myself) like to call "Gentle Telepathic Persuasion." For an example of outright mind control you would be looking at the Imperius Curse from Harry Potter, not the Jedi Mind Trick. And even that is borderline safe when compared to what those in the know call "Mind Rape" which is essentially what Bastila helps the Jedi Council do to Revan.
I don't recall where the Jedi have actually stolen anything... unless you are lumping that in together with Qui Gon's Cheating at Dice to get Anakin. But what you forgot to mention about that Dice Game was that Watto was in all likelyhood using weighted dice himself. So the proper question is... is cheating a cheat in order to get a net positive outcome really a bad thing?
And really, being raised by the Jedi Order is hardly the worst fate most of these children could have. They have proper medical care, are fed, have warm beds to sleep in at night, are taught how to defend themselves from would be assailants, are taught manners, they are allowed to interact with politicians (something which most people never get the opportunity to do). Simply put these kids have some of the best living conditions in the Galaxy.
Arguing that killing is bad... you might as well be arguing that a person with a Black Belt is a bad person simply because they have to own a license because their own fists count as deadly weapons. And said license permits them to use those weapons if they feel that their person is in danger of lethal harm.
First of all, stating that a practice has historical reference doesn't negate the validity of arguing against the practice. You might think it's fine to take a child and insert them into a life of servitude. That doesn't mean those who disagree are wrong. It means they don't agree. Qui Gon says outright to Anakin, "Becoming a Jedi is not an easy task, and even if you succeed, it's a hard life." He wanted to make sure this was what Anakin wanted. And yet the Jedi choose that life for young children, based purely on their genetics. You really think there's no moral ambiguity to that practice?
As far as mind control, Qui Gon used the force to convince Boss Nass to give them a transport to Naboo. You can parse words all day, but it was using the force to influence another sentient creature's mind so he could take something that didn't belong to him. He tried the same thing with Watto. Watto made it absolutely clear that Republic credits had no value on Tatooine, yet Qui Gon tried to get him to take them anyway, so he could get the ship parts. Neither Watto nor Boss Nass were evil, yet Qui Gon used the force to trick them into giving him things that didn't belong to him. Again, I'm genuinely surprised that you don't see any moral ambiguity here.
And I'm sure I don't have to go into lying here. Obi Wan looked Luke right in the eyes and lied to him about his father. He can spew "point of view" nonsense all day, but he was lying.
And the black belt analogy isn't applicable because a black belt only kills in defense. Their "license" doesn't permit them to kill in the name of Justice. They can't just go and kill a president because they think he's evil. Yet Mace was going to kill Palpatine, not out of self defense, but because he knew Palpatine was evil and dangerous. Luke told Obi Wan outright that Vader was still good, but Obi Wan didn't care. He made it clear to Luke that his only option was to kill Vader. Lucky for the galaxy, Luke didn't follow that advice.
Look, I'm actually on your side on this debate. I think the Jedi are the good guys. I really do.
I just happen to think it's intellectually dishonest to just blindly disregard any and every criticism of the Jedi. They were flawed. Their system was flawed. That's stated outright in the Episode III novel. Yoda realizes during his fight with Palpatine that the Jedi lost because they had refused to evolve and grow. He realized the dark side was winning because the Jedi had become too entrenched in dogma while the Sith evolved.
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Actually what the Jedi do is no worse than what the Shaolin Monastery still does in China. In fact many parents in China actually PAY the Shaolin Monastery to take their kids, because in many ways an education from the Shaolin is very similar in China to an education from an Ivy League University in the rest of the world. Not to mention the added side perk that children who are trained in the Shaolin style martial arts have the opportunity to become world famous celebrities on the Martial Arts Demonstration Circuit.
In fact the Jedi Order is largely modeled after many Chinese and Japanese Martial Arts Monasteries. And for the record, not one person in the world would argue that the Shaolin Monastery is EVIL or qualifies as "Ick-Factor." At least not anymore.
Also can be likened to many European Monasteries who took in orphans and impoverished children in the middle ages so that they would be raised in a setting that actually cared for them, instead of having to live on the streets or in slums.
For reference, Shaolin is one of the oldest styles of Self-Defense Martial Arts in the world. The Monastery having been founded in 477 A.D.
As luck would have it, I'm pretty familiar with Shoalin. My brother was a shoalin instructor for years. That said, I appreciate the effort to make sure I understood the reference (I mean that sincerely, not in a snarky way).
And again, I'm not saying the Jedi are evil. I don't think they are.
But (IMO), there is definitely an "ick-factor" to taking a child from his home and raising him in complete and total servitude, based entirely on that child's genetic disposition. You may disagree, and that's fine. But I think there's merit to opposing a practice like that.
It's a noble cause, yes, but there is a strong argument against those practices. I mean, it's a requirement for the Jedi that if a child is old enough to have any choice in the matter, he's not allowed to join them. Anakin was 10 years old and was "too old." He was only accepted because he was the chosen one.
But I cannot stress enough (as I've stated in every post I've made) that I don't think the Jedi are evil. They're not.
And I do think the Sith are unquestionably evil.
I'm just saying the Jedi have some practices that skirt the line between right and wrong. They control other people's minds. Even good people (Boss Nass wasn't bad). They steal. They raise children to serve their cause. They lie. They kill. They literally cheat (Qui Gon cheated at the dice game to free Anakin).
There's an example of each act above in the movies. Sometimes, more than one example.
There's very little the Jedi won't do in the name of the preserving their idea of justice.
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The Jedi don't "take" kids. They either take in Force-sensitive orphans or they ASK parents to give their children to the Order. It's really well established in the EU that a child becoming a Jedi was seen as a great honor on many worlds. Also, parents who were very poor or on oppressive worlds were often happy to give their kids to the Jedi because it ensured their child would be well cared for and raised to dedicating their lives to doing good.
The Jedi also had VERY strict rules about gaining kids because propaganda calling them "baby stealers" was a favorite tactic of the Order's enemies.
That's a good point and I concede that it was a poor choice of words on my part.
But it's still got a pretty high ick-factor, no matter how noble the cause. Based purely on genetics, a child is being assigned to a life of servitude and isn't given a choice in the matter until after he or she has been completely indoctrinated by the order that took him.
I can't think of a real-world analogy to this practice that isn't pretty high on the "that's messed up" scale.
Don't get me wrong, here. I'm on the "Jedi are not evil" side. I'm just saying some of their policies and activities definitely skirt the line between right and wrong.
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eh... no.... my point in stating that was this:
If it is stated in the Constitution of the Galactic Republic (or a similar founding document), that a planet (or planets) is allowed to leave the Galactic Republic for any reason whatsoever. Then the entirety of the Clone Wars should never have happened, because the Galactic Republic had no valid reason to go to war with the Seperatists.
If however the Constitution of the Galactic Republic actually says something like this:
"You are free to join the Galactic Republic of your own free will, and gain all the benefits there of. But should you try to leave for any reason whatsoever, the Galactic Republic reserves the right to execute full military control over your planet."
then the Clone Wars were justified, but only because the planets that joined the Galactic Republic did so on the assumption that it would be in their best interest to join, without thinking that at some point in the future they may not want to remain part of the Galactic Republic.
Also, if the latter statement is true, then the Galactic Republic ceases to be a Democracy, and becomes a hybrid Dictatorship/Democracy, much like the Roman Empire was while Julius Caesar was in charge.
And hand-waving it to say that Palpatine orchestrated the whole thing, is kind of silly. Either the laws allowing Palpatine to manipulate the events in such a way already existed, or he had to get them passed prior to episode I. Either way, there is no way that it could have gone down like the following:
Palpatine: "Hey Senator of the Trade Federation, I want you to blockade Naboo."
TF: "Yeah okay."
1 year later
TF: "Hey Palps, that didn't go so well."
Palps: "Okay, well now you and Doku are going to rebel from the Republic."
TF: "Yeah okay."
Doku: "Yeah, sure."
In Senate Room:
Palps: "Senators I regret to inform you that several of our delegation have rebelled against us. We must take up arms and force them to submit."
Senators: "Here Here. Let us take it to those rebellious scum. By the way, do we have an army?"
There had to be some sort of law relating to the issue of what would happen if a planet separated from the Galactic Republic pre-existing in order for Palpatine to do any of the stuff that he did in the movies.
The Republic was breaking up and had no laws to prevent it. That was the entire point of Episode II. Because there was no law to prevent it, Palpatine convinced Jar Jar to put forth a proposal to give Palpatine the power to prevent it.
Once that happened, Palpatine was able to commission an army and actually go to war to stop it (with an army he and his former master had ordered made).
The good guys (i.e. Bail, Amadala, etc) wanted to convince them to stay through diplomacy, not war. But Palpatine gained so much power, the other senators were afraid to stand against him.
The reason Palpatine rose to power was because there was no law against a planet leaving the Republic. The corrupt senators gave him the power to stop it, which was the beginning of the Clone Wars.
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not to mention the 3 year period beginning in 22 BBY and ending in 19 BBY known as the Clone Wars, where in the Galactic Republic used an army of indentured slaves (Clone Soldiers) to fight a war against Separatists. If planets that are part of the Republic are free to leave the Republic at any time, for any reason whatsoever, then why did Episodes II, and III happen, and why did the TV series known as The Clone Wars need to be made?
While that shows the weakness of the Republic, it's actually an argument against your point. Episodes II and III happened because a Sith Lord orchestrated the construction of that slave army, then took over the Republic, gained emergency powers, and commissioned the army.
Sure, the Republic didn't stand against him, but it only happened because a Sith Lord made it happen.
This wasn't a Republic action. It was a Sith action. Palpatine orchestrated all of this. It was not going to happen until Palpatine manipulated them into giving him complete control.
There were thousands (2000, I think) of Senators who signed a petition to stop the war and move to diplomacy. The result was Palpatine declaring them enemies of the state. Those Senators were the founders of the rebel alliance.
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I think the Jedi are canonically not 'good' - they avoid moral judgements whenever possible. From their point of view, they're not anything because good doesn't exist. They just try to aim for the outcome that will promote as much harmony in the galaxy as can be managed given the situation. Their philosophy is all about pragmatism and moral flexibility, tempered by compassion, and avoiding thinking too far ahead. Usually that's stuff people appreciate, like negotiating peace, stopping crime syndicates, etc. Sometimes it's not.
The issue is confused because people tend to think of Jedi as good as a result of the myths and stories that have grown up around them, and some of them start to believe the hype.
If you define good as what's best for the function of civilised society, then the Jedi are good. If you don't, they'll probably not be in your eyes.
I think that's a very good assessment.
There's a difference between good and "not evil."
The Jedi obviously aren't evil.
But I don't think they're good either. They're manipulative, they have no problem lying, they have no problem using the force to basically take over another person's mind, they take children from homes as babies and pull them into the order, and many other things.
But they genuinely do it for peace.
Honestly, if I'd been in Luke's place, it would have been very difficult to stand against the Emperor. Ben and Yoda lied to Luke, withheld vital information from him, and demanded that he kill his own father, regardless of whether or not he was still good.
They made those decisions because they were fighting for the good of the galaxy, but still... that's some harsh stuff.
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One question for the "Sith are not evil" folks:
How do you define evil?
Because it seems to me that most of the "Sith are not evil" arguments are really just "Evil is a point of view" arguments, which is kind of outside the scope of the debate.
The question of whether or not the Sith are evil is really predicated on the assumption that they exist in a fictional universe where evil is a real thing.
And really, if you accept that evil is a real thing in the Star Wars universe and then step away from the existential arguments, it's hard to deny that the Sith are evil. They were created to be evil. They were designed to be evil. Every aspect of their culture, their appearance, their voices, their dialogue is dripping with the traditional concepts of evil.
I'm kind of surprised that this is such a big debate. Recognizing that the Sith are evil is easy. Like I said earlier, you really have to do some mental gymnastics to define them as anything else.
The better question to debate, IMO, is this: Are the Jedi good? To be clear, that's not "Are the Jedi evil?" That would lead to another existential debate about the nature of evil.
But accepting that Star Wars is a world where good and evil are absolutes, answering the question of whether or not the Jedi are good is a real challenge.
Spotting the evil characters in Star Wars is easy. Spotting the good characters... that's the real challenge.
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The Millennium Falcon, because if I didn't choose it, my 10 year old self would travel from 1980 just to look at me with tears in his eyes and say, "Why?"
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The republic fell and Palpatine took over because it was corrupt.
The Republic was overthrown because corruption from within was not something the Jedi were equipped to handle. And the Sith were able to use that to overthrow the government.
The only reason the Sith took over was because they were able to maneuver in a corrupt system in ways the Jedi simply couldn't.
I think that alone shows the Sith were evil and the Jedi weren't.
The Jedi were naive and foolish, but not evil.
If the Republic (and the Jedi) were evil, the corruption wouldn't have been a disease to the Republic. It would have been an intended part of the system.
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I've never seen a good person cackle with delight as he kills another person with lightning shooting from his fingertips.
I could accept killing an enemy that has to die. A good person might have to do that.
And shooting lightning from your fingertips... I suppose that doesn't automatically qualify you as evil.
But the cackling with delight part... it takes some pretty extensive mental gymnastics to rationalize that one.
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The last 3 nights late when I get off work I actually assemble a group and we go to do FP and one or another person is not eligible for the quest and we can't do it and end up doing nothing!!!!!!!!!! ***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you serious??? and nobody in the group knows what the need or what they did and they just say sorry.......... BIOWARE YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Resetting the instance will likely TCO this.
Also, that's a lot of exclamation points.
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I read the whole thread and wasn't specifically replying to OP.
Oh, I see.
Then, yeah, I typically agree with you.
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On another note, every time I log into SWToR I'm "roleplaying". You may not know this but I'm not really an blind alien with Jedi powers in real life. I figure the rest is just cybersex or different gravitations of cybersex peripheries, so I avoid your nazi roleplay like the plague.
I agree with everything you said in regards to the vast majority of servers for this game. I play for immersion, which many consider roleplay, but I never talk "in character" and such. And I don't care what other people name their characters. Some make me laugh, and I'm appreciative of that.
But you disregarded the most important part of the OP. He's talking about that name on an RP server. This server is created for people that enjoy the "nazi roleplay" you despise. By playing on that server, the OP is respecting the fact that you (and I) don't play that way. We have 90% (or more) of the servers in this entire game.
To join an RP server and willfully choose a name that is contradictory to everything an RP server stands for is disrespectful.
I'm not talking about someone that might choose that server accidentally or ignorantly. I'm talking about people that do it fully knowing that a server is designated for RP. Derpy Derp on a regular PVE server may be a great guy, but if he willfully chooses to create that character on a server designated for RP... well, that's not quite as nice.
And that was the point of the OP. It wasn't a complaint of the name. It was a complaint of the name on an RP server. The OP intentionally chose to respect that you don't want him on your server. He's only asking for that same level of respect.
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If SWTOR was going to have any effect on ...well ANY MMO it would have happened by now.
OP you need to understand some people do not like to read. Now this is not a put down all you have to do is open a book and (I will lose some here) alot of good books have more then 3-6 lines in a paragraph. And if we go back to older texts to some great reading.. you are readying pages of "I can't read that, wall of text".
I guess you can just hi-light it and have MAC read it to you?
HAHA its a game no more no less. Your posting on a gaming forum that you can't read what 11 lines.
Want a truth? Your paying for a game where they have made it clear from the start its all about MONEY not players. No I am not.. no I don't post this has been the ONLY one for weeks.
Great game just not enough people in zones for ME. And patch 1.2 will not fix it.
Your writing style doesn't support your support of the OP's writing style.
On topic, I think the only thing that will topple WoW is cheaper technology, a shift in the MMO paradigm, and time.
As long as MMOs have the current design... and as long as there are players that can only play on dial-up with 10 year old computers... WoW will continue to be a cultural phenomenon.
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If this game was not Star Wars, but some other lore/world/universe, would you still play?
If yes, list 3 reasons why.
If no, list 3 reasons why.
Constructive and civilized responses only please.
To be honest, that's an unanswerable question. It would depend on whether or not the story/lore/universe was one that I found intriguing or interesting.
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Someone mentioned that the eyeball test isn't reliable, I think to the contrary it is very uselful if used properly. People could tell WAR and AoC where in serious trouble with the eyeball test but fanbois were in disbelief till the axe fell. .
While I agree they probably have a problem with a few light servers (the last ones added during launch), I respectfully disagree with this part. You're pointing out two games that happened to be right, but ignoring the fact that people said the same exact things in every single mmo I've ever played - successful or not. It's like saying we should trust a broken clock because it was right twice in one day.
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Here is a serious question or questions for this thread since the majority of you do not want to group .
If you don't want to play with anyone and want to experience all of this content solo , then why are the soloer's the first ones and very adiment against
A cross server LFG tool , or a same server LFG tool .
A dps meter
Add-ons
Macros
I have been thinking about it alot and the same people that are hardcore against grouping are also the ones that are hardcore against group features that are implemented by other mmos .
If your gonna play solo then why does it matter and even more so why are you so against it ?
I'll be honest here, I've never seen a soloer adamantly stand against a single one of those things.
Those arguments are almost entirely exclusive to various types of groupers.
Episode V
in STAR WARS Discussion
Posted · Edited by Vecke
Concerning Artoo, we really have no idea what's going on in his little astromech mind. He might have never met yoda. I mean, Anakin loved him, but droids are basically tools. I doubt much time is spent introducing tools to your friends.
As for Yoda, I'm sure he was just lying. I mean, lying to Luke seemed to be Yoda's and Obi-Wan's favorite pastime.