sporkan
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Posts posted by sporkan
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Lest say it plain an simple SWTOR healing usefulness of the UI is terribad.
- Poor display and categorization of buff and debuffs
- Constant resorting of buff/debuff icons
- No way to hide useless buff/debuff icons
- No way to tweak conveniently player, party and OP frames
- No way to mouse heal
- No way to record target
On a scale of 1 - 10(best) I'd rage SWTOR UI at 3 max.
Thank you! Someone else gets it. Yes, people can heal in operations - guess what, if they couldn't, then the developers would have to nerf the operations to make them easier. In fact, I suspect that's what they've done.
People can enjoy this game, and can say I need to learn to play all they want (and if I continue playing, I'd have to). However, the UI is incredibly sub-par when it comes to healing. You guys can grit and bear it if you want to, but I don't see why I should have to.
- Poor display and categorization of buff and debuffs
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Not to mention that there are two other healing classes that could be used that don't rely on HOT's nearly as heavily as operatives/scoundrel class does. If HOTs is such an issue that they're refusing to play the game, why not try one of the other classes first? Guess if they can't get what they want, they don't want to even attempt it. Oh well, I personally wouldn't want a healer on my team that couldn't adapt anyways.
Yes, because these classes don't have HoTs, and this completely addresses the issue with controls.
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Add-on support is not coming, sporkan. If you require add-ons to be proficient at your class, you will either remain non-proficient, or quit.
Choose.
As has been said in the thread numerous times: it's not about addons. It's about a non-terrible healing UI.
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You are asking for the ability to mod the game, or for them to make healing more expedient for you. The ability to make it more expedient is there. You just have to use it. It may not be something you're used to, but once you commit the actions to memory, then it'll all be second nature.
How can I make it more expedient? There were a couple suggestions, but as I mentioned in my replies, those suggestions are not quality suggestions, as 1) they require way too many keybinds and would make other abilities less expedient, and 2) there is no way to heal without changing target.
As to my request to mod the game:
My request is that there is a healing UI that isn't terrible. Whether that comes from improvements to the existing UI is irrelevant. I'm not asking for them to allow free-for-all on game-breaking mods. I'm asking for them to make a healing UI that someone who only plays on private servers for MMOs that existed in 2005 wouldn't come in and call outdated
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I played WoW back in the day. The top healer mod had little buttons under each character's bar that lit up to tell you which one to click and then cast the appropriate heal spell and also included a cleanse button. The mod removed any need for skillful healing. All you had to do was avoid stupid and click glowing buttons.
And if you'd read my post, you'll notice that:
1) I am NOT in any way asking for this
2) Those addons stopped working either late in Vanilla or early in TBC, and you couldn't have the addon make your decisions for you anymore
3) I am asking for more efficient controls and better information presentation, not for the game to choose my heals or targets for me
So why do you assume that just because I want to present the information better and to take each action from 4 motions down to 2 or 3, that I want the Vanilla WoW Healbot that ran everything for you?
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People complimented me on my healing all the time in the early expansions in WoW, and I was able to use mouseover and/or clique then.
Addons that improve efficiency or improve information presentation don't play the game for you.
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The Naga replaces buttons on your keyboard. How is it that back in the old days of DOS gaming you could program every joystick button individually, but on games today you're limited to 5 mouse buttons and then rely on macros?
This is an incredibly disappointing discovery I have made. I will almost definitely NOT stick with SWTOR over other MMOs if their healing UI can't even compare to the healing UI that other MMOs had over 10 years ago.
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You can use the interface editor, go to the target window and enable highlight your own buffs. if you do, when you target a person your own buffs on that person (hots etc) will be highlighted with a golden border. Again, if you want to know if someone has your hot on them you have to target them, then observe their entire buff bar, which, since the great buff / debuff inflation of 3.0, might consist of several dozen different buffs. If you managed to spot your own hot or not, you can then repeat this exiting process all over again with the next person. On the raid frame, however, you know, the thing healers use to heal a raid, there's no way to tell which stack of probes is your own - if you see any probes at all in the first place, because it seems the raid frame has to display more significant info first, like if a person has his jedi knight / consular buff on and other such important intel, which take priority over trivial matters such as hots. Why is it this way? Because software development is teh hard.
You can use the hot overlay from Star Parse, it does work reasonably well even tho it has a 3s delay, but the need to readjust the overlay to different people makes it a hassle especially in pvp where ppl might leave and join and the position of ppl in the raid frame is less static. That too, would be easily solved if the game would include your raidframe position in the combat log, but again, software development is hard.
WoW does a pretty good job of controlling addons so they don't get too game-breaking (the problem they have is they've made the majority of the game so easy it doesn't really matter). In the early days it was pretty but, but they've reigned addons in since then. Even then, the only reason I want an addon is to do what the default UI is not doing, and if the default UI was capable of doing so I wouldn't need an addon.
Targeting each individual player just to check HoTs is a significant inefficiency. It would be okay in a game like KOTOR, which is technically turn-based and you can pause, but is not good design for an MMO. I'm not going to have much sympathy for the developers of the game, considering people have been programming quality HoT displays for addons in WoW since the mid-2000s. A "your hots up front" and the ability for your HoTs to be highlighted would fix the issue.
I do not like the Razer Naga, as the buttons replace the numpad, which I use. It actually has less buttons available than a normal mouse, in that it takes away from your keyboard buttons to make use of the mouse buttons. I also have trouble hitting the right button on it (although I do like the look of the new MOBA-style Naga they have).
What is Star Parse?
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If you're only factoring in motions, yes. If you're ignoring my other suggestion, also yes.
However, now I need 16 keys to handle targeting and heals, which means I have to find 16 more key combinations to have for my other actions, such as damage and utility.
With Clique or Mouseover macros, I can keep the enemy targeted to more efficiently use those abilities as well.
It's also easier on the brain to use the mouse with a UI than it is to use solely the keyboard, which is why Windows replaced command-line operating systems.
So, in a vacuum, it might be better, but when you factor in that I can't keep enemies targeted and heal, I can't make use of the mouse, and I need to use a lot more key bindings, I don't find it as efficient.
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To make it clear what I'm talking about:
Clique is an addon for WoW that makes it so you can bind an ability to the mouse, and when you click on a player's unit frame, it will use that ability. For example, I might bind Mouse1 to a big heal, Mouse2 to an efficient heal, Mouse4 to a HoT, and Mouse5 to an AoE. So I would put my cursor over the tank and click Mouse4, then click Mouse2 on the tank or anyone who needed to be topped off, and then when bigger hits came in I'd click Mouse5 or Mouse1 on the appropriate targets to do big amounts of heals.
With Clique, I am not letting the addon play for me. I'm still in complete control. I can just do my healing without relying on keyboard dexterity.
Similarly, Mouseover Macros would be a macro in WoW which would like: "/cast [target=mouseover] Deliverance" or "/cast [target=mouseover] Rejuvenate". This way I don't need to actually click on anyone to use the heal. I would simply put that macro on my action bar to replace the ability, and then I would put my mouse over who I wanted to heal and press the button. (You can get more complex in WoW and throw in modifiers like if I hit Shift it will heal my target and if I hit control it will heal myself).
In both of these cases, I am still in 100% control over the healing that is being done and the decisions made. I can just reduce the amount of motions my fingers make in order to do so.
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This is to contrast with something like Healbot from the earliest days of WoW, which would automatically sort players based on health deficit and then would smart-select a heal based on the total health deficit of the player and how many players were injured. (This was nerfed very early in WoW's development and doesn't work anymore). In this case you would just have a button on-screen that you would repeatedly click and it would do all of the healing for you.
This is an example of a bad way to do healing, in that it completely replaces any decisions you as a player would make. It is not what I am requesting.
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Where is anything automated? I'm still making the same amount of decisions, but I'm pushing less buttons to do so.
It's like how in Microsoft Word, I can hit Ctrl+C to copy, I can right-click and then select Copy to copy, or I can go up to Edit and then click on Copy. Then after going to where I want to paste, I can hit Ctrl+V to paste, I can right-click and select Paste to paste, or I can go up to Edit and then click on Paste.
All three involve the same decision - what am I copying and where is it going? The same is true of mouse-over macros or clique style healing. I still pick who to heal, and I still pick what heal to use. I just use my hands more efficiently to accomplish the same task.
Neither mouseover macros nor clique will decide for you who to heal or what ability to use. It's not an artificial intelligence that is helping me. It's merely a tool to make my hands more efficient.
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I'm not going to argue that other healers CAN do the content. However, I am going to say that 4 movements (move mouse to target, click on target, move finger to keyboard button, click key) are less efficient than 3 movements (move mouse over target, move finger to keyboard button, click key) or two movements (move mouse over target, click appropriate mouse button).
This also helps you react quicker than queuing abilities.
The biggest reason I prefer the clique style is it saves space on my action bars. If I can use my mouse for healing, I can use my normal buttons for damage or utility.
As you said, there's a GCD system, so it's not like easier controls will make someone broken powerful. It's just more user-friendly.
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I played this game for several months after launch, but gave up because I was unhappy with the healing UI. Specifically, my issues as an operative were:
1. I could not differentiate my HoTs from the other operatives, which made it a nightmare trying to maintain them
2. There was no mouseover or clique style of healing, which makes it simply more efficient to heal.
3. There exists no API system in the game to allow users to create custom addons which would alleviate these issues.
I have just picked up the game again, and it appears that neither of these issues have been fixed. Is there a way around this?
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The fact that nobody has replied suggests this information is as hard to find as I feared.
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I'm currently level 51, but the highest level items I can see to spend my planetary commendations on is level 50. Am I missing one, or are these the best items I can get for my currency?
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My problem with wildstar is that their telegraph system that they are so proud of makes it look like the entire game is going to be looking at the ground for the correct color instead of actually playing the game and looking for spell effects. It's not new, like they think it is, and it makes the game less interesting.
My problems with GSF I already outlined: It's not a good experience for new players, and if it's not a good experience then why do I want to keep playing?
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It's official, people are comparing swtor to star trek online. I suppose we all knew this day would come...swtor is now completely dead.
IMO it was dead the moment it went Free to Play, it’s just a dead man walking now. Unfortunately, no other MMO is any fun, so I’m here. My comparison to STO is because Star Wars has the lore and it has precedent with previous games to go both into space combat and foot soldier/jedi combat. STO did the same. Not too many other MMOs could pull off doing 2 systems with their lore, and I’m not even convinced SWTOR has.
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I agree with this in principle, but I would add they should shrink the reticule, add joystick support and on foot combat ala BF2 using simple mesh models to represent players. I have suggested this in the past, and this is what they should have done in the first place.I also suggested a 40 percent top tier nerf across the board, reducing the nerf as you drop in tier to reduce the arc and give new players a fighting chance. Victories should be based on skill, not gear IMO.
Well, for the most part these aren’t mutually exclusive with my suggestions. Basically, they need to 1) balance it, 2) make it newbie-friendly (i.e. tutorials and tooltips) and then 3) expand on it to make it progression-based like an MMORPG instead of just an arcadey mess.
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I understand GSF is a mini-game, but it could be so much more. I took one look at Wildstar and said “next”. Star citizen looks interesting on paper, but I doubt I’ll even pick it up.
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I've played some of the recent "MMO" simulator games, and GSF seems to have done the Prequel Trilogy version of those games: it's nice and shiny, but it's a terrible experience for a newer player. I played through the tutorial, and it was not sufficient to get me up to speed on the controls and systems of GSF. (It is less user friendly than the space missions, which at least give you tooltips for the action bar).
I think the idea of GSF has a lot of potential, but the way it's implemented I don't even want to bother with it. Not only is it going to take extra work for me just to figure out what to do (beyond what's in the tutorial), but I am being thrust into the mix in a starter ship against people in high ranking ships. Compare to MMORPGs that usually either have level brackets or catch-up mechanics for PvP, or games like the World of ______ series which have you closely arranged based on tier.
To me, the things that would make GSF better are...
1) Better tutorials and/or tooltips for newbie-friendliness
2) Place people into battles based on their craft's level/quality instead of all in one
3) Make our ships seem more substantial. Give us a hangar we can explore our ships in like for our personal starship. Make our hangar more like one out of a simulator game. Make us feel like our character is connected to GSF instead of it feeling like TOR is the interactive loading screen for the game.
4) This is a big one, but IMO SWTOR has the opportunity to take GSF and make it into much more than just a new mode of PvP. Star Trek Online did a lot with their space battles, including PvE and PvP. It would be interesting if you had a Pilot level and a Character level that were independent of each other, where GSF functions as a second game and a second type of progression you can do, full with PvE solo battles, group missions, and PvP. It can be expanded on to include capital ships, encouraging players to work together in guilds to construct custom capital ships they can bring that are more powerful than the base ships that would be in the mission or battle. There are a lot of games in the past, like the X-Wing or Battlefront games, or even other franchises like EVE/STO or World of Warplanes, where the game design could draw from to make an epic space leveling adventure instead of a non-newbie-friendly-cluster-frankfurter of what my experience with GSF has been.
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The Rank 7 starship upgrades "increase missile damage to 500". What was missile damage before? Without knowing that I don't know how good an increase to 500 is.
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Yep, I found the comparative tooltips, thanks! I was busy working on crewskills though so I didn't get a chance to try methods of equipping, so I'll give that a go later.
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Is there an easier way in game to manage companion gear? For my gear, I mouse over it and I see the +/- stats and I can tell if it's an upgrade, and then I click it and it goes on. For my companion, I have to open up the companion window, look at both pieces to compare, and then click+drag in order to swap gear. Is it possible to have comparative tooltips for my companion as well, or to have a modifier (i.e. alt+right click) which will equip to companion?
If this is not possible, then this should be in the suggestion section instead.
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You actually limit your customer base using the neutral GTN on my server, because people don't check it to buy things for the same reason they don't go there to sell.
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I am personally very upset now that I have bought my GTN thinking it was going to be the same one I've always used on the fleet and capital city, only to find out there's nothing on there. I spent 5 million credits to go to an empty market. All of the GTNs that your faction has access to should be the same, IMO. I remember from my days in *that other game* that the only reason people used the neutral AH system was to transfer items to a character on a different faction.
I purchased this upgrade because I wanted the convenience of using the GTN between planets, without 4 extra loading screens (get on fleet, use elevator to get to main part of fleet and back, get back on ship) and without having to step into a lagfest. It is also nice that everything is located real close on my ship, and I don't have to worry about any event plagues spreading to me if I'm not on my ship. However, I am now down 5 million, and because the neutral GTN is a wasteland, I still have to go to the fleet or the city.
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I'd like to see legacy banks put into the game in a future patch. It would make it a lot easier to store stuff to be used by different alts as I level them.
SWTOR Healing UI
in General Discussion
Posted
I use mouseover especially for interrupts in WoW, but also for CC as well. So, yes, mouseover for tanks and DD would be great.