Darth_Malevolent
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Posts posted by Darth_Malevolent
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I stated that after sourcing to me that dreadful YouTube upload, you mustn't have watched the films, otherwise you'd realise just how badly an attempt that was, I have seen much much better, hell Plinkett's reviews did a better job than that uploader did, and that is saying something, also I never called you a fanboy, you called me a fanboy(It would be fangirl, the correct term, BTW.) for taking the poor examples and showing how easily they are refuted.
Anyways, I won't have this thread derailed again, Lucas states something, and it becomes the highest level of canon, regardless of what any of us think of his credibility, or whatever you chose to insult this time.
Lucas owns the Star Wars universe, he owns the canon in it, he owns the EU, he has word of god say over it, if you don't like the canon and/or how it is handled, I'd suggest you take up fanon or non-canon.
No, I just don't hold George Lucas' word with any credibility to dictate who is more powerful simply because I started the engine. And I wasn't the first to state fanboy, then said it as a reply after you used the word fanboy, you put the words in my mouth. But what I was conveying was, your canon, is taken because of what he said in an interview, it isn't written law; you can worship him all you wish, doesn't make him "not senile" Though he got the ball rolling, I won't give him complete credit on anything, since he doesn't deserve it.
And it's dreadful because it validated his argument to your disapproval in the fact you can come up with maybe excuses for those inconsistencies, or do you truly believe Lucas had intended? This is pointless, you're strapped to Lucas' back like a Yoda backpack
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Again your opinion means nothing in the face of Star Wars canon, Lucas' statements are Word of God canon, more canon than anything else, it is simply the way things are, his universe, his rules, without him, you wouldn't be here whining right now that you can't have your way, don't mean to be rude, but that's exactly how you are coming across.
lol, that's funny since I've stated before your defending this as if I said your deity was imperfect. I'm not whining, and ofcourse you mean to be rude, can't take the high road after taking the low road for the last few pages. Think your insults started with, "obviously, you've never watched the films"... then it was, "fanboy" I believe or something of that nature. Besides, his credibility is shot, and your just a follower... say everything you like, but its obvious Sith are more powerful, and credibility is everything, Lucas has little to none now; but ppl still follow others with no credibility, look at the ppl who follow Michael Moore, or Manson
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Your opinion on the matter, My opinion on the matter, even Leland Chee's opinion on the matter is worth absolutely nothing in comparison to George Lucas' statements, whether any of us like it or not, he IS the Word of God canon, anything and everything he states is ultimate canon fact, it is as simple as that, 'get over it or get out' as they say.
Nah, Im staying here, because George Lucas is an idea man, not a good director, not a good writer, he's stated these facts in an interview. And the fact he doesn't wish to allow anyone to have a character more powerful than Sidious or Luke, is the equivalent to a child taking his toys away and not letting anyone play with them... and once again, for a person who's contributed probably less than a percent or two to the total lore of the series, you put alot of empasis on a money grubber's statements
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You are perpetuating the thought that this is my opinion, no, it is George Lucas' own words, seriously, you need to sort out your lore.
Eh, yet again your missing my point, and doubt you'd ever get it... George Lucas though the creator, is hardly a credible source based upon his constant changing of canon, contradictory statements during interviews, and inconsistencies he caused in creating the prequels; I don't need to sort out anything, think you need to get your head out of the sand
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George Lucas has stated balance in the force was created with the destruction of the Sith, the dark side is a cancer in the force, normally it doesn't effect the balance, but the Banite Sith did, Sidious had completely blinded the Jedi and clouded the force in darkness, Balance was restored with the death of Vader and Sidious.
Now Sith are a cancer?.... who's not biased here? lol. When there is light there is always dark, you are working with a lopsided scale lady. Anakin brings balance to the force by killing all the Jedi in the temple, 2 Jedi, 2 Sith.... then he fulfills the next part of the prophecy, to destroy the Sith, he does this. But the balance meant was when he killed all the Jedi. In EP 1, Mace Windu says "You mean the one who will bring balance to the force, you believe it's this boy?" nothing was said about destroying the Sith. It was only in ep 3 did they tack on to destroy the Sith. Those two things though together in a sentence are separate things, He brought balance to the force and destroyed the Sith, eventually.
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Well, sure, that's true. But Varangian just made that post where he explained the discrepancies. Assuming that by noticing the difference in those two lines that you're knowledgeable about Star Wars lore you should be able to piece it together via Varangian's explanation.
Although I have no idea whether or not what he said is accurate and explains the difference between the lines (Again, I'm not all knowing in Star Wars lore).
That's true, but like I said... when watching a film, I doubt you normally would have a reference manual on hand to help you understand some of the mistakes; ofcourse, normally an average viewer wouldn't care... but if you make movies based on the audience not caring if something makes sense or is consistent, they won't even bother eventually; point is, the average viewer wouldn't reference, "Oh, he meant the battle of Ruusan" they wouldn't care. These are movies first, cult following second.... and the fact the excuse was made "after" the film, holds no standing in explaining anything except them covering their butts
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The difference may be significant, but neither of these lines are.
You have to accept that these lines have been explained. Perhaps not in the movies, but nonetheless explained. Your ************ about what them so as to discredit George Lucas is helping no one, least of all yourself.
Don't know why, it's just ppl like you, who refuse to believe Lucas can do no wrong, will give him absolute credibility in Star Wars lore.... I highly doubt if you asked him the names of the Solo children, he would know... nor would he care I think
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Well, I'm not talking about the significance of the number, but about the lines themselves. For me, being someone not versed in Star Wars lore, those lines went in one ear and out the other. They meant essentially nothing to me. And that's why I don't feel that that particular discrepancy is a big deal. That's relatively trivial compared to something that conflicts with the central plot of the films.
That's true, but alot of things, you don't see the first time; but when you do realize it... your like (the viewer)... huh? That isn't right...... and start asking yourself... "was this a mistake?"
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Well, to be fair, I doubt the discrepancy between the two lines would be noticed by the average Star Wars fan. I never noticed it until you just brought it up. Even so, I don't think that those lines are really all that important anyways. To the fan who doesn't know everything there is to know about Star Wars lore it will go unnoticed. To the fan who is well versed in Star Wars lore it will be easily explained (just like it was just now).
1 generation is roughly 20 years, which would mean 20000 years, not 1000 years, that's significant... still that's my point; It's a film, a film should stand alone, you don't have to read Lord of the Rings to figure out inconsistencies reasons for inconsistencies for one film to another, to my knowledge there are none
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I could very easily take every example in that video and point out how wrong that example is, but I simply don't think I should have to, I could care less about Lucas ever since he decided that his own characters had to be the be all end all of the Star Wars lore, instead of just leaving things the way they were and letting the fans decide via the way we do, because now everyone just states, they are undisputed champions of their respective Orders.
You are so quick to claim that I am a fanboy or some such of Lucas, just because I won't insult him and everything he has ever done, that you make me question just exactly how objective your own arguments are.
I didn't say insult him, him being inconsistent in his films is a fact that could be reinterpreted however you wish the excuse to be. I never believed that being critical, or pointing out inconsistencies, or critiquing... was considered an insult. Simply pointing out that his credibility shouldn't be absolute since all the "inconsistencies" in his films has to be interpreted by the fans as Obi Wan was lying, or having to source facts or reasons from a novel.
But I suppose Lucas is beyond critique right?
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Obi-wan was referring to the entirety of the history of the Old Republic, going back 25,000 years.
On the other hand, Palpatine was referring to Republic since the inception of the Ruusan Reformation. Note his use of "this republic" as opposed to "the Republic."
Arguably, the Republic after the Ruusan Reformation could be considered a republic separate from the Republic before the Ruusan Reformation, while still considered a direct descendant. Likewise, the Jedi would have the guardians of peace and justice of all the manifested Republics of the past (characterized by Obi-wan as the "Old Republic") which were connected by one long chain of governments.
There ya go.
And Im sure we got all that from the movie right?.... Im starting to wonder if all the literature is just to fill in the mistakes Lucas made making the prequels
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You go out of your way to make Lucas look like some senile fool who can't do anything, how is that anything but malicious? and I am defending nothing, just pointing out something that is clearly incorrect.
Nope, they're absolutely correct, you just don't wish to see it... I find this debate is like as if Im pointing out a specific religion's Deity isn't a perfect being... point out any imperfections, and it's "raise the floodgates, man your posts, they wont take us without a fight." Is it so hard not to give Lucas absolute credibility, especially now? With all these obvious inconsistencies you must make excuses for him?
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You may want to go and find out more about Padme Amidala, just a suggestion. /facepalm
Why should everything tie together? why should everything be left for interpretation? you assume many things about how George Lucas made his films, funny thing is, Lucas is an exceptionally intelligent individual, but the obvious difference between you and me is this: You want to maliciously attack Lucas and everything he has ever done, because of some personal issue.
I however could care less, Lucas is great with concepts and his imagination, but he certainly should not be the one in charge of execution, people blame the actors for the poor performances in the Prequels, but Lucas wrote those lines, Lucas intentionally wanted those scenes to play out exactly the way they did, just watching some behind the scenes footage shows he changed perfectly decent performances into god awful B movie lines.
Im not being malicious about anything, Im saying he shouldn't be the end all be all source of credibility when he says, Luke is the strongest Jedi in the Universe, or Sidious was the strongest Sith; Im not being malicious, you feel Im threatening his credibility and your being defensive about it
Plus, I wont make excuses for his mistakes either
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"Your father would've wanted you to have this when you were old enough...."
I think that's the quote, if that is the case there is no inconsistency.
Obi-Wan: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did.
Source
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/quotes
On that note, Obi Wan said 1000 generations the Jedi Knights have been the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.
Palpatine said in the prequels, I will not allow this Republic that stood for a 1000 years be split in two.....
1000 generations or 1000 years....? Suppose you'll make an excuse for that too?
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But the consistencies make the so-called inconsistencies in-valid, please actually think about this for a second, he used one-off situational scenes to back up his argument, but he completely ignored the many other scenes that invalidates the ones he used.
Like, "What I told you was true, from a certain Point of View"? Like Leia remembering her mother before she died? In child birth? But I suppose you can make an excuse for Lucas there too.... that she used the "Force" to be able to remember her mother. And dont say she was talking about her stepmother, a thread was made before with someone submitting from segments of the novel that she meant her Real Mother not her Step Mother.
When you can use "The Force" or "Obi Wan could have lied to protect Luke" is just a cop out to defend Lucas when you know, and I know...... Lucas had no idea he was being inconsistent,
he didn't have the thought before hand, "Oh, I'll intentionally say this happened, and have Obi Wan say something else happened, but oh, he was just lying to protect Luke."
I truly doubt he had that interpretation in mind when making the movies or he would have Qui Gon's force ghost learning ability be a mystery and interpreted by the audience or in the literature on how Obi Wan learned that skill themselves rather than trying to neatly tie everything together
It's obvious Lucas was trying very hard to tie everything neatly together, and going through it with a fine toothed comb, it's obvious he failed, unless ofcourse you try to make excuses for him
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I think there may be a word missing in the quote, either that or Obi Wan was speaking from his knowledge on the man Anakin had been.
Probably, was just remembering off the top of my head, but the point is clear and quote is close enough not to change the meaning
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Yes and about nine tenths of the examples he used also had other scenes that back up Obi-Wan's exact statements, in-fact more of them, he merely used the scenes that worked for his argument, go and watch the film properly before you source an obviously bad attempt at insulting Lucas.
Well, yea, the point was pointing out the inconsistencies, not the consistencies, the basis of which would support His argument and the point of his video. Why would he point out the consistencies in a video he made to point out inconsistencies?
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You called ME a fanboy, basically, without all of your attempts to cover it up, that was the point of that last part, everytime you bring that kind of argument up, you lose all credibility from your original argument.
Also, we aren't making excuses, we are just actually thinking about it instead of instantly calling it out, by your logic, every single piece of literature, film, etc... should be so literal and indepth that everything about it is explained in full detail, because basically the audience is too stupid to think about it for themselves, although I am beginning to see your point.
In a proper film, they shouldn't have to read a book to figure out what the director intended for the scene
besides, my credibility isn't in question, I wasn't even the one who threw out the fanboy term to begin with, it was you; so... I don't know who your accusing of losing credibility
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Ever thought that maybe Obi-Wan would've realised that ANAKIN might have given his lightsaber to his son after he had finished the Jedi trials and became a full apprentice?
See, that's called thinking about a character's own thoughts instead of shouting 'inconsistency!'.
But hey, continue with what is basically a 'U R Fanboi' strawmen argument, really making your argument look credible and able to stand on it's own two feet.
It's inconsistent since You, have to make excuses.... lol, Im not a fanboy, it's quite obvious you are since you can't see any of the inconsistencies yourself... beside, fanboys call other ppl fanboys when they find their icon is being threatened
also my argument has sources... yours is, "oh well, Obi Wan could have been lying," "Greedo may have shot first... and I remembered it wrong"... keep telling yourself that
And I only stated one inconsistency the editor shown in the video, he had several examples; but if you plan to make excuses for each one of them to defend Lucas' credibility, that's fine, I can feel sorry for you, I can empathize, it's okay... it's alright
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I don't quite see how that's a "failing" per se. To me, that was just Obi-Wan trying to protect Luke from the truth about his father.
Exactly my point... just keep making excuses for Lucas' incompetence
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He took situational scenes to try and back up his claim and left out all the ones showing he was wrong, very simply and easily seen through, Obi-Wan was right, when you actually bring up the PT scenes that back up his statements.
And LOL at him using Vader scenes to claim Obi-Wan was lying about ANAKIN.
"Your father wanted you to have this when your old enough, but your Uncle wouldn't allow it, worried that you might follow old Obi Wan on some foolish idealistic crusade like your father did. it's your father's lightsaber."
Anakin was burned alive, and Obi Wan swiped his lightsaber. Anakin didn't even know his children or Padme were still alive... so how did Anakin Want, Luke to have it when he was old enough? Which is one of the many points the editor of the video I posted was trying to make clear.
But ppl like yourself are already predetermined and feel Lucas can do no wrong, so, why are you even arguing the point? That you would make excuses for all of Lucas' failings instead of wising up?
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Yes I did, the uploader took scenes that did work in his favour and then ignored all the rest of them, It's a poorly done knock off of the PT, nothing more, and the fact you have based that as your source is rather shameful to say the least.
Think the point was to show ALL the inconsistencies, not point out the consistencies; re-evaluate yourself
This video shows, Lucas is not at all a credible source if he cant even keep the consistencies up in his own films
why is it shameful? because it proves inconsistencies that your fandom has trouble comprehending the possibility that Lucas isn't a good source of credibility even on his own films?
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Did you even watch the films? Obi-Wan outright states it was all his point of view.
You didn't watch the video, watch it, dont just glance over it and judge prematurely; oh btw, your insulting, ofcourse I watched the films, and there is a difference between point of few and inconsistency;
lol, did I watch the film, what a rude creature you are
It's taken directly from clips from the film... how can he get it incorrect?
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When somebody asks the question the OP is asking I see it in these four ways..
1. GL contradicted himself, Yoda answered our question in ESB but georgie forgot about that scene so he said the dark was stronger.
2. Yoda was lying..
3. GL meant that the dark side was more powerful in that specific situation (getting more powerful in a shorter time to save your wife from childbirth). Meaning that the light/dark are still equal.
4. GL's word is final and it doesn't matter what anything else says, He has the ultimate say.
I usually go by number 4, But I'm a little torn about this particular question.
I hate that when ppl say George Lucas' word is final since the man's credibility is tied to him constantly changing the films and only cares about the bottomline, money, he doesn't care about the lore, if he did, the prequels wouldn't have so many inconsistencies to the OT. For instance, if you go by the prequels Obi Wan lied to Luke all throughout New Hope then..... watch this video, these inconsistencies come out as if Obi Wan in ANH was a compulsive liar... So you have a choice, trust Lucas that he gives two craps about the Lore he himself set up and believe Obi Wan was simply a compulsive liar, or don't believe Lucas- and that he doesn't care at all about Star Wars except for the bottomline, money
just watch this vid, someone who can't even keep the consistency of films he himself set up.... shouldn't be taken as a credible source
Need a Place to Vent- Mass Effect 3 Sucks right now
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