Ruei
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Posts posted by Ruei
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I approve of this SO HARD.
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OMG this is SO MUCH BETTER.
YUS.
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I can imagine more people being offended by men wearing a bikini than the super sensitive ones who hate that a game goes by social standards.
So, no, its not a simple fix. Its a stupid one.
Calling someone super sensitive for pointing something out is a little much, don't you think? Nothing stops you from running to a store, buying and wearing a bikin IRL, why have that restriction in game? That's why it's silly. Likewise, there is literally no difference between "lower robes" and floor length "skirts" yet, for some reason, the "skirts" available in game are restricted to women as well... Which, actually makes even less sense. Finally, the formal attire that's restricted to men is, essentially, a suit. Again, what is to keep a female character from doning this attire, should she feel the desire to? Again, nothing but an arbitrary string of code.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have the right to keep others from the same. It's that simple. Additionally, removing a flag from the game is, at most, a few lines of code and, therefore, simple. I suppose it could be both simple and stupid if you want; the two are not mutually exclusive terms.
Personally, I don't see what's so bad about people enjoying things in different ways so long as no one's being hurt.
C'est la vie, I guess.
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This is a great post. I agree with it 99%. The only part I really think isn't absolutely true is that there are times in real life when you keep rejecting someone and they keep trying their hardest to make you change your mind. However, I think we can resolve this by:
A) introduce shock collars for all characters that we can use and gives us the option to punish them (LOL), or
B) let us run them through with a lightsaber.
No? Too harsh? Okay I'll keep working on that one...
Oh absolutely! My problem is less the case that she keeps throwing herself at my consular and more that it's impossible for me to reject her.
I know most of this stems from flagging something by calling her "more than a padawan" - which, she was, to my consular, more like a little sister than a padawan and I wanted to recognize that. Of course, after the fact I realized what this did and attempted to rectify it in the next two conversations, which seemed to work, but then, suddenly, her third(?) conversation after that was basically rigged so that of MY three final choices, initiating a kiss is ALWAYS what happens. And I was just sitting there like ".... what?" I've seen clips of characters much farther along in other romances that STILL had options to wriggle their way out and I wouldn't even consider the dialogue I chose up until this point to be romantic. I was basically like "oh... that's nice... HERE HAVE A BOOK" or "um... I appreciate the affection but NO MEANS NO" and if Nadia had been the one, in this particular scene, to initiate the kiss - that's one thing. That's her character (at the moment). She's emotional. She's been through a lot. I understand that. But no. It's MY character seemingly initiating something I want no part in and have routinely attempted to step away from via dialogue options.
It's just like "... but why tho?"
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Exactly Ruei, and I myself responded to at least one of your posts in a frustrated manner that really was only meant because I had assumed that you were defending the tone of the OP. Now that you've made it clear that you don't support her antagonism I'd like to apologise for responding the way that I did.
It's a shame people like her have to commit wanton arson in an already flammable public issue, purely for their own amusement, when two people like ourselves could have enjoyed a civil discussion on the subject in another place or time. There's really no need for it, and the baiting that she used to draw hostility from men could easily create a bad impression of men in general, which only serves to perpetuate the cycle.
Yeah, I kind of figured people were associating me with her after some of the other responses I got.
Thankfully, most everyone still managed to keep a cool head in spite of the poking. Probably doesn't help to have the same avatar, heh. I think I'll go find another one
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You basically confirm here beyond any shadow of a doubt that you were trolling from the start. If you were unaware of the term "trolling" or what is involved in posting a "troll thread" then Google will be more than willing to explain it.
At this point you've probably not only caused a collective facepalm among men but (I'd hope) also amongst the women who actually came in here to defend you, because they thought you were serious and not just trying to troll men by blatantly attacking them and then waiting to sit back and proclaim victory when they get mad at such an attack.
Ever wondered why men respond defensively to threads like these, or conversations about male chauvinism in general? It's because all too often they come from highly antagonistic and unpleasant individuals like yourself who just want to cause a fight and/or make things even worse.
^^^^^^^
This. Everything about that opening post is a large part of what I'd rather not be associated with - and all you have to do is read through the thread to see how it affected peoples' replies to me, who originally posted something that was rather against the execution of the original post.
Not backing down is one thing. Exposing harsh truths is one thing. Pointing out uncomfortable notions and saying "you can't just push this aside!" can even be honorable.... but being intentionally antagonistic is just going to negatively affect whatever topic or truth it is you so want "discussed" and any possible solution for it.
In other words: stop it. If you're seriously trying to come off as "this was an experiment, WELL DONE, LOVELIES" then you obviously have no concept of basic human decency and certainly no respect for your fellow human beings. If you want to discuss, then prompt and discuss. Don't go baiting for vitriol.
Not enough facepalm.jpg for this.
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Women aren't the only ones that are being sexually objectified. How about all the male companions with rock hard abs? How many of the male companions are balding? For almost every video game character with huge cans there's a Kratos, Nathan Drake, or Corso Riggs that I could point out. Social norms and sexually objectifying people goes both ways. I won't argue that the scales are even because that's simply not true, but it does exist. We can both agree that I'd be nitpicking and most would probably say that it's ridiculous, but it's there and I digress.
And to your point, how many times have you seen a man in a bikini? Maybe a speedo, but it's not a set nor is it cut like a bikini is (cut/styled for a woman's figure). I'm of the opinion that neither "outfit" should exist. There's really no reason for them to be there. I really don't agree with it at all. I think women wearing bikinis is one of the "social norms" that continues this societal sexism that you've been talking about. Strictly speaking, a bikini set is a highly ineffective set of clothing. It's designed to show off all your goods.
The censoring is a strange thing. Did you know that "bug gers" without the space is censored in-game? What's that about?
I've seen this discussion a million times in comics - women bringing up sexual objectification and the retort of "well, men are always muscular and in such good shape, etc.... etc... So it's not like they're the only ones." That's a male power fantasy, not a male sexual objectification. Here's some links, if you'd like to read up on this:
Good Comics Article On Female Sexual Objectification
The Border House: "To dudes who think gaming is “sexist against men”: YOU’RE WRONG."
These writers are far more in depth and articulate on the topic and it's something that extends far beyond the range of comics into most everything we consume as entertainment. I hope you and others in this thread, will enjoy the reading.
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Its about as sexist as saying that girls often where different clothes than guys. But beyond that in the realm of any amount that could reasonably qualify as offending...
No, it is not.
If someone is offended by it, then it is, by definition, offensive. Is it AS offensive as other things? No. But it IS a quick and easy fix and I think it should be considered. That's all I'm saying.
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WALL OF TEXT BEHIND SPOILERS.
Theres not. Youre correct. But there IS something inherently wrong with FINDING something to be OFFENDED about. If you looked hard enough, you could be offended by EVERY SINGLE BILLBOARD in your city - but ARE you? Really? If you are OFFENDED by male characters not being able to wear bikini's - then you are FINDING something to be OFFENDED with. You are ACTIVELY MAKING EFFORT to FIND something to be offended about. And THAT is wrong.
Youre correct - but there are correct AVENUES to go down. Starting up a thread in the forums demanding equality and shouting that there is blatant sexism in the game, is like going outside to a college campus with a megaphone yelling at everyone. A lot of people agree with you, but dont wanna be yelled at in the process.
When did I say this? You just seem to be getting up in arms because 'women are sexualized too much in SWTOR' - even so far as claim that the use of 'nip.ples' is sexualizing women when in reality, they censor the word on the forums to avoid LAWSUITS and people being OFFENDED. Thats a proactive defense against OVER ZEALOUS people.
Actually, it means they are actively putting the right foot forward and fixing things - what more do you want. WE WANT CHANGE AND WE WANT IT NOW! NEXT PATCH OR I UNSUB!! Thats the kind of mob mentality that just ruins the cause. Once again though - SWTOR needs more fixes before the 'sexual equality' stuff would even cross my mind.
I havent pushed ANYONES views aside - Im actually asking YOU to consider the OTHER side of it. How OFFENDED are you really? I mean, REALLY. Is this something you REALLY feel BW should change NEXT PATCH? Is this a GAME BREAKING deal? Are you so affected that PLAYING hurts you and makes you feel disgusted because you cant see male characters running around in bikinis? Once again, there is a point where you MIGHT be taking it TOO far.
My entire argument has been very simply 'Why are you getting your jimmies rustled over something SMALL' - because it IS small. Male characters not wearing bikinis is SMALL. Even my characters not being able to engage in homosexual relationships IS SMALL. These are, whereas yes, things I would love to see in a great game, TINY in comparison to say, the bug fixes for the launcher, the CONSTANT fps drops in high population areas, the crappy graphics having to be altered by forcing certain functions, etc etc. There are a BILLION THINGS that must be done to this game to get it STABLE, much less try and please very individual that came onto the forum saying 'hey I want _____ in game! DO IT! DO IT NOOOOOWWWW OR I UNSUB'
Is it really? I mean, really? How is it that hundreds of other women that play video games are NOT offended by this? Are they just ignorant to the plight of female gamers? Are they just SO DESENSITIZED to video games now that seeing Leia in Return of the Jedi sporting that golden bikini that they go 'that looks nice' instead of 'OMG SHE IS BEING SEXUALIZED IN A WAY I DONT LIKE!'. My girlfriend doesnt seem to have a problem with ANY of the female stuff in SWTOR and yet youre saying that she SHOULD??? Should I then be upset that my male bounty Hunter is RIPPED and has a HUGE chest, when, I, in fact, am skinny?? Man, if I got offended every time I saw an male underwear model looking ripped and huge, I would have my jimmies in ALL sorts of bunches EVERY DAY.
My honest to god recommendation for you is this : compile a list of things you THINK are overly sexualized towards women, and put it into an all-inclusive thread and see how many people come to the forum and agree with you.
THEN. Then see how those changes balance out against the bug fixes, the stability problems, the computer issues, the server population problems, and all of the other GAME BREAKING THINGS that fit in there. And when you do that, and you see that the stuff you want, WHEREAS GOOD IN NATURE, are things that are LUXURIES, you might get an idea of where you need to be.
Obviously Big Daddy BW is working on stuff day in and day out to please people. You really should acknowledge that.
Again, keeping this short. You seem to be taking this a lot harder than I am. I merely suggested they remove the needless gender flag for clothes. I think you might me confusing me with the OP, as well, so just for clarification's sake; I'm the one who posted after the fact, in response to the OP that her rant wasn't a suggestion and used the bikini issue as an example of one.
I never once freaked out, or threatened, or really did anything other than say "it's ridiculous, please remove it."
You are blowing this waaaaay out of proportion. I never said, nor even implied there weren't other problems (especially technical) with the game that needed addressing as well or beforehand. In fact, if you looked at my posting history, you'd see that I've even posted on that as well. I pointed out two things, as suggestions, that I would like changed because I found them needlessly limiting. Not even really all that offensive (I believe you first brought that term into play, even), but because I literally had a moment of "the heck?" while playing when I encountered them. That is what a suggestions forum is for. Just because you don't have a problem with it, or it's at a different position of priority in your life, doesn't change it's validity as a suggestion.
On a side note: please stop assuming to know the opinions of people not involved in this conversation. If people haven't spoken up on a topic, it doesn't automatically mean they agree with whatever form what was being debated currently exists in. That logic would thereafter imply that I agreed with it for months before ever posted a commentary on it, which, obviously, is wrong.
At this point, we aren't even pretending to debate the suggestion itself and, therefore, I take my leave to actually go play the game. Shocker, I know, but I am capable of acknowledging deficiencies while still enjoying the product.
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This line ALONE shows that they are actively changing and altering content to fit the needs of their customer base - something Im happy they are working towards - but that DOES NOT MEAN they should have to change EVERYTHING because SOMEONE finds something OFFENSIVE about it.
I think you might be finding 'offense' in something just to find offense to it. Just like people who complain that there arent any of ______ in a video game, and therefore, its racist/colorist/alienist/etc. Theres a point where 'offensive' and 'nitpicking' meet.
I absolutely LOVE it when people bring up this point. Heres my retort.
Just because I agree with what youre going for, DOES NOT MEAN, I agree with the way you are presenting it, OR agree that it should be addressed and changed.
FOR INSTANCE - Im all for equal rights of color/race/whateverhaveyou, but some 'groups' go about their cry for equality the wrong way, or demand changes that would encroach on others.
I may AGREE with you, but I definitely dont feel this is an issue that should be fixed immediately or even remotely close to soon. There are a number of things this game needs to fix BEFORE it even BEGINS to come CLOSE to the 'APPARENTLY BLATANT SEXISM' thats in it.
Once again, just because I agree with you, DOES NOT MEAN, I agree with your demands. This supposed 'easy fix' youre asking is a bit harder than flipping a toggle switch that says 'this item can only be equipped by [x]females [ ] males'. Oh lemee just add the X here and BAM. Nope. Not the way it works.
Sexism is NOT a social norm, and I dont think people understand that. By bringing up these, honestly, what are nitpicking ideas of what SHOULD be changed, youre forcing the idea to come to light that things are not equal.
Having males not be able to wear a particular in game item is not offensive in any way shape or form UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TO BE OFFENDED BY IT. I honestly dont care what my in game character looks like (and yes, my main is a female sith jugg), but does that make me UNSYMPATHETIC to your ideals? Nope.
I get the conversation thing - I totally do. Hell, when I first started playing, I nearly fell in LOVE with Vette as a character and wished my Sith Jugg could engage in a romantic relationship with her. She cant because, well, there are no homosexual romances yet in SWTOR. Am I OFFENDED???? Not one bit because I know the limitations of a MMO and what CAN and CANNOT be pushed into existence. Now, the wonderful thing here is that BW came out and said 'we are working towards that' - which is AWESOME. It means they are listening.
But dont expect every little thing that peeves you about a female in game character model or the clothes they wear to be changed simply because 'it offends' you. If you are so EASILY offended by this - I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope you dont watch TV, or play other video games.
... Wow.
Okay. There's so much going on here I'm not even sure where to start, to be completely honest with you. I'm just going to bullet this out.
- There's nothing inherently wrong with being offended by something
- There's no "right way" to go about demanding equality
- I'm not being angry or aggressive although I'm irritated that you keep implying I'm somehow incapable of controlling my emotions because I brought up something that we disagree on
- Just because Bioware is changing one thing does not mean they are exempt from criticism
- The technical difficulties argument RE gendered clothing was blown out of the water a couple posts up
- When someone of the affected group claims offense to something at least consider their opinion instead of completely pushing it aside
- Even though you claim this isn't the case, you've built your entire argument around "*I* didn't get *offended* so why should you?"
- ALL video games and television is like this, thus why it CANNOT be ignored. Thus why it is a social NORM. It is the default. The "normal". Thus why it needs to be addressed.
In short: if you don't have a problem with what I'm suggesting, then why are you arguing it? If you disagree with civil discourse over a problem, then what is your preferred course of action? Because right now it really sounds like "sit down and shut up." This, again, does not solve nor improve anything.
- There's nothing inherently wrong with being offended by something
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Funnily enough, when the slave attires (and other social clothes) were introduced to beta, both genders could buy and equip all of it regardless of gender. But they very quickly changed it so dresses and the slave outfits were female only, and the Dromund Kaas formal outfit would be male only. And to this day I'm not sure why, particularly the latter was a bit baffling.
You know, I never noticed that, but it's a very good insight! Thank you for your input
Sheds new light on the "technical difficulties" defense that was, admittedly, shaky to begin with. -
I think its reasonable to make stuff like bikinis female only.
They could of, but it isn't sexist or any of the stupid things this thread suggests in any regard to not
It's not purposefully sexist, no. I don't believe they honestly made the decision that they'd only produce the model for women because clearly they're the only gender that needs to be sexually objectified
Saying it's not sexist at all is going a bit far, though. It's another one of those sneaky social norms that often times people aren't even aware is sexist or rooted in sexism. "Why would a guy need a bikini top anyway? Can't they just go topless?" Well, yes, they can. Because their bodies have not been sexuallized to the point that their ******s are considered obscene.
... wow. Thanks forum for completely proving my point? Apparently mentioning the body part at the tip of a woman's mammary glands that is circled by an areola needs to be censored like a swear word.
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Or they could just be sticking by social norms, which, honestly, would be the easiest way to NOT get sued by someone getting 'offended' because their male character has a speedo on and it is a 'bit too revealing'.
I think you gals are looking WAYYYY too far into this. Just because something isnt 'all-inclusive' to ALL genders/races/colors/etc DOES NOT MEAN its OFFENSIVE to those people.
And I think you're not looking far enough.
Social norms need to be changed. They will not be changed if they are not challenged. This is one form of challenging them. Bioware's a big company. It and EA can take care of themselves just like they have with regards to adding in homosexual relationship content. I expect them to be able to take some criticism. This is one of it. There's absolutely no reason my guy can't wear a "skirt" when he can wear something that looks almost exactly the same under the separate term "lower robes". It's just silly.Likewise, I think I know what I find offensive and what I don't, thanks.
Just because my guy characters cant wear a dress does not mean I should jump up and go to war over it. It IS a video game, and you have to understand that if they HAD to include EVERYTHING to make EVERYONE happy - you would NEVER have a game to play in the first place.You want equality of in-game models/gear/appearance? Im totally for it.
You want males running around in speedos because 'female characters have the option, why shouldnt males?' - that seems a bit petty and overboard.
I'm going to go out on a limb and call this "I'm okay with it, so you should be too". That's not true. You're okay with it because your interests are served. You seem think that because you would be okay with equality that it somehow makes it okay for you to turn around and chastise people actually demanding such equality. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think? If you're "totally for it" then shouldn't you be "for" my suggestions?
Saying I'm starting a war over simply suggesting a significantly easy fix to perceived/actual inequality issues doesn't exactly position you in the "ally" camp well at all. If you're for gender equality, then be for it. Telling people to relax and not get so upset over things just as bad as people that perpetrate the insult to begin with.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks the male crew members on Star Trek TNG seasons 1-2 wearing the 'skirt' uniform was a good idea.Im all for equality and less 'sexism' in video games - but a lot of what people consider 'sexist' is, in reality 'social norms' and should in no way be reconstructed because SOMEONE or SOME GROUP is unhappy. Like I said, you cant please EVERYONE, or youd NEVER STOP PLEASING.
Sexism is a social norm. It needs to be deconstructed. Please understand that this entire post just reeks of apologism. Do you understand why that is? I understand that you seem to agree theoretically with me, but everything you've said after that agreement has been written to excuse things for being the way they are and dismiss the need for change. That is no longer agreeing. That's silencing.
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Addressing this because it seems like you missed something big. Some of the female and men only stuff are that because the models of the design and such really only apply correctly to each gender. Like the bikini type clothing for the female only: It's shape make its only really reasonable for the gender.
From what I've seen. These are rare, and the only time I;ve ever seen gender exclusivity is when this applies.
Just like they can adapt the models of coats, skirts, pants, boots, etc... to the other characters, so too could they have adjusted the bikini model. It just takes a tiny bit of extra work. It seems like they made it thinking only women would wever want to wear any of it so "why bother"? Well, they're wrong, that's why
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Just to get this out of the way:
- I am a woman
- Sexism sucks
- Sexism should be addressed
- Telling someone who is offended to "chill out" or "it's just a game" is not going to solve the issue At. All.
That having been said - yes, there is an inherent lean in preferences towards straight male gamers. HOWEVER, I take more offense to being told what I think by some ill-conceived feminist outburst than by dancing cantina girls. Yes. Really. Why? Because dancing cantina girls, poorly realized romances and skimpy clothes are, most often, internalized misogyny. It is so overwhelming culturally that I find it highly unlikely that any of the writers intentionally went in thinking "all people like xyz and all people are straight males." But categorically assigning thoughts, preferences and kinks to entire swaths of the population at large and using all of the above to shame people into conforming to what you personally want is an active, brutal affront that, in all honesty, someone who views themselves as a feminist should have known to avoid.
Are there messed up romances? Absolutely. My male consular can't get Nadia to stop humping his leg. In fact, I have not progressed her personal quests because there is literally no option to correct her view on your relationship and/or even just end the current quest/conversation I'm on with anything other than a kiss. This is something that should be corrected.
Now, if this option was there and it caused negative points - THE OPTION IS STILL THERE AND IT IS LEGITIMATE. Generally, if someone's trying to get in your pants and you turn them down, they'll be at least a little upset. This is called making character interactions believable. This should NOT be changed.
Re Skimpy Clothing: Bioware is actually doing a better job of this than I've seen in a while, to be quite honest. Yes, it could still use some work. As someone else already mentioned, they are already adding in male dancer outfits... personally I'm more irritated by the gendering of the clothing than by the skimpiness of it. Some people wear skimpy clothes. That's fine. However, telling people what they can and cannot equip based on the sex of the character they chose is kind of silly, honestly. Even WoW lets guys run around in Valentine's Day Dresses if they want. It's not pretty, but that's life. *shrug* So it's not so much a skimpy clothing issue as it is a "why the frag can't my guy throw on a skirt especially when he's already running around in 'lower robes?'"
So, putting these items into a suggestion would read closer to this:
"There doesn't seem to be an option to clarify misconceptions of relationships especially re: Nadia and the male consular when, up until this point, I have chosen everything I can to nicely steer the conversation elsewhere and really not encouraged this behavior at all. I have not experienced this problem with other characters, but suggest you look into it elsewhere as well. Even if the option results in negative points, the fact that it would be present at all is a massive improvement and would allow me to comfortably finish her storyline."
and
"I've noticed some clothing in game requires a male or female character. I find this a bit ridiculous, to be entirely honest and think you should strip this requirement from the clothing. Let people wear what they want. If I, as a woman, can where pants as often as skirts, and my male jedi can wear robes as often as pants, what's the difference between me wearing a tux and my jedi wearing a skirt? Nothing, that's what. This should be removed - I'm not even sure why it was there to begin with."
That's the difference between constructively suggesting something and ranting angrily. Please take it into consideration.
- I am a woman
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I think I might be in shock...
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Had to undo all of this for the last patch, so it's great to see a resource on hand in case I need to rebuild it!
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Wow, that's... actually kind of beautiful. *tear*
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This specific challenge is one that is over come by knowledge. Knowing your class, knowing the encounter and expecting when/where others will take damage, and knowing mechanics of the fight itself. Not buy having a fancy UI/mouseover.
That's the point. Whether or not you have two clicks or one, the challenge of healing doesn't actually have anything to do with the actual clicking. It's with knowing who and what to click.
For similar reasons, I'd also like to see operations frames color coded. Particularly when I'm in random groups/PvP I don't know who these people are or what class they are just by looking at their health bar. I need to be able to tell that JoeBoyKinobi is a trooper and JaneGirlShan is a smuggler before I can make the decision of which to heal first; one's definitely going to last longer under constant damage!
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You can choose, in options, to not display your legacy name for the case of your trooper specifically.
Otherwise, yeah, I think that screen will keep popping up until you add a name. Personally, I recommend thinking about all the different names you think you'll use and find something that goes well with those. Even if you don't end up using them, you'll more than likely come up with a last name that works with something else you like, or you can just not show it.
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Got my CE from Walmart on the 23rd.
Now they're trying to charge me (again) - they sent me an email asking for delivery confirmation so they could charge me... even though they authorized the funds out of my Paypal on the 15th? ... Yeah. Calling Paypal first.
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Walmart now attempting to charge me again Just a heads up - I'm calling Paypal first to make sure they don't.
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Thanks. Glad to hear you got yours too!
It actually came a few hours ago - IDK what caused it but somehow the shipping that was impossible to change was upgraded to overnight without charging me.
About. Damn. Time. Good luck with everyone else still waiting on theirs! Hopefully this is a good sign of things to come for you!
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SWEET FACKING GOD IT SHIPPED.
Things I did not expect to happen 2k11
Sheds new light on the "technical difficulties" defense that was, admittedly, shaky to begin with. 
Easy solution to skimpy gear equality
in Suggestion Box
Posted
So much THIS.
Hire the OP.