Attaraxia
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Posts posted by Attaraxia
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Strictly PvP?
in PvP
me. i resubbed just to pvp. i needed something close to LoL, yet not quite the same thing (just for variety's sake) and i'm loving it. i get my money from slicing -
Hi.
http://www.gamerdna.com/uimage/9znoRaz/full/heal-chart.jpg
Follow this quick flowchart to get more healing in MMOs!
-Your [not always] friendly neighborhood healer.
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why.
Every single day.
why?
Don't we have enough threads on this?
That's it. I'm not going to find the link to the math anymore. Someone else do it.
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yes RN sucks. It's the worst AoE heal (tho mercs barely have it better), and it's been discussed to death.
Can we get a link to this post stickied so we don't have to see RN posts every 3 days anymore?
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since KP can be cast on the move, it gets taxed heavily on healing output. It's as simple as that. It's worthwhile in some situations, not so much in others, and its not DESIGNED to save anyone on its own.
KI-SP is your bread and butter, KP is like cinnamon. It's nice when you get to use it effectively, but trying to use it all the time every time is bad for you, and you wouldn't want to eat it on its own.
The biggest factor seems to be that most people get sick of bread and butter pretty quick, and want to mix something else (ANYTHING else) in, even if it's anchovies(RN).
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for pvp healing you want something like this
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MffMzhRRzZ0cZGbbkM.1
or this
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MffMzhRRzZbchZGb0z.1
The basic idea is buff your survivability and mobility as much as you possibly can, since we get no help in those areas. There is a LOT of play room in talents for pvp healing, and movespeed increases like Slip Away and Evasive Imperative are a preference thing compared to straight mitigation/hp talents like Inclement Conditioning and Chem-Resistant Inlays.
In PvP you want to avoid RN, because if you need to save somebody you'll be using KI-SP exclusively, and if you're trying to save yourself, RN just doesn't cut it. The 'any port in a storm' argument is okay, but it'd be hard to sell 100-150hp/s against increased move speed and/or increased hp, which you can't get if you dive all the way to RN.
for PvE, you want something like
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MffbzGoRzZ0cZG.1
You'll notice you have extra points on that last one. put them pretty much wherever you want. You'll rarely use RN, but you may get some benefit out of Accomplished Doctor and want to dump that last point into RN anyway. If you're that high in medicine, there probably isn't anything else to dump 1 point into.
Alternatively, you can go half-lethality and take Combat Stims for a moderate boost in energy regen. Some people go all the way to Lethal Purpose for the cd on Adrenaline Probe, as well. Energy regen is arguably better for us overall, since as gear increases(and with it, alacrity for most people), we're limited by energy(time) more than by any other factor, but that may not always be true, so pick your poison.
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Would I be giving up to much healing if I skipped RN in Medicine & 3% Healing done from concealment to get the Combat stims talent (possible for 10 energy every 20 secs)
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401MffbzGoRzcZZGbbkM.1
I had it all the way to 50 and really miss it. I just havent decided if its worth it to get it back. The only time im really missing that 10 extra energy is after a RN cast...which obviously would no longer be an issue.
Most my focus is pve at this time if that matters.
3% healing done(Survival Training) is an important talent. You'll rarely see anything give you more than a 1% flat increase in output per talent point. You should not give up that talent for anything. 9% healing received also has significant benefit, even in PvE.
Don't take RN. it's even worse than you think it is, and the people who tell you otherwise just haven't done the math on it yet.
Don't take my word for it. Go run the numbers yourself.
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Your Hyperbole makes a good case for why RN should not be used.
Do the math again, this time comparing RN against KI-SP combos. Do it for energy, time(gcd count or seconds, either works), and healing done. Compare across all 3 stats. For the lulz, compare based on button presses, too.
I'd do it for you, but most people trust their own math over others', and you seem competent.
If you're wondering WHY I suggest this... KI-SP "can't"* be cast while moving. KP and RN can. The 'tax' for the mobility on RN and KP is... extreme.
*I realize SP can be cast while moving, but since KI can't, you don't get the full 'movement tax' for the KI-SP combo, and you DO get it for RN or for pure KP w/ SP from procs.
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hay guyz i just crit a heel for 4k naked we're fin in pvp guyz.
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Also, don't forget that you can proc a Tactical Advantage with Shiv for a free Surgical Probe.
This. To get TA in PvP, shiv and KP's proc are your best bet. KInj WILL be interrupted, either by traditional interrupts, stuns, or by CCs. Relying on it for your TA generation is just a risky business. Faking can work, but your only good fake would CONSUME a TA if successful. DS' cast bar goes backwards(channeled), and even an idiot will quickly learn not to waste interrupts on it (especially since it's not going to save anybody).
Also, I can't even count how many times I've faked only to be interrupted anyway even after I've cancelled my cast. This game's interrupt system isn't nearly as tight as, for example, WoW's.
LoS + Snare/Stun is also your friend.
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I may be remembering wrong (been a while since I bothered with RN), but I thought when you cast it, it picked 4 people (or 3 + target) in the 10m range of your target and they got the HoT buff, not that it was 1 person and it was like an "aura" effect that followed that person?
That said, all I did was enough testing to realize it was a terrible ability and haven't bothered with it much since.
Good catch. That's actually how it works, apparently. My source was either incorrect, or was misinformed himself.
When you cast, the game selects 4 people (3 + target) to 'buff' with RN. Those people are then free to move without losing the buff (tested), and without re-placing the buff.
Unfortunately, this really doesn't change anything for me. It's still the same healing per person as an SP, or ~60% of a KInj, or ~2.3 ticks of a KP (non-crit). Effectively, it remains useless... and I'm going right now to spec back out of it.
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I think that Hardmode Flashpoints are the only time in your career where RN might be of use, hence the preface, and it is cost effective, not for HPS but for HPE or HPGCD, hence cost-effective.
The heal is roughly equivalent to a Kolto Probe on multiple targets, if you have the set-piece bonus it is more cost effective than KP purely for healing (KP, however does generate TA).
Comparing HPS it is craptastic compared to our bread and butter.
With 2 targets, RN exceeds KI in HPE & HPGCD.
With 2 targets, RN even exceeds the HPGCD of KI+SP
HM FP = 4 players
In a HM FP, RN also makes trash pulls go a lot faster. You may have experience a PUG where the group wants to keep churning through trash like a compactor and rarely pause to heal up. This is more prevalent with 1 or more Sith Warriors.
RN + KP on the tank can cover most of the trash pulls in HM FPs. This is probably more of a factor of the Hardmode Flashpoints not being exceedingly hard.
I don't even know where to start.
RN does NOT exceed KI-SP until 3 targets are effected. Even then, due to the nature of RN(see my previous post), one KI-SP CAN out-heal the RN on 4 players. Since KI-SP costs less energy, this means that KI-SP is more hp/e at 1 target, 2 targets, and sometimes at 3-4 targets as well. In short, you're completely and totally wrong.
As far as healing/gcd, you are correct. However, RN requires 10 GCDs to tick to full potential. During that time, every RN tick may or may not fall on a player who doesn't need healing, either due to RN itself not being targeted, due to people moving out of range, or due to someone (maybe even you) healing the people effected by RN. This, by default, makes KI-SP vastly superior, since it can be targeted on those who need it most.
In an ideal world, RN has uses. In practice, RN is a great way to waste your energy and simultaneously risk the regen black hole. Don't take my word for it though, run the numbers yourself. Or don't. It won't make me lose sleep.
As for hardmode flashpoints... you're kidding, right? Last time I ran a hm fp, I pulled the instance myself and dps'd the whole time. My "healing" consisted of kp on the tank and on anyone who beat me to pulling the next mob. We did it with stuns and a geared, competent tank. It was simple.
If that's the kind of situation where you would use RN for "more speed", even when the math says that KP(not even KI-SP. Just KP) spam is significantly higher hp/s on 4 targets, grants TA for even more healing (still entirely on the move), and leaves you with the flexibility of NOT refreshing it on 2 people who don't need it just to refresh on two people that DO, not to mention removing the range restriction of RN (you really think 4 people running a flashpoint will hug 10m range of one guy the entire time?), then power to ya.
However, I strongly suggest that nobody follow your example. RN is not worth it.
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If you are running Hard Mode Flashpoints, RN is actually very cost effective healing. If you have 2+ melee it really shines giving you considerably more breathing room.
RN loses its lustre quite rapidly in Operations though.
You seriously think so?
RN on 2 targets = roughly 1555x2(my gear-level numbers) healing over 15 seconds = 207.3hp/s
It takes 4.3 seconds to regenerate the cost of RN at max regen. (my gear, the set bonus (-4 cost) and stim boost up the entire time)
KI-SP = 2511 + 1056 (again, my gear-level numbers) in 3.22 seconds(1.72KI + 1GCD) = ~1107hp/s. If you had 0 alacrity, it would be 2 + 1.5 = 3.5seconds = 1019hp/s, and you would stay energy-neutral(which is the real benefit of not using RN)
So not only is KI-SP ~5x better than RN(on 2 targets) in hp/s, but in the 4.3 seconds you now need to spend on regen due to casting RN, you gave up 1.33 KI-SP combos worth of cast time, and 1.04 KI-SP combos worth of energy. In that TIME, you could have healed for 4763. With that Energy, you could have healed for 3430. Both are more than the total healing of RN on two targets, and you could have done it within 5 seconds, instead of waiting 15.
In fact, the only conceivable time when RN is actually worthwhile would be if everyone were taking damage faster than KI-SP could cope, and RN would be enough to save them. Since this theoretical time doesn't actually exist (if KI-SP's dramatically higher hp/s cannot overcome the incoming damage, RN can't overcome it either), there is no time when RN is the right choice to save a life.
And that's before counting in the fact that RN has no internal targeting logic. Currently, it just heals whoever is in range (and that range being only 10m is another large problem when compared to KI-SP's 30). Meaning that if 4 people need it, and you cast it on them while they are in a group of 8 people, RN may very well heal the 4 who DON'T need it.
In short, don't use RN. Ever, really. It's a very very bad top-tier talent.
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I have not looked into it. By a KP cycle, do you just mean the 18s duration of KP?
You get 6 ticks from an 18s KP, and a 30% proc chance means an average of 1.8 TA procs per KP cast.
The first time KP and KI/SP combos align is at 126seconds, which is 18*7, and also 3.5*36.
So you have KI*36 + SP*36 compared to KP*7 + SP*12.6
KI heals for 963 + 2.72*bonusHealing (BH)
SP heals for 482 + 1.37*BH
KP heals for 119 + 0.336*BH, and heals 6 times.
Assuming BH = 410, that leads to KI = 2078, SP = 1043.7, and KP = 1540.
KI/SP = 891 HPS
KP(18s) + 1.8SP = 189.92 HPS
(891-189)/891 = 78.6%...
If you roll two stacks of KP, it is 69% less HPS.
So yes, it looks like you may be right.
I did mean over the 18s cycle, yes, but the multiple-based calculation is better.
I don't feel too great about knowing that half of my healing moves (3/5 if you don't count KInf) heal for about a quarter of what I can heal for while standing still just because I COULD cast them while moving. Also, if moving means a ~75% healing reduction... then mobility isn't really much of an advantage.
Thank you for taking the time to do the math.
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I have a couple questions about pvp gear.
1) Is alacrity a good stat for healing?
No. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=309664
2)which pvp set do i get? i am currently using a medic/lethality hybrid spec. Is the alacrity set good? the set bonus is useless as i do not have the final med talent that the bonus applies to.Alacrity sucks as stated above, but you can run the medic set and swap your enhancements for crit/power/surge as you prefer. Set bonuses... kinda suck no matter what. Pick what gives you the most hp/expertise and then gear from there. This changes if you're DPS, they have other needs.
3) if i were to switch to a pure concealment spec (unsure what spec i will end up with as i am still trying to see which i like more before i commit to a set bonus) what set would i want?Enforcer's is the DPS operative set. You could wear the Field Tech's if you want (it looks MUCH better), but the set bonuses won't help you.
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I have been PvP-ing as Operative since the launch and tried every possible (viable) spec out there and the one I enjoy the most is (believe it or not) the healing spec.
Most of the issues (not all) with Operative healing are mainly PvE concerns, instead of putting your op/smug on ice while waiting for 1.2, go out there and do some pvp!
I had been happily oblivious to the healing situation until I started to read this forum so enjoy this PvP-movie I put together to show some of the potential that healing operatives have!
In a flash I also uploaded a few post-match scoreboards, I have to point out that I have not cherrypicked these out of hundreds of matches, these 3 screens were picked from 5 matches I played tonight, 0 deaths is not uncommon at all.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/50903179.jpg/
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
There are certainly a lot of PvE concerns when it comes to the operative, but that doesn't mean there are no PvP concerns. There are quite a few, in fact. Enough that I'm still going to put my operative 'on ice'.
And I believe you really didn't cherry-pick these matches. Let's just get that out of the way now.
Perhaps it was my own fault, but in choosing a simple, easy-to-remember name, I've marked myself in ways you clearly haven't yet. When I go into a warzone, people see my name and remember that I'm a healer, and they remember that if I'm left alone, I can significantly effect the outcome of any fight. They also remember (or maybe 'know') that there is precious little I can do if I'm under [constant] pressure, either to save myself, or to save any team members.
In the first few minutes of the video, with you healing... you really didn't experience any pressure at all. You were harassed for brief periods by inept players that didn't interrupt, stun, or CC you. I don't think anyone is going to argue that operatives left to turret-heal are somehow ineffective at keeping people alive. The issues we have trouble with are a lack of survivability options, and general squishiness.
Personally, if I spend more than a minute without at least 1 person trying to kill me while SPAMMING their interrupt on any cast-heal I try, I know I'm against a rookie team. Seeing that in your video makes me think you were against rookie teams, and makes me wish you HAD cherrypicked harder fights to showcase.
I don't want to comment on the KP-Lacerate build... but I have to say it strikes me as terrible. Burning your TA on lacerate can't possibly be a good thing unless you're being ignored, and if you're that deep in the medic tree you're probably not going to contribute enough dps to make the losses in regen/healing worth it. I have to try it out though. Maybe it works.
Some good advice, and generally not bad... but I don't think PvP as it stands now is any cause for 'hope'.
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So apparently the tax for mobility is set at 77%.
I may be conspiracy-theorizing here...
If I take the average heal of KP + SP from procs during a single full KP cycle, and compare it to the number of KI's I could cast in the same time frame(fully mobile healing versus stationary healing), it comes to scarily close to 77% reduction for the KP+SP side.
I really hope I'm jumping at shadows, and I may very well be... but I have to ask. Have you done any further research into this? If so, do you have any solid numbers yet?
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Allow me to clarify... I'm a Commando.
haha, COMBAT medic. that would have been important to know.
my bad, my bad
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if you're alone, a single competent person can keep you fairly well wrapped up, if not kill you outright. It gets no easier as you level. We're just too vulnerable to interruption and general damage.
There are a few things you CAN do, though...
30% HP is your friend for survival, above all else. If you're under it, don't waste time trying to get a KInj off. Most people won't let you finish the cast, and shield/evasion don't last long enough to buy you the time anyway (unless you have an ungodly amount of alacrity). Do the SP spam. If you need TA, again, don't KInj. Shiv to get one. Once you have one, run away spamming SP on yourself until you die or they give up. If you ever get over 30%, cast KP on yourself, or stun/snare for distance (LoS helps in conjunction with these).
Above all, don't lose your TA. If you lose it (by SPing when above 30%) you're almost certainly done.
Your vanish should be used with evasion to clear dots. Otherwise, you're going to re-pop right in front of the person attacking you, and have a guaranteed-death self-induced debuff to make absolutely sure you die for trying to get away.
Ask for guard, a cross-healer, peels, or anything similar. Don't try to hoof it alone.
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Admittedly, I haven't hit 50. If that raises your hackles off the bat, move along. (I feel the need to clarify that I'm not trolling, I'm really just asking. I suppose that is my first mistake, as it seems MMO forums are hardly the place to find meaningful discussion.)
I spent some time on these forums before rolling my Op, and I won't lie.... It was disheartening... but I haven't encountered any situation that really made me feel underpowered. I've healed and played Dmg in both PvE and PvP content... and don't seem to have the issues that I see people posting about here. So, the point of my post here is... what's got everyone so upset?
I've played a facerolling Sorc and it was....neat. But it did feel too easy. I enjoy the challenge of having to work for my stats (primarily speaking PvP). I've seen a lot of comments about Ops not excelling and other classes being able to do so much better, but I'm really at a loss to find one instance, in my experience, that this rings true.
Is 50 so much different? Specifically, what challenges do Ops face during End-Game content (PvP and PvE)?
Now, before you classify me as a 'bleeding heart' or 'whiteknight' or whatever fancy lingo you kids are using these days... Stop and comprehend. I'm just asking. I'm not saying that I'm better and you're worse. I'm really, simply... just looking for decent feedback.
Kirk Out.
I don't think anyone here cares that you haven't hit 50 yet, so long as you don't pretend to post from a position of knowledge you don't have. (Also, meaningful discussion takes place on the role boards, not the class boards. For the most part.)
In PvE: You won't encounter difficulty until nightmare ops (barring really bad groups), so on this front you're probably in the best boat out of any of us. Unless you're extremely hardcore or extremely lucky, you won't reach Nightmare until the 'fixes' are right around the corner... and unless they make things WORSE, you'll be well-off when you DO hit Nightmare.
In PvP: I honestly think you should still reroll. Our coming 'fixes' will not include addition of a PvP utility move, because there is no high-end ranked PvP for bioware to run 'internal metrics' on to conclude that we're weak. Clearly, the balance team feels that we have enough utility now (a bitter joke, at best), and that we only need number-based adjusting.
This will not change until some time long after ranked PvP is implemented (to give them time to take internal measurements, since community input is clearly not good enough), and therefore over the course of the next few months our PvP lot will not change significantly. Better numbers will be nice, but the core problem will almost certainly not be addressed. For that reason more than any other, I suggest getting yourself a merc/sorc.
I try not to flame. I really do. I think most of the community feels pretty much the same... but there are some people on here that would make even Gandhi get mean.
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Let me guess, you are considered witty among your friends?
So when you say everyone, are you taking about the three other trolls that made similar responses to yours? I don't need to see mathematics. I understand my class and how its mechanics work. I think some of you need to look back through the tree, get some more play time under your belt and play to the class strengths versus whining about weaknesses.
Have fun!
You sir, are across the Stupidity Event Horizon. You lack understanding of this class to such a significant degree that there is no saving you, because you've convinced yourself that everyone else in the world is wrong.I only repeat myself in moments of extreme idiocy. This is one such moment. You're actually just about to hit the singularity, that's how far down you are.
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I guess you guys are correct since you posted so many constructive counters to what I said. OP healing is largely HoT based. I'm sorry if you all can't understand that and play to it's advantages. 3 of our 5 heals are HoTs and KP is the one you should be most concerned with. Spike damage is take care of with the others two. If you aren't playing this way, then I understand why you'd be having issues.
I generally find that stupidity has an Event Horizon. That means a point beyond which nothing can return.
You sir, are across the Stupidity Event Horizon. You lack understanding of this class to such a significant degree that there is no saving you, because you've convinced yourself that everyone else in the world is wrong.
Not that it will help, considering you're too far gone to save... but did you ever think that maybe (just maybe) if everyone is telling you that you're wrong, that you might be... wrong?
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HOTs are they key to this class
Juggling KP on most of the raid while throwing out injections or infusions as needed are how it works.
I also use the 31 point ability on cool down on the melee group.
If you are relying on Kinj for tact advantages, you are playing the class wrong, especially if you have the 4 piece set bonus.
I try to always use KInf if possible.
I've broken your post down to the parts where you clearly don't understand how to play an operative, are just flat out incorrect, claim something impossible under current energy regen mechanics, or show signs of underlying insanity.
Before you say "but I cleared HM ops like dis" allow me to remind you that you can clear HM ops even if you bind every key on your keyboard to Diagnostic Scan, and play by smashing your face into it repeatedly, so long as the raid is competent and you have a sorc as the other healer.
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Every day, another inexperienced operative/scoundrel who hasn't reached truly competitive play yet, and still thinks the class is always fine because it is fine before you reach competitive play, comes to the forums to post how every other operative/scoundrel in existence is just.... 'doing it wrong'.
Every day, another operative/scoundrel who has not run the numbers or played the other classes comes here with the conclusion that 'since we CAN finish raids, we're okay, l2p'.
Thank you. Thank you for coming here and telling us we're fine in all aspects of play because we can clear content and play competitively at low gear/level points of the game. Thank you.
When you get to the point where the rest of us are, and start seeing how underwhelming it really is, or when you've run the numbers against the other options, or when you've played a sorc healer for yourself, and seen what you're missing... come back and see me again.
That way, I can point you back to these posts, and remind you how certain you were of what you knew before you had actually seen what the class has to offer at high levels of play.
Operative Healer Question
in PvP
Posted