BroadStreetBully
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Posts posted by BroadStreetBully
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As a tank in this game, your responsibility is not to grab everything but to grab the strongest enemies while DPS burns down the smaller items. On my DPS alt, I expect that I should be able to handle silver and normal mobs. Any golds and elites should either be CCed or tanked. If you run with some less talented or less informed DPS and healers, they may expect that you should aggro everything since that is how it was in other games. As a tank on my main character, I unfortunately still run into this incorrect attitude while pugging. Also when approaching a pull, you should be deciding who you are attacking first and the DPS should pick up the others instead of the DPS attacking stuff and you aggroing the others. If they fail to do this, you need to stop and explain to them what they should be doing.
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I'll admit to hating math and not doing the math, but during beta I compared primary stat to power. Primary stat gives 4.9 points to damage, where power gives 4.8 points to damage. Your primary stat gives additional benefits (crit, surge, etc) where power only gives a bonus to raw damage.
So yeah, I'm a firm believer in primary stat > power first, then added power, crit, surge, etc. as they come. Alacrity is still a joke, so I tend to avoid it like the plague.
This is incorrect. You primary stat has .2 coefficient to damage. Power has a .23 coefficient. So Power is better for adding a little extra damage. Your primary stat is valuable in that it adds damage and crit chance. However, you have to look at how much crit you currently have. Ultimately you need to find the break even point where the extra crit chance from your main stats becomes so minimal that the extra damage from Power becomes better.
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Obviously there are lots of ways that threat generation could be adjusted, mathematically, but I do agree that this whole taunting-in-your-rotation thing needs to die.
As the OP highlights, things get much more problematic at high tiers of gear, which I suppose is down to the fact that DPS continue to gear for higher damage output while tanks continue to gear to maximise effective damage resistence. One idea that crossed my mind is that tanking stances should exponentially affect threat generation.
As a trivial example, if you're doing 900 dps* as a tank, then you're generating 1350 tps in a tanking stance (this completely ignores abilities with talented threat generation multipliers, but still). If, instead of applying a factor of 1.5, a tanking stance raised threat to the power of, say, 1.07, you'd have about 1450 tps instead. Obviously there are infinite variations, and you can invoke something more complex like a quadratic if you want finer control over how the curve looks, but my point is that, with the changes to taunt suggested above, and some data on the expected tank and DPS output at different gear tiers, the problem could be solved solely through tanking stances.
*I've got no idea what typical DPS figures are for tank specs in appropriate endgame gear. Just pulling numbers out of thin air to illustrate an academic point.
Your numbers have one huge flaw. Tanking stance increases threat by 100%. That turns 900dps as a tank to 1800 threat. This was one of the big changes in 1.3. Also, the taunting mechanic is nice because after a while, it allows the tank to focus on contributing more damage without worrying about keeping pace with a DPS. So I generally disagree with a majority of the posts in this thread.
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Also be aware that there are bugs in the tool that will sometimes queue a player for a role they did not choose. One of my guildies is a DPS sage. He selected only DPS everytime we queue and yet he always gets selected as a healer. Luckily for us we had a sage healer in the guild who was running with healer checked. The game grabbed him as a DPS. So in the end we got what we need, but it incorrect assigned the roles of both of them.
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I haven't seen anyone answer this yet, but I noticed yesterday that after I got my 5 tokens for running a HM flashpoint, the 5 token reward was still listed as available for SM Ops while the HM FPs reward was listed as having already been collected. Has anyone tried to see if you can get both rewards in a day?
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How is putting them on ignore gonna solve anything haha they are still there in the LFG jungle and you might come across them again.
Because the LFG tool will never group you with someone on your ignore list. It is one of the stated features of the tool.
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I do and I'm someone, so you're wrong. If you like this game, maybe you should care too. Rather than being smug, maybe accept that not everyone is as pleased with the rate or quality of releases as you are.
I am very pleased with this patch. If you like this game, I don't see how you couldn't like this patch. If you are one of those people who expect 10 new FPs with all new fight mechanics every week, then yes you would be disappointed, but I would also contend that your are not a fan of this game.
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People were talking about when 1.4 is coming, well i could care less about 1.4, just give us what we were told was going to be in 1.3. I mean we were told lvl cap increase, new planet, even a word about a new companion for one class, but these aren't in 1.3, like we were told. Was i reading the post from earlier wrong or what? Or was i the only one reading this, and i'm wrong?
None of that was intended for this 1.3 release. That was announced at E3 as features coming later this year but not in 1.3.
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Self Healing Currently (23566 Health)
3 Harnessed Darkness Force Lightening I get currently is 709 per tick for 4 ticks. I get to use this every 20-25 seconds depending on situations arising
Wow, what are you wasting all of you time on? When you finish a channel on TK throw, you throw a project, use Slow Time, and then attack with double strike until you proc particle acceleration and then use project again. With this scenario you can usually get a TK throw off every 6-9 seconds if you go for speed. If you want to maintain energy, then I would say 12 seconds is about right. Also, knockbacks only affect the TK throw portion of the rotation. I can throw my projects, slow time, and double strike on the move. Also, 709 per tick discounts any crits. So you should be able to get at least ~2800 (709 x 4) and get it in half the time you list. so in 20 seconds, you should be healing closer to ~5600.
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22% defense is much too low and that will kill the overall damage mitigation. Higher shields will smooth out the rate of damage received, but the defense stat is where you get your big mitigation.
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All you needed to do was read the tooltip to determine that...
So you are "comfortable" with taking 12.5% more damage than a Vanguard in identical gear, based on 80 seconds of combat with a training dummy?
Come on now, LagunaD. You are just embarrassing yourself. This change is not the end of the world, but rather a case of balance. Please don't keep spreading this false doom and gloom.
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This is why it won't be a problem.
I'm looking at Kephess HM in particular because he seems to be of most concern to people. The following are his attacks my average damage taken per (this is Live data).
Mighty Leap: 9,331 [1 count]
Empowered Slash: 10,494 [3 counts]
Melee Attack: 2,683 [33 counts]
Savage Wounding: 3683 (I believe this is the DoT he applies to tanks in pre-58% when he lands, so that is per tick) [18 counts]
Gift of the Masters: 3462 (this is his channeled 58% skill -- I only took 2 ticks) [2 counts]
No Escape: 914 [4 counts]
Savage Arcing Slash: 1732 [4 counts]
These are all -average- hits. I'll do total damage later. Below are the modified amounts with the 10% damage taken:
Mighty Leap: 9,331 + 931 = 10,264
Empowered Slash: 10,494 + 1049 = 11,543
Melee Attack: 2,683 + 268 = 2951
Savage Wounding: 3683 + 368 = 4,051 (I believe this is the DoT he applies to tanks in pre-58% when he lands, so that is per tick)
Gift of the Masters: 3462 + 346 = 3808 (this is his channeled 58% skill -- I only took 2 ticks)
No Escape: 914 + 91 = 1005
Savage Arcing Slash: 1732 + 173 = 1905
Yes 10% seems to be a big deal, but on a per hit basis, when your geared Shadows/Assassins have at least 24k+ health, nothing from Kephess himself seems unmanageable.
Now for total damage done by Kephess:
202585 damage done by Kephess.
With the 10% damage increase that is 20,528. This would be the worst case scenario. So the hardest hitting boss in the game only does an additional 20,528. Considering where my health hovers in that fight, coupled with the length and the per hit, it doesn't seem too bad. It certainly isn't the "Shadows are no longer tanks" paranoia that has run rampant.
Take the numbers as you will.
edit: My logs indicate that the time when Kephess did damage to me was 240 seconds (so 4 minutes). So you're looking at an additional 85.3 HPS from two healers to make up for the increase over that period of time.
Thank you for this detailed breakdown! It's nice to see some calm analysis of the data rather than doom and gloom.
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As a shadow tank, I can live with these changes. I wish I could keep my old stats but I can't. I know this is done to bring shadow tanks back on par with Vanguard and Guardians since Shadows have been so far ahead of them up until this point. It will require smarter play but that is fine. Now tanks can choose the spec they enjoy most and feel competitive rather than have to roll a shadow to be the best.
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1. Selkath
2. Nautolan
3. Gand
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I don't know man. Every server this morning is reading light. The Asian and Europe servers have a combined 5 standards. The rest light..
I logged in around 1pm central time and there were already a couple of the PvE servers that had jumped up to standard. Considering these were released during a weekday, i would expect the numbers to take a huge jump tonight when everyone gets home from work.
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This is a patch note from the latest release to the PTS:
This looks like a major nerf to any operations groups that run more than 1 of a speced class.
For example you could see up to a 50% reduction in the amount of armor debuffing that occurs if you run with 3 gunnery specd commandos.
I am not sure how much more nerfing my ops group can take:
MT Shadow
OT Guardian
H Sage
H Smuggler
DPS Commando
DPS Commando
DPS Commando
DPS Sentinel
Our ops group now has a paper tank and 3 DPSers who overwrite each other debuffs
I hope I am just reading this wrong.
Your shadow is far from a paper tank. If played properly, it was easily better than either of the other tanks. This nerf to shadows only brings them back in line with the others. As a shadow maintank, I am not too concerned about these changes. As for your trooper problems, maybe you need to see if you can get one or two of them to switch to assault. Most of their attacks bypass armor anyways since they are elemental burns. You could keep the one gunnery trooper around to provide the armor debuff for the group then.
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That's something we will have to see when 1.3 goes live.
With the new augment-system I can get an additional 252 main-staton my DPS-classes while the Juggernaut is losing PDS so missing attacks will probably lead to a loss of aggro at some point.
But with all of the threat numbers for tank abilities being doubled in most cases, it still is unlikely that threat will be much of an issue.
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I am not in any way trying to start a flame war or bash anything but I have a question.
I have several alts that are 50 and I wanted to start a new one, a healer. I decided to go Scoundrel and I know there is a healing guide above. However, my question is how do they compare to the other classes? I have not really seen many on my server and most just PvP.
If it is a challenge to heal then I do not mind a challenge as easy mode characters get boring to me but can a Scoundrel main heal an ops or are they mostly back up healers like Commandos are to main tanks. Commandos rock at single target healing, sages rock at group healing and bubbles, what tricks do scoundrels have for being the main healer and at what level can you expect to successfully heal in a FP?
Thank you in advance for the replys as I really want to try this class out but would like to know a few things first.
I've noticed on my Scoundrel compared to my Commando, that I have a lot more mobility. I can cast more items on the run. Also, I can better stay in my target regen area and recover better from overspending. I also love how Emergency medpac will refund a stack of upper hand if your target is below 30% health. This allows you to continuously heal a target that is really low without running out of your healing procs.
My only problem with this class so far is the leveling. I am consistently 4-5 levels below the content making leveling hard. I am at a loss too because I haven't been skipping content. I have had to resort to doing space missions to try to boost my XP levels.
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Hi Hardmode EC healer here, and Shadow Tanks are the hardest to heal, juggs take significantly less damage then shadow tanks do. The reason shadow tanks are the best right now is due to the higher threat ceiling allowing dps to do their job without pulling aggro and killing the raid. This was rightfully fixed this patch.
As for pvp no one ever complained about a Tank being hard to kill in pvp, people complained about tanks in dps gear putting up competitive numbers while gaining significantly increased survivability. Instead of fixing the problem, dps, they pulled a Dick Cheney and nerfed tanking.
After the healer changes and now this I'm fairly certain bioware class devs are incompetent.
That is not true. A good shadow tank will take less damage than the other tank classes. They will take less predictable damage than a Guardian. The Guardian has lower mitigation stats than the other tanks, but they use heavy armor to reduce the damage. The reliance on armor for a straight damage reduction leads to smooth damage. The shadow has the best combined mitigation stats for Defense/Shield/Absorb. To even the playing field a little they had lower armor. This means that they may take spikes of damage at times, but then they can go long times with taking very little damage. Add to the fact that a Shadow tank can heal themselves for 12% of their health roughly every 15 seconds, that leads to a very overpowered tank. As a shadow tank, I can live with these nerfs because I know I've had it way easier than other tanks up until this point. Now, I will have to put in the same effort as the other classes, but I will still be completely viable.
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I will continue to be a main tank in PvE. Instead of being a ways ahead of the other tank classes, I will now simply be on par with them. I have expected this for a while based on how well shadow tanks have performed.
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You're so full of ****, your eyes are brown. Sin tanks are already the worst tanks on any boss that loves to ignore shields (Stormcaller and Kephess in Denova just to name two). Jugs and PTs already take about 80% of the dmg we do on attacks that don't get defended or shielded. With these changes, sin's damage intake will be far too great to heal through on any encounter where shields are heavily ignored or useless, it would be idiotic to use us over the other two tanks who have both better mitigation and superior tanking cooldowns.
This change is clearly an answer to PVP whiners. I couldn't care less if they got rid of self healing all together and brought our mitigation UP to where the other two tanks are. Instead, they're making us even worse for PVE. If these changes go through, I'm done with my sin, and quite possibly with the game too. And in that case, my brother and gf will be done as well, and THAT is a fact, not some empty nerd ragequit threat.
This is a nerd ragequit threat. Back to the point though.
Shadows are currently better tanks than any other class. They have good defense, great shields, and decent absorb. Guardians have high defense but low shield and absorb, and vanguards have low defense and high shield/absorb. So while shadows had less armor, they were getting good returns from all three mitigation stats instead of just 1 or 2. They paid for this with the fact that they had less damage reduction from armor. They also had high self-healing. After this nerf, they still will do decent self-healing. If you somehow thought these classes were all magically balanced right now, then you have bigger issues than this nerf.
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I was looking forward to this patch because of:-
Excitement turns to despair as I read:-
•Cell Charger has been redesigned. While Armor-Piercing Cell is active, there is a 50% chance per point to generate 1 Energy Cell every 6 seconds.
•Charged Barrel and Gravity Surge have swapped positions in the Skill Tree. Charged Barrel now requires Grav Round and Gravity Surge now requires Charged Barrel.
•Gravity Surge now additionally grants an extra stack of Charged Barrel and Charged Barrier, if applicable, with each Grav Round fired.
•Heavy Trooper now increases healing received by 1% per point (down from 3%).
Other than the 'streaky resource management' blah blah, how do the changes in any way:-
1) Improve the gameply?
2) Improve the quality of life?
3) Address the concerns of the community?
The gameplay is still the same. The inability to remove melee from us is still the same. We still have no interrupt and no root. Our snares are tied to other abilities that have CDs (and are still awful). We still have no interrupt protection and no escape mechanism that isnt instantly counterable by an opposing ability with a shorter CD. Our off-heals are still not worth the cast-time, pushback or resource cost (i would gladly swap off-healing ability for something I might actually use...ever).
These are almost purely PvE tweaks. If the overall intention is to leave this spec as probably the worst PvP spec and make it PvE only, please put something in a description somewhere stating this fact and we can stop stubbornly sticking with it in the vain hope of getting some sort of help in dealing with constant melee pressure and lack of movement/escape opportunities.
I can see ZERO reason to pick a DPS Commando over either a Assault VG or Gunslinger.
It is just frustrating to wait from promised "Quality-of-life" changes only to see minor changes to stuff we didn't really have a problem with to begin with, and nothing addressing the glaring issues playing this spec in PvP.
If any BW employee reads this, thanks for your time.
This game is a PvE focused game that also has PvP in it. Bioware made these changes to increase the damage output for commandos and they are good changes. They have to be careful adding lots of PvP quality changes, because they can break the PvE balance very easily.
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Needing 5 grav round shots for 5 charged barrel stacks means we didn't care how many charged barrel stacks we had for HiB.
Needing 3 grav round shots for 5 charged barrel stacks means we're always going to take the time to make sure we have the 5 stacks before we fire.
You point out that we might lose a chance at Crit based regen due to mobility, lag, hammer shot, etc. Well, the same applies for Charged Barrrel Buffs. They are short lived buff that will disappear if we fire another shot to refresh the buff.
But that's not the point I was trying to make. The point is: We suddenly have to care about Charged Barrel Stacks, so it's going to feel like we're firing grav round more because we're paying it that much more attention. (That is to say, I think that's what the original guy was trying to say.
You don't have to worry about the number of charged barrel stacks. If you play your rotation the same way you did in 1.2, you will do more damage in 1.3 now simply because by doing what you already do, you will have more charged barrel stacks. For instance, if you use your 3 grav rounds to get 5 gavity vortices for your demo round, you currently will have 3 charged barrel stacks. In 1.3, you will have a full 5 stacks at this point. So you can fire off HiB like normal and get 12% additional damage. Following your opening when you are simply maintaining gravity vortices, you likely won't have a full stack of charged barrel. However, everytime you refresh gravity vortices, you will get 2 charged barrel stacks. For gunnery, this really shouldn't affect your rotation much, instead it should just be a mechanism that is likely giving you an extra 6% to 12% damage on HiB every time you use it.
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Defense is practically useless against high end PvE content, since it only affects "white" damage. And Vanguards have much higher shield and absorb.
Indeed. And now we're essentially equivalent to a Medium Armored DPS that can taunt. And how often do you hear people wanting Sentinels to tank?
Defense is anything but useless. It is incredibly useful. And if you want to talk about Force/Tech damage, then shadow already is better than the other specs, so I still don't see what your point is.
Tanking Trash: Am I doing it wrong?
in Combat Styles
Posted · Edited by BroadStreetBully
No, grabbing everything isn't the correct technique. If you try to do that you will simply set your group up to fail. For one thing, many large trash pulls are too big for the tank to take all of the damage. Also, if the DPS burn down the small targets and then go help the tank, more mobs will die quickly so the whole pull will die quicker and the group will take less total damage which eases the burden of the healer.