Wookiebeast
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Posts posted by Wookiebeast
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This is the reason for the trees and people making choices of how they like to play a particular class so that said you can be a strictly dps and heal on the side or primary heal and dps on the side.
So telling someone they are a healer and only a healer is wrong.
I agree that we are support but that comes in so many ways.
You can fit in where you're needed you have choices.
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What follows is an objective analysis comparing Scoundrel/Operative to counterpart roles. Its difficult to say that the class I was so excited about is now so terrible, but denial isn't helpful to anyone.
Before continuing, ask yourself: "What can Scoundrel do better than another class?" The answer is: nothing.
My proposed changes to fix the Scrapper problems can be found here.
PvP
UPDATE: I believe the 1.1.1 nerf was necessary. Scoundrel opener burst damage was too high. However, without that burst we need better sustained damage and survivability. This is what we lack. I don't want the insane burst back, I want to be a balanced, well-rounded class.
Damage - Scrapper
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." -Sun Tzu
The Scrapper is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The great advantage of stealth is being able to choose your battles. I do not wish to discount this point.
However, after the recent nerfs, our opener damage has been significantly lowered due to the damage decrease coupled with armor penetration reduction. We are still able to put out moderate damage and exercise a brief control/stun period, after which our damage plummets and the target is free.
As a melee class with no gap-closing ability and low survivability, we are relegated to the periphery of combat. Any amount of focus fire will kill us, regardless of healing.
Comparison - Jedi Shadow
Like the Scrapper, the Shadow is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The Shadow offers similar opener damage, but much-superior sustained/ongoing damage, with a similar stun period.
The Shadow also has greatly-incrased gap-closing ability with Force Speed, and superior survivability with tanking abilities and Force Wave to buy distance.
Thus, the Shadow is superior in every way to Scrapper.
Healing - Sawbones
"A pint of sweat, saves a gallon of blood." -George S. Patton
Sawbones is a hot-based healer with almost no burst-healing and no damage-offset potential on other players. In short, if someone is being focused, we need wind-up time to get Slow-Release Medpack rolling and to cast heals. We have no shields and no strong channeled, reactive or instant cast heal to recover a target from low-health/danger situations. HoTs offer survivability in very small group situations but quickly become useless as damage increases. We also suffer from energy issues in any healing-intensive situations.
Sawbones also has no savior or utility abilities. Emergency Medpack, while useful as a stopgap/energy saver can't keep a target alive through significant damage and uses a GCD which prevents bigger heals from being cast. Thus, as with damage, the healing Scoundrel is relegated to small battles in lightly contested areas and is not much use in a pitched battle.
Comparison - Sage
The Sage is the "perfect" healer. It offers serious burst-healing and damage-offset potential. Through Rejuvenate/Healing Trance a Sage can do heavy healing and they can buy time with Force Armor for their powerful heals to land.
For utility and survivability, in addition to Force Armor, a Sage has Force Wave and Force Speed to use as escape methods and talents. A Sage makes the perfect healer for groups and single targets and is difficult to bring down or stop from healing.
Jedi Sage is superior in every way to Scoundrel.
Comparison - Commando
The Commando is not quite as effective as the Sage in some situations but offers other benefits. A Commandos reactive heals allow them to keep themselves or another target up through significant incoming damage. Their AOE 11-point AOE heal is far more effective than our 31-point AOE heal, by increasing all incoming healing on affected targets and reducing their damage taken. Has significant boost to healing crit chance and highly mobile.
For utility Commando has the best AOE knockback in the game. For survivability, Commandos armor and healing mobility, combined with damage reduction and reactive healing make them very difficult to kill.
Commando is superior in every way to Scoundrel.
PvE
Damage - Scrapper/Dirty Fighting
"Gentlemen, we are being killed on the beaches. Let us go inland and be killed." -General Norman Cota
Scrapper and DF both require melee or near-melee range to deal damage. In Flashpoints and Operations, this puts them in the general category of melee. The problem with both of these trees is the lack of sustained damage on high-health targets. Scoundrels are able to deal moderate damage for a short period of time, but must either scale back their damage or run out of energy. As a result their sustained damage is very low compared to other melee.
The Scoundrel has extremely limited AOE damage and is not effective in this area. We also have no raid boost or utility abilities.
Comparison - Jedi Sentinel
A Sentinel has options for either AOE/burst damage (Focus) or Damage over time (Watchman). A Watchman Sentinel has arguably the best sustained damage in the game, as it does not encounter any serious energy issues.
The Sentinel has moderate AOE abilities with Cyclone Slash and Force Sweep, and can boost the raid damage/healing by 15% once per fight.
Comparison - Jedi Shadow
Like a Sentinel, the Shadow offers superior damage from near-melee range compared to Scoundrel, and like the Sentinel, the Shadow does not encounter serious energy issues. A Shadow's sustained single-target damage is very strong.
The Shadow has similarly low AOE damage, but offers superior single target damage, compared to the Scoundrel
Healing - Sawbones
"It requires more courage to suffer than to die." -Napoleon Bonaparte
A Sawbones healer in PvE suffers from many of the same problems as PvP, however energy management becomes a much greater part of the problem. Scoundrels have solid Heals Per Second on a single target, through the use of Slow-Release Medpac and Underworld Medicine. This makes them ideal tank healers.
Scoundrels lack the capacity to heal groups, due to energy starvation concerns, HoT maintenance, and the weakness of Kolto Cloud.
Comparison - Jedi Sage
A Sage healer in PvE is amazing. With powerful single-target heals, shields and channeled abilities, a sage can heal a tank just as well as a Scoundrel, if not better, due to being able to grant armor boosts to its heal targets.
However, Sages truly shine in their AOE healing. With Salvation and Force Armor, a Sage can save hurt party members and rapidly heal the group as a whole.
A Sage completely overshadows Scoundrel in every way.
Comparison - Commando
A Commando is a great complement to any other healer because of its unique healing style. With its reactive heals and good mobility, a Commando can help a great deal with tank healing, though is not ideally suited to doing this job a lone.
As an AOE healer, a Commando is again a great complement to another healer, with their Kolto Bomb offering damage reduction and increased healing. Reactive abilities and mobile-healing also aid with this.
In a group situation, a Commando is not quite as good at tank healing as a Scoundrel unless there is AOE/group healing that needs to be done as well. Again, the utility of the Commando puts it way ahead.
Summary
PvP DPS - Scoundrel is worse than Shadow and offers the least sustained damage of any class, with only moderate burst. Scoundrel is the worst PvP DPS class.
PvP Healing - Scoundrel is worse than both Commando and Sage, and offers the least survivability and burst-healing of any healer. Scoundrel is the worst PvP Healer.
PvE DPS - Scoundrel offers least sustained damage of any melee DPS class and suffers from energy starvation and overall low damage. Scoundrel is the worst melee DPS class.
PvE Healing - Scoundrel offers good tank healing, but terrible group/AOE healing. In Flashpoints, a Sage or Commando is preferable, and in raids the best healing setup is Sage/Sage or Sage/Commando. Scoundrel is the worst PvE healer.
Boy are you clueless!!
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What follows is an objective analysis comparing Scoundrel/Operative to counterpart roles. Its difficult to say that the class I was so excited about is now so terrible, but denial isn't helpful to anyone.
Before continuing, ask yourself: "What can Scoundrel do better than another class?" The answer is: nothing.
My proposed changes to fix the Scrapper problems can be found here.
PvP
UPDATE: I believe the 1.1.1 nerf was necessary. Scoundrel opener burst damage was too high. However, without that burst we need better sustained damage and survivability. This is what we lack. I don't want the insane burst back, I want to be a balanced, well-rounded class.
Damage - Scrapper
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." -Sun Tzu
The Scrapper is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The great advantage of stealth is being able to choose your battles. I do not wish to discount this point.
However, after the recent nerfs, our opener damage has been significantly lowered due to the damage decrease coupled with armor penetration reduction. We are still able to put out moderate damage and exercise a brief control/stun period, after which our damage plummets and the target is free.
As a melee class with no gap-closing ability and low survivability, we are relegated to the periphery of combat. Any amount of focus fire will kill us, regardless of healing.
Comparison - Jedi Shadow
Like the Scrapper, the Shadow is a stealth-based alpha strike class. The Shadow offers similar opener damage, but much-superior sustained/ongoing damage, with a similar stun period.
The Shadow also has greatly-incrased gap-closing ability with Force Speed, and superior survivability with tanking abilities and Force Wave to buy distance.
Thus, the Shadow is superior in every way to Scrapper.
Healing - Sawbones
"A pint of sweat, saves a gallon of blood." -George S. Patton
Sawbones is a hot-based healer with almost no burst-healing and no damage-offset potential on other players. In short, if someone is being focused, we need wind-up time to get Slow-Release Medpack rolling and to cast heals. We have no shields and no strong channeled, reactive or instant cast heal to recover a target from low-health/danger situations. HoTs offer survivability in very small group situations but quickly become useless as damage increases. We also suffer from energy issues in any healing-intensive situations.
Sawbones also has no savior or utility abilities. Emergency Medpack, while useful as a stopgap/energy saver can't keep a target alive through significant damage and uses a GCD which prevents bigger heals from being cast. Thus, as with damage, the healing Scoundrel is relegated to small battles in lightly contested areas and is not much use in a pitched battle.
Comparison - Sage
The Sage is the "perfect" healer. It offers serious burst-healing and damage-offset potential. Through Rejuvenate/Healing Trance a Sage can do heavy healing and they can buy time with Force Armor for their powerful heals to land.
For utility and survivability, in addition to Force Armor, a Sage has Force Wave and Force Speed to use as escape methods and talents. A Sage makes the perfect healer for groups and single targets and is difficult to bring down or stop from healing.
Jedi Sage is superior in every way to Scoundrel.
Comparison - Commando
The Commando is not quite as effective as the Sage in some situations but offers other benefits. A Commandos reactive heals allow them to keep themselves or another target up through significant incoming damage. Their AOE 11-point AOE heal is far more effective than our 31-point AOE heal, by increasing all incoming healing on affected targets and reducing their damage taken. Has significant boost to healing crit chance and highly mobile.
For utility Commando has the best AOE knockback in the game. For survivability, Commandos armor and healing mobility, combined with damage reduction and reactive healing make them very difficult to kill.
Commando is superior in every way to Scoundrel.
PvE
Damage - Scrapper/Dirty Fighting
"Gentlemen, we are being killed on the beaches. Let us go inland and be killed." -General Norman Cota
Scrapper and DF both require melee or near-melee range to deal damage. In Flashpoints and Operations, this puts them in the general category of melee. The problem with both of these trees is the lack of sustained damage on high-health targets. Scoundrels are able to deal moderate damage for a short period of time, but must either scale back their damage or run out of energy. As a result their sustained damage is very low compared to other melee.
The Scoundrel has extremely limited AOE damage and is not effective in this area. We also have no raid boost or utility abilities.
Comparison - Jedi Sentinel
A Sentinel has options for either AOE/burst damage (Focus) or Damage over time (Watchman). A Watchman Sentinel has arguably the best sustained damage in the game, as it does not encounter any serious energy issues.
The Sentinel has moderate AOE abilities with Cyclone Slash and Force Sweep, and can boost the raid damage/healing by 15% once per fight.
Comparison - Jedi Shadow
Like a Sentinel, the Shadow offers superior damage from near-melee range compared to Scoundrel, and like the Sentinel, the Shadow does not encounter serious energy issues. A Shadow's sustained single-target damage is very strong.
The Shadow has similarly low AOE damage, but offers superior single target damage, compared to the Scoundrel
Healing - Sawbones
"It requires more courage to suffer than to die." -Napoleon Bonaparte
A Sawbones healer in PvE suffers from many of the same problems as PvP, however energy management becomes a much greater part of the problem. Scoundrels have solid Heals Per Second on a single target, through the use of Slow-Release Medpac and Underworld Medicine. This makes them ideal tank healers.
Scoundrels lack the capacity to heal groups, due to energy starvation concerns, HoT maintenance, and the weakness of Kolto Cloud.
Comparison - Jedi Sage
A Sage healer in PvE is amazing. With powerful single-target heals, shields and channeled abilities, a sage can heal a tank just as well as a Scoundrel, if not better, due to being able to grant armor boosts to its heal targets.
However, Sages truly shine in their AOE healing. With Salvation and Force Armor, a Sage can save hurt party members and rapidly heal the group as a whole.
A Sage completely overshadows Scoundrel in every way.
Comparison - Commando
A Commando is a great complement to any other healer because of its unique healing style. With its reactive heals and good mobility, a Commando can help a great deal with tank healing, though is not ideally suited to doing this job a lone.
As an AOE healer, a Commando is again a great complement to another healer, with their Kolto Bomb offering damage reduction and increased healing. Reactive abilities and mobile-healing also aid with this.
In a group situation, a Commando is not quite as good at tank healing as a Scoundrel unless there is AOE/group healing that needs to be done as well. Again, the utility of the Commando puts it way ahead.
Summary
PvP DPS - Scoundrel is worse than Shadow and offers the least sustained damage of any class, with only moderate burst. Scoundrel is the worst PvP DPS class.
PvP Healing - Scoundrel is worse than both Commando and Sage, and offers the least survivability and burst-healing of any healer. Scoundrel is the worst PvP Healer.
PvE DPS - Scoundrel offers least sustained damage of any melee DPS class and suffers from energy starvation and overall low damage. Scoundrel is the worst melee DPS class.
PvE Healing - Scoundrel offers good tank healing, but terrible group/AOE healing. In Flashpoints, a Sage or Commando is preferable, and in raids the best healing setup is Sage/Sage or Sage/Commando. Scoundrel is the worst PvE healer.
Boy are you clueless!!
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Still accepting questions in the thread or via pm.
Can you give a basic rotation for the Hybrid build just something to use as a guide?
Thanks
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There are always different views and one person claiming they are wrong this is how it is well your best bet is to read all the opinions including the sicky up top witch tells you that Infiltration is good <=22 after that go Kenetic then when you reach the 30's Balanced - again one persons opinion.
You will need to try out each spec for a few levels to get a feel for it and pick the one that best fits your play style and that is the best for you regardless of what all these other so called experts tell you.
Even me
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Wondering what spec would be good for leveling as a mara from 22-50 and using healing companion plus the rotation's ?
If you read the sticky topics - which means they are a good reliable source for info, the spec for leveling is Carnage and last I read the PvP spec for end game is Rage.
But really the best spec is what meets the type of player you like to be when playing your character.
May the Force be with you.
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English dude!!
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When I come into a forum for a particular class and don't see a sticky at top that someone has done a helpful guide for that class that tells me this is not the class I want to roll
1. Not enough people playing
2. With not enough people playing it tells me that it is not a good class to play
Just an observation
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Good guide - would be great guide if you post skill trees to support what you say
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I don't know about higher levels I hope it improves but in lower lvl like 12-13 the attack abilities are either on cool down or there is no force. Force generation sucks. I play a marauder and I can keep hitting my mob while the Guardian is sitting there waiting and not hitting. I have read about priority and how to build force but it is not working well enough. It is frustrating takes too long to kill and my droid does most of the work. Good thing I wear heavy armor.
Personally I don't see the attraction to slow in killing but then it is supposed to be a tank and not a dos monster - my bad - guess I reroll and be a sentinel
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What is it with these links from guides like this not working???
I don't have the problem on other forums but for some reason these are not working today.
Grrrr
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So far I have found none of the links to people's trees working the system just hangs.
I don't have problems in other threads viewing people's trees.
Hmmmmm
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The following is a JK: guardian DPS guide for a PVE focus spec.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500ZfhMRZG0RrdrodG.1
NOTE: The 2 points in Burning blade are free points put them where you like.
Stat Priority: Strength>Surge>Accuracy>Crit=Power
The reason for this stat order is as a JK: guardian we get a lot of buffs from STR, also as focus spec all of our spells that use force get 30% crit damage from Focused Resonance.
for that reason surge is 2nd best stat. accuracy takes over as 3rd as any hit chance over 100% lowers target defenses to your attacks. Crit and power are = as they are not our best stats a JK: sent. gets better benefit from power and Crit then we do.
Forms: when leveling you will use Shii-Cho form. once unlocked you will switch to Shien form for the damage boost and force refund effect. unless you go for the Shien form first you will not unlock it until 48. once unlocked however, you will notice that force is less of an issue then before.
Spell Rotation: the Spell rotation for this spec is a priority based system.
Master Strike>Zealous Leap>Blade Storm>Slash.
anytime you force leap or Zealous Leap try to hit force sweep as your skill felling blow makes it a 100% Crit chance
if you find you need force power use your Combat focus, saber throw, or force leap.
slash is your force dump if you are full on force and have none of the 3 prior spells ready.
when the target is below 20% remember to use dispatch.
Gear: currently I do not have a BiS list ready; however, I suggest full mod gear so that you can set your stats your self.
BiS list: <place holder>(TBA)
Closing notes: This guide is meant to help point players in a general direction when they wish to play a JK:Guardian focus spec in PVE. alterations and alternative specs are welcome. if you want a spec reviewed plz submit it to the forum.
Flaming or thread bashing is not welcome and will be reported
The link does not work for the spec can you post one that does?
Thanks
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What would really help is showing your rotation or what abilities you assigned to what hot bar position.
Thanks
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- Let this inspire you.
I agree I would also like to see your skill tree setup and priority list.
thanks
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It still comes down to choice
This is a great guide for people to get information but even if someone says this build is better there is always someone. Around to say no my build is better I am a lvl 50 and this build has kicked ***.
Don't get. Me wrong I use these guides to as base to start my build and adjust along the way.
Keep it up people but remember don't take anybody's word as the authority.
Plat Ball!!!!
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Awesome guide; thanks!
Your link to skill tree don't work either must be an issue with the site ur using
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Your link to the skill trees does not show the full numbers as the link implies - instead of 5/33/3 we feet 2/3/3
Can you send me a link to the correct skill tree for Deception?
Thanks
PvP Sorcerer Thoughts and Question Thread
in Sage / Sorcerer
Posted
How about some rotation for each of the builds - primarily Madness and hybrid
Thanks