bobudo
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Posts posted by bobudo
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Some of this is understandable. I've started playing a DPS character myself, and it is frustrating when a healer wipes out all of your hard work.
What's interesting is that, as a healer, I don't get pissed when someone starts attacking someone I've just gotten back to full health; I expect as much to happen.
The complaints you're hearing are from DPS kiddies that rolled over from World of Roguecraft. If they can't solo every class in the game then "things are broken" and "healers need a nerf".
It's no wonder they love 1.2 - it shows the Devs are actively listening to them and catering to their needs. The Devs have said as much as well, frequently commenting on "what a success PvP has been" in TOR and saying that it's a top priority.
It's also why they're going to break the game, because the PvP team doesn't like healers.
That's not hyperbole: it's been quoted before (can't find the quote for the life of me) and it's evident from the PvP design choices that they don't want a healer being able to sit back and heal; they envision PvP healing as something you do spottily to prolong conflicts, not to win them.
So take the PvP teams prejudices (they're DPSers at heart) and the PvP kiddies whines and what do you get?
Healers that cannot match 1:1 the damage dealt by a DPS class.
Watch. 1.3 will nerf tanks, because they'll be the only ones left who can stand up to DPS.
Bioware has apparently decided to make this game into Star Wars: The DPS Empire; can't say I'll miss not seeing that.
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What I think is happening is that they are not sure how to quantify the utility skills they created for Sage/Sorc, and are perhaps over-valuing the "defensive utility" of the heavier armor classes, as well as abilities like stealth, or the ability to deal damage at range, versus in melee.
Yes, 1000x yes. Thank you for getting this so right; I've written literal chapters worth of posts trying to say just this.
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Sorc and Operatives are sitting there rezzing people while the BH is relegated to spamming heals, because we can't do anything else.
ZOMGZ BH NUMBERS ARE TOO HIGH.. -_-
. . .
I understand that not having a combat rez is frustrating*, but given how Combat Rez works in TOR, your point is invalid.
Using the combat rez applies a 5-min debuff to the entire party; it cannot be removed for any reason (leaving combat, death, wipe, etc.). Anyone afflicted with that debuff cannot benefit from the use of the combat rez.
Furthermore Combat Rez is extremely buggy - from my own experiences around 1/4 of the time the rez will report "Target Cannot Benefit From That Ability." which makes me laugh every time because they clearly could benefit were it working
So yes there are situations where a Sorc/Sage/Op/Sc healer dies and the other healer, a Merc/Comm, cannot rez them, and that does suck.
But no it is not a big enough of a deal to have caused any difference in the numbers.
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Now now, don't get me wrong, I think the Merc/Comm nerfs are foolish; in my opinion that they were neigh unkillable in PvP if played well should have been part of the design.
I just don't think that having a combat log will do much. Pre-1.2 we've already been able to show with napkin math that things were bad; game-generated logs will either support that or not.
- If they don't, like GZ seems to insist, then nothing will change and we'll all eat crow.
- If the do, which is likely, then the issue is the benchmarks which GZ is setting for healing.
The real problem here isn't numbers, it's design; either a lack of or just plain poor.
Having the numbers to support that assertion doesn't change anything, as GZ has and will continue to design by numbers, not vice versa. It's why we've been asking for design statements on Healers for months now (and it's my understanding that this was sought in Beta as well) for this very reason: TOR healing isn't flawed despite design, it's flawed for lack of design.
The Devs can only look and the numbers and make adjustments when it's solely the numbers that matter. It's why when GZ says Operative/Scoundrel DPS is only 5% off-of Marauder/Sentinel everyone keeps raging, because the Operative/Scoundrel class still is/feels less potent because of design (e.g. no ability to close in-combat, etc.)
This problem is amplified regarding healing, specifically because there is very little design apparent in the healing classes - they're just a hodgepodge of restorative abilities tacked-on to what are otherwise DPS classes. That's what makes it weird when the only class that looked like it had been well-designed at all - Sorc/Sage - gets a (reportedly) strong nerf to those mechanics; I submit this as proof positive that there is no coherent design targets for Healers.
Furthermore, merely adjusting healing classes by numbers is a poor approach; healing isn't purely about the numbers like DPS is, it's about keeping people alive. Period.
- If I invented the Weaksauce healing class that could only do 1/10th of the healing of any other class, but could keep the party alive, then it would be a successful healing class.
- If I invented the OMGSTRONGS healing class that could do 10x the healing of any other class, but it couldn't keep people alive, then it would be an unsuccessful healing class.
It's why 1.2 is a DPS player's approach to healing balance - just adjusting the numbers around is something you to fix DPS balance, but it means squat to healers; Bioware is going to start learning that first hand when 1.2 hits and Merc/Comm healers cannot keep people alive despite hitting the "benchmark".
And that's why, in the end, the numbers (and ergo the combat logs) don't matter: until healing in this game actually gets designed, the numbers are silly because the game will still be flawed.
*(I played a Druid in vanilla WoW, so I didn't have an OOC rez - so I really do understand).
- If they don't, like GZ seems to insist, then nothing will change and we'll all eat crow.
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The players that fail, what will they do? Will they stay and continue to fail. And what of the mediocre players. This is not a free to play MMO. Players will not pay to just get buy. They most certainly will not pay to fail. Can the great players alone finance this game?
Re-roll DPS?
I mean, being good at a class isn't the same casual vs. hardcore timesink debate that end-game content is; you either get a feel for your class' playstyle or not. To that extent, the bell curve for class performance isnt going to look like a bell - you might expect the majority of players in a class to perform to the 80-85 percent range.
And yes, it is preferable, because it means everyone has fun. If one guy playing his class can best you every time, its not like your helpless. Get a friend, avoid the beast, or learn to play in a group.
MMOs are, stripped of their fun, iterative learning engines. You attempt, fail, modify behavior, succeed.
This chain of events is necessary, otherwise the game is boring.
So tl;dr, am I saying that there's no way that Sorc/Sage didn't need an adjustment? No - if players in the 80-85 percent range were able to negate resource scarcity then something needed to be adjusted. But there are always going to be outliers on the performance curve, and you cannot balance around outliers.
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Aye I'd agree that metrics seem to be the basis of a fair bit of BW design.
Unfortunately, if you go primarily from metrics, you can often be led into implementing solutions that simplify the problem, because they produce more predictable and more controllable results. But simplifying classes also tends to lead to them becoming dull and losing their character.
The more leeway you leave for character variation, game-play choices and skill... the less predictable the system becomes and the wider the bell curve gets, meaning that more and more stray outside your target performance.
So you end up doing things like allowing med-packs to only be used once while in combat.... in order to try to control the variables.
Before you could learn Biochem, or farm credits, or share stuff in your guild in order to be sure you have plenty of med-packs and become better than those who didn't put in that effort or organisation. Now, everybody is pulled down to a controlled low performance on that game mechanic and so everybody falls neatly into a very narrow band in the middle of the bell curve.
I can see their reasoning... they want to be able to balance content well against players, and when players have a wide spread of ability, that becomes much more difficult. As he said, if they balance the content at the harder end, to challenge the well-equipped and well prepared - then it can 'force' the weaker players to have to shell out lots of credits to buy medpacks.
But this is really not good reasoning. One of the major motivations to improve your character, improve your skill, band together with other good players, form guilds etc... is that you need to do this in order to succeed against the hardest content. And completing really tough content, gives one of those key MMO rewards: Status.
Building content that is primarily driven by metrics, in the way that GZ seems to do it, tends to lead to homogenisation and removes player excellence and organisation.... which is really what an MMO should be about, shouldn't it?
In the same way, it also leads to bad design decisions a lot of the time. They've set a healing output metric and worked out a way for the Sorc/Sage to be pulled back to that. But in order to o do that, they've removed a bunch of mechanics that had allowed people to widen the bell-curve and so, it looks like they've opted for a solution that will severely reduce the fun and game-play quality of the classes.... but it hits the metrics, and so must be good, mustn't it?
Well... clearly no.
It's a bit like the question of whether democracy is better or a benevolent dictator. Democracy is messy and can be unpredictable and can produce really yucky outlying results from time to time. Benevolent dictators can be very consistent and tend to pull everybody toward a median - for their own good. But then... you're not free and it's hard to excel and people that stand out... tend to disappear.
It's a tough thing to get the balance right... but it seems to me that at the moment, GZ is too much 'Benevolent Dictator' and not quite enough Social Democrat....
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Exactly: the problem with designing a game on a spreadsheet is that it starts to look more like "Excel: the Game" instead of something people actually want to play.
The 1.2 patch demonstrates a lack of imagination, clear and simple. Rather than attempt to actually introduce balance, it instead seeks to normalize output.
There's a subtle difference between those two terms, one the Devs arent demonstrating a grasp of: balance is an art form, it cannot be done solely on the numbers, but also the feel of a class.
Normalizing instead destroys a class.
You want to know how I judge a well made class? On the backs of those who are absolutely unstoppable in the hands of a skilled player. Where the PvP kids cry "nerf" everytime they lose to a player who is neigh godlike in their class, I think that is the benchmark.
So when GZ says that Sorc/Sage resource management needed to be nerfed because very good players never ran out of force, I see him back tracking from a well designed class.
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Everything will get changed AGAIN after combat logs are torn to shreds..
So relax.
unlikely - Georg Zoeller has already had the logs (and far more data), and that's what he's based 1.2 on.
I disagree with GZ from a design philosophy, but you cant fault the man when it come to numbers ; that is very clearly his "thing".
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I agree with the distinction between potency and fun, however:
The biggest problem I see with making healers weak like this is that it limits encounter design significantly. When you have no raid cooldowns you can use, no long CD AOE heals like Tranquility, no mitigation tools like Hand of Sac or bubble, no Lay on Hands, etc., and only rely on 2-3 healing abilities, then what you can throw at players in terms of raid damage and tank damage is very very limited.
Isn't this really just the flip side of same potency coin (I also agree that this type of "design" [using that word loosely] is boring)?
If you only have a limited toolset, then what is your potency?
I understand that from a "design" perspective, the intent is to make the Sage/Sorcerer healer have to chose between using all that utility or keeping force points high; thus opening the door for tech healers to capitalize on their energy efficiency.*
But the tech healers have less to bring to the table, specifically due to the handful of abilities.
It's why I was really hoping for some more in-depth mechanical changes to the tech healers; specifically the introduction of ability synergy/combination. How much more interesting would a 3-ability healer be if each of those abilities combined in different ways?
For example: RuQu has 3 main abilities A, B, and C. A is a long, big direct heal, B is a HoT that confers a small damage mitigation buff, and C is an AoE similar to the pre-1.2 Operative/Scoundrel ability. RuQu also has secondary ability D, a free, small heal that is similar to Hammer Shots/Diagnostic Scan etc. to help with Energy/Heat/Ammo regen. All abilities are instant.
Each main ability leaves a short (2.5s - or not more than 1.5 GCD) buff on the target that allows for a subsequent heal on the same target to act as a modifier; this also serves as a balance mechanism, forcing the player to chain cast the large abilities to activate the combos.
So, when RuQu casts:
A+B - the damage mitigation buff conferred by B is consumed and amplified into a shield that blocks all incoming damage for 4s.
B+A - the healing done by the HoT conferred by B is doubled for it's duration.
A+C - the target cap on the AoE is doubled to 8.
C+A - the HoT conferred by C is consumed; all targets affected by C are healed for the sum of the HoT.
C+B+A - the damage mitigation buff is consumed, and is amplified into an AoE Shield (similar to Sniper Shield) that mitigates X% of incoming damage for Y seconds. (The balance behind this is that casting all 3 abilities in a row would drop the healer to a low tier of energy regen).
*See Spoiler for Aside:
As an aside, I think if the target cap had been removed on Operative/Scoundrel & Mercenary/Commando AoE, I think we'd be seeing relative parity between the classes; groups would be making a dynamic choice between bringing Sorcerer/Sage healers for all their utility but their lack of endurance in situations requiring that utility vs. bringing a second tech healer. It's interesting just how much making resource management more difficult for Sorcerer/Sage affects everything we've been talking about prior to 1.2
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Hi everyone,
Thank you for keeping this discussion constructive and helpful. We love to see threads like this and appreciate the effort you've all put into this community!
Just wanted to say, we really appreciate it!
Hey, we're a class act here; you've just got to stop hanging out in the PvP forums!
Oh, and let us balance the game instead if the PvPers, that's the other thing you u have to do.
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I disagree with this a little. In other games, healers "manage resources", by alternating periods of activity and rest, as opposed to nothing but a game of maxing HPS and actions per GCD's. Usually healing is about triage, who to heal, how much, and most important, when, because you only need enough health to survive the encounter.
But when people focus too much on healing meters (conveniently displayed at the end of warzone matches), people tend to start thinking of performance the wrong way.
Imagine, for example, a group with 4 players with 3500 health. You have a choice to heal all 4 players for 1000 health each or one player for 3000. If you only care about maximizing HPS, you choose the area heal. Thing is, if 3000 health gone means the single player will die on the next hit, and of course assuming the others wouldn't die, you may have chosen to do the wrong thing, thinking like DPS*, not like a healer. Of course, sometimes it is better to save the group than one person who's sure to die anyway. Healing isn't as binary a choice as some make it out--yes, players either live or they die, but sometimes how that affects the strategic objective of the group depends on which player and when.
If things are in general tuned to require nothing but non-stop healing whack-a-mole, to never give you such choices to rest and triage, then I think they are tuned incorrectly.
I haven't done NMM's, so I can believe you if you say the tuning is at that level, but I have done nighmarish HMs (featuring the sort of people who inspire threads like "50 things your healer won't tell you"). There's generally some room to rest, wouldn't swear its 2 to 3 GCD's, but I know resting plays a role.
*off topic, but I do realize DPS is not so simplistic either--sometimes it is better to take out a single target, than mazixmize your total damage per atatck. Say, killing a healer, rather than throwing down a big area attack that puts up fat numbers, but doesn't end up killing any of the enemies.
TLDR: Healing should never be just about maxizming HPS per GCD's. If it is designed to be that way, the design is wrong. Rest should form part of the strategy, because that allows players time to think about which targets to heal, and for how much.
The only difference here is small group size for "raid" content. In current content, the 2 healers that run with an 8-man are likely to always have healing targets; there's enough AoE and secondary damage going around as to make resting unfeasible.
Honestly, I think the small group sizes are causing most of the issues. In a 40-man raid, the shear volume of players covered the flaws; but as group size shrinks, each player needs to be able to give 100%.
And that means each class has to be designed flawlessly. It makes Georg's "within 5% effectiveness" target far too large, as any noticeable difference is going to be non-negligible.
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When operatives were at the bottom no one cared about us - we had our jobs taken by sorcs before they saw how we were
Some gm came to me and offered me a spot in the guild since he heard I was a good healer. He then added I would have to re roll a sorc to get in
When I joined a flashpoint people would say uh can we do this with an operative?
It mad me mad and I geared up and now I can take on sorc and Mercs heal wise but guess what? The sorcs have a bug that allows every heal to get a crit bonus and speed up the heals - free bubble shields that are equiabable - unlimited force - super aoe heals
Now they are fixing the problems that should have never been there and I shouldn't be happy? Sorry bud but I'm happy now they have to play a real class and manage mana. I'm sorry they are crying that they have to l2p - look at the forums the only people who aren't lol'zing is sorcs
Shush you.
When Operative/Scoundrels were at the bottom, everyone who wasn't a troll was on our side.
If you don't want to be constructive, that's fine, go back to the PvP forums.
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First things first, whatever Community Rep reads through our threads, tell Georg thank you for hearing the message about the tone of his posts; is answer this week "sounded" much more "I'm talking with you" than "I'm talking down at you", and it makes a huge difference.
On to the meat!!
Sometimes it's hard to hear this, but the change to healers you're referring to was, quite simply, a result of them being too good. When one healer is close to target performance and the others aren't, it's natural to think that the logical course is to buff the underperformer and leave the over-performers alone.I'm of two minds here. I'm in full agreement with the core message: "Sometimes "nerfs" are necessary" (and no, that reason is never because of PvP whiners).
However that statement feels off in this context; I feel as if your benchmarks in this respect must be artificially low in order for Merc/Comm healing to be considered "above target".
After considerable testing, we're more confident than ever that all healing roles are both closer to target performance and closer to one another than ever before, leading to a much tighter balance on end game content.RuQu already touched on how helpful transparency would be for you in this situation (if not all situations), so I'll aim in a different direction.
I agree with your general message regarding combat inflation, but by your own statements, you're balancing healing in TOR to the lowest common denominator, and I'm frankly baffled as to why.
Take Tech-Healers as an example: It's very clear that you want both Merc/Comm and Op/Sc healers using their "basic" healing ability (Hammershots/Diagnostic Scan etc.) more regularly. Why? This makes very little sense from a design standpoint as these abilities can only be used when healing isn't currently needed.
The only sense I can make of it is that it's a DPS player's approach to healing, insofar as DPS will typically use their free "auto-attack" ability as filler to let resource regen run.
But it's poor healing design. Where a DPS can rest on his laurels for 2-3 GCDs, in all but the very best groups (both gear and skill) a healer is unlikely to have that luxury.
You likely won't care that it's 'for the greater good of the game' and, if you decide to disagree with our action, there's little we can do to sway you.
Dammit, you'd been doing so good at not being condescending. SO CLOSE.
So lets iron this out right here: Every sentence I've written on these forums (save the 20 or so where I've been actively trolling) has been for the good of the game.
Every single recommendation. Every discussion. Every disagreement.
I want nothing more than to see this game succeed. And while you've got a lot of "catch-up" work cut out for you, I think 1.2 shows that you're almost up to the task.
But honestly, and I say this for the good of the game, you have got to do something different with healing.
I don't know who dreamed up the current system, but it is flawed, deeply so, in it's simplicity and low potency; the person currently running the show on healing needs to take a backseat (if that's you, sorry, but you're evidently not a healer). The person driving the healing system in the game needs to be a healer; someone who understand our motivations and needs.
See, the enjoyment factor for a healer is very binary: Fun when we can keep people alive, not fun when we cannot.
That's why fun healing classes in other MMOs (and the Sorcerer/Sage to a lesser extent) have a diverse set of tools and mechanics to work with; the skill of the player is in knowing what to use and when.
But your system - especially with the 1.2 changes - doesn't do this. Your system doesn't ask healers to make any choices; your design for healing has us watching bars and deciding whether or not to dump our resources or keep hitting the same 3 - 4 buttons in a row over and over.
Op/Sc healers were already strictly in the 3 button healing boat before hand, but by increasing the resource penalty on the other classes, you've now made healing an exceptionally boring task. No amount of encounter mechanics is going to change that.
TL;DR It's good that you're demonstrating that you are hearing the outcry, but it's time to step up to the plate and do something more imaginative with healing.
Also:
This is the healing forum, not the PvP forum. We stick together and try to help eachother. Some dude created a thread where he gloated over sorc nerfs and he got shot down by everyone in a matter of minutes. When operatives was the worst healer all the healing classes pushed for operative buffs. Now that mercs got hit by the bat you can expect the same support happening to them.I'd like to see Maras creating threads where they wish for dps buffs to other classes, that would be the day..
QFT. We stand united. This makes my day.
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Remember all the hope we had we RuQu started this thread? Our enthusiasm? Our spirit?
I miss those days.
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This entire post so COMPLETELY misses my point, I wonder if you even read it? Because all I see is more Chicken Little antics.
To that extent, I wonder if you noticed that I initially made this post over a month ago to warn of the need for serious changes to the Operative/Scoundrel class.
Specifically, I was calling for the devs to take notice of something they'd yet to acknowledge - the significant imbalance in healing classes, specifically the Operative/Scoundrel - as real life trends (cobbled together from admittedly anecdotal accounts) of excluding non-Sorcerer/Sage healers were already beginning to mount.
What you chalk up as "Chicken Little-ing" on my part, as it relates to the game pre-1.2, is therefore incorrect: The sky was falling on the Operative/Scoundrel healers; the sun was setting may be a more apt metaphor.
I get that, in the ~ month since my OP, the Devs have acknowledged this issue and taken (what they believe to be) steps towards correcting this issue; to that extent, the literal meaning of my earliest comments and the title of this thread are now inapplicable.
But the message of my OP is still applicable, perhaps now more broadly. Given the opportunity, I might re-title this thread "Devs, you're missing your window to save healing". (See RuQu's post on "balance through simplification" for why I feel Bioware is taking the wrong approach.)
The problem pre-1.2 is that healing was in poor shape. The only class that was well designed was Sorcerer/Sage, and even then, it is significantly less complex than most other MMO healers. Commando/Mercenary and Operative/Scoundrel healing was completely barebones.
What Bioware needed to do was introduce a complete overhaul; instead they've nerfed.
It's a patch-fix (perhaps appropriate for a patch), but if healing mechanics were boats, the hole in TOR's healing is Iceberg-magnitude; you can't just patch over it and expect it to stay afloat.
See, Bioware drew in several different crowds with TOR: among those crowds are people with varying levels of MMO experience. From my time spend in these threads, I can tell you that most of the people upset about this issue are experienced healers; people who have played healers in other MMOs (I include myself in this group).
The reason we're upset/leaving is because TOR healing is a step backwards from almost any other MMO. It's boring. It's not fun. It's not rewarding.
We were already suffering through a sub-par system before the 1.2 nerfs were announced; can you really blame us for not wanting to stick around any longer?
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I'm not a healer, so the healing classes are better off without my testing.
But you know what you aren't? A person who has any concept of your own failings.
You, not a healer, feel as if your opinions on the issue you have no experience with - healing - are some how superior to those of us who have played the classes and subsequently dedicated ourselves to bringing this issue to the attention of those who can fix things.
Allow me to correct your failings: you know nothing.
We are no chicken littles, butthurt over our inability to play the game.
We are skilled and capable players who have suffered through Bioware's lack of design regarding healing.
We are those who see the writing on the wall: we understand the importance of healing in MMOs, and thus the dire ramifications of Bioware's inability to balance these classes without nerfing them into trite simplicity.
We're not trying to attack "your" game because it's fun; we're trying to save this game from its own shortsighted designs. By making healing more difficult and less fun, healers will leave. You think it's difficult to find good healers now? Wait til 1.2.
See, those of us who are good? We want to be challenged not by impotence, but by complexity. Bioware's approach to challenge is the opposite.
So healers will leave. The good ones. The ones you want to run with.
But hey, I hope you have fun playing all the endgame content when you can't find a healer to save your life, since you'd run us all out with pitchforks for wanting something more than 3-button healing.
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Example: A friend and I both played healers in WoW. He used a Pally and I used a Shaman. According to the people we played with they never really noticed a difference if we switched assignments. And, like most healers, I played more than one healing class. If I jumped over to a pally, I could do a decent job of healing but, it wasn't as comfortable for me and I wasn't nearly as effective as my friend. As far as I am concerned that is balance. It means we start looking for the best player and not the best class.
The truth.
Dear OP,
I like the direction you're thinking in, but not the results.
I think you're headed in the wrong direction with your niches - putting the emphasis on the type of healing exacerbates the problems.
I think the focus needs to be on playstyle, not healing type. I have some ideas about this, but I'm feeling distracted right now; I'll come back later and we'll pow-wow?
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Don't forget the fact that our "best" defensive cooldown turns us into a paperweight for 10s.
And that the talent that would fix that is 20 points up the DPS tree.
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Haha, this made my day.
I'm glad I got a smile out of you on your last day.
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To be fair, 500k is not that hard to pull off. The only reason why I don't hit +500k in every WZ I play is that people within my healing range does not take enough damage or there are other healers on the team. In a full-lenght Voidstar assuming being the only healer on your team you should break somewhere between 600-700k if you got the gear. This is ofc hard to prove but if it matters (which it don't) I have several SS:s in the 600-700k range. I do have a few PvP-movies I made to show some of the advantages we have over other healing classes:is my most recent.
My statement does not equal "I think operatives are fine", especially in PvE the shortcomings are embarassingly obvious. I do believe that in our current state our PvP capabilities are on par if not slightly above mercs and sorcs (if you ignore the huttball scoring **** which has nothing to do with actual PvP).
I agree. My point wasn't that it cannot be accomplished, or even regularly; it's that it's never "easy".
The biggest problem with our class in PvP - imo - is that we're so dependent on KI/UWM; interrupt that, and we can easily get stuck in a place where we can just stand there and watch health bars bottom out.
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*snip*QUOTE]
Nothing to disagree with there, I just hope they don't expect me to keep paying while they dream up ways to make the game actually interesting.
Funny catch-22 with that strategy huh? You have to have money to fund the development of interesting tools and mechanics in the future; you have to have a interesting tools and mechanics to keep people playing to fund the development.
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Dear OP,
You rang?
I call BS on your Operative needs saving.
Let's dance mother****er.
Its fine as it is, PvP it can do 500k easily
False. The Operative/Scoundrel can never do something easily. That 500k (which I doubt you see regularly, but you know, go ahead and prove me wrong with evidence) you saw was the result of some poor Op/Scoundrel working his/her fingers to the bone, and even then marveling at how they should have played the lottery with all of the RNG luck they had.
it got defensive capability such as:Really? This should be a treat.
- Shield (for Range attacks and another for absorb)
Both of which, combined, are less powerful than the Sorcerer/Sage shield.
- Flashbang
- Melee Stun
- Stealth
- The melee range slow.
Irrelevant; all of the classes have similar abilities, save stealth, which is worthless for healing.
And you need more buffs?
No, I need fixes. Something to make this class competitive.
Furthermore, grammar lesson: "More" assumes we've ever had any previously. We've not.
On Operations a team of Sorc/Sorc is not as good as an Sorc/Op or a Trooper/Op
False. A well-played Sorc/Sorc team will literally out perform every other combo. Anything you may have observed different is anecdotal evidence of player skill, not class balance.
as an operative I seen them do 4k heals bursts quite easily and often than I do a Sith Sorc bringing 6k heals (which is like 1 every 3 other heals).
This statement makes no sense. Both classes can have the same crit rate. Again, anything you have observed different is anecdotal evidence that an RNG is in fact random.
Clearly you are having issues playing the game, if you want to reroll Sith Sorc go right ahead, and watch you get steamrolled by every class since you have no emergency boost heal spam to rely on, you are going to get your *** handed every Rated WZ.
Talk is cheap. And I, true to my sig, have unsubscribed.
The most telling thing about this statement is that your a PvP kiddie with the mentality of a 12 year old. Sorry child, this is an adult discussion, why don't you go play with your big DPS numbers up in your room.
Meanwhile my Operative is going to go fine on Rated WZ, and I'm going to have fun.
Hey, if you like playing a subpar class who am I to tell you to stop.
PS. If you cant pull a 500k heals per average in a WZ its your skills that suck, not that the class is broken. I seen screenshots of Operatives doing 500k easily and often.
Pics or it didn't happen. Also note, I care less about warzones than I care about your nonsense, so your pics still wouldn't make me give a ****.
This is a broken class. It brings a whole new sense of irony to "3-button" healing; I'm pretty sure you could literally faceroll and get the same results, not because it's easy, but because there's nothing else to do.
It boring basic and broken. If you like it, it's yours, take it.
Me, my $15/mo. is going to be spend on a product where the developer takes the time to actually develop, rather than play Spreadsheet: The Reckoning.
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I love you.
Seriously, from the bottom of my heart.
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Would we get different results if we charged?
Perhaps we should form a consulting agency.
HEALS Inc. - handling the critical part of MMOs you think no one likes since 2012!
(get it it's a pun!)
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All I can really say in defense of their model is that I believe they're keeping things simple on purpose and plan to gradually scale up to something more complex.
There's nothing defensible about this "strategy"; at it's best it's laziness, at worst it's uninspired and unimaginative thinking from those creatively in-charge of the game.
That aside, I am very interested to hear about how the new Ops is; it will be interesting to know if they've (once again) designed it around Sorcerer/Sage healing.
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I've repeatedly heard/read GZ say "I'm working on a design document (maybe it was proposal or plan instead of document) to address that." So, presumably there IS a design plan somewhere.
Perhaps they lost it.
Yeah, post-release seems like the time I would start working on a design document for my healing classes.
I mean, honestly, it's not that hard
Commando/Mercenary
A high-output, high-sustainability healing class, with high single target burst potential and low-middling utility. Can switch "stances" to heal multiple targets, though at significantly reduced efficiency.
Operative/Scoundrel
A middling-output, multi-target healing class, with the bulk of it's healing focused on healing multiple targets over time. Uses abilities that modify or consume "base" HoT abilities to increase output to both single and multiple targets, requiring anticipation/preparation.
Sage/Socerer
A low-output, high utility class, with focuses on synergy between direct and indirect healing abilities. Capable of chaining together "healing combos" to increase output in an uninterrupted chain (thus utilizing large resource pool).
Da-DAA! I did it. I just invented 3 classes with unique mechanics which can be exploited to achieve similar results. Sure, translating that concept into a game system would be challenging, but it's a task I believe GZ - who is an engineer at heart if I've ever met one - would excel at.
If only GZ had a place where people dreamed and imagined new concepts for him, free of charge.
Oh wait, that's right he does, and he instead prefers to belittle and demean us. Neat.
Healer Request Compilation
in Combat Styles
Posted
This is by design: the PvP developers are from Mythic and they don't like pure healing in PvP; so don't be expecting that to change anytime soon.
They're design philosophy seems to be "A healer ought to be able to temporarily slow a team member's violent death." Thus they debuff all healing by 30% and are nerfing healers ability to heal and remain resource neutral.
Wouldn't really expect that to change.