Balor
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Posts posted by Balor
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Thanks for summarizing
I just stated opinions that have already been proven incorrect 20 pages ago. I can't deny anything.
Fixt for accuracy
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I agree that Charge has advantages over Grapple if you include resolve and the CD so you definitely have a point. I was only commenting on whether or not Grapple is a gap closer and the way it works. Pulling your opponent into your own group certainly has benefits over Charging in a group of opponents, that's all that I am saying.
I don't get what you are saying... Are you talking about Huttball?
"at times" says it all
Fun fact: Operatives have less 30m range abilities, which generally don't hit nearly as hard as a Powertech's. Also their main damage ability is on a 12s cooldown and requires close to melee range, has a positional requirement and does less damage than Rail Shot.
Overall they do less burst dmg, MUCH less sustained dmg than PTs and they have to be in melee range constantly, while also being squishier than PTs. Also they don't have a gap closer
If you think Operatives are squishier then Powertechs, you already made yourself look stupid. It is 100x easier to get Immortal as a conceal operative (even easier as healer), then it is as any spec of PT/VG
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Pretty sad this is going on. Lets recap so there is no confusion, but in the most general terms.
OP says: " X is too high", provides only 1 log containing 1 fight (which could be edited, he coulda been in PVE gear, or Pyro had ALL cds popped)
Billy responds: " X is not too high, it is only high because A,B, and C are lower then normal." Evidence is presented negating OP's argument, and disproving such.
Joe responds supporting the OP: " X is too high" , providing no proof, no logs, no evidence what-so-ever. Joe is Blinded by how horrible he is in PVP as he states nothing has been proven otherwise.
James responds to Joe: "X is not too high, Billy has already shown you, in detail and with evidence, why it is not. Why can't you see that?" and provides further evidence
More followers of the OP and horribad PVPers (so bad they would ragequit playing My Little Pony online) respond as if no evidence has been presented, and still fail to present any evidence of their own.
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Taking the dot off does what it is supposed to do. Make the pt/vg use more ammo/gain more heat. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best. Please re-read and understand, if your eyes can not move back, I will say it again... A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best.
What I want to know, is why isn't the pt/vg cc'd the majority of the time when he pops all of his powerups? Without those powerups, his damage goes down 20-30%.
I don't think he can read, he just copy and pasted his same post again. Young-lings will be Young-lings after all
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Again your missing the point - your dot has no cd, dispel does. Your resources are irrelevant you can regen from empty to full in, what?, 10 secs?
If i dispell a scoundrel snare its gone for 12 secs. If i dispel a sentinels Overload Saber i dont have to deal with it again for 12 secs. If i dispel mind crush its gone for 15 secs etc etc etc - THESE are counters.
If i dispel a Pyro dot / snare (I despise your snare), its reapplied a global later and i eat 5k damage from rail shot quickly followed by your sticky grenade thing and i say goodbye to half of my health, another dps so much as looks at me in that 2 global space of time i die, you regen your resource and i sit in the ress zone for 20 secs.
Lets say for arguments sake that its a group fight and your stuck auto attacking for a couple of globals to regen resources. It costs you a few secs during which you can carry a huttball, pull a ball carrier into a fire, cap a node, defuse a bomb or interrupt a cap.
Being resource starved for a few secs doesn't justify being able to kill someone as quickly as a pyro can.
And scoundrel is worse in pve and has been nerfed twice despite that.
Takes longer then that to regen if we have to reapply the DoT. If you think your dispel has that long of a CD you obviously don't even play.
Ravage allowed to go full duration will take more then 1/2 your heatlh. That is technically less time.
Deception assassin critting shock and discharge will take 1/2 your health.
Operative critting Hidden strike and Backstab and shiv will probably take 1/2 your health
Sniper critting explosive prob and ambush will take half your health (even more since follow thru is insta)
Merc casting 3 TMs and a Heat seeker will take half your health. Especially if HS crits.
so it's not okay for a Powertech taking half your health when critting Thermal det and Railshot? (there had to be a DoT on to use railshot so you already forgot 1 damaging ability you were already hit with)
Need I go on??
Learn
2
Play
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Congratulations for inventing a word like "horribad" and then give an example of what it means straight away (like assuming Expertise will affect the calculation when the opponent is equally geared. You understand the game well).
Welcome to 1.2. You just made yourself look even more dumb.
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Putting words in my mouth to make a strawman argument does not help your point. I have a vanguard, I know the mechanics. You're taking stuff completely out of context and creating something that simply isn't there to argue against. I can't tell if you're a troll or really just that stupid and failed every reading comprehension test you've ever taken.
Didn't put any words in your mouth, learn to read what you write perhaps?
As for knowing the mechanics, obviously not.
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A fully geared raiding sorcerer, hits an unmitigating boss for a maximum of 1500 dps in the relic+adrenal burst session (assuming half campaign/half rakata). Since the pvp gear is a bit underpowered (half war hero/half battlemaster), scale it down to 1400 dps (I'm being generous).
10x1400 = 14000. No one who's equipped in even only full BM has 14k HP.
If you don't know the game, then don't talk. Its even NOT theoretically possible, mr troll.
just because you're horribad, doesn't mean everyone else is
(you also forgot to add expertise into your calculations)
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People say a class is OP, all the defenders say that they should post logs.
Some1 post logs, you say we dont have utility, defense, blablablabla.
There is absolutely no point in posting to the forums. Let the kids play OP classes, and while the BM items are RIDICULUSLY easy to gear, save yourself the trouble, play multiple classes to be able to withstand the RIDICULOUS nerfs that some classes have got/will get with patches.
Biochem OP posts, don't make me laugh. Only marauders, juggernauts and powertechs can kill people in under 10 seconds with Biochem adrenals and buffs. If Biochem is so OP, how come a sorcerer or an arsenal merc cannot kill you in under EVEN 15 seconds??? There's definitely something wrong here isn't it???
Noone has posted unedited logs, or logs that wasn't from 1 (ONE) fight.
Biochem, with or without, any class can kill you in under 10 seconds if :::
YOU DO NOT TARGET AND ATTACK THEM / DO NOT RECEIVE HEALS
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When I talk about a Pyro PT's mobility, I'm talking about being able to move. Like moving from place to place, being able to LOS, anti-kiting, positioning, the mobility that melee always talks about. Did Pyro PTs somehow become considered ranged classes in the past 5 min and the meaning changed to being able to cast on the move? You took something completely the wrong way and used it to ignore the post. The only thing you even countered with still doesn't change that heavy armor and a 25% reduction is as much as other classes get for defense during assist trains, you're not frail flowers out there. Just because marauders and tankassins are ridiculous doesn't make yours bad compared to the rest of us.
You don't think they are ranged? = LOL #1
You don't think they are mobile? = LOL #2
You think heavy armor adds a lot = LOL #3
You think PT/VGs have abilities in their rotation that requires still casting = LOL #4
I could go on and on, but really you need to take a step back from the forums, maybe learn what class you are talking about ffs..... this is just pitiful. Since you OBVIOUSLY do not play the class, either roll one, or at least jump on http://www.torhead.com and do some research before jumping into a thread about a class you know NOTHING about and acting like you have some doctorate on the subject
You can keep coming in here claiming that you are okay with some nerf to this but keep everything else the same or add a little more survivability but nerf burst, but don't play the class and don't know how that would break the spec. Besides, it isn't going to get nerfed, hate to burst the bubble here yet again, it really isn't. Because, now here is the kicker, it isn't (key work isn't) overpowered. If that can be proven in something like a thread, obviously there isn't even a need for BW to look at metrics
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Actually yes, the pyro does put out more damage than any other AC. There has been no evidence provided to counter this assertion, just the opinions of the feeble minded. Nothing has been proven, on either side of the argument.
I know education is this country (I am assuming you are American) is terrible, but your syntax is awful. Half of what you wrote doesn't even make sense grammatically. Usually I don't get on people for their poor writing, but when they make ******* comments like L2Read I make an exception.
Learn to read, play, and all the above.
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"Again you say the burst is insane, but in the end are just repeating what other QQers have said in this thread which have already been PROVEN wrong."
That's what you said, implying that PT doing insane burst has been PROVEN wrong, which is possibly the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum.
Of course, that may not be what you were attempting to say, in which case, learn to write.
It is what I said, no attempt required.
If you let any class, any AC, in dps spec sit there and do their rotation they are going to melt and burst you down just as fast (newsflash, pyro isnt the fastest). Therefore, if all DPS classes are doing "Insane" damage, it no longer then can be labeled as "insane", and when asking for nerfs needed "all dps specs in game" would have to in place of just "pyro". When said justification and explanation for said nerfs were shot down by the very simple counters as evidence, that can also be stated said QQers were in fact "proven wrong"
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PROVEN wrong?
what has been PROVEN wrong that he said? And what was the proof?
Edit: I want to clarify something. I don't think PT need a nerf. I think balance is actually really good right now. I think its Ridiculous that PTs cry about other classes being OPed though.
L2Read.
EX: Dispell
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People keep saying that pyro PTs have horrible utility and horrible defense. You do not. You have horrible mobility. You have meh defense with heavy armor (yes it matters) and the 25% shield on a short cd. The ability to survive assist trains matters in organized matches and you can live longer than some other classes. So what you won't get away from a melee train, neither will any other class against a decent team. Sure, you don't have the defensive CDs of marauders or tankassins but everyone knows they're ridiculous.
You have good utility with aoe and single taunts (great), aoe stun (ok), ranged stun (great), ranged slow (good), short interrupt (good), guard in emergencies (good) and pull (amazing). If you don't know how to properly leverage your utility within a team, the problem is on your end.
PTs keep justifying your ridiculous burst by comparing your relative (your utility is actually good) weaknesses to 2 other OP classes. It was OP before 1.2 and with healing screwed over and TTK down it's even worse after. Your dps needs to be toned down and you need a small mobility buff.
You already made yourself look stupid and your argument moot when you said our mobility is low. We have the highest mobility out of ANY ranged class. lol....
Also the shield is not on short CD and 25% for the little duration is not much. Heavy armor gives like a COUPLE % diff in PVP compared to medium... you fail again......Again you say the burst is insane, but in the end are just repeating what other QQers have said in this thread which have already been PROVEN wrong.
You made a long post but in reality is just says "I need to L2P"
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You misunderstand - im not saying they should remove the cd on dispel, I'm saying its a ******** 'counter' to pyros - its a minor annoyance, not a counter.
and you're missing the point about the point made by you. You acted like they can constantly re apply the DoT, like they have infinite resources. So in fact dispell IS A COUNTER!!! Pyro is the MOST resource (heat/ammo) starved spec IN THE GAME, therefore dispell is an even bigger COUNTER to pyro then ANY other spec in game. Period.
Another reason why you won't see Pyro nerfed is because, ask anyone that does the real end game PVE, ALL specs of Powertech and Vanguard are at the bottom of the barrel in ALL categories
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Irrelevant tbh, they apply it much faster than anyone can remove it. Dispel would be a good and fair counter to pyro's if it had no cd - it does, it just means it'll take him a global longer to kill you.
Yea pyro has infinite resources, can summon shiva, have an ability that deletes your character.
I want dispell to have no CD, and a toggle, so it just auto dispells everything on me. I also want a 80% defense buff perma, and heavy armor because I am only wearing medium, and in PVP the difference between medium and heavy is 1000000000%
I can do it too see ^
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Guess the powers that be don't want me to troll my own thread. Therefore, a couple of final points before I let you all squabble amongst yourselves:
1. I can't remove tech dots from myself. So far as I know, only commandos and scoundrels can. This is the last time I'll repeat that.
2. Bad pyros easily get 200k damage in warzones (somebody else's admission in this very thread). Other baddies struggle to get 75-100k.
3. For everyone saying sages can easily kite good pyros... no, just no. Pyros can keep sages perma slowed. My slow is 6s on a 12s cd. My knockback is pitiful and is basically only good for knocking people off of the catwalks in huttball. Seriously, it's only like 2m. Force speed is ok, but this is usually countered by grapple. I'm getting away, I'm getting away, oh no I'm not.
I stand a fair chance if I have some corners and obstacles to LOS the pyro around, but out in the open I'm pretty much toast.Somebody else made the suggestion that I should use force lift on the pyro. It's a possibility, but it'll probably get interrupted. If I feign him with a heal first, I've already wasted a GCD, in which time he's done like another 5k damage to me already. Force stun is another possibility, but it only lasts for 4s and is on a 1m cd. Grapple pretty much counters force speed, and getting frozen in carbonite sucks when you only have a few seconds left to live. However, I reiterate that pyros are the only class that can burn me down in less than 10s. Every other DPS class takes at least twice as long 1v1.
I guess you guys think 25k damage in 9s is pretty much "balanced" compared to other classes. I don't know how to convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to try any longer.
Again, you are bashing your head against the wall like noone here has shown you evidence otherwise. Just because YOU cannot dispell their DoTs does NOT make them overpowered.... half the people in the game that CAN dispell their DoTs do NOT for goodness sakes....
If you dispell their DoTs they are gimped, not only resource choked (heat/ammo) but also cannot output damage.
By your logic, one could say all damage needs to be nerfed because the sorc/sage on your team didnt bubble you, you died and don't have a bubble of your own.
or that all non weapon damage should be nerfed because your deflection doesnt block it...
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It's easy to say this. But that doesn't change the fact that there are serious balancing issues in this game.
If you took a merc/commando dps and pitted him against an equally geared and equally skilled PT/Vanguard -- if they dueled 100 times the PT/Vanguard would win 100 times and no fights would be close. That's just the reality of it. It has nothing to do with buffs, stims, adrenals, procs, crits, etc.
Now you can say that 1 v 1 in this game doesn't matter and that it's team and objective based PVP. And I 100% agree and that's all fine and dandy. But if a PT/Vanguard focuses on a merc/commando (which the good ones on my server say they purposely do), it's game over very quickly.
It's easy to say "nerf class A" or "class B is over-powered" and it's easy to respond by saying "L2P" and "you are bad". It'll be the age old pvp tug-of-war. But try to play a class in this game with weak defensive cooldowns and very little utility.
I can say the same thing about other classes winning in 1v1 against a powertech, so your argument is very moot. I am sure you play a merc/commando, and that you get creamed by some good powertech/vanguards. Big Deal. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed. You probably play arsenal, and expect to have an easy win against a class that has 2 stuns, and interupt, and equal amount of def cooldowns. Sitting there spamming tracer is NOT the answer.... FYI
Merc/Commando is also the EASIEST class in the game atm to get the 5k dmg medal. There are a lot of players that will flock to the class that can hit the hardest in 1 hit, try and remember that...
What usually happens is again.... people DON'T target the PT/VG and leave him till last... for whatever reason, maybe it's the possibility in their mind they might be tank spec and don't want to have to switch targets based on chance. So they will go for the Marauder/Sent/Sorc/Sage first, and any healer. Whilst the powertech is able to unleash his RESOURCE heavy abilities that are at the same time damage heavy (who woulda thought)
but since kids (not saying you are one), are very hard to prove wrong (in their minds), lets for argument sake say Powertechs/VGs pyro tree damage gets nerfed (because QQers in here say so), then we will demand 2 more def cooldowns,every ability gets it heat cost cut in half, and our GCD reduced, deal?
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We need PK,s
in PvP
I played both UO and Shadowbane myself, and PvPd hard in both, and this thread has brought back some excellent memories.The SWTOR community wouldn't know what to do with REAL PvP like those games had.
Mourning @ UDL
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Well according to Biowares shroom addict drunk numbers person they have 1m subs so there is no need for merges/xfers and cross queing can be implemented without haste.
Guess what guys, I can do what bioware does to 1000000 = 100000
Aren't I t3h smart3$t m@th person?!?
Biowares sub formula :
Subs = X(10)
where x = the amount of actual subs
I have a doctorate in Hallucinogenic Mathematics
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You have no idea what you are talking about.
PT/VG when they get 50 have a cd that gives them 25% crit, couple that with an adrenal, and a relic, that is a short time where burst is insane.
Ask yourself this, when can you use hib/rail? When the person is cc'd, but you gain 9% more damage if there is a fire dot on them. Incendiary round costs 1/4 action, that does a small amount of damage and puts a dot on you for 15 or 18 seconds(I can't remember and I am not going to look it up because that is besides the point). They can use this 30m on in. If you see that dot and clense it, you have a chance to avoid the hib/rail.
Wait, I haven't finished... Now they are going to reapply the dot, which costs another 1/4 action. They are now at 1/2 action and only getting 3/4 regen. Chances are they used TD, so they are inbetween 1/3 and 1/2 action at this time and most likely at 1/2 regen.
What happens if the next dot gets cleansed, by let's say a smart healer who notices dots, is good at their class... The pt/vg are going to get another dot on you and they are now rendered useless, unless they use their cd that gives them more action.
All of this has happened without the use of cc, kiting, knockbacks, snaring, running, rooting, etc. All of which can make this job 10x easier.
I believe that you may need to work on your class mechanics a bit and your situational awareness.
Exactly lol, I would actually feel ashamed if I was the OP/ said that PT/VG needs a nerf, very ashamed.
Even an unskilled operative healer can take 2 pyros at once. So can most healers.
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Yah ! The tactic tree has a weaker burst but does more substained dmg/aoe... It is also more difficult to play tactic. I am very bad with tactic but I do the same overall dmg as i do with assault/pyro. Plus i am tankier with tactic, more if i go ion cell (loss of 7-8% dps).
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So nerf 25% pt dmg but which spell ? All of them ? On my tooltip, my flame burst hit for 1k so it will hit for only 750 ? My RS will hit for 1400 instead o 1850 ? (i have 5 wh items, 500 power, 1600 aim).... WHat about merc ? How do you nerf PT without nerfing merc ? they have RS too. BTW, the pyro merc can dispell my dot/TD and kill me in 4 gcd at 30 meters away.
Ok I will play my sniper who does almost 3k with ambush (on tooltip, no crit, bad gear recruit, 1.5s cast if played properly). Why should i play my vanguard if a simple charged shot does more dmg ?
Immolate does great burst in tactics, do does flame burst when it crits, and rocket punch. You can also get Flame thrower/Pulse cannon to tick for 2k a pop AOE. Plus there are also a few hidden effects in the tree I'm not gonna relay. I find a lot of players doing tactics/AP feel compelled to use retractable blade a lot in a single fight, which is one reason why they fail so horribly.
Like I said timing, Wether it be thermal det or sticky dart, If you time railshot for when it explodes it is gonna look like (on their screen) that they were hit for some INSANE and unreasonable amount of damage, and most of these people in here don't look at combat logs, or post edited ones, or only post the 1/100th time they were debuffed to hell and the Pyro was buffed to hell and back.
Like I said, I have high doubts for any nerf, if anything tank trees across the board are going to get buffed (except shadow/sin).
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There sure are a lot of horrible players in this thread.
Just like Marauders, PTs go down very quick when you ACTUALLY target them!!! Lot of people don't get this.
I am sure this will change because I have enough faith, however small it is, in Bioware to go by evidence not forum QQ. Which will show they are NOT overpowered. So in turn people will learn the same thing they did for dealing with marauders, AKA Target and attack/CC them. Simple.
PTs only get 1 Def cooldown, 1. The HoT is so small I don't understand why it is an ability so its not counted. Guess what? As tank spec, they don't get anymore def cooldowns...
Shadow tanks technically get 4, and stealth.
The ONLY time Pyro is gonna do crazy total damage, which a lot of you scrubs seems to base your argument on, is when the opposite team has a lot of healing (/not a lot of dps and the pyro has healing). Want to know why? A lot of healers in this game are horrible, and don't cleanse friendlies, most of the time only themselves. Well the DoTs of pyro do good damage so, do the math.
Pyro and assault specialist, are THE MOST, resource starved specs in the game. So the few abilities the spec are based around (EX: TD and railshot) better damn well be major!!!
Evidence here people, evidence.
As for the burst.... well that is due to TIMING! and relic popping.
A Deception assassin can do it, a Arsenal merc can do it (which right now is the easiest class to get 5k dmg medal on with heatseekers FYI), a operative can do it, a sniper can do it, a marauder can do it, a jugg can do it... need I go on?
What most pyro players do not realize is that if they actually learned the in and outs of the middle tree (AP) they would find it is ACTUALLY more powerful. just like the shared tree of other tank specs, pyro is a 1/2 trick pony.
Your middle tree actually puts 10x the amount of pressure on the target, and does SERIOUS AOE damage (again if you learn how to play it), and can also reach the same DPS (if not more ) and same damage caused.
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To people saying they messed up by "caving in" and releasing too many servers:-
That is unfair since they responded to people complaining about queing for 45 mins and made servers bigger and released more servers inline with demand at the time. They were damned either way on that one. They have made mistakes sure since they are new to mmos, but server population problems are not new to this mmo alone.
They need to merge them now though, I agree with that. Don't want to see this game tank because for all its problems I still love it.
That is naive fanboy talk.
They made a horrible choice by making more servers. Noone demanded it or asked for it. We asked for LARGER server population caps. The population caps that were in place at launch and the ones that still exist are a JOKE (and even that is being nice) for ANY MMO.
If you take the budget the game had, and size of the companies involved, there is NO excuse as to why they did not have servers with the population caps similar to WoW, or any other mmo for that matter, even if they were fewer in total number.
Honestly, as much as they "claim" to have spent on the game (budget) I am willing to put major money on the table and stand by that a huge chunk if not half of that budget at least went into overpaying executives, or big-shot bonuses (being in the budget, just being a way to make them look better).
The fact that they still have NOT addressed ( quietly said they notice it but not fixing it) the issue of server transfers/merges, only shows further lack of their ability to learn from their mistakes, and show some sort of attachment to the life of this game. The only thing they are doing is tieing SWTOR to the trailer hitch, and dragging it into F2P land.
I stand a fair chance if I have some corners and obstacles to LOS the pyro around, but out in the open I'm pretty much toast.
Powertechs aren't OP
in PvP
Posted
Not going to happen. Derp
The only thing Bioware might do (with their lack of IQ reputation), is move the 60% ArP talent to Pyrotech, kinda like what they did to juggs with smash talent. In which case there will be no reason to play PT over merc and you will get unsubs/rerolls. Knockbacks and heals ladies, knockbacks and heals.
(Interesting considering there are already more mercs then there are PTs) probably because PTs are low on PVE totem pole.