RagnarokJC
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Posts posted by RagnarokJC
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Well even if they wanted to make a movie out of KOTOR, they couldn't because Lucas called it quits on movies...among other things.
Turn that frown upside down. It could have been worse: Lucas could have actually made more films.
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This post keeps turning into a rant, so I'll try to summarize very quickly...
SWG was originally a sandbox game.
It also had a lot of issues, and eventually only people who were playing it were (a) people who really liked the sandbox, (b) people who only played because all their friends were also playing, and © people who only played because it was the only Star Wars MMO available.
(That's a sweeping generalization, of course, but it seemed that way to me...)
Some executives then looked at how WoW was doing, asked themselves why a game with the Star Wars license wasn't doing that well, and they decided that something had to be done.
(Insert quote: Something must be done. This is something, therefore we must do it.)
Deciding that sandbox games were a small niche market, they apparently decided to throw away their existing, small customer base, in favor of attracting a new, larger customer base.
So, overnight, they turned the sandbox game into a WoW clone, removing all the critical sandbox elements. Pretty much everyone in customer group (a) left almost immediately, myself among them, holding bitter grudges against SOE to this day, and suffering twinges of painful nostalgia whenever we see a thread like this one.
Unfortunately, the game overhaul was quite incredibly shoddy in ways that almost defy belief. One quick example - The Jump Key. Originally, there was no jump key, the game not being Mario. But players like to jump, right? So they made the spacebar move the character up and down. This served no purpose whatsoever, and it still worked when you were dead. They Just Didn't Care indeed.
And so, the massive influx of players they were hoping for never happened, or at least it didn't for a long time. Instead, they articles appeared in the New York Times about what a poorly thought-out disaster it had been, and hopefully, at least by now, the industry might just have learned a very important lesson.
Perhaps not well enough, but we shall see...
Well said, as this pretty much summed up what the hell the execs at SOE (and Mr Smedley) were thinking, if you could call it that. They decided that a few hundred thousand subscribers weren't enough and tried to steal market share from Blizzard by remaking their MMO into "WoW in space". If it weren't for their stupidity, SWG would still be around today as a good niche game, much like EVE Online.
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It wasn't as bad as people made it out to be, at first? Ya ok I can go with it being bad. But over time when more and more content was introduced it became a nice playable game, not like it once was but it kept those who sill played happy. Those that left never gave it a chance, or did then left but never bothered to check up on all the updates and everything afterwards. But those that stayed, enjoyed it for what it is.
Yeah, all 5 of them had a blast playing on near-empty servers. The NGE basically killed SWG, even though it took a few years to finally lie down and die.
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'Tis true that you're like a dog with a bone, then...
No, it's more like a dog with a litter of puppies...
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Belated Media put up a very good video on How Episode 1 Should Have Been:
We can dream...
We can also use the Search function to avoid creating a thread about something that's already been discussed. It won't bite you, I promise.
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Hahaha...today my daughter was watching Star Wars with our 2 year old son. At one point he yelled "Airplane!"
She replied "Almost! Say 'Millennium Falcon'!"
"Mennium Fackin!"
I love these little geeks.
Heh, the Force is strong in those two...
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Should one subscribe to them, true.
No, I mean it as a general statement. For example, the viewpoint of the average 10-year-old child wouldn't and generally shouldn't be held in the same regard as that of the average 30-year-old.
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*read my signature*
Some points of view hold more weight than others.
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Considering their titanic box office, I'd say it's George Lucas who had the last laugh!
Michael Bay is laughing too, considering how much the Transformers films have been dumped on by critics. That doesn't mean they're good films.
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I prefer the story of how Anakin became Darth Vader over the story of Han, Luke and Leia on their space quest. Those exposed to 4-6 at an early age do have a bias. It's probably rare to find someone like me that actually never paid attention to SW until recently and watch 1-6 for basically the first time and get their opinion.
Anyway I must not justify my opinion further, I will always remain young at heart and never "grow up". I will continue to prefer the action-filled 1-3.
You're honest about your opinion at least. Kudos to you.
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How were they more childish exactly?
Was it the graphic killings, the politics and senate hearings, or the all out war, not to mention killing children...
"Graphic killings"? Unless your standards for violence are those of a naive 8-year-old pacifist, the deaths in the PT films are about as "graphic" as those in your typical children's cartoon. If you want graphic violence, go watch Saving Private Ryan, Rambo, Collateral, or any one of a ton of action/war flicks.
Never mind it was because the originals were so much more mature with their teddy bears destroying and elite sabotage force to win the war, the seemingly impossible chance of any main character actually dieing to blaster fire ever and lets not forget the oh so loveable jawas.Main characters in many film franchises don't die, so what's your point? The Jawas appeared in less than 5 minutes of screentime in all of the OT films. I agree about the Ewoks, but we all know that Lucas had started to fully take over the creative process by the time RoTJ was made.
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Ya ok your using 2 main characters who are suppose to be complex, compared to characters who are not the main focus ya thats completely fair.
Let's look at Anakin and Obi-Wan, arguably the 2 "main" characters of the PT films:
Anakin is a little child who grows up to be a whiny teenager who is powerful in the Force. He is also an idiot, because he allows himself to be led around by the nose by the main bad guy over some promises. He likes his master but also hates his master, as this is apparently how "great friendships" work.
Obi-Wan is a whiny padawan who becomes a knight after killing the sith guy who killed his master. He trains Anakin only as a promise to his master, which showcases his ability to make a liar out of himself when it comes to what he tells Luke later in ANH. Obi-Wan can't train Anakin well enough because he's so annoyed with him all the time (I think), and then cuts off his arms and legs so that he can become Darth Vader. The end.
Now let's look at the villains:
Palpatine is an evil old man who likes to make plans that blow up in his face as part of some master plan to take over everything. He is able to take over everything because the Jedi are idiots. The end.
Count Dooku is a former Jedi who turned to evil for some reason that we're never told. He leads the Separatists, beats up Obi-Wan/Anakin the first time he runs into them, fights Yoda to a draw before running away, then gets his head cut off by Anakin in their next meeting.
General Grievous is a cowardly "Jedi killer" who collects lightsabers. He runs from Obi-Wan twice before getting killed when his inexplicably exposed inner organs are fried by a blaster.
Darth Maul is Darth Sidious' apprentice. He likes to stand with his arms crossed looking bad ***. He fights Qui Gonn and Obi-Wan; he kills the former before being inexplicably killed when he stares at Obi-Wan while he cuts him in half. The end.
I won't forget to mention that all the villains were made into expensive and cheap toys after their 5 seconds of screen time in the PT films.
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You realize you could do that with some of the OT characters too right?
Let's see, starting with the main villain in the OT films stayed on throughout all 3 films (Darth Vader). His motivations were explained (the Empire exists to impose order on the galaxy, but he wants to overthrow the Emperor and rule with his son as his apprentice), and he's fleshed out (his inner conflict that eventually leads to his redemption).
Let's look at the protagonist of the OT films (Luke Skywalker): we see his beginnings (a farm boy on a boondock planet who dreams of getting away by joining the Academy to be a pilot like his friend Biggs already did). Luke then begins his start as a Jedi through his meeting with Obi-Wan where he also learns about his father. He becomes a hero by blowing up the Death Star and starts off ESB as a ranking officer in the Rebel Alliance. He begins his Jedi training in earnest with Yoda, but rushes to save his friends from Vader and learns the hard way that he is not ready yet. He progresses further in his training by the time of RoTJ but has to face the ultimate trial by facing his father and the Emperor. Luke is able to help his father redeem himself by appealing to the good side of him in the nick of time, while his friends blow up the 2nd Death Star. He is able to see the ghost of his redeemed father, then rejoins his sister and friends as they face the universe following the fall of the Empire.
No, the characters in the PT films were nowhere near as complex as those in the OT films.
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Nothing to clarify, you read it correctly. I felt the characters in the prequels were more complex...so was the story. The only thing with the story is that the dialogue could have been written much better than it was. Luke's chapters were awesome, but basically good vs evil stories...very clear cut in plot. Anakin's chapters were amazing too, but they showed us more of the political end of it, and machinations of the various characters, whether Jedi, or Sith...everyone had an agenda, and it was interesting how those agendas affected each other and the overall plot. Say what you will about the movies, I for one, love them all, but the first are more complicated, as you see alot more unveiled about the universe at that time, then you do in Luke's era.
So you were serious when you said the characters in the prequel were more complex. You're free to have any opinion you like, of course, but it's hard to say that characters in the PT films were more complex when little backstory is shown on any of them. For example, here are some questions about General Grievous relating to his character that the PT films never answer:
1) Where did he come from?
2) Why did he decide to join the Separatist faction?
3) How did he rise to become a general?
4) Why does he hate Jedi so much?
5) How did he become a cyborg?
Another example is that aside from Yoda, Obi-Wan, Windu, and Anakin, none of the other Jedi are even referred to by name at any point in the films. Then there is the fact that the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan is never built up prior to AoTC. It's the details that make things complex, and the PT films have very little of them.
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I'm re-watching all 6, just finished 3 last night. I did this about a year ago and I liked 1-3 better than the dull, slow action 4-6.
I was never a fan growing up but I believe people who loved Star Wars as a child, thinking 4-6 would be the only movies, feel they're superior due to being a kid at the time. I was basically going through all of 1-6 as an adult for the first time and the older movies just felt slow and action-less. Anakin felt much more powerful in the first 3, so was everyone else. Watch Anakin swing a light saber in 4-6, he's like an old man. Sure, it was made in the 70s, maybe that's part of the problem.
It's odd how you bring up the idea that people liked the OT films more simply because they grew up with them while including the words I highlighted. This is because kids generally go for the action, explosions, and fancy effects over things like good story, dialogue, character development, etc. Try watching the films in 5+ years when you've had the chance to grow up, expand your horizons by watching good films, and finishing your formal education.
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The characters are far more complex in the prequel...Where I used to see Luke's jedis as heros, I see the truth of it more now, owing to the prequels. The jedi were manipulative and dark too in their own way. Look at how Anakin was treated...he did so much for them, and when he questioned their orders to spy on a friend, he was treated like an outcast. Funny how their dogma only applies when its for their good. I suppose its like history says...evil is a point of view, and whoever wins the war, writes the history. The republic is no better than the empire, they just won is all.
That highlighted part is weird to me, because it sounds like you're arguing that the characters of the prequels are more *complex*. Perhaps you made a typing error. Please clarify.
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I wasn't making an argument, genius. I was making fun of you for somehow thinking that your opinion is fact. Speaking of good ways to debate things, shouldn't you know the difference between opinion and fact and treat them both accordingly? And besides, using an appeal to emotion, even in a debate, is not always a bad thing.
Yes it is. I don't need to respect someone's opinion, though I respect their right to have one.
Making a blanketing statement that very strongly implies that anyone who thinks the prequel films are good has bad taste and implicitly states that anyone who thinks that the prequel films are good has worse taste than those who don't is a pretty silly thing to do. You can't "prove" that a movie isn't good. You might argue that a movie has a boring, confusing, unfocused, etc. plot, or that a movie has substandard acting, but some movies with bad acting are actually pretty good. Just look at some of Keanu Reeves' movies.Name some of Reeves' films- I know you'll start with The Matrix, to which I'll say "Meh, that film was average on its best day, then was followed by a couple of lousy follow-ups.".
Perhaps "poor taste" isn't the exact term. It might be more accurate to say "unrefined taste", because it's not a surprise to me that people who like the PT films either are mostly children or were children when they first saw them.
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The only merit the prequels have is that the Pinkett reviews were created because of them.
Good point- some of the most entertaining film reviews of all times have come from bad flicks.
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Congratulations on becoming Opinion Emperor of the Universe!! With your new position, you get to decide who has good opinions and who has bad opinions! The choice is solely yours and extends to every aspect of one's life. If someone disagrees with you, you are able to label them as stupid, tasteless morons, which will undoubtedly make you feel better about yourself as you reaffirm your own misguided opinions by bringing down the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you. I hope that you have a long and glorious reign as Opinion Emperor of the Universe, just remember that it's all in your mind.
Emo much? Appeals to emotion as an argument is never a good way to debate anything.
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But the ones that hate prequels usually either had the "pleasure" of seeing 4-6 first, or joined the band wagon that 4-6 is better and 1-3 is their guilty pleasure.
Or they're people who know what good films are. Don't leave that option out. Feel free to join those people by expanding your horizons a bit.
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For the people saying, "I wouldn't put it past him!" Get off your high horses. You people are what's ruining Star Wars. There could be more if it wasn't for you, but alas we who enjoy them are forced to suffer. So that you can feel like you have a higher taste. -_- Thanks....
If you think that the PT films are good films, then we do indeed have a higher taste than you. Thanks.
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Depends on the amount of money he could make of it. But seriously, if he hasn't alrdy thought of this stop giving him ideas. He's getting senile enough to just try this.
Lucas was out of touch with reality long before senility started to become any sort of factor.
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You know what sucks about your post the most. The person who wrote it, wrote very clear in detail critical points given an in depth review and you blasted it with a single sentence giving NOTHING to back up anything. I think I'm done replying to you and letting you bask in the glory of replying to me. Carry on Troll.
Basically, you're running away and claiming to be the victor. I didn't feel a need to address any points in that review because it is all a steaming pile. Enjoy your "victory", junior.
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Your opinion is false, and you are likely just jealous.
Since opinions aren't true or false, you are quite clearly as ignorant as the person who wrote that steaming pile of PT-loving review. I'm never jealous of ignorance. Try again, junior.
What is the most useful Star Wars quote ever?
in STAR WARS Discussion
Posted
Yes, this was a very useful quote when applied to all of the PT films.