Do you think story is really what MMO players want?

[Lynggaard]

It depends what kind of MMO player you are. Did you go straight from Counter Strike to WoW or are you a person who has enjoyed single player RPG's alongside MMO's.

 

I love story, and leveling in TOR is far more enjoyable then in any other MMO out there. Why? Because of the story.

 

Im taking my sweet time and trying to learn the story, and beeing able to play a storydriven game alongside my good friends is a perfect combination for me. Tor is exactly the MMO I have allways wanted.

 

Albeit the story is not as good as in many single player RPG's its still alot better then what is offered in other MMO's. (I do like the Warcraft lore, shame it is all messed up in WoW)

 

WoW has strong endgame, and still has the strongest endgame of all MMO's, allthough one could argue that pvp is far better in EvE and was alot better in War aswell.

 

From what I have seen in flashpoints so far TOR does have alot of good going for it, and I hope Bioware are working on more endgame content. If that comes then SWTOR for me is gonna beat wow.

[Imizael]

Personally, I prefer this type of MMO with lots of story over those that don't. I'm having a lot of fun with different characters, and exploring what Bioware has developed. I don't really even think about endgame yet, and I'm certainly not powerleveling just to be 50 as fast as possible. Honestly, I don't understand why people would play any game if they don't like the process.

 

MMO players want lots of different things. You can't group MMOers into a single category and make grand sweeping statements about what "the community" wants because the truth is we are more like a collection of communities.

 

For people who came into SWToR expecting a sci-fi clone of WoW, they're going to be disappointed. For people who read the press, the many announcements, and advertising about SWToR, I'm not sure why you'd be shocked or surprised that this game is intentionally different than other MMOs.

 

So yes, story is very important for this game, and it's very important for this MMO player.

[Samy_Merchi]

This is the only MMO that's getting a monthly subscription fee from me. Because it's the only one that gives me an immersive well told story -- THE most important aspect of how I choose to spend my entertainment dollars.

 

Story, cutscenes and voiceovers is THE reason why I sub SWTOR. Without them it's just another MMO with pointless hack'n'slash and endless text boxes.

[SnoopyDoo]

Why on earth did you buy a story driven MMO then?????

 

This is true but I think the idea of this post is more to ask the question, 'is a story driven MMO a good idea in the first place?'

[Nightrode]

It's what Star Wars lovers and KOTOR loves want. That was BioWare's original market, the rest are just addons.

 

My guess is that the rest of the MMORPG's lovers will either have to deal with the game or leave for a little while.

[Samy_Merchi]

This is true but I think the idea of this post is more to ask the question, 'is a story driven MMO a good idea in the first place?'

 

If they want my money it is.

[SnoopyDoo]

Bioware started off saying this would be story driven.

 

You have not been deceived.

 

They delivered on exactly what they intended to.

 

It doesn't matter what you think people want.

 

Don't like it?

 

Leave.

 

That a simple, adult solution.

 

I understand your point but part of what I'm hoping to get out of this post is, do you think people would prefer this game if it was more targeted in the areas I suggested in the original post? I think they would. This MMO is doing well right now but I think it could do even better if it targeted people who already play MMOs by improving the end game content. I have left, but I'm hoping the game can be improved enough for me to return.

[SnoopyDoo]

It drives me nuts to hear people talking about SW:TOR like its supposed to be a "WOW Killer". Fact of the matter is that the only way WoW is going to die is if Blizzard decides to kill it (Enter the Dancing Panda). This is all about market share and customer interest.

 

The market is well aware that many players have gotten tired of WoW. So developers are looking for ways to satisfy that market share.

 

As of November 2011 WoW is reported as having 10.3 million subscribers; down from 12 million by the way. Rift currently has close to 2 million subscribers; they are the #2 MMORPG in the market. SWTOR unofficially had around 1 million pre-launch subscribers with retailers reporting sell outs at launch day. BW has already said 500K is all they need to make it profitable and to continue development.

 

So if SWTOR already has pulled in 10% of what WOW currently has in place even after 10 years of being in the market I think that having a storyline is exactly what players want. Although I do put this caveat out there, lets see what the subscriber count is in 3 months. That will tell the tale.

 

If you are referring to the OP then can i just say i never meant to give the impression that this game was a 'WoW killer'. But if it gave this impression i do apologize. What I was trying to say was that this game will need to fill certain criteria if it hopes to take a chunk of the core MMO players who currently are mostly on WoW.

[uchorhu]

I wouldn't play this game if it weren't for the story.

[Samy_Merchi]

this game will need to fill certain criteria if it hopes to take a chunk of the core MMO players who currently are mostly on WoW.

 

I don't think that's the demographic they're going after. It doesn't hope to take a chunk of the WoW MMO players. It hopes to take a chunk of the single player RPG players, and make them pay subscriptions instead of one time only fees. That's their key demographic.

[BegaTasty]

trouble with tor is while its a fun game your "book" is only gonna be read once. Because everything is exactly same. Once you do it, its done. The Story in tor is what is holding it up from just being wow v2.0 an that is sad to see because it's obvios they worked hard on it.

 

Just the game was left lacking with

 

no progression for world pvpers

dead lifeless world

GW1 style instanced everything (this is what coarses the dead world)

Crafting while fun is useless at 50

Classes have no diversity, everything is equal which is sad to see.

 

as I said I am really ejoying it, but to have such a thin pole holding the game up (story) says alot.

GW2 while a Free to play game, is a fully done MMO an I think it's gonna take many of the world pvpers away since we have no game play for us...

 

(eg gear, because we cant earn points until 50 or we farm bg's)

 

I jsut wonder how well it's gonna hold up,when everyone is 50 I have already seen that your often playing on planets with 2-3-4 people on it (I was on quesh last night, 2 people aside from me)...

[SithZigg]

Speaking as a player, but not on behalf of all players, story is important. It helps immerse myself in my character, and gives my actions meaning. Why am I doing this again? Oh, that is right, someone explained to me the importance of doing this, and convinced me to do so.

[Samy_Merchi]

trouble with tor is while its a fun game your "book" is only gonna be read once. Because everything is exactly same.

 

Wrong. You can make different choices on different playthroughs. Lots of people play singleplayer RPGs through multiple times.

 

Plus, this game has *eight* separate books.

 

Plus, this game will produce more content and books over time, so there will always be more to play.

[Amp_]

I'd rather see a company make the game they want to, than try to make one that caters to everyone. Not every MMO from now until the end of time needs to be made for everyone. I think the approach of trying to cater to everyone is exactly where a lot of companies go wrong.

[Mannic]

It would be a wonderful addition if it hadn't been so obviously piggy-backed onto a WoW-clone.

 

And TOR is an example, IMO, of "too much of a good thing." There was obviously SO MUCH emphasis placed on story that they half-assed a good portion of the rest of the game, including things like coding for graphics performance, smooth combat, UI functionality, AH functionality, PvP and class balancing, bug-cleaning (the cut-scenes themselves added a whole new world of debugging requirements to this game,) flow of gameplay, balancing of raids, finding ways to make the world more seamless and alive...

 

You end up with a game that has 2006 level graphics yet requires 2010 level hardware to run, that is littered with a multidude of annoying bugs and, despite its "advances" feels like a game that would have been released 5 or 6 years ago.

 

"Clunky," is the word I'd use to describe the way everything fits together. Like a BMW with a Yugo engine and a motorcycle transmission bolted into it.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Mannic

[Deadxero]

(My main point out of all of this is that I don't think adding Story as a new pillar of the MMO is a smart move when trying to beat WoW in the MMO market)

 

 

I'll respond to this. Admit I didn't read the rest.

 

WoW is one type of MMO. Too many are making the mistake of thinking that MMO is a singular type of game and MMO players are all of like mind, this isn't the case. By the simple choice to focus on story, it seems evident that BW isn't trying to beat WoW at it's own game. It's a different kind of MMO for a different kind of player.

[Mannic]

Wrong. You can make different choices on different playthroughs. Lots of people play singleplayer RPGs through multiple times.

 

Plus, this game has *eight* separate books.

 

Plus, this game will produce more content and books over time, so there will always be more to play.

 

Those differences in gameplay are all so shallow that they will appeal only to the most rabid story-whores, the ones who mistake "viewing an itneractive movie" with role-playing. The ones who are mesmerized and completely immersed by a companion saying "did you miss me?" when you summon her. Sorry, but even by BW's own metrics, only half of players played through ME2 even one full time, and that was a 30 hour game. The number of people who played through multiple stories was a fraction of that. Why they (and you) thought millions of players would play through TOR multiple times for things so shallow as "this time the NPC said something different because I was rude!" is beyond me.

 

And, sorry, but the class quests, while different, are only 10 to 15% of the actual game experience. The rest is identical for all classes within a faction.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Mannic

[Tygranir]

Wait, lemme get this straight.

 

Before launch, all I read on this forums was "WoW clone"

 

Now that everyone sees that it isn't, they are upset?

 

This isn't a massive draw for casual gamers, it is a niche game for SW fans, RPG fans, and people who just really enjoy playing the game that it is, not what other MMO's are.

 

Is story that important? In this game, yes. If it is not what you are looking for, play the game that fits that bill. Don't try to change the game I am enjoying into something that I came to hate, due to the quality of people that have become prevailent in those massive WoW type MMOs.

[SnoggyMack]

God knows it's not the combat, ui, endgame, community, etc...

 

Nobody ever focuses on the UI in a game. It's ancillary. This game's UI is not tricked out. But it works and is quite average. To make the UI a major point of contention is such a waste of time. They'll add more to it later.

[Mannic]

Wait, lemme get this straight.

 

Before launch, all I read on this forums was "WoW clone"

 

Now that everyone sees that it isn't, they are upset?

 

This isn't a massive draw for casual gamers, it is a niche game for SW fans, RPG fans, and people who just really enjoy playing the game that it is, not what other MMO's are.

 

Is story that important? In this game, yes. If it is not what you are looking for, play the game that fits that bill. Don't try to change the game I am enjoying into something that I came to hate, due to the quality of people that have become prevailent in those massive WoW type MMOs.

 

This game absolutely is a WoW-clone-- a poorly done WoW clone missing a lot of features that make a WoW-clone playable, with story piggy-backed to it.

[SnoggyMack]

Those differences in gameplay are all so shallow that they will appeal only to the most rabid story-whores

 

You know what's shallow? Keying a guild of 120 for Vex Thal. That's a very shallow story.

 

You know what's also shallow? Crafting 65 separate cloaks for a guild's Onyxia raid needs.

 

This game's story is a whole lot deeper than actual shallow MMORPG content.

[Mannic]

Nobody ever focuses on the UI in a game. It's ancillary. This game's UI is not tricked out. But it works and is quite average. To make the UI a major point of contention is such a waste of time. They'll add more to it later.

 

If "no one ever focuses on the UI in a game," why is it such a point of contention for so many? And by the way, anyone who says, "no one ever focuses on the UI in a game," has obviously never healed in any high-level content, ever. Because in WoW-clones like TOR half of a healer's entire experience in raid content becomes "focusing on the UI."

[Baneberry]

Story is nice, and Bioware did an amazing job telling a story to help aliviate the usual mindless grind!

 

When I was leveling, I found myself wanting more of the story, BUT, the story quests were 3 levels higher then me, ****, MUST LEVEL FASTER SO I CAN SEE MORE OF THE STORY, and before I knew it, I was level 48, I was a Darth and

 

 

I was a member of the Sith counsel!

 

 

But that being said, this isn't a video story, this is a video GAME, and game play in Swtor, as it stand now, is a step backwards from other mmo's on the market, and yes, that's including world of warcraft.

 

un responsive combat, lack of general UI features (customization and functionality), lack of a macro system, lack of an add on system, horribly implemented and bare guild system, no achievement system, no LFG tool (and yes I mean LFG not LFD) and so on. All the aforementioned things are present in MMO's released before SWTOR, and are now considered staples of the genre.

 

But here's the good news! All the stuff I mentioned can be added into the game with patches! If Bio ware is as good as I hope they are, the next major patch will add most, if not all of those things into their game.

 

At this stage in the games life span, adding the missing and clearly sorely missed features should be priority #1, and once they have created a product that meets the industry standard of play ability and functionality, they can take the next step of creating content that could rival that of the MMO giant.

[Mannic]

You know what's shallow? Keying a guild of 120 for Vex Thal. That's a very shallow story.

 

You know what's also shallow? Crafting 65 separate cloaks for a guild's Onyxia raid needs.

 

This game's story is a whole lot deeper than actual shallow MMORPG content.

 

Story is innately shallow.

 

What we are learning from TOR is that while everyone enjoys story, people on the main don't choose NOT to play an MMO because its story sucks, and they don't generally choose to stick with an MMO just because the story is good.

 

Story is ancilliary to an MMO. That's why you're hearing the common theme on this thread, "the story is cool and everything BUT..."

Edited January 1, 2012 by Mannic

[SnoggyMack]

If "no one ever focuses on the UI in a game," why is it such a point of contention for so many?

 

It's a point of contention because some players have been hand held and spoonfed addons to a game that when I was raiding in it, didn't have or need any of that crap.

 

And by the way, anyone who says, "no one ever focuses on the UI in a game," has obviously never healed in any high-level content, ever.

 

You are correct, I have not healed in high level raid content. I have, however, been the lead puller in an everquest guild that was definitely conquering high level raid content. And I've also been an officer in a WoW guild that was top of its server before the burning crusade came out.

 

I've been there, done that in terms of high level raiding. And didn't need UI add-ons to stroke my e-peen for me.