Do you think story is really what MMO players want?

[Thorbrand]

No story isn't want a MMO needs because in a MMO you make your own story. Stories are good for single player games and if BW wants to do stories they really need to step it up because these static stories they gave us are a waste of time.

 

Instancing needs to be removed, need larger worlds and more indepth FPs/OPs! These world bosses are a joke also.

[Gestas]

No story isn't want a MMO needs because in a MMO you make your own story.

 

Are you proposing a MMORPG where we write our own quest text, dialogue, and story?

 

That sounds tedious.

[Xaehl]

Obviously it is. The masses have spoken.

[savagepotato]

I am starting to think maybe MMO players are not the kind of people I want to play with anyway. And that maybe the kind of players that are interested in the story are.

 

I've frequently said one of the biggest problems with the MMO is the players. The thing that is different about TOR is it is perhaps drawing in a completely different kind of player who has never played an MMO before but loves bioware rpg's.

 

I was reading ars technica today and saw an article about playing an MMO for the first time and being new to the mechanics of grouping. It made me think about how TOR has one thing that other games like Rift, Aion, Age of Conan, etc, didn't have. And that is a fresh influx of players that aren't jaded MMO veterans.

 

What effect this will ultimately have regarding the longevity and future of the game, I really have no idea on. Time will tell.

 

But at the end of the day, many (I'm not saying all) MMO players are the most self entitled whiny, complaining, miserable and anti-social people on the planet. This obsessively addicted core of players that hops from game to game, blasting through content in a week then exploding into a rage on the forums when their addiction cannot be quelled... THIS is the problem with the MMO industry.

 

Maybe, just maybe TOR can get past that with fresh blood, who knows.

Edited January 10, 2012 by savagepotato

[Elkard]

I am playing each class, and am enjoying the different story lines. Sith Inquisitor has the best so far, but my Jedi just unlocked a Companion story line which I am enjoying very much. Sure the none main-story quests are the same, but that doesn't bother me since I only use those if I need to do an extra level up or get away from the main story. PVP seems like a strange free-for-all, and is somewhat better than those silly battle ground capture the flag things in other games. My Jedi went head to head with Inquisitor and Warrior and won, even though they had better gear--creative use of skills helps (and without any annoying meters to tell me how I am doing). The story lines in that other game people keep mentioning which is nothing more than a Care Bear Multiplayer Console game was cool, but not as interesting or fulfilling as the stories in SW:TOR. I care about my characters, and it is because of the story and choices. I actually cringe when my Jedi must make a darkside choice because I feel it is the right thing at the moment, because I prefer to try to be pure lightside. On the flip-side, my Inquisitor is just plain evil, and for that character the choices feel good. My poor smuggler, guy just can't get a heads up either way--guess he's a gray. At times I feel like I am experiencing new Star Wars movies, or seeing a book come to life, which is fine by me because I can always step out of that and group up to do flashpoints or heroics--not that I have done that yet, not until my internet becomes more reliable--one day it's at super playabilty mode and the next, clouds come in a degrade it. But...it's the story line I come back to experience. So-called End Game content, hmmmm, wahtever, with expansions and such a true MMO never truly ends...not forever. There's other things I want from my gaming experience as well, but I am patient enough to wait for the game to mature and grow. If story isn't your thing fine. There is a button to avoid all that and just get to the quest. However, even some of the side quest stories are interesting and add to the demensions of my main story. Honestly, all those games people keep bragging about and not a third as good as SW: TOR. [Elder Jedi--unlocked in the old system; top level in WoW; etcetc] The future of MMOs could be a hybred of main character story, sandbox player based ecconomy, world PVP and such, but who can tell at this time. I mean, hey, there's still people who play Runequest.

[Jediwran]

Yes, I want story (and choice, even if it doesn't amount to much) and quality game-play.

 

Witcher, and the Dragon Age series has proven there is a large market that is being ignored in the RPG genre. A lot of people who didn't like those type games, will spacebar through everything. But a lot of people do enjoy that element. Story is the thing that brings it on top....for me personally, because the interactivity of it, is important.....again; to me.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Jediwran

[savagepotato]

I am playing each class, and am enjoying the different story lines. Sith Inquisitor has the best so far, but my Jedi just unlocked a Companion story line which I am enjoying very much. Sure the none main-story quests are the same, but that doesn't bother me since I only use those if I need to do an extra level up or get away from the main story. PVP seems like a strange free-for-all, and is somewhat better than those silly battle ground capture the flag things in other games. My Jedi went head to head with Inquisitor and Warrior and won, even though they had better gear--creative use of skills helps (and without any annoying meters to tell me how I am doing). The story lines in that other game people keep mentioning which is nothing more than a Care Bear Multiplayer Console game was cool, but not as interesting or fulfilling as the stories in SW:TOR. I care about my characters, and it is because of the story and choices. I actually cringe when my Jedi must make a darkside choice because I feel it is the right thing at the moment, because I prefer to try to be pure lightside. On the flip-side, my Inquisitor is just plain evil, and for that character the choices feel good. My poor smuggler, guy just can't get a heads up either way--guess he's a gray. At times I feel like I am experiencing new Star Wars movies, or seeing a book come to life, which is fine by me because I can always step out of that and group up to do flashpoints or heroics--not that I have done that yet, not until my internet becomes more reliable--one day it's at super playabilty mode and the next, clouds come in a degrade it. But...it's the story line I come back to experience. So-called End Game content, hmmmm, wahtever, with expansions and such a true MMO never truly ends...not forever. There's other things I want from my gaming experience as well, but I am patient enough to wait for the game to mature and grow. If story isn't your thing fine. There is a button to avoid all that and just get to the quest. However, even some of the side quest stories are interesting and add to the demensions of my main story. Honestly, all those games people keep bragging about and not a third as good as SW: TOR. [Elder Jedi--unlocked in the old system; top level in WoW; etcetc] The future of MMOs could be a hybred of main character story, sandbox player based ecconomy, world PVP and such, but who can tell at this time. I mean, hey, there's still people who play Runequest.

 

Paragraph (from the Greek paragraphos, "to write beside" or "written beside").

[Galacticaz]

The story structure of this game is what is keeping me going. The only reason I ever approached the lvl cap in WoW was because I was playing with friends. That game drove me insane, you could play that game and not ever look at the mission text for the 'story'. Sure it was cool to run around Org and Stormwind, but they pale in comparison to the first time I landed in Coruscant. When I walked off the ship and I saw out the entrance with all the buildings and ships my jaw dropped. Now I have engaging story and yes voice acting keeping me entertained the entire time. Yea, Ill take that over raging over stupid gameplay mechanics any day.

 

Now, what I said should apply to about 50% of the people who play, the other 50% want the gameplay to be incredible. It is the developers job to figure out the correct balance. The game just came out, I am going to give them a chance to fix it. Until then I am going to have a blast as a Jedi Knight thank you.

[savagepotato]

Yes, I want story (and choice, even if it doesn't amount to much) and quality game-play.

 

Witcher, and the Dragon Age series has proven there is a large market that is being ignored in the RPG genre. A lot of people who didn't like those type games, will spacebar through everything. But a lot of people do enjoy that element. Story is the thing that brings it on top....for me personally, because the interactivity of it, is important.....again; to me.

 

I cannot stand by and believe that any of the people who smashed level fifty in the first week and claim to have "seen and done everything" are on the level. They have to be space-barring through the scene's.

 

I say this because I have meticulously finished each zone and watched every cut-scene, as well as done quite a few flashpoints several times over, and I'm still in the 30's, and have been playing what I would consider a lot since early access.

 

At times I find the sheer number of quests and scenes in front of me overwhelming.

[verzin]

no. not what MMO players want, but it is what fans of the KOTOR games wanted. only problem is...MMO elements ruin the story for us (well, for me anyway. I shouldn't speak for others.)

[Jediwran]

I cannot stand by and believe that any of the people who smashed level fifty in the first week and claim to have "seen and done everything" are on the level. They have to be space-barring through the scene's.

 

I say this because I have meticulously finished each zone and watched every cut-scene, as well as done quite a few flashpoints several times over, and I'm still in the 30's, and have been playing what I would consider a lot since early access.

 

At times I find the sheer number of quests and scenes in front of me overwhelming.

 

Same here, me and a group of friends wanted to complete all the quests and get the entire story, so we're at level 35. We've played a ton. A lot of the people at 50 either skipped a ton of quests, (and I see it happen all the time) or they space-barred their way through.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Jediwran

[savagepotato]

Same here, me and a group of friends wanted to complete all the quests and get the entire story, so we're at level 35. We've played a ton. A lot of the people at 50 either skipped a ton of quests, (and I see it happen all the time) or they space-barred there way through.

 

You know that sounds about par for time investment. I am around 35 as well. This does not seem like a coincidence given the same play style being followed as far as watching every cut-scene, and ending up at nearly the exact same level.

 

I really wish I had a group of friends that was interested in playing that way. Everyone I have met in game so far has been very territorial about their experience and chooses to play solo as much as possible it seems.

Edited January 10, 2012 by savagepotato

[Jediwran]

You know that sounds about par for time investment. I am around 35 as well. This does not seem like a coincidence given the same play style being followed as far as watching every cut-scene, and ending up at nearly the exact same level.

 

I really wish I had a group of friends that was interested in playing that way. Everyone I have met in game so far has been very territorial about their experience and chooses to play solo as much as possible it seems.

 

Yeah, we've been having fun. We take turns on who starts the cut-scenes so the story doesn't seem like it is about 1 character. Worked out great

[Taboo]

Gameplay is more important than story.

 

If story were so important, we'd all be reading novels.

 

The only quote ever needed in this arguement.

[Qeuzolt]

I'm not big on story usually in general, I tried to get into the story on 2 separate classes but realized it is inefficent to try and watch all the cutscenes and listen to the people talk. I just want to get to 50 and get phat loots.

 

That doesn't mean after I'm 50 and have a good income flow and have everything I wanted to experience while basically just PVPing and skipping all the cutscenes I won't go back and actually enjoy the cut scenes and story with an alt, I'm personally hoping that the legacy system has something like EQ2 where based on what lvl your legacy is you get cool new gear for leveling or an 50% XP boost so you can still enjoy the story but it shortens the grind to level an alt.

 

I don't think this game is resting solely on it's story. The story is a main attraction for a lot of players that don't play MMO's and don't have the must get endgame mentality. I think a lot of people are crying about there being no endgame but what MMO that has released recently came with a fully thought out endgame? None.

 

If you look at WoW at launch it's endgame was not fully fleshed out, and if they both launched simultaneously wow would have nothing on this game. People that think a game is going to have everything that WoW had because they started playing late into BC and WoW had everything already because it had time to develop, think that every game needs to com out complete are just unrealistic. What this game has at the moment is a good step, there are 3 levels of difficulty in end game raiding. There are 3 tiers of PVP loot, and there are 2 tiers of PVE dungeons. What else do you want? Did you really expect there to be 10 end game raids, and 10 different battlegrounds and multiple tiers of everything before people got through the first one?

 

Please, people that are 50, understand that you rushed there you get to experience everything first and that's awesome for you. I wish I could take a week off work and do the same thing, but don't start QQ posts about how there is no end game when there is a single teir of endgame and you feel like you've done it all already. Just go back and play an alt and enjoy what you skipped, or if that's not for you there is always that 7 year old game that has everything your looking for, it will have pandas soon

[Slightlycampana]

I'm not sure why we keep having these sorts of threads, but I suspect it's something along the lines of cognitive dissonance.

 

It has been said, repeatedly, that a lot of players are

 

- not interested in PVP

- not interested in metrics of "efficiency" in terms of their character

- invested in the story, both in a way to justify "kill x foozles" and as a story in it's own right

- tired of the focus on stilted empty shells of gameworlds that are basically only there to compare gear and "pwn n00bs"

- see the journey to 50 as the goal, not getting to 50

- value story, RP, community MORE than having bragging rights because your DPS is X or because you have x rare loots

 

But no matter how much this is repeated, people from other MMO's who are convinced that all must be EXACTLY like that don't grasp it.

 

Bioware and EA are gambling that people are SICK of the conventional formula, that the "tools and convience" offered actually strip the fun away for many people, and that a large portion of the gaming community doesn't play MMO's because MMO's do not currently appeal to them.

 

The trouble is, once you get to max level, all you get is the conventional formula. If you are not interested in that, the game is over. Time to unsub and move onto something else.

 

The criticism of story isn't that people don't like or enjoy the story - they do. It's just that we can't see what is going to keep us in the game when the story is finished.

 

I keep seeing, over & over ...

 

"Gameplay is more important"

 

Yet no one is able to define exactly WHAT this elusive 'Gameplay' is ...

 

Story isn't gameplay? Quests are not Gameplay? Leveling is not Gameplay?

 

 

I think most of the people complaining about 'Story' are the PvP players who just want to bash other players & this 'Story' is getting in their way.

 

Levelling is finite. Once you are done with it, the gameplay BW offers is raiding for gear, or pvp for gear. Is that really want people want?

 

There are many other kinds of end-game that could be offered - crafting, customisation of player ships, territory control. But they're not there.

[Skullncross]

I think having a story actually immerses you into the whole experience and there are some players who love to pretend they are actually there in their ship,speeder etc I for one love watching the cinematic scenes and also wonder how long it took to do each scripted part were you pick 1,2,3 on the buttons now I may be the only player who actually looks at the graphics In game like a blade of grass ok I'm mad

[Jediwran]

The only quote ever needed in this arguement.

 

I disagree with that. For me they're equally important.

[savagepotato]

To actually comment on story.

 

One of the reasons I didn't stick with Rift comes to mind.

 

Rift was an amazing game technically. I was quite literally blown away by it's quality. The UI, the graphics, the mechanics, everything was more polished than anything I had ever seen in a launch MMO.

 

Ultimately though, between the same old players I was used to from every other MMO that hopped into rift, and the fact that I couldn't get interested at all in the bland generic story, I washed out after merely 10 levels.

 

If the game doesn't have something like that to hook you it's a problem. At least for me it is.

Edited January 10, 2012 by savagepotato

[LoL-K-Noob]

Story makes the game. BF3/CoD wouldnt be popular if it was the same gameplay, but was about clowns using water guns.

[Teuras]

tl;dr but have debated the issue for years with guildies etc. and my answer is still No.

 

Story in MMO is something that players can create themselves if given the proper tools.

[Khryn]

Yes, yes story is incredibly important to me. My last guild in WoW was like "WHY ARE YOU TAKING SO LONG?" because I was trying to read the quests.

[Karast]

People keep leaving the rpg off of mmorpg. Story does matter. It is as important to an mmoRPG as the core game mechanics. If you play a game that has fantastic game mechanics but no real story at all, you'll play for a bit, get bored and move on. If you play a game with a fantastic story but horrible game mechanics, you'll play it for a bit, get frustrated and move on. There is a ratio of story to game that differs for every person.

 

Personally I am really happy with how they've done the story and questing in swtor. I've played a lot of MMO's and I typically do not enjoy the level grind all that much. The whole go kill 10 boars, go kill 10 wolves, go kill 10 rats thing bores the heck out of me, but while the mechanics of the quests are the same in swtor go kill 10 emp's go kill 10 pirates go kill 10 jawas, that added aspect of story made it much more enjoyable and feel like less of a grind.

 

Rather than mindlessly grinding quests for xp, I was grinding quests to see what happens in the story arch. Do I get to romance that sith chick? what happens if I romance that jedi chick. What happens if I romance both of my female companions? What happens if I execute that annoying npc! Am I going to get my ship back? If I grind out this arch can I kill that dude that made fun of my haircut?

 

If the story lines are good or engaging you end up doing the quests just see how they turn out for entertainment value, not because its a mindless time sink preventing you from pvp'ing at endgame.

[LaSexorcist]

On the topic of story I really don't like the way BioWare as implemented their vision of story. Just because I have a nice conversation with a quest giver doesn't mean that him telling me to kill 10 boars (or droids) will be any more fun. Are people really that stupid as to believe that STORY is going to make an MMO more fun in the end game.

 

 

Yes, this DOES actually matter. Every MMO I've ever played has been a RUSH to the max level. I don't give a crap about the process of getting to the max level because all of the fun content is at the end. Getting a quest with a half assed story in the form of a wall of text ultimately means that everyone just skips the wall of text and accepts the quest.

 

You then go and fight x # of enemies or collect n # of items and get some experience. Essentially, since I don't care about the half assed story, I could just go and kill n # of enemies on my own to grind levels. The only thing the quest does over random grinding is a) give me a larger reward in experience and maybe gear, and point me to new locations I might not have been to.

 

That is my definition of a snooze fest. So I have to spend 100 - 200 hours grinding m way to max level where all of the fun content is. They might as well just let me start out as the max level if the fun content is there. The only thing that grinding quests does for me is that by the time I reach max level, I was eased into the abilities and know how to play my class. I'll tell you what, it does not take me 200 hours to learn how to play my class. If they gave me all abilities up front and started me at max level, I could learn the class in a fraction of that time.

 

However, the simple addition of the conversation style quest dialogs (and I believe the impact would still be there even if there was NO voice acting) where I have to interact with the NPC through dialog choices makes me CARE about the quest content, even for something trivial. So now when I go do the same thing as another MMO when I go to kill x # of enemies, I am not doing it because I want to grind a level, but because I want to get back to the conversation to hear more of the story.

 

So, the bottom line is YES story does matter. For the first time in an MMO, I see myself playing the MMO for the leveling process, and not the end game. Don't get me wrong, I want the end game content to be there, and hopefully it will be at some point (and maybe it is there now, I don't know ), but I'm just going to enjoy the ride. If I hit level 50, and there is nothing to do, I have 7 other reasons to play another character. And you know what, if I play though all eight class stories, and there is still no end content? Who cares? I had a blast doing it.

 

Lets say WoW had no end game content "yet" and that it was coming at some point. If I had played through all WoW classes waiting for end game content to be there to give them time, and then it never materialized, I'd slit my wrists with frustration. The leveling process was boring in that game (first time through was OK, but any alternate char was just to get a different style of play while suffering through the boredom), only end game mattered.

 

At least with this game, regardless of endgame, I'm having fun through the whole process.

[savagepotato]

tl;dr but have debated the issue for years with guildies etc. and my answer is still No.

 

Story in MMO is something that players can create themselves if given the proper tools.

 

But yet this has proven to fail.

 

There are plenty of sandbox mmo's that have taken their stab. And while some have had their success, and are arguably great games, none have made it to mass commercial success.

 

Darkfall

Star Wars Galaxies

Eve online

Mortal online

 

Just a few examples. Some great games some not so great. But all have one thing in common. Not very many people play them. To have fun with a sandbox game you need to be a leader. There are very few people that are leaders, and a great many followers.

Edited January 10, 2012 by savagepotato