Quick Analysis of Slicing v1.0.1

[Kaliv]

I started recording all my results once the nerf hit. My idea was to gather a ton of data and prove that Slicing now nets a negative return. However, once the data was obtained and proved to show long-term positive returns...I started look at my data in a different light -- How can I make Slicing benefitical to me? Here as some assumption I made going into data collecting...so my data isn't totally comprehensive.

 

Assumptions:

1) Mission gathering for Augments is worthless, so don't bother with them...you never know what you are going to get.

2) Rate of return doesn't make a difference depending on crew member doing the mission.

3) Rich missions will net more money than Moderate missions.

4) Schematics don't make the mission a complete success, because thier value to me is inconsequential (use for further missions to which data is gathered or they are given to guild mates).

 

Now of course, some of the initial assumptions were a bit off, but that is how I collected my data. Each class sampling had 30 samples (plenty for a significant beta)...and my skill in Slicing was already maxxed at 400. Within each Class, I divided out from Moderate to Rich. Although I was looking at my data from a Class point of view, I also wanted to use an experimental design approach to see if within the sets, there were significant factors. Across the range of Classes, there were no significant factors from Moderate to Rich, but within Classes, some missions seemed to have more benefitical results.

 

At a top level review, to gather 30 samples of each class totaled a bit over 51 hours of slicing. With 3 companions able to be actively slicing at the same time, that's roughly 17 playing hours. In that amount of time:

 

12,262 credits total net profit

238 credits average per mission

13 credits average per minute

 

From that data...it looks pretty bleak post-nerf for Slicing. In my 17 hours of adventuring, I managed to net over 200K credits around level 30. So an extra 12K doesn't seem like a lot. But that is neither here nor there as a lot of agruements are about Slicing not being designed as a money maker from missions. Also, a player isn't going to equally distribute thier missions from Class 1 through 6. So here is the breakout per Class -- note, failure rate is defined as the mission not returning a positive reward.

 

Class 1:

9.40 credits average per mission

3.00 credits average per minute

43% failure rate

 

Class 2:

74.67 credits average per mission

12.51 credits average per minute

60% failure rate

 

Class 3:

147.07 credits average per mission

14.56 credits average per minute

27% failure rate

 

Class 4:

233.10 credits average per mission

13.22 credits average per minute

23% failure rate

 

Class 5:

777.60 credits average per mission

27.51 credits average per minute

17% failure rate

 

Class 6:

186.37 credits average per mission

4.91 credits average per minute

37% failure rate

 

As can be seen, Class 5 is definately the tier you want to stick with for slicing. The reason being is that the failure rate is the lowest...combined with a certain mission that seemed to crit more often. That mission cost 1930 credits...which I believe is "Finding Our Way". I had it crit for 7892 credits once...and it rarely failed. Granted...you can only run that mission once every half hour or so...and it doesn't always come back as an option once the mission is over. So I would combine it with Class 4 missions. Both the 1175 credit and 1250 credit missions seemed decent compared with other options.

 

Some odd things that I discovered is why the first two Classes have such high failure rates. It seems odd with a 400 Slicing skill level. Also, the rich mission for Class 1 always returned as a failure for me. Not sure why. Additionally, one would think that unlocking higher missions would be benefitial. As can be seen, Class 6 isn't better than Class 5, and I didn't find any significant data to prove the rich missions net better results than moderate missions. In fact, many of my wealthy missions can back as failures, as I didn't count the other goodies being returned as a non-failure.

 

So, you're not going to get rich running slicing missions, but there are a few things you can do to make it more profitable for you. In the long-term, you are going to make money, but not sure if it's worth the hassle of keeping your crew members actively slicing...as the results are actually low. One would have to do an analysis of alternatives, which I didn't accomplish. But I'm hearing other gathering/trade skill professions are profitable is making credits is your motive. Additionally, this study doesn't look into gathering slicing nodes while out adventuring. Whereas they seemed abundant on level 30 planets...each node varied between a Class 2 and Class 3, so par for the level I was adventuring in. Granted, the results of opening a case seemed lower than the mission returns...but I didn't track it.

 

Hope this helped...if you are looking at being a Slicer.

 

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Edit: Found an error in the average profit per minute calculation. Changed previous results by tenths...so no big error. I was using someone else's spreadsheet to start my analysis and never review thier calculations. I figured I should probably make sure everything was being calculated correctly seeing as I was publishing results some people were looking at.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kaliv

[Arconon]

Very interesting analysis, much appreciated!

 

It also kind of backs up my point of believing that the system isn't really balanced or even bugged (for example, class 1 rich yield mission)....

[dotriche]

You said one of your assumptions was that moderate missions were not going to be profitable. What did your data show you about this?

[CtJackHarkness]

Finally...someone who has a brain than the mindless asking to nerf everything under the moon because they are incapable of yields.

 

Clap clap clap...

[CtJackHarkness]

Oh no, im not letting this one go down. it proves slicing is useful

[TheBoredfish]

Oh no, im not letting this one go down. it proves slicing is useful

 

Because 13-20 credits per hour is useful.

[wixxkruppel]

Because 13-20 credits per hour is useful.

 

Because only taking into account missions (which you shouldn't be doing with ANY gathering skill to begin with) is smart.

 

 

Scavenging missions = lose money, gain mats.

 

Slicing missions = stay ~breakeven, occasional misc loot.

 

Scavenging nodes = free scavenging mats

 

Slicing nodes = free money

 

 

All slicing nerf did, was bring it in line (read, balance) with the other gathering skills.

Edited January 1, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[Kaliv]

You said one of your assumptions was that moderate missions were not going to be profitable. What did your data show you about this?

 

I didn't see where I said moderate missions were not going to be profitable...but that rich missions would be more profitable than moderate ones. Granted...this was an assumption going into the study so I could set something up. Not all assumptions will come out correct...and this was one of them. I'm glad you asked, because I went back into my data and pulled out more analysis.

 

Below is the analyzed data for Class 1-5. Class 6 has no rich missions. Granted, I didn't set up my study to pull these figures out...so I'm using smaller sample sizes which will reduce my beta. But the general realization is that moderate missions are more profitable than rich ones. Something I didn't factor in, however, is if the mission comes back with an extra reward such as a schematic...so I have no idea what those results would be. But from a net credit standpoint (using credits per minute for comparison)--

 

Class 1:

9.83 Moderate

(19.56) Rich -- negative return

 

Class 2:

11.96 Moderate

8.73 Rich

 

Class 3:

29.47 Moderate

14.94 Rich

 

Class 4:

25.80 Moderate

9.65 Rich

 

Class 5:

16.23 Moderate

9.20 Rich

[Saber_Six]

Because only taking into account missions (which you shouldn't be doing with ANY gathering skill to begin with) is smart.

 

 

Scavenging missions = lose money, gain mats.

 

Slicing missions = stay ~breakeven, occasional misc loot.

 

Scavenging nodes = free scavenging mats

 

Slicing nodes = free money

 

 

All slicing nerf did, was bring it in line (read, balance) with the other gathering skills.

 

This silly logic is, well, silly.

 

Scavenging missions risk credits for crafting material.

Slicing missions risk credits for credits.

Your idea that slicing missions should not make money makes zero logical sense. Scavenging gains material but slicing should gain nothing?

[Kaliv]

This silly logic is, well, silly.

 

Scavenging missions risk credits for crafting material.

Slicing missions risk credits for credits.

Your idea that slicing missions should not make money makes zero logical sense. Scavenging gains material but slicing should gain nothing?

 

I believe his intention is that missions are a suppliment from your adventures. The real profitability for any gathering skill is going out adventuring and gather nodes yourself. Which is quite another argument from what many believed Bioware was promoting before release. And he is right...gathering yourself is where the profitability is.

 

However...and I don't believe anyone has taken on this task to date, because it realizes on a more dynamic metric...is the profitability of other gathering missions...such as scavenging. If you wish to make a comparison...one would have to put it in like units...such as credits.

 

If someone would like to take on this task...gather samples from each class doing missions...and note how much output you gain from those missions. Then either vendor the gains...or more likely...check the average price on the auction house (GTN?) and put the results in credits. Only then...go make bold statements about how other gathering missions compare to slicing and how balanced they are.

[Aetla]

Looking forward to see find schematics via leveling.

 

I'm a Armormech guys and picked Slicing to obtain schematics. Gather skill is Scavenging.

 

Would you recommend Slicing as mission skill to me?

 

Thanks in advance...

[Spiritinblack]

I did some of my own testing with slicing as well. ( not anywhere as detailed as yours ).

 

I came to about the same conclusion as you. Yes, you can still make money off it from just sending companions out. As long as you know which missions are better for it. ( as you have already stated )

 

It is technically a gathering skill. Go find a nice circle to run and gather as many boxes as you can. Then come back and say that it is a broke skill. ( not you OP, for the ones that are saying it does not make money.)

 

I have made quite a bit from it by doing this. I know alot do not like to "farm" but this is the best way for you to make money slicing.

[wixxkruppel]

This silly logic is, well, silly.

 

What would have been silly, is every slicer earning 200 million extra credits per year with zero effort.

 

Now, you just have to work (read, gather, as in gathering skill) for it, making slicing an actual choice, instead of a requirement.

 

Slicing missions risk credits for credits.

 

Slicing

 

Your idea that slicing missions should not make money makes zero logical sense.

 

Scavenging gains material but slicing should gain nothing?

 

Slicing missions do make a small profit if selected properly (as per OP). You also have the chance to get various items for free, unlike treasure hunting/UWT.

 

You're also making the mistake of comparing the missions of two fundamentally different crew skills.

 

Slicing = same input/output (replicates)

 

Scavenging = different input/output (transforms)

 

By your logic, it would be completely ok if scavenging missions required 4 mats, and gave you 12 of the same in return.

Edited January 1, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[xxBreemenxx]

Thx for taking the time to put that info out. Any chance you could break them down individually or put out a spreadsheet of the data? I saw another that somewhat establishes the info you've given. But there are exceptional missions each tier.

For example, the L2 mission "For Better or Worse" was listed as having the highest output over time (in credits) . It's my go-to mission for whichever companion I'm questing with since i like to have them available without cancelling a mission they're 5-8+ minutes in already.

I just had it crit for 1.7k, a cybertech schematic( selling for 300-400 atm), and an epic 115 archaeology mission(1-2k depending on the current items in-market) .

Edited January 1, 2012 by xxBreemenxx

[Kaliv]

The overall goal that I started with was not to show which missions were the most profitable...but to prove the nerf was too strong (of which now I'm undecided). To that end...I'd need to collect more data and parse it out differently to answer you question...because my setup isn't necessary built for you question. However, right now I'm just enjoying the game and not doing any more research. Holiday is over for work and my graduate classes are starting back up.

 

On another note. Might as well just send all your companions out when they are available. Cutting them short on thier missions doesn't net any credit lose. You should notice that when you cancel a mission, the credits to fund the mission are returned back to you. Atleast, that is what I have noticed. But then again, I've seen other strange things in this game as well...such as selling something on the auction house for 7K and gaining 8.4K for the sale. Must be tips.

[STLBluesNut]

ok i only read the first page. but i attempted to do a similar study, however, not as broad.

 

i recorded all of my class 4 bountiful and rich, class 5 abundant and rich, and class 6 abundant missions as i had read to only run the highest in each class, and the highest i could find was class 6 abundant.

 

overall these are my results:

74 missions ran total

7 different missions- 1x4r 2x4b 2x5a 2x5r 1x6a

total profit- 31940

avg per mission- 401.79

avg per minute- 15.78

% profit total- 27.18%

 

i suppose this is a small sample size compared to the OP, but it is what i have so far. spent the last 2 days leveling an assasin.

 

in comparison, running around nar shadaa hitting slicing nodes (which i did not record), it seemed the average per node was about 250, but i could hit many more nodes than my 3 companions could return in a half hour. this is on a low-mid level planet.

 

also in comparison, i found a spot where i could circle and hit 4 of the security crate thingies about 1 cycle per 5-7 minutes which each crate gave at least a green item and anywhere from 400-1400 credits. this is on a low-mid level planet.

 

so... is slicing overall profitable? yes

 

i am sure there are more profitable ways to make money, far more profitable. however, all you have to do is send your guys out a couple times an hour when you are doing other things. i would probably fall more in line with the arguement that slicing was nearer where it should be before the nerf. especially, with other posts with people making 250k per day doing other things or 150k for a round of simple kill and bomb dailies. i wouldnt say that prenerf slicing was significantly overpowered or out of line.

 

and now...? between what i have analyzed myself and have seen from others it is way below where it should be, imo.

[Kaliv]

The more I think about this word balanced and people either for or against slicing being where it should be...the more I realize that we can't know until we do studies on other gathering skills. We're comparing one gathering skill to it's pre-nerf status...or in my case, to itself. If we want to consider the slicing in the sense of balance...we need to do in-depth studies of the other skills and compare in like units. Slicing provides a good baseline for a start, as I believe the optimal comparison would be in credits...but actually anything common will do. As it stands now...mission are fine to employ crews full-time, but the real profit is from gathering. There really is no need to search for that perfect circle. When adventuring in both Tantooine and Alderaan...there were plenty of nodes to keep me busy and really slow down my actual adventuring. Especially on Alderaan...many times I didn't even have to fight to collect a node. Combine slicing with another gathering skill...and you'll never find time to fight if you are concentrated on gathering every node you see...as there is practically a node always on my radar in those two zones alone.

[Nemuneir]

... pretty much support the conclusions of the initial poster. My data sample is not quite as evenly distributed, and wasn't taken entirely at 400 slicing skill, but is still statistically interesting and significant.

 

Note that the standard deviation on the gross return of two of the top three (Finding our Way, Taking Back Control) is incredibly high - something around 50-60% of the mission cost. These two are the "rich" missions in the 41-48 teir, and getting a critical on one of those seems to give double to triple the return, skewing the stats. In contrast, the standard deviation on Sabatoge and Repair is close to 25% of the mission cost.

 

I did not consider mission "failures" in the same way as the initial poster, assuming that anyone making money off slicing is interested in yield over the long haul instead of over a particular mission.

 

 

Net /   Net /     Mission NameMission Minute    700     23.77     Finding Our Way423     17.22     Sabatoge and Repair370     12.17     Taking Back Control344     18.53     Be Careful What You Read322     16.62     Pointing Fingers314     11.94     His Home is his Castle258     15.68     Spy Droid258      7.16     The Azure Databanks245     18.26     Missing Probes208      7.69     Off the Grid204     16.76     Arranged Accidents163      5.22     Plug the Leak96      14.54     Identify and Neutralize82      10.80     Take the Money and Run76       7.82     Droid Madness57      11.48     High Finance40      10.04     Pirate Partygoers39       9.83     Finders Keepers38      12.69     Secrets of the Past36       3.28     Prince of Fools33      11.04     The Hidden Merchants0        0.15     An Open Contract-1      -0.10     For Better or Worse-95    -23.85     Vanishing Acts

 

 

I'll continue adding to my data set and hopefully will find a better way to share it out.

 

- Nem