Why does everyone hate the prequals????

[Lexandar]

Because they are a travesty to what Lucas originally created.

 

DID Lucas even create the original series? Or did he just rake the money from having the merchandise rights?

[PeepsMcJuggs]

DID Lucas even create the original series? Or did he just rake the money from having the merchandise rights?

 

He created Episode IV with a lot of people calling him out on his bs (to include his wife, who won an Oscar for taking his disjumbled pile of footage and making a story out of it), so he decided he didn't like the stress, stepped back and let Irvin Kirshner direct Episode V (which even Lucas credited as "Irvin's film") and Richard Marquand direct Episode VI (watch Episode IV and Episode VI one after the other, and it's pretty damn clear that they were filmed by different directors: Lucas' "advising" only had so much impact on Marquand's final decisions).

 

If you really want to understand the difference between the original trilogy that he supposedly created all by himself and the prequels, look at the number of editors on Episodes IV and VI and who actually wrote the screenplay for Episode V. Then compare to I-III.

 

(And no, you're not misreading: the prequels were edited by Ben Burtt, the famous sound designer)

Edited January 25, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[reaperkeepet]

He created Episode IV with a lot of people calling him out on his bs (to include his wife, who won an Oscar for taking his disjumbled pile of footage and making a story out of it), so he decided he didn't like the stress, stepped back and let Irvin Kirshner direct Episode V (which even Lucas credited as "Irvin's film") and Richard Marquand direct Episode VI (watch Episode IV and Episode VI one after the other, and it's pretty damn clear that they were filmed by different directors: Lucas' "advising" only had so much impact on Marquand's final decisions).

 

If you really want to understand the difference between the original trilogy that he supposedly created all by himself and the prequels, look at the number of editors on Episodes IV and VI and who actually wrote the screenplay for Episode V. Then compare to I-III.

 

Is that true?

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Is that true?

 

All fact. You can look it up. Even Lucas cited that his advising on Episode VI was specifically regarding Marquand's inexperience with special effects, not story (which makes Vader going "NOOOOOOOOO" highly inappropriate, because Marquand didn't block the scene that way).

Edited January 25, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[earlallison]

The prequels were lesser movies to many for a few simple (IMHO) reasons;

 

1. Lucas couldn't possibly make a movie that was the equal to your personal vision: You already know where the characters end up, so the stories were constrained by the original trilogy. You know Luke and Leia will live. You know Kenobi and Yoda will survive. You know Anakin will become Vader. And for many of us who grew up with the original trilogy, we had it all worked out in our heads how it worked. No matter how good or bad the movies were, it wasn't going to measure up to imagination.

 

2. The prequels, and this is subjective, weren't nearly the redefining movies or SFX that the original trilogy was. I don't know if the OP was alive in 1976, but before that, with very slight exceptions (2001 as an example), sci-fi was not considered serious storytelling. The opening of the first movie, with the Star Destroyer just appearing, and appearing, and appearing, influenced a generation, as did the opening dialogue crawl. The SFX were simply amazing for the time, groundbreaking, in fact. While the prequels did look nice, they weren't the quantum leap forward the originals were, for good or ill.

 

3. Lucas had gotten too big to be told 'no.' I've read and watched comments where people mention that, while Lucas is great for ideas, he has a tin ear for dialogue. The "I know" from Solo to Leia in Empire? Ad-libbed by Ford, IIRC. Lucas had a long chunk of dialogue scripted, and Ford said something along the lines of "George, people don't talk like this," and did his thing. And back then, it was okay. But now, decades later? Lucas owns everything lock, stock, and barrel, and no one can sit him down and tell him when something simply doesn't work (plotting, dialogue, yet ANOTHER 'we need to destroy the shield generator' plot, etc)

 

4. Nostalgia. This one is a little unfair, admittedly. See, a lot of us grew up watching the originals, and playing to point 1, we already had an idea how things "should" work. But we weren't between five and fifteen anymore, so some of the sheer awe factor was gone when the new movies came out. Besides, we all know nothing is as cool as what we grew up with, right?

 

5. George himself. See, he says a lot of stuff, the problem is, it contradicts the OTHER stuff he tells. These were the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker? Really? Since when? Certainly not with the original trilogy. Always planned to make six? I seem to recall nine being the operative number. And don't get me started on his constant retooling of the movies, both original and prequels. Mr Lucas, those original movies made you who you are, please stop changing them. We loved them as they were, wires, Han shooting first, and all!

 

I don't HATE the prequels, but I don't think they used the time they had to really tell the story they needed to. If I had to make a choice, I would keep Revenge, squash Phantom Menace to about half its length, change a lot of Attack (drop some of the Naboo scenes, for one), and add some more 'After the Fall' after Revenge. Show some of the Jedi being hunted, show Vader's continued descent into darkness.

 

But that's just me.

 

Take it and run,

[reaperkeepet]

Because Anakin was a whiny little kid who annoyed the craµ out of us. Seriously, ruined the entire thing for me.

 

Anakin = QQ?

[PeepsMcJuggs]

The prequels were lesser movies to many for a few simple (IMHO) reasons;

 

1. Lucas couldn't possibly make a movie that was the equal to your personal vision: You already know where the characters end up, so the stories were constrained by the original trilogy. You know Luke and Leia will live. You know Kenobi and Yoda will survive. You know Anakin will become Vader. And for many of us who grew up with the original trilogy, we had it all worked out in our heads how it worked. No matter how good or bad the movies were, it wasn't going to measure up to imagination.

 

2. The prequels, and this is subjective, weren't nearly the redefining movies or SFX that the original trilogy was. I don't know if the OP was alive in 1976, but before that, with very slight exceptions (2001 as an example), sci-fi was not considered serious storytelling. The opening of the first movie, with the Star Destroyer just appearing, and appearing, and appearing, influenced a generation, as did the opening dialogue crawl. The SFX were simply amazing for the time, groundbreaking, in fact. While the prequels did look nice, they weren't the quantum leap forward the originals were, for good or ill.

 

3. Lucas had gotten too big to be told 'no.' I've read and watched comments where people mention that, while Lucas is great for ideas, he has a tin ear for dialogue. The "I know" from Solo to Leia in Empire? Ad-libbed by Ford, IIRC. Lucas had a long chunk of dialogue scripted, and Ford said something along the lines of "George, people don't talk like this," and did his thing. And back then, it was okay. But now, decades later? Lucas owns everything lock, stock, and barrel, and no one can sit him down and tell him when something simply doesn't work (plotting, dialogue, yet ANOTHER 'we need to destroy the shield generator' plot, etc)

 

4. Nostalgia. This one is a little unfair, admittedly. See, a lot of us grew up watching the originals, and playing to point 1, we already had an idea how things "should" work. But we weren't between five and fifteen anymore, so some of the sheer awe factor was gone when the new movies came out. Besides, we all know nothing is as cool as what we grew up with, right?

 

5. George himself. See, he says a lot of stuff, the problem is, it contradicts the OTHER stuff he tells. These were the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker? Really? Since when? Certainly not with the original trilogy. Always planned to make six? I seem to recall nine being the operative number. And don't get me started on his constant retooling of the movies, both original and prequels. Mr Lucas, those original movies made you who you are, please stop changing them. We loved them as they were, wires, Han shooting first, and all!

 

I don't HATE the prequels, but I don't think they used the time they had to really tell the story they needed to. If I had to make a choice, I would keep Revenge, squash Phantom Menace to about half its length, change a lot of Attack (drop some of the Naboo scenes, for one), and add some more 'After the Fall' after Revenge. Show some of the Jedi being hunted, show Vader's continued descent into darkness.

 

But that's just me.

 

Take it and run,

 

Very well put.

[reaperkeepet]

All fact. You can look it up. Even Lucas cited that his advising on Episode VI was specifically regarding Marquand's inexperience with special effects, not story (which makes Vader going "NOOOOOOOOO" highly inappropriate, because Marquand didn't block the scene that way).

 

So.... Lucas diddn't even direct the original movies?

[Akalayus]

George directed ANH, but not the others.

[reaperkeepet]

Huh. I guess you learn something new everyday.

[Pwny_Express]

Huh. I guess you learn something new everyday.

 

He didn't write the Screenplay for V or VI either.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

George directed ANH, but not the others.

 

He "advised" on Episodes V and VI, which the diehards use to argue that he actually made the films and just told the directors what to do. Facts state otherwise.

 

He didn't write the Screenplay for V or VI either.

 

He co-wrote the screenplay for ROTJ with Larry Kasdan, who co-wrote ESB with Leigh Brackett.

 

 

Another point the "new generation" of Star Wars fanboys needs to understand is that us older generation folks used to worship George Lucas (some literally). He was a god among filmmakers who could do no wrong. We were so convinced of his utter brilliance that we even forgave him for Howard the Duck. It took a lot for those of us that bash Lucas to realize how wrong we were. I, for one, would have shrugged off every misstep, Jar Jar and midichlorean as just making something shiny and flashy for the shorter-attention-spanned modern movie public if he wasn't so determined to give a shiny middle finger to a trilogy that so many of us has cherished for so long.

 

What we missed were the signs of egotistical self-centeredness that were there from the beginning. This was a guy that, rather than having a grandiose vision of a Galaxy Far Far Away, was an independent filmmaker who begrudgingly created a trilogy due to the unexpected popularity of the first film. As an indie filmer at heart, he's never worked well with others. He was miserable directing Star Wars because it became far more of a mainstream production than he ever wanted it to be (he hates mainstream Hollywood so much that by ROTJ, once he had the money, he created LucasFilm so he could fund projects all by himself). He wasn't used to collaborating with others, let alone people questioning his every decision (see Harrison Ford's famous, albeit paraphrased a thousand different ways quote: "George, you can write this stuff, but you can't say it"). What came out the back end was a nonsensical, jumbled mess until others stepped in and fixed it (see Empire of Dreams if you don't believe me).

 

When ESB came out, he took a backseat and let others run the show for the reasons stated above. He provided creative input advising general direction of the story but, as I stated before, had such little influence in the ultimate project that he referred to ESB as directer Irvin Kirshner's work, not his (in Lucas' defense, the fable about Ford ad-libbing "I know" because of Lucas' poor writing doesn't make sense, because Lucas didn't write the screenplay). It's also pretty well known that Lucas didn't really like ESB, and is one of the reasons he increased his creative input on ROTJ, to include working on the screenplay.

 

Now, with ROTJ, Lucas himself went on record as saying his advising to director Richard Marquand was only regarding special effects, to which Marquand had little experience. It wasn't a case, as some believe, of Lucas directing without filming the scenes himself. Every single shot was ultimately Marquand's call, and incorporated his directing style, not Lucas'.

 

 

 

Now I ask, in light of these verifiable, well-known facts, how can people fail to understand why we're so pissed off? That it is literally offensive that he's redone the works of others because, regardless of legality, he's messing with someone else's artwork?

 

You could probably make a valid argument for Episode IV if you really want to, but even then, the final product that came out in 1977 was the result of a dedicated crew of professionals that took his mishmash pile of film and made something amazing out of it. The special effects pioneers that worked on that film were positively brilliant, and their accomplishments are something that should be honored and cherished as changing the face of modern blockbuster moviemaking. But instead, all of their hard work has been brushed aside, practically erased from history, because Lucas decided that CGI is better.

 

And now he has the gall to be offended that people criticize him, when he's essentially criticized those honored filmmakers' work as not good enough.

Edited January 26, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[RagnarokJC]

He "advised" on Episodes V and VI, which the diehards use to argue that he actually made the films and just told the directors what to do. Facts state otherwise.

 

He co-wrote the screenplay for ROTJ with Larry Kasdan, who co-wrote ESB with Leigh Brackett.

 

Another point the "new generation" of Star Wars fanboys needs to understand is that us older generation folks used to worship George Lucas (some literally). He was a god among filmmakers who could do no wrong. We were so convinced of his utter brilliance that we even forgave him for Howard the Duck. It took a lot for those of us that bash Lucas to realize how wrong we were. I, for one, would have shrugged off every misstep, Jar Jar and midichlorean as just making something shiny and flashy for the shorter-attention-spanned modern movie public if he wasn't so determined to give a shiny middle finger to a trilogy that so many of us has cherished for so long.

 

What we missed were the signs of egotistical self-centeredness that were there from the beginning. This was a guy that, rather than having a grandiose vision of a Galaxy Far Far Away, was an independent filmmaker who begrudgingly created a trilogy due to the unexpected popularity of the first film. As an indie filmer at heart, he's never worked well with others. He was miserable directing Star Wars because it became far more of a mainstream production than he ever wanted it to be (he hates mainstream Hollywood so much that by ROTJ, once he had the money, he created LucasFilm so he could fund projects all by himself). He wasn't used to collaborating with others, let alone people questioning his every decision (see Harrison Ford's famous, albeit paraphrased a thousand different ways quote: "George, you can write this stuff, but you can't say it"). What came out the back end was a nonsensical, jumbled mess until others stepped in and fixed it (see Empire of Dreams if you don't believe me).

 

When ESB came out, he took a backseat and let others run the show for the reasons stated above. He provided creative input advising general direction of the story but, as I stated before, had such little influence in the ultimate project that he referred to ESB as directer Irvin Kirshner's work, not his (in Lucas' defense, the fable about Ford ad-libbing "I know" because of Lucas' poor writing doesn't make sense, because Lucas didn't write the screenplay). It's also pretty well known that Lucas didn't really like ESB, and is one of the reasons he increased his creative input on ROTJ, to include working on the screenplay.

 

Now, with ROTJ, Lucas himself went on record as saying his advising to director Richard Marquand was only regarding special effects, to which Marquand had little experience. It wasn't a case, as some believe, of Lucas directing without filming the scenes himself. Every single shot was ultimately Marquand's call, and incorporated his directing style, not Lucas'.

 

Now I ask, in light of these verifiable, well-known facts, how can people fail to understand why we're so pissed off? That it is literally offensive that he's redone the works of others because, regardless of legality, he's messing with someone else's artwork?

 

You could probably make a valid argument for Episode IV if you really want to, but even then, the final product that came out in 1977 was the result of a dedicated crew of professionals that took his mishmash pile of film and made something amazing out of it. The special effects pioneers that worked on that film were positively brilliant, and their accomplishments are something that should be honored and cherished as changing the face of modern blockbuster moviemaking. But instead, all of their hard work has been brushed aside, practically erased from history, because Lucas decided that CGI is better.

 

And now he has the gall to be offended that people criticize him, when he's essentially criticized those honored filmmakers' work as not good enough.

Very well put. I think at this point, it's clear that Lucas wants to indoctrinate younger generations with the idea that *all* of the Star Wars films were *his* work alone. Honestly, I don't think that Lucas will stop messing with the OT films until he's in his coffin. We'll see.

[Sai-to]

Three things incredibly wrong with the Prequels:

 

1) Hayden Christiansen. He's a horrible actor and was a horrible choice for Anakin in 2-3.

 

2) Anakin blowing up the Droid command ship. Way too many "accidental" and coincidental BS.

 

3) Midichlorians. Lucas needed to add the scientific explanation of Midichlorians as well, instead of just the Fairy tale children's explanation Qui-gon gave to Anakin.

 

 

Generally I like the Prequels... but those 3 things really brought down the quality.

[Blakinik]

To the OP - Reason I hate the prequel, naming Ep 1 can be summed up in 3 words:

 

 

 

 

Jar

Jar

Binks

[ErikModi]

I like the prequels, though even I admit that TPM and AotC lacked something, some spark, that the OT had. RotS got it back.

 

Really, if you think about the story, it makes perfect sense. It's not even that complicated, it just takes a little mental exercise to follow Sidious' plan. I find it refreshing that he didn't look at the camera that start of Act III of RotS and say "Okay, this is what I've been up to so far:" We should be smart enough to figure all that out from the clues the movies give us.

 

Jar-Jar isn't even that annoying. He serves several useful purposes in the first two, and I miss him in Ep III.

 

Honestly, I think the main "problem" everyone has with the prequels is unreasonably high expectations. They expected the same sensation they had when they saw the first Star Wars for the first time, but, and pay attention, because this is important:

 

THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

The first Star Wars CHANGE THE FACE OF POPULAR CULTURE AROUND THE WORLD. It has become so ingrained in the collective conscious of humanity that it is pretty much tied with monotheism and democracy as the most prevalent concepts in the Western World.

 

No matter how good the prequels were, they were never going to have that same impact. It was just not possible, and expecting that was unfair.

 

Besides, no matter how BAD the prequels were, they were never going to be as bad as the Jedi Academy Trilogy or the Corellian Trilogy, or any of those other sucky, Zhan-ripoff novels that ruined the Star Wars EU.

[reaperkeepet]

 

Jar-Jar isn't even that annoying. He serves several useful purpos-

 

Ohohoh - no you don't lemme stop you right there sir.

Edited January 27, 2012 by reaperkeepet

[XjediXrf]

Anakin was basically Jesus with a lightsaber.

Midichlorians.

Jar Jar.

Cheesy love story.

 

I could go on.

Edited January 27, 2012 by XjediXrf

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Honestly, I think the main "problem" everyone has with the prequels is unreasonably high expectations. They expected the same sensation they had when they saw the first Star Wars for the first time, but, and pay attention, because this is important:

 

THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

Nope. That's not it. See my last post.

[Listerman]

The only one I honestly didn't like was Revenge of the Sith...But mostly because Hayden Christiansen phones it in as Anakin...not even pretending to appear like he gives a crap, and Ian McDiarmids portrayal of Palpatine after the fight with Mace Windu is just...Goofy and cartoonish.

[Emshwiller]

I am still disappointed that Lucas didn't try to make movies based on Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy. I read those books every year. Could've been epic.

 

I still remember going into the movie theatre and trying to get interested into a story about a trading dispute. The entire time I'm thinking... why does the Jedi Council care about this backwater planet? Why should I? Didn't we blow up a planet in the first 15 minutes of A New Hope?

 

Why is it so important the blockade is broken? What can't be traded that is so vital to the survival for either Naboo or its neighbouring systems? Why are the people of Naboo suffering while the blockade is in effect? They grow all their food off-planet now? Dont know, don't care.

 

Moving on to Tatoone, the armpit of the known universe. You are a Jedi Master. You are F-ing Liam Neeson. But you can't take little Anakin and his mom off-planet so he can become a Jedi because the bug-like slavemaster won't allow it. No, you can't interfere in the business of slave traders. Tatooine is a criminal enterprise ruled by Hutts. And you are F-ing Liam Neeson. But noo... Jedi Council would be upset so let's separate Anakin from his mom.

 

Instead of the grand tapestry of A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back we got a cleaning rag.

 

 

Emshwiller on Red Eclipse

Edited January 27, 2012 by Emshwiller

[Fizil]

I think a lot of the nerd-rage against the prequels is so intense because they aren't just bad Star Wars, they are bad movies. Look at the new Star Trek film, that was bad Star Trek, but it was a great movie. Thus, fans forgave the fact that is was a just a basic action flick, because it was a good one. On the other hand many of the TNG Star Trek movies suffer from the same problem the Prequels had: They were bad Star Trek AND bad movies.

[Tekkoclarky]

The answer to the topic is simple, "Bandwagon vocal minority nerd rage".

 

Only on the internet do you find ppl spewing the vitrol and unmitigated hate about the prequals to the point of wanting ppl to die IRL because of them. In reality these same ppl are at each SW celebration every year with an Anakin or Jar Jar costume on.

 

lolwut

 

I openly hate on the prequels with everyone I know, and they openly hate on them back.

 

The prequels were terrible, I don't know anyone who liked them. Part 3 was ok, but was still pretty bad.

 

I have a friend who will never forgive me for taking him to see part 2.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tekkoclarky

[smartalectwo]

I find it refreshing that he didn't look at the camera that start of Act III of RotS and say "Okay, this is what I've been up to so far:"

 

A little off-topic, but damn, I kind of wish he'd done that. Ian McDiarmid was great as the Emperor.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

lolwut

 

I openly hate on the prequels with everyone I know, and they openly hate on them back.

 

The prequels were terrible, I don't know anyone who liked them. Part 3 was ok, but was still pretty bad.

 

I have a friend who will never forgive me for taking him to see part 2.

 

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the mainstream response to the prequels is they are absolute garbage. Children and diehard fanboys are the exception, not the rule.