DPS Sorcerer / Sage needs a hard nerf

[dexvx]

This is coming from a 50 Sith Sorcerer.

 

The DPS tree does far too much damage in relation to the utility that the class has. With full epic PvP gear, you can literally kill anyone within the duration of your stun (which is about 3 GCD's) unless they use damage reduction cool-downs that far exceed the cool-downs you are using. We're not talking about some poor lvl 10 victim, but other lvl 50's with about half epic PvP gear. The damage output by a single sage/sorcerer literally outdoes two full epic geared healers (mainly due to the trauma mechanic being very effective of stopping heal scaling in PvP).

 

The way the classes are setup, it's far too difficult to remove utility abilities without affecting the other specs. The easiest way would be a flat damage nerf from coefficients. Something along the lines of a 30-50% drop in force power scaling as well as nerfing the base damage of some stacking abilities in the Madness tree.

[Maxxacre]

Oh. This thread again. Where have I heard this before? Allow me to be a psychic detective for a minute....

 

I predict a lot of people will reply to this thread by simply agreeing with you and saying that the Sorcerer/Sage is really OP. I predict a good amount of people will talk about this one time they saw a Sorcerer in a warzone and couldn't kill him. I predict a few people will come in here with logical arguments as to why crying about any class being OP at this point is stupid.

 

I don't say these things because there have been 1,000+ threads on this same exact topic already and it's getting old and predictable... I say these things because I'm a psychic. I swear.

[Niconogood]

This: http://imageshack.us/f/718/screenshot2011123103491.jpg/

[RangKer]

This is coming from a 50 Sith Sorcerer.

 

The DPS tree does far too much damage in relation to the utility that the class has. With full epic PvP gear, you can literally kill anyone within the duration of your stun (which is about 3 GCD's) unless they use damage reduction cool-downs that far exceed the cool-downs you are using. We're not talking about some poor lvl 10 victim, but other lvl 50's with about half epic PvP gear. The damage output by a single sage/sorcerer literally outdoes two full epic geared healers (mainly due to the trauma mechanic being very effective of stopping heal scaling in PvP).

 

The way the classes are setup, it's far too difficult to remove utility abilities without affecting the other specs. The easiest way would be a flat damage nerf from coefficients. Something along the lines of a 30-50% drop in force power scaling as well as nerfing the base damage of some stacking abilities in the Madness tree.

 

Which DPS tree? there are two; oh yeah and btw, these are only spectulations you have shared with us no real proof, just a bias opinion of a person claiming to be lv.50 with a SI:Sorc with the self righteous attitude of playing this game for more then a few years.

 

Please present all the facts and evidance on why the entire archtype need to be nerfed; oh just fyi, this can take up to and not including more then 2-3years and then, just then maybe you might have a case.

[dexvx]

Oh. This thread again. Where have I heard this before? Allow me to be a psychic detective for a minute....

 

I predict a lot of people will reply to this thread by simply agreeing with you and saying that the Sorcerer/Sage is really OP. I predict a good amount of people will talk about this one time they saw a Sorcerer in a warzone and couldn't kill him. I predict a few people will come in here with logical arguments as to why crying about any class being OP at this point is stupid.

 

I don't say these things because there have been 1,000+ threads on this same exact topic already and it's getting old and predictable... I say these things because I'm a psychic. I

swear.

 

It takes 3 days /played to level to 50, going the PvE route. Once there, if you do all the pvp dailies/weekly's, it will take about 2 weeks (with RNG) to get half epic gear. Then watch as you press 4 buttons (2345)* to have a high probability of winning over most other players of other classes. If you are a decent player and know and hotkey your other abilities, then you will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

Another thing with sorcerers (although this applies to all ranged classes, but moreso for sorcerers due to their utility) is the group scaling. 4 Sorcerers have far more target up-time than 4 melee (such as Marauders). They can focus fire easier and can rotate disables/CC's. The concept is similar to the Starcraft Zealot/Marine scaling, where having additional ranged (marines) scales more than linearly compared to melee (zealots) who scales less than linearly.

 

* Kudos to anyone who understands the WoW reference.

[Pashgan]

Nothing to worry about because there is no PvP at level 50 - only friendly switching area points on ilum.

[dexvx]

Which DPS tree? there are two; oh yeah and btw, these are only spectulations you have shared with us no real proof, just a bias opinion of a person claiming to be lv.50 with a SI:Sorc with the self righteous attitude of playing this game for more then a few years.

 

Please present all the facts and evidance on why the entire archtype need to be nerfed; oh just fyi, this can take up to and not including more then 2-3years and then, just then maybe you might have a case.

 

"Requiring Proof" was the main issue with WoW PvP. Developers required "more proof" to nerf certain classes. We had the whole druid/warrior debacle that lasted more than 3 seasons in TBC and the Death Knight debacle that lasted 3 seasons in WoTLK.

 

You are correct that there are no hard numbers. The actual coefficient of all the abilities (and possible diminishing returns) are not publically available. SW-TOR is simply too new. What can be a trend now can totally reverse itself. However, it doesn't take a hard mathematical analysis to realize points are abnormal.

 

Coefficients:

I'm currently looking at my Sith Sorcerer. My bonus scaling is:

 

564.9 bonus damage

430.6 bonus healing

 

So with the same stats, my damage scales better than healing. Therefore my damage abilities will scale faster than healing abilities. With the 30% trauma in PvP combat, healing will always be behind damage. If at this point in the game (Tier 1 Epic PvP loot), I can kill an approximately equally geared healer within 1 stun combo, then by the next tier of PvP gear, I wouldn't even need to stun to get a kill.

Edited December 31, 2011 by dexvx

[Draccman]

Really? My sorc damage feels very mediocre. Not that im complaining, I think madness spec is in a fine place damage/utility wise. Would like to see lightning be more bursty, the end talent does absolute crap damage (death field hits harder). Im happy playing madness spec, although I feel forced into it since lightning spec is pretty worthless. Burst spec without burst, lawl.

 

Sorcs dont need a nerf, go take a look at operative burst or those juggs/guardians who crit for 7k aoe with that force smash or whatever it is.

[Aidank]

This is coming from a 50 Sith Sorcerer.

 

The DPS tree does far too much damage in relation to the utility that the class has. With full epic PvP gear, you can literally kill anyone within the duration of your stun (which is about 3 GCD's) unless they use damage reduction cool-downs that far exceed the cool-downs you are using. We're not talking about some poor lvl 10 victim, but other lvl 50's with about half epic PvP gear. The damage output by a single sage/sorcerer literally outdoes two full epic geared healers (mainly due to the trauma mechanic being very effective of stopping heal scaling in PvP).

 

The way the classes are setup, it's far too difficult to remove utility abilities without affecting the other specs. The easiest way would be a flat damage nerf from coefficients. Something along the lines of a 30-50% drop in force power scaling as well as nerfing the base damage of some stacking abilities in the Madness tree.

 

Maybe I'm just bad or something, but could you please explain how exactly you're killing people in 3 gcds? I can't even put up my dots that quickly. I've never seen a sorcerer ever put up anywhere near the kind of damage you're describing.

 

 

 

And I agree that healing is behind, but it's behind against everyone, not just sorcerers. As a healing spec I have a much harder time outhealing mercenaries and operatives than I do sorcerers

Edited December 31, 2011 by Aidank

[Aamaretto]

This: http://imageshack.us/f/718/screenshot2011123103491.jpg/

 

Good sir! Do not be coming in here with these things you call "proof" and "facts"!

 

Anyway, on topic, the game is still young and there are many aspects that I expect will be balanced. Bioware is dealing with things - remember the slicing nerf from Tuesday? I expect a balance pass will be made. If it's that bad, it will probably happen sooner rather than later.

[ZeroNeutral]

I disagree with the OP entirely... other DPS classes can do the same.

[Aidank]

This: http://imageshack.us/f/718/screenshot2011123103491.jpg/

 

Their team was 3/4 sorcerers, and from looking at the scoreboard it looks like they significantly out-leveled your team and spent most of the game farming you guys. I seriously doubt that the outcome would have been any different if you were fighting the same people on their operatives or mercenaries.

[ZeroNeutral]

This: http://imageshack.us/f/718/screenshot2011123103491.jpg/

 

So, in other words, the most represented DPS class in that Warzone scored the top slots? Seems normal to me.

 

Get off it.

[dexvx]

Good sir! Do not be coming in here with these things you call "proof" and "facts"!

 

Anyway, on topic, the game is still young and there are many aspects that I expect will be balanced. Bioware is dealing with things - remember the slicing nerf from Tuesday? I expect a balance pass will be made. If it's that bad, it will probably happen sooner rather than later.

 

In general randomly topping warzones isn't proof in any sense. That was huttball, where the 3 tiered map is pretty ridiculous for ANY ranged that have half an inkling of perception on positioning. If you play a lot you can see all kinds of stupid combinations (I remember going 72-2 on a Retribution Paladin in AV).

 

Off topic, but I found the slicing nerf somewhat amusing in the approach.

[Lokits]

hello ? people are getting stunlocked to death

[Dashall]

It's still a bit early for me to say either way if they need a nerf or not, seems that way but I'll reserve judgement. One thing is for sure, they are rather popular:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l32/Dashel2/Popularclass.jpg

[Aidank]

Seriously, I would really like to know what you're doing that does that much damage in 3 gcds. If I've got a skill in my spell book i'm missing that does some insane amount of damage i'd like to know about it.

[dexvx]

Really? My sorc damage feels very mediocre. Not that im complaining, I think madness spec is in a fine place damage/utility wise. Would like to see lightning be more bursty, the end talent does absolute crap damage (death field hits harder). Im happy playing madness spec, although I feel forced into it since lightning spec is pretty worthless. Burst spec without burst, lawl.

 

Maybe I'm just bad or something, but could you please explain how exactly you're killing people in 3 gcds? I can't even put up my dots that quickly. I've never seen a sorcerer ever put up anywhere near the kind of damage you're describing.

 

Without expertise, your sorc will just fall over. It's pretty miserable for the first few days, tbh. However, once you get expertise gear, the scaling seems quite amazing (I'm not too sure why, mathematically it doesn't make sense to me yet).

 

I'm not endorsing said person, but you can check out this guy's PvP videos (Jedi Sage). Some of the stuff is a bit biased and cherry picked, but it's always amusing to watch, imo.

 

http://www.youtube.com/faction60#g/u

[Telaan]

This: http://imageshack.us/f/718/screenshot2011123103491.jpg/

 

Lol. The only thing that proves is that everyone's DPS is terrible in that warzone. A gunslinger or sniper of an equal level would've smoked the sorcerer's DPS without trying. Other classes are just as capable. Sorcerers are fine. I crush them regularly. They're easy to los and interrupt. Maybe try actually PvPing in a way that doesn't involve smashing your forehead against the keyboard. These threads are a collection of people who do just that, die, and then feel the need to tell the world how much it upsets them on the forums.

 

Since launch I have seen a thread asking for a nerf of literally every single class. The PvP forums are pathetic on the WoW scale already.

[Sheneria]

stop lying op

 

you have never played a sage/inquisitor if you think they are overpowerd.

 

prob. just got ownd by one cause you didn't use your rupt, break LOS or actually dps him down

 

if you want to see a op class try the imp agent/smuggler and tropper/BH which can dish out the amount of dmg you describe, while having more survivability.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Sheneria

[ckbPolaris]

stop lying op

 

you have never played a sage/inquisitor if you think they are overpowerd.

 

prob. just got ownd by one cause you didn't use your rupt, break LOS or actually dps him down

 

if you want to see a op class try the imp agent/smuggler and tropper/BH which can dish out the amount of dmg you describe, while having more survivability.

please take time to read his posts. thx.

[ZeroNeutral]

A Bounty Hunter just pulled 351k damage in this warzone... pls nerf?

[Telaan]

please take time to read his posts. thx.

 

That poster did and that poster is correct. The op is full of crap. The class is fine. His proposed fixes smell of troll.

[Aidank]

Without expertise, your sorc will just fall over. It's pretty miserable for the first few days, tbh. However, once you get expertise gear, the scaling seems quite amazing (I'm not too sure why, mathematically it doesn't make sense to me yet).

 

I'm not endorsing said person, but you can check out this guy's PvP videos (Jedi Sage). Some of the stuff is a bit biased and cherry picked, but it's always amusing to watch, imo.

 

http://www.youtube.com/faction60#g/u

 

 

I don't see how that exactly is a sorcerer problem, more an expertise problem.

 

But either way, you said that you were 3 shotting other level 50s that were decently geared.

 

Now I watched that video and couldn't find any sage pvp other than him ganking lowbies that for the most part weren't even attacking him. Hell, he did better on his level 11 sentinel than from what I saw on his sage.

[Sheneria]

please take time to read his posts. thx.

 

stop being naive