Please add damage meters

[GGTeMpLaR]

I need damage meters to fully enjoy raiding in this game. Edited December 31, 2011 by GGTeMpLaR

[Jhulae]

No.

 

Thank you.

[pu_nani]

No.

 

Thank you.

 

Why "No Thank you".

 

Think it's a nice suggestion, specially when it comes to the fact that

it could be implemented as an option, so not everyone like you had to have it activated.

 

Please do think about it, it does not have to be bad to make an environment for people who actually care to interest and play around with their classes as they will.

Edited December 31, 2011 by pu_nani

[MatTripp]

I hope to god they never add this. If you cant learn how to play your character then thats on you.

[krisslanza]

Why "No Thank you".

 

Think it's a nice suggestion, specially when it comes to the fact that

it could be implemented as an option, so not everyone like you had it activated.

 

Except it becomes a kind of requirement on its own. People who use them, look at them, and begin to judge people by their magical bars. If your bar isn't big enough, they'll probably kick you out, or begin to say you're a "n00b" and can't play your class right.

 

Nothing good comes from damage meters or any of that kind of stuff. It's all pure e-peen.

[GGTeMpLaR]

They can just have it like a scorescreen at the end of each boss like in warzones.

[imtrick]

Except it becomes a kind of requirement on its own. People who use them, look at them, and begin to judge people by their magical bars. If your bar isn't big enough, they'll probably kick you out, or begin to say you're a "n00b" and can't play your class right.

 

Nothing good comes from damage meters or any of that kind of stuff. It's all pure e-peen.

 

To be honest, if you're grouping with people who are big enough jerks to kick people based on meter readings, you're better off without them. That's not a problem with meters; it's a problem with people being jerks. They're going to be jerks with or without meters.

 

And your suggestion that it's all about ego is hogwash. Few things can teach you how to improve as effectively as being able to tell who's playing better than you are. That's what I love about them. If I see someone outperforming me on a meter, I've just found someone I can learn from. Without them, it's incredibly hard to tell who's good and who's just getting by.

 

I also think the OP is a troll, incidentally. Few subjects start flame wars like this one does, but I really wish we had meters.

Edited December 31, 2011 by imtrick

[Albinosmurf]

Damage meters become more important the longer games are out. Wow has some crappy dms for a long time that werent accurate for crap and ppl still functioned in raids. At this point a dm isn't needed at all but as the novelty of the game wears off damage meters will be a must

[Jhulae]

Except it becomes a kind of requirement on its own. People who use them, look at them, and begin to judge people by their magical bars. If your bar isn't big enough, they'll probably kick you out, or begin to say you're a "n00b" and can't play your class right.

 

Nothing good comes from damage meters or any of that kind of stuff. It's all pure e-peen.

 

Exactly. One of the worst things WoW added in my opinion.

[krisslanza]

To be honest, if you're grouping with people who are big enough jerks to kick people based on meter readings, you're better off without them. That's not a problem with meters; it's a problem with people being jerks. They're going to be jerks with or without meters.

 

And your suggestion that it's all about ego is hogwash. Few things can teach you how to improve as effectively as being able to tell who's playing better than you are. That's what I love about them. If I see someone outperforming me on a meter, I've just found someone I can learn from. Without them, it's incredibly hard to tell who's good and who's just getting by.

 

To each their own. My only experience with them majorly was back in WoW on a Ret Paladin. The tank did more DPS then me. There's not much to learn from that... other then I really hate the metagame...

[pu_nani]

Except it becomes a kind of requirement on its own. People who use them, look at them, and begin to judge people by their magical bars. If your bar isn't big enough, they'll probably kick you out, or begin to say you're a "n00b" and can't play your class right.

 

Nothing good comes from damage meters or any of that kind of stuff. It's all pure e-peen.

 

People judge as they will, judging by Damage meters will be one thing that might be the negative side of this perspective.

 

Yet still, there 'll be people judging you for anything else. Does not have to completely rely on one idea such as Damage Meters. People will still judge you as you are to them or w/e.

 

I do not think this will make it change that fact.

[GGTeMpLaR]

If WoW didn't have damage meters, I would have stopped playing it several years before I did, just saying.

 

If this game doesn't add damage meters soon, it will definitely be a design mistake.

Edited December 31, 2011 by GGTeMpLaR

[pu_nani]

Damage meters become more important the longer games are out. Wow has some crappy dms for a long time that werent accurate for crap and ppl still functioned in raids. At this point a dm isn't needed at all but as the novelty of the game wears off damage meters will be a must

 

Exactly what I was trying to point out.

It's not needed but yet still, it's not a bad idea when it comes to options.

[Desdecardo]

Not a bug, please Bioware, dont add.

[Maigrey]

Damage meters/addons in general, and macros are only really needed if they intend to make challenging content.

 

I prefer super complicated and difficult encounters, the more tools the players are given, the better the encounters can be.

 

 

The only reason to be against these tools, is if you are against challenging content.

 

I prefer to have to overcome the content, rather than the UI and raid members.

[GGTeMpLaR]

Not a bug, please Bioware, dont add.

 

No one said it was a bug. It's a luxury. Luxuries improve the quality of the game experience.

 

Of all the arguments I have read, there have been no cogent/sound arguments as to why damage meters shouldn't be added.

[derrate]

The only people that don't like dmg meters are clickers.

 

They're a valuable resource that help you diagnose problems in your gameplay and provide another amusing way to compete with friends.

 

Oh and protip: You don't need meters to figure out which group member is bad. You're not hiding by not having them.

Edited December 31, 2011 by derrate

[krisslanza]

Damage meters/addons in general, and macros are only really needed if they intend to make challenging content.

 

I prefer super complicated and difficult encounters, the more tools the players are given, the better the encounters can be.

 

 

The only reason to be against these tools, is if you are against challenging content.

 

I prefer to have to overcome the content, rather than the UI and raid members.

 

Or those who know enough about WoW that this kind of thing, usually leaves half your screen cluttered in various "add-ons" you need to do that kind of stuff.

[derrate]

Uh yea my customizable WoW UI was far less cluttered than this default one.

 

I can't make my bars invisible and only show cooldowns. It's really annoying.

[drealmer]

I just want a combat log so I can go back and see what my highest crit was (as well as turn off the bloody annoying fly text, or at least shrink the font), can we get that before we get fancy speedomaters?

[GlowRage]

Damage meters are not inherently a bad thing. They're incredibly useful if and when you are stuck on a raid boss. They can show you who is underperforming, and a good meter can not only show you who, but why. Maybe someone is not using the correct cast rotation for optimal dps, or are simply not casting enough during an encounter.

 

While it can be used as a way to make fun of people and wave your e-peen, there actually is a legitimate use for combat logs and damage meters, as well as macro support. If the game doesn't have these, encounters cannot be tuned as finely because players have to rely on the default UI and are not forced to push their dps to the limit to defeat raid bosses.

[Scryer]

One one side. Damage meters offer a healthy way for players to compete against each other and to improve their damage, that's what they where primarily designed for, to help players improve.

 

On the other side, it allows elitism to grow and offers a handy tool for them to kick unwanted players, much like GearScore back in the day.

 

Both arguments are valid in their own way, but you can't have one without the other. It all depends on the situation, you can't throw away a very useful feature on the slim basis that it would be used for abuse.

 

I say give us damage meters, but with the option to hide your own damage from other players, that way you can avoid potential ridicule whilst at the same time, using it to improve.

[Karhald]

Have a seat son, right over there.

 

No, no, just sit down, I need to tell you something very important, important to raiding, important to your dps, and important to the success of your team.

 

Damage meters are bad. Trust me, no... sit down, please, just sit down and hear me out. They're bad. They encourage bad behavior, they encourage bad attitudes, and they encourage bad play.

 

Yes, yes, I know, they tell you who did the most damage, but there's something else they can tell you, if you dig deep enough, and if the meter is comprehensive enough. They tell you who didn't do their job, but still had a very high 'score'.

 

Just hear me out, son, just hear me out. No, I'm not defending my own play, I'm a tank, I don't care about damage, I care about threat, and that I'm the one holding it, so you don't get squished into space-jelly. Okay? Good, sit down and listen to a few scenarios.

 

First: Damage meters are good in only one type of boss fight. The tank and spank with enrage timers. Nothing else happens in this fight, it's a dps race. These are the most basic of boss fights, and any good raid has zero of these. Maybe one in the center as a gear check, but those fights are boring, it's everyone spamming abilities as hard and fast as possible, no movement, no joy, no fun... It's like spending the night with your mother.

 

Second: Boss fights with adds that need to be taken down as fast as possible, preferably by ranged dps, while melee keeps working on the boss. Meters = BAD BAD BAD! Here, the ranged needs to swap targets often and work down adds quickly, while melee stays on the boss. Swapping targets and moving to get into range often means a loss of dps. This translates into a poor performance on the meters, even though the ranged were doing great at their jobs. Looking only at the meters though, people yell at ranged for doing poorly. The ranged WHO DO NOT SWAP, AND ONLY DPS THE BOSS, maintain high positions on the meter. They didn't do their job, but they have better 'performance' on the charts. See the problem? No? The problem is that if not all ranged kill the adds, then the ranged who actually DO THEIR JOBS get overwhelmed too quickly, and the raid wipes. Who is to blame? The ranged who did not switch targets, but are high on the meters.

 

Third: Kiting boss fight. Meters = super bad, like really really horribly bad. Threat meters are great though! Boss has to be constantly on the move, he drops puddles of evil at his feet, he might use a channelled raid-wipe ability if he stands still too long, whatever, he's gotta keep moving, and it's the tanks job to keep him moving. A moving tank causes far less threat than a stationary one. DPS that don't keep themselves in check WILL STEAL AGGRO and wipe the raid. And no, it's not the tanks fault. You couldn't control yourself in interest of keeping a position on the meter, and YOU WIPED THE RAID. But hey, you're #1 on the meters. Good for you, I'll be sending you my repair bills.

 

 

Fourth: Boss does bad stuff (many ways this happens): Circles of evil hurtiness appear on the ground. Could be fire, could be acid, could be the cool kids who made fun of you in elementary school. Bad stuff appears, you have 2 seconds to move or bad stuff makes your dps drop to ZERO for the rest of the fight. But you're staring at the meter, and not looking at your surroundings. You are SOO CLOSE TO BEING NUMBER ONE!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!! JUST KEEP SPAMMING 1,2,3!!!! But.. oh, crap... you died from fire/acid/twilight fans. If you had moved, you would still be alive and dpsing. But, you had to maintain your rotation for .3seconds longer to top the meters! Oh... dang, now you're dead, and the rest of the dps need to pick up your slack in order to beat the boss before the enrage timer. Shoulda been watching your feet, and not the meter, eh?

 

There are more boss fights and scenarios I could define, but those are the top 4. The only fight that favors damage meters is a gear check fight where there is only one of that type of fight in an entire raid.

 

 

 

 

TLDR: Tank says meters are bad at least 3/4ths of the time.

 

Hey! Wake up, story is over. yeah, meters are bad, now learn how to play an effective member of a team, and stop worrying about a silly metric!

Edited December 31, 2011 by Karhald

[derrate]

Damage meters are a tool. Some people don't use a wrench correctly.

 

Does that mean the hardware store shouldn't sell wrenches? No.

 

And yes you wasted your time writing that giant post. I invalidated it all in less than 10 seconds.

Edited December 31, 2011 by derrate

[GlowRage]

TLDR: Tank says meters are bad at least 3/4ths of the time.

 

It's not a silly metric though. Boss fights nearly always have some sort of enrage timer to prevent battles of attrition. If players are not doing optimal dps, a raid will wipe to the enrage. While it's true that very few fights rely simply on doing maximum dps and not moving at all, the sign of a good player is one who can still maximize their dps while moving, avoiding area effects, etc.

 

DPS meters are also a direct result of something else that is infinitely more important - combat logs. While many people do tend to focus on the dps aspect of the logs, they can also show who was hit by what effects, and how many times. Parsing these logs is invaluable when attempting to learn a new boss, as it can show who is not avoiding unecessary damage, or who is forgetting to cast certain buffs/debuffs/dispells/etc.