Romanceable characters

[LadyNightArrow]

By the way, I mean no disrespect towards anyone, much less the LGBTers, but the main point of my original post is this:

 

Adding romance questlines to already existing companions that weren't given one for vanilla SW:TOR.

 

Remember this is my opinion and my opinion only. I have no delusion that my opinion = fact. That being said...

 

I will have to disagree with making all of the current romanceable options/companions Bi. Having a same gender attraction on any level just doesn't seem to fit with the character/personality of some of the companions. Some of them I can't really put a finger on why I feel making them be romance options to the male and female roles of each class wouldn't work, it just wouldn't. If I do have a reason why I chose what I did for each, it's noted. Also, sometimes you really can't tell if what a person's preference is by looking at them or hearing them talk for five minutes. Sometimes, it takes actually getting to know a person. Not that I know these characters very well...but you get the idea.

 

Just as an example, and I'm only going to mention the characters I or my husband have run across so far...

 

Jedi Consular:

Theran Cedrex: Bi/Gay. Could be the reason he has a holographic girlfriend...Just speculation of course.

 

Trooper:

Aric Jorgan: Bi/Gay/Straight... As of where I am in the game, he's probably the hardest to figure out, on the Republic side.

Elara Dorne: Straight. Personally, I think she's too conservative for anything else, as of right now anyway. (I actually had her in my party when I was on Nar Shaddaa. She really doesn't like it when your Trooper goes against regulation and flirts with the SIS agent. I did it just to piss her off. )

 

Bounty Hunter:

Mako: To be honest, she comes across as being a little sister to even be a romance option. That aside, I would say straight.

 

Smuggler:

Corso Riggs: Straight. It could be his good ol'boy attitude, or the fact that with him it seems to be "what you see is what you get", I don't know, but it just seems to me that he doesn't come across as being into men. Though, this could change.

Risha: Bi or just straight-up lesbian. She mentions having a history with an NPC on Taris. At this point, that could mean anything. Until I see what BioWare's future plans are with this char, I'm going with partners in crime.

 

Imperial Agent:

Kaliyo: Iffy/Bi. Of the characters I've run across this far in the game, she is the hardest to figure out. At least on the Sith side.

 

Again, what I have listed is merely speculation from someone who likes to write and pays attention to the character of people, fiction and non-fiction. To state the obvious, a lot of these characters have current story lines and personalities that could progress as the game progresses. It will be really interesting to see what BioWare has in mind for them.

 

Behind the scenes: 1- I wonder if BioWare already has some script written for future romance interactions. 2- It wouldn't surprise me if BioWare already has voice actors all lined up and ready to go for future story lines. 3- I understand this is a business and BioWare needs to do what is most financially beneficial to them (after all, if the company takes a financial hit because of a bad decision, future content will most likely not happen). If that means making the current companions/romance options Bi, so be it. 4- It doesn't matter how well a game is made or what changes are implemented , people will still complain. Not everyone can be satisfied.

 

Note: Sorry about the size of the font. My eyes are getting old.

Edited February 10, 2012 by LadyNightArrow

[Alexthree]

Romance in this game is bizarre. Through one method or another your companions are basically forced to be with you at all times and you have total control over their impressions of you. It would be a little more interesting if you could permanently fail and eliminate any possibility of romance. But no, even if you murder that building full of helpless babies you can just give her a hundred pieces of republic memorabilia (THAT YOU MADE HER GO GET FOR YOU) and the next thing you know she will gladly accept a baby murderer.

 

How dull, reducing romance to a progress bar. Rather than complain about the lack of LGBT options how about you complain about the shallow nature of the system in its entirety?

 

 

It would be nice if romantic options could have affection be separated from romance...

 

Maybe even adding a second bar, though that goes against what you just said.

 

 

Friendship bar, romance bar. Maybe you could like... uncheck romance bar,.. if you not into him/her...

[Myschief]

While I would like to see more romance options, I do not think it is appropiate storywise for most classes.

 

Jedi: Passion leads to the Dark Side

 

Trooper: Soldiers should not be fraternizing with their subordinates.

 

Sith: Romances produce attachments for enemies to exploit. Passion should only used to achieve power.

 

Agent: A lover is a tool or a liablity, usually both.

 

As for same sex romances, I do not see that happening until all six movies have their theatrical 3D run. Biowares cannot afford to endanger Lucas' bottom line and same sex romances will. Granted, same sex romances will not cost Lucas as much money as his lawyers will claim, but the litigation will cost Bioware everything.

[Wittand]

BioWare already said that they will add SGRAs.

From an unofficial source (a poster on the old forum, claiming to have talked with a developer during last year´s PAX east) we learned that SGRAs were already worked on at that time (and that Lucas Arts had given the OK) back then.

 

As far as generally adding romances (no matter the orientation) goes, this seems pretty hard to do since even minor flirts still require a reason for the player to talk to the NPC in question (in other words the NPC must be a questgiver, or be otherwise involved in a questline). Anything that really can be called a romance and therefore requires multiple talks between the NPC and the PC can only really happen during the class quest itself and any additions there can only come with a new chapter since changing a chapter storyline while thousands of players play it sounds like a nightmare.

 

So somehow additions seem of the table until patch 2.0 and that one seems not to be coming in the foreseeable future.

 

The only way romantic content can be added anytime soon would be by adding romance options to existing NPCs. And even in that case BioWare must already be working on them since otherwise it would be several months before there is any hope to see them come live.

 

I really hope that we will at least get an update on when/how romantic options will be added/changed/whatever soon, since the available romances do affect the characters that I play and information would help deciding whether to start my smuggler or not (no point waiting if only high level content gets added in the next six months, no point starting now if low level content gets added in the next two months)

Edited January 9, 2012 by Wittand

[Cartumandua]

 

 

 

 

 

Smuggler:

Corso Riggs: Straight. It could be his good ol'boy attitude, or the fact that with him it seems to be "what you see is what you get", I don't know, but it just seems to me that he doesn't come across as being into men. Though, this could change.

 

Seriously? The dude gets jealous anytime you talk to a woman! And some of his dialogue just screams "I want a manwich!" Just saying.

[BrigOrion]

BioWare already said that they will add SGRAs.

From an unofficial source (a poster on the old forum, claiming to have talked with a developer during last year´s PAX east) we learned that SGRAs were already worked on at that time (and that Lucas Arts had given the OK) back then.

 

And whatshisface the producer firmly stated at this year's E3 that there were no same sex romances in TOR. Then went directly on to the next question.

 

Only a fool would believe that BigotWare is actually going to add this to the game.

 

Edit: My bad, it wasn't E3, but GamesCom in August. If they had been working on adding SGRAs or even had plans for them then Cory Butler would have said something. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZH610XP1es

Edited January 9, 2012 by BrigOrion

[aharris]

First off, to the poster who stated that there was no taboo to homosexuality or bi-sexuality in the DA2 universe. That's all well and good, but just because there's no prejudice against it doesn't mean that the actual numbers of homosexuals and bi-sexuals in the world has changed any. Throughout human society, the number of gays has remained pretty constant as a percentage of the population whether the societies in question have had taboos against homosexual behavior or not. So, the idea that just because there's no taboo against that sort of behavior means that everyone happens to swing both ways does not necessarily follow logically.

 

Second, I remember reading on the DA2 forums that the characters were not designed bi-sexual so much as they intended to be more ambi-sexual meaning that they were intended to play out with the sexual orientation the player desired them to have. Meaning, if I played through as a straight female and flirted and romanced Anders, he was supposed to come off as a totally straight male. And, from convos I had on that forum, I know that there is at least one line that females who romanced him didn't get that males who romanced him did. For males, he mentioned that Karl was his "first." I don't recall him saying that to my female character although he did talk about how he and Karl were friends. Isabela, on the other hand, was openly bi.

 

Now, IME, I've noticed that we straights have a much harder time with the idea of gay romances for the most part than gays have with the idea of straight romances. I'll chalk that up to gays being more flexible in their sexuality. Suffice it to say, it's not because I have a problem with gays; it is because I don't enjoy seeing gay erotica. For me, it's about as exciting as say watching my parents get it on would be. So, I don't want the option in my games, and sometimes, even seeing the possibility of the option is enough to set my mind wandering in that direction which can be a little off-putting.

 

So, I agree that the best possibility would be to have the means to turn the switch off at character creation by telling the game at the outset what preference your character will have. Or, barring that, I would prefer the old-fashioned way of writing characters that have clearly defined sexual preferences. I understand that this limits all of us unless we're willing to play characters of different genders and orientations, but I'd rather the options be clearly written as gay, straight and bi instead of ambi-sexual. It bother me far less to have the awkward moment when my gay or bi crewmate hits on me to test the waters and we set things straight than it does to forever be seeing flirt options in my dialogue tree for a crewmate with whom that option would be inappropriate for me.

 

Yes, WALL OF TEXT.

 

No, there is no tl;dr version. Stop being lazy.

[DrMelhattan]

 

/cut for WALL OF TEXT.

 

No, there is no tl;dr version. Stop being lazy.

 

There is so, so much wrong with that post I can't even...

 

But I won't get into it because I feel the thread has been derailed enough already.

 

Anyway, I am not really enamored with the whole companion/affection system in general. Every time they're in a party with me I feel pressured to make dialogue choices that cater to their sensibilities, unless I want to spend ungodly amounts of money buying them gifts to win them over.

 

I also feel that the female romance options are a little bland and underdeveloped. Hopefully they intend to flesh these out a bit more in the future, in addition to including SGRA.

Edited January 9, 2012 by DrMelhattan

[BrigOrion]

First off, to the poster who stated that there was no taboo to homosexuality or bi-sexuality in the DA2 universe. That's all well and good, but just because there's no prejudice against it doesn't mean that the actual numbers of homosexuals and bi-sexuals in the world has changed any. Throughout human society, the number of gays has remained pretty constant as a percentage of the population whether the societies in question have had taboos against homosexual behavior or not. So, the idea that just because there's no taboo against that sort of behavior means that everyone happens to swing both ways does not necessarily follow logically.

 

Second, I remember reading on the DA2 forums that the characters were not designed bi-sexual so much as they intended to be more ambi-sexual meaning that they were intended to play out with the sexual orientation the player desired them to have. Meaning, if I played through as a straight female and flirted and romanced Anders, he was supposed to come off as a totally straight male. And, from convos I had on that forum, I know that there is at least one line that females who romanced him didn't get that males who romanced him did. For males, he mentioned that Karl was his "first." I don't recall him saying that to my female character although he did talk about how he and Karl were friends. Isabela, on the other hand, was openly bi.

 

Now, IME, I've noticed that we straights have a much harder time with the idea of gay romances for the most part than gays have with the idea of straight romances. I'll chalk that up to gays being more flexible in their sexuality. Suffice it to say, it's not because I have a problem with gays; it is because I don't enjoy seeing gay erotica. For me, it's about as exciting as say watching my parents get it on would be. So, I don't want the option in my games, and sometimes, even seeing the possibility of the option is enough to set my mind wandering in that direction which can be a little off-putting.

 

So, I agree that the best possibility would be to have the means to turn the switch off at character creation by telling the game at the outset what preference your character will have. Or, barring that, I would prefer the old-fashioned way of writing characters that have clearly defined sexual preferences. I understand that this limits all of us unless we're willing to play characters of different genders and orientations, but I'd rather the options be clearly written as gay, straight and bi instead of ambi-sexual. It bother me far less to have the awkward moment when my gay or bi crewmate hits on me to test the waters and we set things straight than it does to forever be seeing flirt options in my dialogue tree for a crewmate with whom that option would be inappropriate for me.

 

Yes, WALL OF TEXT.

 

No, there is no tl;dr version. Stop being lazy.

 

It bothers me to forever be seeing flirt options in my dialogue tree for a NPC or companion with whom that option would be inappropriate for me, but that is all TOR gives me.

 

And, by the way, I am no more flexible in my sexuality than you are in yours.

[salaryman]

What is so ironic with this thread (and others) is how many people come out of the woodwork to voice their homophobic or anti-feminist views, but these same people have no problem with options in dialogue trees like lying, manipulating, murdering innocents, or the preponderance of Twilek slaves all over the place.

 

Apparently people have no problem with incessant murder and slavery in the game as long as two women aren't allowed to flirt with each other.

[Vyron_Deckard]

While I would like to see more romance options, I do not think it is appropiate storywise for most classes.

 

It's perfectly appropriate.

 

Jedi: Passion leads to the Dark Side

 

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled, but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, that's what they should teach you to beware, but love itself will save, not condemn you." - Jolee Bindo

 

Trooper: Soldiers should not be fraternizing with their subordinates.

 

What if I don't give a ****? *renegade Shepard*

 

Sith: Romances produce attachments for enemies to exploit. Passion should only used to achieve power.

 

The Sith discourage love mainly because it can lead to positive emotions like mercy & self sacrifice. They don't rule it out completely. Plenty of Sith lords have had lovers.

 

Agent: A lover is a tool or a liablity, usually both.

 

Assuming every agent is a cold blooded machine. Ideally they should be. But that's for the individual player to decide.

 

My point is; Ultimately it's up to the player to decide whether or not to pursue a romance or not, to follow the protocol / code/ rules or not. The most important thing here is giving the player the choice.

[Potaytoz]

 

Now, IME, I've noticed that we straights have a much harder time with the idea of gay romances for the most part than gays have with the idea of straight romances. I'll chalk that up to gays being more flexible in their sexuality. Suffice it to say, it's not because I have a problem with gays; it is because I don't enjoy seeing gay erotica. For me, it's about as exciting as say watching my parents get it on would be. So, I don't want the option in my games, and sometimes, even seeing the possibility of the option is enough to set my mind wandering in that direction which can be a little off-putting.

 

So, I agree that the best possibility would be to have the means to turn the switch off at character creation by telling the game at the outset what preference your character will have. Or, barring that, I would prefer the old-fashioned way of writing characters that have clearly defined sexual preferences. I understand that this limits all of us unless we're willing to play characters of different genders and orientations, but I'd rather the options be clearly written as gay, straight and bi instead of ambi-sexual. It bother me far less to have the awkward moment when my gay or bi crewmate hits on me to test the waters and we set things straight than it does to forever be seeing flirt options in my dialogue tree for a crewmate with whom that option would be inappropriate for me.

 

 

Wait, wait, wait.

 

What?

 

Gays are more flexible in their sexuality? Really? As far as I know, they also prefer one sex over the other. Just because it's not the same one you prefer doesn't change their flexibility in sexuality.

 

And you would take away roleplaying potential from ALL THE REST OF US who don't have issues with it because YOU don't like it? Even though no one is making you choose it. Just seeing the potential makes you squeamish? I don't like the idea of killing old people, but the options are there, and one character or another may do it. Even if mine don't... others' characters might. Why should my preferences override the collective potential of preferences?

 

I'm fine with setting the matter straight early on, but that doesn't mean it should not be there, period.

 

Anywho, I like the affection system, but since I can't reload a savegame, I feel much less beholden to my companions' views. And if I do say something I didn't mean to, I can just hit ESC and try again.

 

Edit:

 

Also, females only get one non-human romance. Males get much more racial variety. Not cool, brotato chips. I want man-twi'leks.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Potaytoz

[jpetree]

I agree - I really wish Zenith was a romance option. His personality is amazing! He's exactly the kind of character I like. It would be nice if Tharan was too, but Zenith is a far bigger loss. Plus, Iresso is human. It's just more fun to romance aliens than humans. Maybe, they will make him a romance option in the future. If they do, I will replay the entire Consular class. LOL

[Kashard]

As a gay guy myself, id love to have Nadia turned off, no matter how u go though the conversations, now matter how many times I press escape I cant escape the whorage

Gave in after awhile and got the free 819 affection points for saying what she wanted but still.

 

LET ME TURN THE WHORE OFF!

[Zandilar]

Now, IME, I've noticed that we straights have a much harder time with the idea of gay romances for the most part than gays have with the idea of straight romances. I'll chalk that up to gays being more flexible in their sexuality. Suffice it to say, it's not because I have a problem with gays; it is because I don't enjoy seeing gay erotica. For me, it's about as exciting as say watching my parents get it on would be. So, I don't want the option in my games, and sometimes, even seeing the possibility of the option is enough to set my mind wandering in that direction which can be a little off-putting.

 

I'm sorry, but this made me LOL. The reason why homosexuals have an easier time of accepting heterosexual romances is because from the day we're born we're bombarded with images of heterosexuality. It is omnipresent in our lives - and we're never taught that it's wrong or harmful, unlike homosexuality. So over time we just come to accept it as "the way things are", and have very few problems with it.

 

This, by the way, is why visibility is so important, because it helps people to understand that homosexuality is a normal variant, and not some kind of immoral abomination to be feared. The day homosexuality is completely accepted as normal is the day straights will stop having problems with it.

 

Anyway, the romances in this game could hardly be said to constitute erotica. I hate to sound callous, but if you have problems with even the possibility that your characters could have same sex romances (even if you never clicked the [flirt] option) - you need to build a bridge and get over it. I've long since gotten over the fact that the [flirt] options are never appropriate for my lesbian Imperial Agent, and am now waiting patiently for the promised SGRAs to be put in (and hoping that I won't need to re-roll my Agent to experience them).

 

So, I agree that the best possibility would be to have the means to turn the switch off at character creation by telling the game at the outset what preference your character will have.

 

No. This is not the best possibility, on its own this will never be anything other than homophobic. The only way it would be acceptable (and non-homophobic) is if there was a toggle for heterosexual romances as well.

 

Addressing the rest of that paragraph, which I have not quoted - Sexuality is never set in stone for an outside observer - only the person you're looking at knows for sure what their sexuality is, and even then they might not be 100% sure. The only thing I've got to offer as proof of this is my own experience, and I'm still a little confused despite being mostly out since 17 (and I turn 40 this week).

Edited January 9, 2012 by Zandilar

[TOBY_FLENDERSON]

Romance? What romance, Kira still won't talk to me.

[sidiousj]

anyone known how many affection points it takes for ur companion to fall in love with u? if it takes a whole 10000 then its just not worth it

[Morbidxiix]

Your points are valid.. This is not a rant but a friendly suggestion. You defended your argument well.. I have yet to get into the lore of the game but I hope i can role play a bit with some c haracters.

[TheDancingHare]

I was absolutely convinced Zenith would be the romance option. When I had a sneaky look at some portraits of the Consular companions he was the one I thought HAD to be it. Sadly it was not to be. I haven't met the Trooper yet but ... I'm already accidentally infatuated with Zenith!

 

You guys are killing me here, haha. My female Twi'lek Jedi is totally in love with Zenith. I really can't have him? It makes me want to shelf her until he's patched in

[Myschief]

It's perfectly appropriate.

 

 

 

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled, but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, that's what they should teach you to beware, but love itself will save, not condemn you." - Jolee Bindo

 

How many Jedi lives were lost because of Bindo's love for his wife?

 

 

What if I don't give a ****? *renegade Shepard*

 

Then you should be stripped of your rank (if not removed from service or fragged) for sexual harassment. Even an innocent and sincere comment can be viewed as an inplied threat if the difference in power/autority is great enough. Does Elara realy believe that an Imperial turncoat will be believed over the commander of Havoc Squad?

 

The Sith discourage love mainly because it can lead to positive emotions like mercy & self sacrifice. They don't rule it out completely. Plenty of Sith lords have had lovers.

 

Would you trust a Sith as a lover?

 

Assuming every agent is a cold blooded machine. Ideally they should be. But that's for the individual player to decide.

 

And the Agent's lover should be found dead in a hanger when the Agent returns from a mission.

 

My point is; Ultimately it's up to the player to decide whether or not to pursue a romance or not, to follow the protocol / code/ rules or not. The most important thing here is giving the player the choice.

 

If there were consequences to those choices I might agree with you.

 

If Sith and Agent lover's where found dead, I might agree with you.

 

If the Jedi was banished from the Order if caught, I might agree with you.

 

If the Trooper gained Dark Side for every unsolicated flirtation I might agree with you.

 

If the Jedi or Trooper lost a lover as a companion I might agree with you.

 

If a companion could permanately kill a character in response to unwanted sexual harassment I might agree with you.

[Zandilar]

If there were consequences to those choices I might agree with you.

 

If Sith and Agent lover's where found dead, I might agree with you.

 

If the Jedi was banished from the Order if caught, I might agree with you.

 

If the Trooper gained Dark Side for every unsolicated flirtation I might agree with you.

 

If the Jedi or Trooper lost a lover as a companion I might agree with you.

 

If a companion could permanately kill a character in response to unwanted sexual harassment I might agree with you.

 

Can you even see how this is going too far? We're not playing this game to be tormented, we're playing the game to have fun. It's not reality, and even in reality trying to say that all spies' loved ones are killed and all soldiers engaging in flirtation or romance will loose their berths/commissions is just ridiculous. Many soldiers* have fulfilling relationships with their spouses/lovers (some of those being other soldiers*) without being kicked from the military. Many spies are married and have lives outside their jobs, and never come home to find their loved ones dead.

 

Let us have our fun. If it really bothers you, don't let your character engage in a romance.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Zandilar

[Shadowtirs]

I think some of the posters here have SERIOUS issues that a video game forum isn't going to solve anytime soon >.>.

 

It's pretty simple folks, let me break it down;

 

If you like romance-able characters, you appreciate the game bringing in that authentic cinematic quality to it. Also it's another vehicle for character development. After all, Star Wars HAS romance in it. So bringing it into the game only seems to make sense.

 

If you DON'T like romance-able characters, then, DON'T flirt with them. It's a purely optional part of the game and if you're not into that type of thing then just omit it. No skin off your back.

 

If you're using this as an excuse to peddle your sexist/homophobic ideology, ****. It's a VIDEO GAME. Go turn on Pat Robertson or join those crazies in Oklahoma who protest soldier's funerals because they don't like gay people.

 

As for me? I'm going to enjoy tapping that pixalated piece of ***** in my ship. Saving the galaxy is stressful but there's always time for a good ole fashion.

[Poimandres]

It's a VIDEO GAME. Go turn on Pat Robertson or join those crazies in Oklahoma who protest soldier's funerals because they don't like gay people.

 

Thought that was Kansas?

 

Anyhow, I see that the mod recently closed a similar thread with Mr. Reid's statement. In my case I am glad that there will be content expansions of many types, some of which I will like, some of which I won't, undoubtedly.

 

As for the furor --

A lot of people (of whatever flavor) seem to get the same jollies out of forum comments that they do out of PVP. I just write them off as someone who's upset that they can't beat my characters in normal PVP and have to rely on forum warfare.

[Moitteva]

Hey Everyone

 

We have now reopened this thread. We have removed some posts because they were off-topic to the original subject.

 

We welcome both positive and negative comments as long as they remain on-topic and constructive. Please be kind to your fellow forum members when posting. If you have not seen it yet, we'd like to point you to Allison Berryman's recent post on feedback and the forums.

 

If you have any further questions, please see our Rules of Conduct for a reminder of our forum rules and guidelines.

 

Thank you for your patience.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Moitteva

[DarthOrchus]

Uuugh who bloody cares! I would much rather have a meaningful and fun PvP portion of the game than be able to have relationships with my crew. I have relationships in my actual life; why the hell would I need to have fake ones in a freaking game? I NEVER even consider trying to seduce one of my crewmates because its just pointless from a gameplay standpoint. But since its Bioware, they have some obsession with character romances, which many of you people seem to share. It seems to me they spent more time on meaningless garbage like crew romance story lines than they spent on making actually important features of the game, like PvP. Instead, you can have sex with a Twi'lek, but here I am at level 21 and the only PvP I have participated in is freaking Huttball, the most un-Star Wars nonsense I've ever seen. Pathetic. Edited January 10, 2012 by DarthOrchus