Juggernaut critique and suggestions

[Gyrovague]

Currently level 33. I know a lot of this has been said in different places but wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

 

Too Many Buttons

I'll have to agree with the people who have been saying this. I like complex rotations, but lots of similar buttons on long cooldowns is not complex in an interesting way. It's just cluttered. Solutions:

1) Collapse Assault and Sundering Strike into one ability.

2) Do we really need 3 long-ish damage cooldowns? (Force Choke, Pommel Strike, Backhand.) Yes, they have slightly different uses, but not enough to warrant different buttons. Put Force Choke on a 30 second cooldown and give it high threat generation (even if the target is immune to the incapacitation).

 

Mobility an Issue

In a world of blaster-wielding opponents, being a melee tank is a PITA. (Unbelievable how many NPC mobs use a slowing ranged shot.)

Suggestions:

1) Trade Force Push and Force Pull with Inquisitors. Duh.

2) Make Taunt cause a tech malfunction for 2 seconds (maybe with a talent in the Immortal tree) so that ranged mobs will tend to run toward you.

 

Targeting Opaque

Frequently I can't tell if a mob is targeting me or a friend, particularly when using blasters. I can see a friend is taking damage but I can't even tell who is doing it.

Suggestions:

1) Implement a target-of-target

2) Enable something for unit frames that tells you if an aggroed mob is targeting you or somebody else. Tanks and non-tanks could toggle between the two.

[Aniliss]

Currently level 33. I know a lot of this has been said in different places but wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

 

Too Many Buttons

I'll have to agree with the people who have been saying this. I like complex rotations, but lots of similar buttons on long cooldowns is not complex in an interesting way. It's just cluttered. Solutions:

1) Collapse Assault and Sundering Strike into one ability.

2) Do we really need 3 long-ish damage cooldowns? (Force Choke, Pommel Strike, Backhand.) Yes, they have slightly different uses, but not enough to warrant different buttons. Put Force Choke on a 30 second cooldown and give it high threat generation (even if the target is immune to the incapacitation).

 

Mobility an Issue

In a world of blaster-wielding opponents, being a melee tank is a PITA. (Unbelievable how many NPC mobs use a slowing ranged shot.)

Suggestions:

1) Trade Force Push and Force Pull with Inquisitors. Duh.

2) Make Taunt cause a tech malfunction for 2 seconds (maybe with a talent in the Immortal tree) so that ranged mobs will tend to run toward you.

 

Targeting Opaque

Frequently I can't tell if a mob is targeting me or a friend, particularly when using blasters. I can see a friend is taking damage but I can't even tell who is doing it.

Suggestions:

1) Implement a target-of-target

2) Enable something for unit frames that tells you if an aggroed mob is targeting you or somebody else. Tanks and non-tanks could toggle between the two.

 

Your 1st two paragraphs aren't valid problems imo. Just sounds like you need to mess around with your Sith Jugg more to get familiar with it. As for your last paragraph in reference to the target - target, that's a must imo. Your #2 in the last paragraphs sounds like you've gotten use to WoW after they implemented the aggro warning. Just practice to be more aware and have your camera zoomed out to max to see the entire field.

[Gyrovague]

Your 1st two paragraphs aren't valid problems imo. Just sounds like you need to mess around with your Sith Jugg more to get familiar with it.

 

It's not that I'm not familiar with the abilities, it's that I'm only level 33 and already I'm out of fingers (I bind 12 buttons, then another twelves with my pinky on the shift.) There is so very little variation among some of our abilities; I don't see the point in having them all.

 

And I'm surprised you don't agree with the second point. You don't find it, well, "un-exciting" to run back and forth between ranged mobs keeping threat on all of them?

 

 

As for your last paragraph in reference to the target - target, that's a must imo. Your #2 in the last paragraphs sounds like you've gotten use to WoW after they implemented the aggro warning. Just practice to be more aware and have your camera zoomed out to max to see the entire field.

 

No, I'm not looking for aggro warnings. That is, I'm not looking for anything to tell me I'm about to lose aggro. (I mean, I'd love threat meters but whatever.) I just find it hard to figure out who is actually being targeted, especially since so many of them are ranged so they don't actually move to their targets.

 

I find "just zoom all the way out" a bad solution. I want to play an RPG, not an RTS.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Gyrovague

[Tonoftw]

If you notice.. Most if not all ranged mobs are weak and dont need to be tanked.. Even in heroic Fp's They dont hit anything and can be killed in 1 GCD by any dps... Ignore them completely, You only have to tank strong mobs and elites. This isnt wow where every single mobs has to stick to you like glue.. Plus more often then not.. if you try to tank every mob.. Death is very viable. This is in heroic btw.

[Dassem]

Where ranged Mob's are concerned I just see them as a different type of fight, either as has been suggested you can get someone to CC the furthest removed Mob or you can in some instances use Force Push to reposition them.

 

A lot of the time though you won't be concentrating on them as they will be weaker ad if he are not you can make sure you charge them fist build up some quick aggro before charging to your intended target and taunting. Each fight normally takes a 5sec plan and then your off.

 

Never really noticed the to many buttons angle, I have maybe 7 abilities I use as a Lvl 37 on a normal rotation with another 5/6 that are used when the come of their various longer CD's. It's a nice amount for me and while there's no definite rotation it's reminding me very much of tanking with my Warrior in a previous game. Though I still have a few tweaks to iron out due to excess rag at times.

 

Target of Target is nice enough but it's easy enough to notice if your target has left your aggro and you have two abilities to bring it back.

[Gyrovague]

and can be killed in 1 GCD by any dps

 

Are we playing the same game?

[Gyrovague]

 

Never really noticed the to many buttons angle, I have maybe 7 abilities I use as a Lvl 37 on a normal rotation with another 5/6 that are used when the come of their various longer CD's.

 

Let's see, at level 33 I have:

3 AOE buttons (only 2 of which do damage)

3 Defensive buttons

2 taunt buttons

2 rage builders

1 spammable rage spender

2 non-quite-spammable rage spenders

5 longer cooldown damage buttons (including one that actually makes tanking more difficult)

2 movement buttons (force leap and whatever the stun breaker is called)

2 resource buttons (free rage and cooldown reset)

1 pure interrupt button

 

I also put self-heal on a bound key; not strictly necessary because it can't be used in combat, but I do so anyway because I use it frequently.

 

Can I manage all of these buttons? Yes. Do they all fit on 2 action bars? Yes. However...

1) It does not leave a whole lot of room for future abilities.

2) It does not leave any room for companion abilities; I still have to click those with a mouse.

 

My complaint is not purely with the number of abilities, it is that there is so much overlap between them. None exactly duplicate others, but there is fairly subtle variation.

 

And a few abilities with long cooldowns does not in itself make for an interesting rotation. You just hit them when they are up, for the most part; not much thinking required. Using Pommel Strike after a stun is the closest thing to an "interesting" mechanic. (And, it should be noted, utterly worthless on bosses.)

 

It just seems like some of these abilities could be combined/collapsed into fewer buttons.

[OriginalBold]

Actually they don't need to combine just either give us a 3rd middle bar or let us use mods now.

 

they do need to change some stuff like:

remove the cool down from Sundering Assault.

make Sweeping Slash a rage builder not a rage user, and it should build high threat.

Ravage should focus on the target so we can move around, or make it mobile somehow.

I like Force Push it lets me use Force Charge, but it should have a lower cool down, Force Choke should also have a shorter cool down too.

and for gods sake give us a Pull ability, we are melee and running around like a fool sucks.

Edited December 31, 2011 by OriginalBold

[steinsgate]

Agree with your first point. We're GCD locked into an extremely clunky and immobile rotation.

 

Looks like you made this from a tank (immortal) spec perspective, but the vengeance tree has the same issues. See http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=107697 for a suggested fix of mine (revamping Rampage).

[Calus]

Actually they don't need to combine just either give us a 3rd middle bar or let us use mods now.

 

they do need to change some stuff like:

remove the cool down from Sundering Assault.

make Sweeping Slash a rage builder not a rage user, and it should build high threat.

Ravage should focus on the target so we can move around, or make it mobile somehow.

I like Force Push it lets me use Force Charge, but it should have a lower cool down, Force Choke should also have a shorter cool down too.

and for gods sake give us a Pull ability, we are melee and running around like a fool sucks.

 

Sweeping slash a rage builder + high threat build would make us way overpowered, there's no way they could do that and get away with it. Target of target should already be possible to hotkey, I've seen it in keybindings.

[amaysn]

I agree with some of what you have to say I had the problem with just too many situation skills that it was frustrating trying to keybind them all but i switdhed to a esdf postion and find i now have enough buttons to fitt all skills in easy reach.

 

I do feel like we run around a lot and find it hard to know which target the mob is attacking i agree 100% that force push should be a force pull preferably with a nice impale at the end the only reason i could possibly think of why a jug would want to push a mob away is to push them off a ledge but that scenerio doesn't present itself enough for me to like it much.

 

A target of target is something missing that i'm am surprised the devs missed it can't be that hard to impament and All classes can beneifit from it . I tis something I do expext to be in the first update as it would be so easy to put in and everyone I've heard wants one.

[Noth]

Lower the damage and remove the extra threat from backhand and make it baseline for the Juggernaut. In it's place add a talented pull that does moderate damage and causes high hate. Problem solved without giving dps guardians too many closing abilities.

[Xitium]

The Devs already stated during beta that target of target isnt in and is NOT coming because of its uses in PVP, so you might as well forget about that one.

 

However you can target your targets target, its in the keybinds.