Premades, Meta Stacking, & Season 7 of PVP

[SentinalMasterWW]

As Season 6 draws somewhat to a close for PVP seasons and really as this year is starting to draw to a close. When we look at PVP what has honestly changed from the start of the year to basically right now. 

Nothing. 

Well Nothing that any of us actually want. 

They increased PVP Seasons to 30 tiers now instead of 25 and increased the duration of it. Did they add maybe more PVP tokens, maybe some Cartel Coins or even Ultimate packs? No they added Medpacs and Adrenals and literally got clowned on by the PVP community for how out of touch they are. 

I want to state I am not opposed to an increase to PVP seasons, but honestly they could've done the bare minimum and added the rewards I mentioned above and players would've actually been fine with it. 

It's unfortunate that the PVP audience who is basically the most loyal audience with SWTOR and has many players who have been here since launch are treated this way from the Dev's. We have all these issues that have existed since 7.2 and have brought them up in numerous forum posts yet nothing is done. 

The biggest killer right now to the health of PVP are these DMG farming premades. 99% of all premades you see are filled by players who are terrible at PVP and need a group to carry them. I see it all the time in Warzones. The few times you encounter these premade players when they Q solo they get easily killed because they don't have the pocket healer or tank to carry them. I've literally encountered numerous players who will Never Q solo and will only Q with a premade.

These players play to make themselves look good for their ego, and to gloat to their friends on Discord they got 20K DPS tunneling a bunch of solo players. Their only strategy is to tunnel and stun spam if possible other players. There is no real counterplay to this given the high DPS meta we are in currently. Unless you yourself have a pocket healer or tank you are going to loose every encounter. Premades don't care about the health of PVP or the fact that they are ruining other players experiences, they are selfish and only want to make other players miserable and feed their own egos. 

It is boggling why they haven't just put a hard limit of 4 back into place, its literally editing a value. The only two reasons come up are these 

1. They Simply are Apathetic and don't care about the PVP Community
2. They Raised the cap past 4 for Conquest and Guilds to get their points 

Nothing kills my and other players moods and desire to PVP when we have to fight a 4-5 man Premade Comp that has 

• Skank Tank Juggernaut or full mit Sin Tank
• Pocket Healer 
• And two to three heavy DPS Meta Specs

I know we all talk about how there are players in PVP who have terrible skills or don't contribute or the players who put too much emphasis on Obj. play, but there are legit players who Q up for PVP as they are interested or want to get better. But with these premades running amok these new players are turned off by PVP as its just them getting killed over and over again by a meta comp. These new players and existing players can never learn to get better when you are getting tunneled by these DMG farm premades, its a frustrating aggravating experience that causes these players to leave the match or just stop Qing entirely.

Regarding Meta stacking

• AP PT should never have gotten the Cell burst Reset and Crit chance, its ridiculous the amount of DMG it can output combined with Powered Detonator. Power Yield should offer more defensive power than adding more DMG into the game.
• Rage just has way too much control, mobility, defensives and Crit DMG. Rage would be less annoying if at least their Crit DMG was reduced. 
• Engi has a ridiculous amount of Crit stacking and Ionic is absurd. Lower the Crit DMG bonuses to 10% and Rework or Remove Ionic.
• Carnage still with Shard of Mortis can hit up 100% and past that with its Crit DMG, Shard of Mortis should honestly be reduced to 5% up to three times.
• Madness just has too much self healing and 15% DR reduction combined with reduction on Force speed this class can just run around constantly getting lifesteal. Lowering the Passive DR Reduction, increasing how often the force speed cooldown can occur, and removing Deathbrand will see the spec in a still strong but less obnoxious state.
• Juggernaut/Guardian Skank Tank, Too much DPS for a tank spec. 

When it comes to class balancing the problem is that the meta became even more meta while the struggling classes fell even further. The unfortunate part is that if they took a small to decent amount of time to do some proper rework to the class tree (As I stated in this post here) we would see less players getting globaled in like 5 secs after spawning in. I don't want these classes nerfed into oblivion, they just are currently way too strong and need to be toned down.Overall going into Season 7 which they'll probably announce in the next livestream which may be the end of this month or sometime in October.

The dev's need to look at what PVP seasons offers and PVP as a whole. If its just the same thing without any real fixes PVP is just going to drop in numbers and population. Be it the lack of any real content or the DMG farming premades driving players away.

[septru]

6 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

numerous forum posts yet nothing is done. 

I'm sure this one will get BroadSword to listen. 

[WaffleQwop]

9 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Premades don't care about the health of PVP or the fact that they are ruining other players experiences, they are selfish and only want to make other players miserable and feed their own egos. 

It is boggling why they haven't just put a hard limit of 4 back into place, its literally editing a value. The only two reasons come up are these 

1. They Simply are Apathetic and don't care about the PVP Community
2. They Raised the cap past 4 for Conquest and Guilds to get their points 

So as always, totally agree with you @SentinalMasterWW, and I for one do appreciate that yourself and others care so much for the games current state. We all love the game, there is no doubting that. The number one thing that could be done quickly and easily to make a difference would be to just go back to the premade limit of 4. I don't think many people will disagree with you here. There is no denying that lots of new players come in to PvP and get farmed by premades, have no idea what they are doing, and stop Queuing. This is a shame! Of course, many of these players do stick around and try to learn and improve, but it truly can be hard when most matches they are going up against a premade that typically is running meta classes. 

That being said, there is a part of me that agrees with others on the forums here and believe that some players are just very bad, possibly because of how green they are, and that they need to learn and improve. But two things can be true at once, that being bad players are a problem, and the incessant amounts of premades and farmers.

I am usually pretty positive when it comes to this forum, and hopeful, but clearly the developers seem to be ignoring and/or hiding from the PvP (and largely the endgame PvE) community. One can only hope that eventually they will make some changes, and show us that they care and appreciate the part player base that is indeed the most loyal to the game, which is the PvP and Raiding communities.

Instead of caring for the communities that have been with the game since release and putting forth some content worthy of the players time and money, the devs have managed to make two different track-based rewards grind runs simultaneously, that being Galactic Seasons and PvP seasons, and judging from what I read on the forums as a whole, lots of people are getting tired of the grind and have stopped caring.

Edited September 5 by WaffleQwop

[SentinalMasterWW]

42 minutes ago, Dyne- said:

My guy, every time I take a look at the PvP forums it's you complaining about all of the classes in the game that you don't play. It's difficult to take you seriously when you're incapable of being impartial. You're whining about classes outside of the context of an 8v8 and advocating for changes that would fundamentally break them in PvP.

The saving grace in all of this is that you aren't a developer. If left to you, every class in the game would exist to get farmed by Mercs. 5.X is in the past. Let it rest, and understand that Merc isn't supposed to be the best melee class, best ranged class, and the best healing class in the game.

My top games that I have are on numerous classes. Top game I ever had was on Vigilance Guardian on Voidstar, followed by an IO game also on Voidstar. I've played the Meta and dominated other teams with them and so have many others here. 

I like Engi sniper and find it engaging but I hate how its only played now for Ionic which barely takes up any skill. I also just find that playing meta is boring and I and others want a meta mixup right now. Something different besides seeing sorcs and PT's running around deleting players.

I also want to bring up, not once was merc brought up in this post so you had made that up so congrats on pulling that out of your rear. 

But to humor you here is the last thing I said about Mercs in this recent post here 

Quote

Mercenary should get chaff flair and sticky dart by default (The spec lost 7 abilities compared to some other specs which only lost 4-5.)

Also the classes I brought up are nothing new, here, here, here, and here. I could look for more but I wont.

and also I want to quote something that you missed apparently, 

17 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I don't want these classes nerfed into oblivion, they just are currently way too strong and need to be toned down.

 

Heck I'll even quote Cease on a Discussion I had with him on one of his videos about the meta specs; 

Quote

 

AP should have never gotten a reset on energy burst by pressing power yield. It's hands down the main factor, making it unrivaled in burst. It should be more focused on being a defensive rather than a reset button when that said ability is already an auto critical and doesn't get used up if it misses.

Engi is out of control because they've seemingly forgot the class has an ability, like laze target, giving them a free auto critical. Adding 50 percent more damage to that breaks every class in the game. Not exclusive to sniper, sniper just happens to have it. Keep in mind it's not even just the 170k hit but also the sabotage damage hitting at the same time for 40k plus, on average, giving you nearly a 200k hit on average. It is absurdly busted.

Madness just shouldn't have a death brand. It's one of the main factors making it a trivial class tied with the healing it receives from it, which, if you did not know, heals each time it's reapplied. Players running the death field are much easier to deal with, and in general, the damage reduction offered could see a 1 percent loss per stack to be more in line with other DR availabilities to other classes. Over Nerf , madness fades back into oblivion.

 

Edited September 6 by SentinalMasterWW

[meddani]

forget op classes..how about fixing 3 people on one team and like 6 on the other one? this is beyond frustrating

[Ajalkaar]

19 hours ago, meddani said:

forget op classes..how about fixing 3 people on one team and like 6 on the other one? this is beyond frustrating

You can’t fix player refusing they’re pop and you can’t fix low player base issues (or at least not if you’re Biosword)

[Ajalkaar]

On 9/5/2024 at 12:02 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

As Season 6 draws somewhat to a close for PVP seasons and really as this year is starting to draw to a close. When we look at PVP what has honestly changed from the start of the year to basically right now. 

Nothing. 

Well Nothing that any of us actually want. 

They increased PVP Seasons to 30 tiers now instead of 25 and increased the duration of it. Did they add maybe more PVP tokens, maybe some Cartel Coins or even Ultimate packs? No they added Medpacs and Adrenals and literally got clowned on by the PVP community for how out of touch they are. 

I want to state I am not opposed to an increase to PVP seasons, but honestly they could've done the bare minimum and added the rewards I mentioned above and players would've actually been fine with it. 

It's unfortunate that the PVP audience who is basically the most loyal audience with SWTOR and has many players who have been here since launch are treated this way from the Dev's. We have all these issues that have existed since 7.2 and have brought them up in numerous forum posts yet nothing is done. 

The biggest killer right now to the health of PVP are these DMG farming premades. 99% of all premades you see are filled by players who are terrible at PVP and need a group to carry them. I see it all the time in Warzones. The few times you encounter these premade players when they Q solo they get easily killed because they don't have the pocket healer or tank to carry them. I've literally encountered numerous players who will Never Q solo and will only Q with a premade.

These players play to make themselves look good for their ego, and to gloat to their friends on Discord they got 20K DPS tunneling a bunch of solo players. Their only strategy is to tunnel and stun spam if possible other players. There is no real counterplay to this given the high DPS meta we are in currently. Unless you yourself have a pocket healer or tank you are going to loose every encounter. Premades don't care about the health of PVP or the fact that they are ruining other players experiences, they are selfish and only want to make other players miserable and feed their own egos. 

It is boggling why they haven't just put a hard limit of 4 back into place, its literally editing a value. The only two reasons come up are these 

1. They Simply are Apathetic and don't care about the PVP Community
2. They Raised the cap past 4 for Conquest and Guilds to get their points 

Nothing kills my and other players moods and desire to PVP when we have to fight a 4-5 man Premade Comp that has 

• Skank Tank Juggernaut or full mit Sin Tank
• Pocket Healer 
• And two to three heavy DPS Meta Specs

I know we all talk about how there are players in PVP who have terrible skills or don't contribute or the players who put too much emphasis on Obj. play, but there are legit players who Q up for PVP as they are interested or want to get better. But with these premades running amok these new players are turned off by PVP as its just them getting killed over and over again by a meta comp. These new players and existing players can never learn to get better when you are getting tunneled by these DMG farm premades, its a frustrating aggravating experience that causes these players to leave the match or just stop Qing entirely.

Regarding Meta stacking

• AP PT should never have gotten the Cell burst Reset and Crit chance, its ridiculous the amount of DMG it can output combined with Powered Detonator. Power Yield should offer more defensive power than adding more DMG into the game.
• Rage just has way too much control, mobility, defensives and Crit DMG. Rage would be less annoying if at least their Crit DMG was reduced. 
• Engi has a ridiculous amount of Crit stacking and Ionic is absurd. Lower the Crit DMG bonuses to 10% and Rework or Remove Ionic.
• Carnage still with Shard of Mortis can hit up 100% and past that with its Crit DMG, Shard of Mortis should honestly be reduced to 5% up to three times.
• Madness just has too much self healing and 15% DR reduction combined with reduction on Force speed this class can just run around constantly getting lifesteal. Lowering the Passive DR Reduction, increasing how often the force speed cooldown can occur, and removing Deathbrand will see the spec in a still strong but less obnoxious state.
• Juggernaut/Guardian Skank Tank, Too much DPS for a tank spec. 

When it comes to class balancing the problem is that the meta became even more meta while the struggling classes fell even further. The unfortunate part is that if they took a small to decent amount of time to do some proper rework to the class tree (As I stated in this post here) we would see less players getting globaled in like 5 secs after spawning in. I don't want these classes nerfed into oblivion, they just are currently way too strong and need to be toned down.Overall going into Season 7 which they'll probably announce in the next livestream which may be the end of this month or sometime in October.

The dev's need to look at what PVP seasons offers and PVP as a whole. If its just the same thing without any real fixes PVP is just going to drop in numbers and population. Be it the lack of any real content or the DMG farming premades driving players away.

The only real solution to this is to get employed as some kind of manager in broadsword and to get devs ( or whatever they are probably interns for some) to do it. Otherwise any other complain is pointless 

[Wulfurkin]

On 9/5/2024 at 12:02 PM, SentinalMasterWW said:

As Season 6 draws somewhat to a close for PVP seasons and really as this year is starting to draw to a close. When we look at PVP what has honestly changed from the start of the year to basically right now. 

Nothing. 

Well Nothing that any of us actually want. 

They increased PVP Seasons to 30 tiers now instead of 25 and increased the duration of it. Did they add maybe more PVP tokens, maybe some Cartel Coins or even Ultimate packs? No they added Medpacs and Adrenals and literally got clowned on by the PVP community for how out of touch they are. 

I want to state I am not opposed to an increase to PVP seasons, but honestly they could've done the bare minimum and added the rewards I mentioned above and players would've actually been fine with it. 

It's unfortunate that the PVP audience who is basically the most loyal audience with SWTOR and has many players who have been here since launch are treated this way from the Dev's. We have all these issues that have existed since 7.2 and have brought them up in numerous forum posts yet nothing is done. 

The biggest killer right now to the health of PVP are these DMG farming premades. 99% of all premades you see are filled by players who are terrible at PVP and need a group to carry them. I see it all the time in Warzones. The few times you encounter these premade players when they Q solo they get easily killed because they don't have the pocket healer or tank to carry them. I've literally encountered numerous players who will Never Q solo and will only Q with a premade.

These players play to make themselves look good for their ego, and to gloat to their friends on Discord they got 20K DPS tunneling a bunch of solo players. Their only strategy is to tunnel and stun spam if possible other players. There is no real counterplay to this given the high DPS meta we are in currently. Unless you yourself have a pocket healer or tank you are going to loose every encounter. Premades don't care about the health of PVP or the fact that they are ruining other players experiences, they are selfish and only want to make other players miserable and feed their own egos. 

It is boggling why they haven't just put a hard limit of 4 back into place, its literally editing a value. The only two reasons come up are these 

1. They Simply are Apathetic and don't care about the PVP Community
2. They Raised the cap past 4 for Conquest and Guilds to get their points 

Nothing kills my and other players moods and desire to PVP when we have to fight a 4-5 man Premade Comp that has 

• Skank Tank Juggernaut or full mit Sin Tank
• Pocket Healer 
• And two to three heavy DPS Meta Specs

I know we all talk about how there are players in PVP who have terrible skills or don't contribute or the players who put too much emphasis on Obj. play, but there are legit players who Q up for PVP as they are interested or want to get better. But with these premades running amok these new players are turned off by PVP as its just them getting killed over and over again by a meta comp. These new players and existing players can never learn to get better when you are getting tunneled by these DMG farm premades, its a frustrating aggravating experience that causes these players to leave the match or just stop Qing entirely.

Regarding Meta stacking

• AP PT should never have gotten the Cell burst Reset and Crit chance, its ridiculous the amount of DMG it can output combined with Powered Detonator. Power Yield should offer more defensive power than adding more DMG into the game.
• Rage just has way too much control, mobility, defensives and Crit DMG. Rage would be less annoying if at least their Crit DMG was reduced. 
• Engi has a ridiculous amount of Crit stacking and Ionic is absurd. Lower the Crit DMG bonuses to 10% and Rework or Remove Ionic.
• Carnage still with Shard of Mortis can hit up 100% and past that with its Crit DMG, Shard of Mortis should honestly be reduced to 5% up to three times.
• Madness just has too much self healing and 15% DR reduction combined with reduction on Force speed this class can just run around constantly getting lifesteal. Lowering the Passive DR Reduction, increasing how often the force speed cooldown can occur, and removing Deathbrand will see the spec in a still strong but less obnoxious state.
• Juggernaut/Guardian Skank Tank, Too much DPS for a tank spec. 

When it comes to class balancing the problem is that the meta became even more meta while the struggling classes fell even further. The unfortunate part is that if they took a small to decent amount of time to do some proper rework to the class tree (As I stated in this post here) we would see less players getting globaled in like 5 secs after spawning in. I don't want these classes nerfed into oblivion, they just are currently way too strong and need to be toned down.Overall going into Season 7 which they'll probably announce in the next livestream which may be the end of this month or sometime in October.

The dev's need to look at what PVP seasons offers and PVP as a whole. If its just the same thing without any real fixes PVP is just going to drop in numbers and population. Be it the lack of any real content or the DMG farming premades driving players away.

These kind of changes would destroy classes that are already struggling in pve. Carnage, ap and arsenal come to mind. These nerfs already happened because of pvp. You all need to stop demanding this so called class balance,  it makes everything unplayable in other content.

[WaffleQwop]

On 9/8/2024 at 5:26 AM, Wulfurkin said:

These kind of changes would destroy classes that are already struggling in pve. Carnage, ap and arsenal come to mind. These nerfs already happened because of pvp. You all need to stop demanding this so called class balance,  it makes everything unplayable in other content.

I get it. But, it's been like two years with no balance changes. I say go for it broadsword. Balances always are fun because you never know what you're gonna get, and there is an excitement to try out the changes and see if there are any meta changes. And let me just say, if the meta did change and some things were reversed, would that really be that bad? We've been playing the same game for a long time, and some major class changes would be exciting. 

[Wulfurkin]

5 minutes ago, WaffleQwop said:

I get it. But, it's been like two years with no balance changes. I say go for it broadsword. Balances always are fun because you never know what you're gonna get, and there is an excitement to try out the changes and see if there are any meta changes. And let me just say, if the meta did change and some things were reversed, would that really be that bad? We've been playing the same game for a long time, and some major class changes would be exciting. 

This is not exciting, it is annoying. Especially if you are in the middle of progressing through difficult raids. It means you basically have to start over. Some classes that performed well in certain boss fights may no longer do so. Im personally in the middle of progging the later hm ops and i know which of my characters to bring for the different ops. If devs started messing with classes id have to relearn everything.

[WaffleQwop]

1 minute ago, Wulfurkin said:

This is not exciting, it is annoying. Especially if you are in the middle of progressing through difficult raids. It means you basically have to start over. Some classes that performed well in certain boss fights may no longer do so. Im personally in the middle of progging the later hm ops and i know which of my characters to bring for the different ops. If devs started messing with classes id have to relearn everything.

Let's put it this way, If the devs never do class balances ever again, then we are where we are and some classes will always be sub par compared to others. If there aren't going to be any class balances ever again, then the devs should say that so that people stop asking for them. There is no denying that some classes are much better off than others, be it based off of defensives and survivability, or just plain damage output.

With that said, I understand your position and I realize that to some people, change is annoying. But to others, change is necessary, and is something that is going to keep being talked about until it gets shut down. At the end of day, what we want to happen and what will happen are two very different things.

[Wulfurkin]

14 minutes ago, WaffleQwop said:

Let's put it this way, If the devs never do class balances ever again, then we are where we are and some classes will always be sub par compared to others. If there aren't going to be any class balances ever again, then the devs should say that so that people stop asking for them. There is no denying that some classes are much better off than others, be it based off of defensives and survivability, or just plain damage output.

With that said, I understand your position and I realize that to some people, change is annoying. But to others, change is necessary, and is something that is going to keep being talked about until it gets shut down. At the end of day, what we want to happen and what will happen are two very different things.

I wouldnt be opposed to buffing some of the underperforming specs. Examples would be arsenal mercenary  marksman sniper. fury marauder. and operative healer.

[Arundo]

I always been an fierce defender of SWTOR and when they said Broadsword is where games go to die I was very fierce saying that wont be the case. But have to say its true, all they bring out is some small story and more cash shop stuff (100 EUR bundle, limited time FOMO crap I point at you).

I play both PVE and PVP but as many left the game I raided with I went to focus on PVP but as OP says its just overun by premades. Ever since the changes came to PVP there were many ideas to fix the broken matchmaking but they dont care about it. I just need 126 medals to finish the meta achiev, I thought I would get that in a few hours. But sofar after 2 hours I got like 20 medals as all games are very one sided and each time we get obliterated by the other team. Thats not a fun game night in my book. 

Well I gave up recently, I will finish this season as my FOMO will haunt me if I would not finish this atleast as I started it. But after that its done for me in SWTOR. Game is dead, devs dont care for more then give us small breadcrumbs and big cash shop updates to milk us. 

[WaffleQwop]

2 hours ago, Arundo said:

Well I gave up recently, I will finish this season as my FOMO will haunt me if I would not finish this atleast as I started it. But after that its done for me in SWTOR. Game is dead, devs dont care for more then give us small breadcrumbs and big cash shop updates to milk us. 

Agreed. This is big time how I have been feeling lately. PvP is about all I have left. I tried doing GS stuff and DvL but I gave up real quick on that. Unfortunately PvP is in such a state right now that I am really starting to play less and less and that is a shame because I really want to keep my sub going. I just want something more than some story and cosmetics. Balance changes, pvp changes, pve changes, whatever. And them making gearing "easier" in this recent update does not count to be honest. Too much carrot and stick, and right now no carrot at all.

[AocaVII]

The problem with PVP here is the lack of vision and failure of the players to adjust to the way PVP has become.

It's kind of like a looking outside the box and normal way of doing things in order to have satisfaction in PvP, then changing.

These are the primary reasons why PVP can not improve from it's present state:

1 People refuse to learn how to PVP.  

2 People refuse to solo q and ditch the "q because I like playing with my friends" or "I wanna fight in a group so it's easy" Those days are over. The players are not good enough to make the matches even "normal." You can rarely have a balanced match doing this.

3 Fixating on numbers instead of skillful play. DPS/HPS is very important but it's only one half of a good player. The other half survivability, kills, awareness, strategy, ability to kill quickly and many other factors. This contributes to this dysfunctional system of allowing players who don't like to PVP to get rewards just for participation. 

So basically what I see some days is four people just run to a side node and just sit there for 15 minutes and do nothing. Just to get the medals so they can get their achievement. This is because people want to e flex and show they can DPS when DPS is only half of a good player. 

All these things lead to longer pop times and just the general state of unhappiness of people who play PVP.

Until people can get past these things and grow, the PVP will never change and eventually will die. It's pretty much dead anyway  at this point but that's what you would need to change to fix it. 

Most likely people will never grow past these limitations that they have in their psyche to improve anything but I'm just putting it out there so people can see clearly what's going on here, really.

When PVP got unbalanced in other games and we had all great players vs bad players, what we did was we organized matches like you can do in this game and issue challenges but I think that the people are too prideful if they lose in a totally balanced match it would probably devastate their ego. Me personally I hated organized PVP but a lot of people liked it and sometimes it was a lot better but I just didn't like the fact of having to organize it because it felt not spontaneous.

Plus when people knew that the fights were even and balanced and they would lose some people would get very upset about that and it would break their egos and cause arguments between people etc.

 

A friend came back after many years who was a great player and I messaged her and then she asked me to group and I was like I think it's going to be Overkill if we group but okay if you want to group fine and then after seven games she was like you know what I think you were right it is too much so it's no illusion it's the truth about how it really is. That's just a two player group.

Also another thing she had mentioned was she was like wow I barely have to heal you because she had been playing wzs for I guess a couple weeks having to like labor to keep people alive she wasn't used to having players that could actually survive on their own and didn't require a nurse feeding of heals or a guard.

Things are a lot different than they used to be some people most people here need to come to grips with that.

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:12 PM by AocaVII

[Raazmir]

Quote

1 People refuse to learn how to PVP.  

Like five years ago i made a post about how people who wanted pvp to be any good needed to start guilds focused on pvp, recruit heavily including people who sucked and do smaall premades with skilled players working with their new guildies on voice chat.  It was pooh poohed and literally every excuse under the sun was given as to why that wouldn't work.

 

Quote

2 People refuse to solo q and ditch the "q because I like playing with my friends" or "I wanna fight in a group so it's easy" Those days are over. The players are not good enough to make the matches even "normal." You can rarely have a balanced match doing this.

No one should have to do this in an MMO, and if the game has regressed to the point that this is somehow necessary the mode is already dead, its just twitching a little.  It isn't a 90's FPS where every character is basically identical mechanically,  comp matters.

 

Quote

3 Fixating on numbers instead of skillful play. DPS/HPS is very important but it's only one half of a good player. The other half survivability, kills, awareness, strategy, ability to kill quickly and many other factors. This contributes to this dysfunctional system of allowing players who don't like to PVP to get rewards just for participation. 

Arena play really screwed up the psyche of most of the pvpers remaining.   Killed the idea of a pvp community as a whole and created a community of the "elite".   Nothing the playerbase can really do about that except my response to #1 up there. 

 

Quote

With that said, I understand your position and I realize that to some people, change is annoying. But to others, change is necessary, and is something that is going to keep being talked about until it gets shut down. At the end of day, what we want to happen and what will happen are two very different things.

There were barely enough pvpers as a % of population at the height of ranked to warrant the kinds of class rebalancing pvp players constantly want, but they did it anyway and all they got as a reward was damage to the populations who do other aspects of the game.   

[WaffleQwop]

13 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

Like five years ago i made a post about how people who wanted pvp to be any good needed to start guilds focused on pvp, recruit heavily including people who sucked and do smaall premades with skilled players working with their new guildies on voice chat.  It was pooh poohed and literally every excuse under the sun was given as to why that wouldn't work.

 

This is a wonderful idea, and it is a shame that more guilds don't actually attempt this. I have seen one guild attempt this, and unfortunately it died recently. All other PvP focused guilds made zero efforts into recruiting other players, and typically the players in these guilds all knew each other and ran in premades and went for top damage/kills, etc. 

 

16 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

There were barely enough pvpers as a % of population at the height of ranked to warrant the kinds of class rebalancing pvp players constantly want, but they did it anyway and all they got as a reward was damage to the populations who do other aspects of the game.   

Then I suppose at this point, what we have currently is what we are always going to have. A bit of a mess.

[AocaVII]

3 hours ago, Raazmir said:

Like five years ago i made a post about how people who wanted pvp to be any good needed to start guilds focused on pvp, recruit heavily including people who sucked and do smaall premades with skilled players working with their new guildies on voice chat.  It was pooh poohed and literally every excuse under the sun was given as to why that wouldn't work.

 

No one should have to do this in an MMO, and if the game has regressed to the point that this is somehow necessary the mode is already dead, its just twitching a little.  It isn't a 90's FPS where every character is basically identical mechanically,  comp matters.

 

Arena play really screwed up the psyche of most of the pvpers remaining.   Killed the idea of a pvp community as a whole and created a community of the "elite".   Nothing the playerbase can really do about that except my response to #1 up there. 

 

There were barely enough pvpers as a % of population at the height of ranked to warrant the kinds of class rebalancing pvp players constantly want, but they did it anyway and all they got as a reward was damage to the populations who do other aspects of the game.   

Like I said people will just ignore this and will not be able to grow past it. 

Like it or not this is what is the reality of what is going on and what would need to be done ✅ 

This isn't the first PVP game that I seen die and we did things and made adjustments to make it still fun but people here just aren't at that maturity level apparently.

 

We all know that the system screwed up and that the developers have created this situation but it doesn't give you a license to still make things worse by not changing how you play. 

I don't really get the notion of well gee someone made a really really screwed up system and messed everything up so let's just continue with the way we used to do things and not think outside of the box and try to fix it and live in the problem that they created and not create our own solution.

Why can't people who make premades right now not just challenge other premades in a challenge for a fair fight? The reason is because it would pierce their soul to lose in a fair fight. 

Instead of issuing the challenge they rather leave it up to a war zone where you're going to get a few randoms or the other team is not going to have enough or they're going to have not the right classes and it's always going to throw the balance off.

If people really cared about who was best, and they judgments as to who is bad and who is good, they would do challenges and make even fights to see who's the best but like I said people are too weak minded and it would crush them if they lost they would probably uninstall from the maturity level that I see here. 

What is the point of premades and groups fighting players that don't want to be in a war zone what type of alternative reality do you want to live in here? It's not even player vs player; it's player versus NPC person who wants rewards and does not want to fight you.

There's a system for matching groups perfectly but no one has the guts to do it and issue the challenge. You must know since you sound like a PVP expert that players that PVP have very fragile egos and when they lose it's very devastating, not all of them but most. I've seen the very devil come out of people when they lose in even circumstances.

It's really not a pretty sight but if you want to be the best, make judgments on who is good and who is bad and claim to be something in PvP that's what you do. Just running around in these pre-mades killing pugs plus half pre-mades and uneven fights it doesn't prove anything.

It doesn't give you a license to say who's good or who's bad at PVP because you can't tell because the fights are never even.

Don't use the 5 years ago card because 5 years ago I quit the game because I saw what it was becoming and hoped that everybody would quit and they would make a new one but unfortunately did not happen.

I didn't ask for a response from my post it's just stating what I see like it or not that is what is happening right now will it get better probably not.

Right now on starforge there is a group of players that would probably be able to beat anybody in the challenge but people are probably terrified to go against them in a challenge. There's no players here that would ever win.

So I hate to break this reality to you but you are not the best thing in PvP all you people who claim to be. Yes you're better than people who don't want to PVP and not fight you. That's a great accomplishment I commend you.

The game used to be very simple you could log on to solo q and the wz were even and you had a good time or if you wanted to be in a group you also could have a good time and go in and fight pugs that wanted to actually fight and put up a good fight and sometimes you would even lose so the fights were balanced but it's not like that right now so you have to change something or just keep it the way it is nonsensical way of playing. 

The developers did however have foresight and that's why they created the PVP challenge issue because they saw that it was getting unbalanced and to have Fair fights that's what you would need to do but they don't know PVP is here because they are not strong enough to take the losses and then learn from the losses and win.

So go ahead respond if you want how is issuing a challenge contrary to what people want they want to be with their friends and they want to do high DPS so what's what's the problem why don't people do it?

Edited Tuesday at 09:53 PM by AocaVII

[Raazmir]

1 hour ago, AocaVII said:

I don't really get the notion of well gee someone made a really really screwed up system and messed everything up so let's just continue with the way we used to do things and not think outside of the box and try to fix it and live in the problem that they created and not create our own solution.

 

Because the best they were ever able to manage as a population that legitimately cares about these things was a tenth of a percent of the total accounts dude. 

 

Writing was on the wall with the server transfer/no cross server pvp ever fiasco into arena as ranked fiasco.   They got a reprieve from a steam launch but you only get one of those in the lifespan of the game. 

[AocaVII]

This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen people still doing pre-mades when they're getting 102 kills to 2 kills in a game. I mean like what are you thinking are you thinking?

Yet people still think we should continue course. I don't get the unproductive thinking here. This just leads to more people quitting and not playing. These people won't be happy till the PvP just completely dies then they have nothing else to do.

Just because something is dysfunctional doesn't mean you have to go along with it. 

I still want an answer why don't people issue challenges if they're so good?

Edited Tuesday at 11:57 PM by AocaVII

[AocaVII]

1 hour ago, Raazmir said:

Because the best they were ever able to manage as a population that legitimately cares about these things was a tenth of a percent of the total accounts dude. 

 

Writing was on the wall with the server transfer/no cross server pvp ever fiasco into arena as ranked fiasco.   They got a reprieve from a steam launch but you only get one of those in the lifespan of the game. 

Yeah like I said I saw this like 5 years ago but unfortunately I did play other PVP games in that span and they all turn out to be the same as you see right here. The unbalance. I'm not sure we could ever have legit PVP ever again on an online game tbh. I mean I actually played mobas and games dedicated strictly to PVP and still yet you get the same thing.

I need a different hobby.

Edited Wednesday at 12:00 AM by AocaVII

[septru]

9 hours ago, AocaVII said:

We all know that the system screwed up and that the developers have created this situation but it doesn't give players a license to still make things worse by not changing how they play...

 

Why can't people who make premades right now not just challenge other premades in a challenge for a fair fight? The reason is because it would pierce their soul to lose in a fair fight. 

 

Yup. Exactly right. These people would rather play 1000 games against literal bots than play a fair challenge. It's sad. It's weak. It's 100 other things that I can't say because I'd get banned on the forums. 

 

But you know what it also is? It's their version of fun. And that's all people want to do when they play a video game. They want to have fun. It's that simple. 

 

You seem to think that players have some sort of responsibility to fix the game. They do not. It's not players' jobs to not play with friends. It's not players' job to play objs. It's not players job to fix PvP matchmaking. We pay for this game to have fun. And that's it. As much as I agree with you about how bad these premades are for the game, I'm not sure why we are blaming them for how they have fun. 

[AocaVII]

12 hours ago, septru said:

 

Yup. Exactly right. These people would rather play 1000 games against literal bots than play a fair challenge. It's sad. It's weak. It's 100 other things that I can't say because I'd get banned on the forums. 

 

But you know what it also is? It's their version of fun. And that's all people want to do when they play a video game. They want to have fun. It's that simple. 

 

You seem to think that players have some sort of responsibility to fix the game. They do not. It's not players' jobs to not play with friends. It's not players' job to play objs. It's not players job to fix PvP matchmaking. We pay for this game to have fun. And that's it. As much as I agree with you about how bad these premades are for the game, I'm not sure why we are blaming them for how they have fun. 

Players have the responsibility to not do things that are imo bizarre and non sensical.

When is it enough, 350 kills to 1 kill.

That's really all great in theory that yay we can play with our friends and just keep doing the things we want but the fact of the matter is even today it's 20 minutes to get a q-pop and you go in the war zone and totally sucks so that's the result of playing with your friends and destroying people that don't know how to play the game and don't want to. That's why it's bad. 

Like I said if you want to play with your friends issue a challenge so you can play with your friends and forever and have great matches.

And again the end result of this today is no queue pops I have 40 people in my friends list one person on so that's as a result of last night 120 kills the two 80 kills to four I mean come on now people don't want to go into war zone and die 25 times it's stupid. 

The stubborn attitude is very destructive. Unwavering, hard headed and unwilling to change are bad attitudes when trying to work with a system that is very far from good. You won't get far with any type of challenge you encounter. This is a person that will go through life and anytime there's any type of problem they never make any adjustment and make everything worse for themselves every single time. Then it turns to a disaster.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:43 PM by AocaVII

[Raazmir]

11 hours ago, septru said:

You seem to think that players have some sort of responsibility to fix the game. They do not. It's not players' jobs to not play with friends. It's not players' job to play objs. It's not players job to fix PvP matchmaking. We pay for this game to have fun. And that's it. As much as I agree with you about how bad these premades are for the game, I'm not sure why we are blaming them for how they have fun. 

#1 attitude that led pvp to this point.  Really does seem like all the pvpers worth a damn left not long after arena was implemented.

[septru]

20 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

#1 attitude that led pvp to this point.  Really does seem like all the pvpers worth a damn left not long after arena was implemented.

 

Lol. I'm the only pvper to ever host a BioWare sponsored dueling tournament with BioWare influencers. I started a dueling guild. I creating a dueling stronghold for an entire server. I hosted weekly kickballs (tank/healer arena challenges with mixed up teams). I continuously coordinated group ranked when group ranked was entirely dead. I have organized guild v guild open world pvp when level sync did not exist. I have created multiple class and pvp guides. I have gone well beyond my "responsibility" to "help" the community because I have fun doing it.

 

But I also know other people might not have fun doing the same thing. SWTOR might not be their full time job. That's ok. I don't expect others to create tournaments or coordinate people's work schedule to find a time when 8 people can play kickball. They are not obligated to do that. They are not obligated to do anything, much less fix the game.

 

Play. Have fun. That's it. The faster you realize this, the faster you can come back to reality: SWTOR is not ever going to be what you want it. The players are not fixing the game. And the devs sure as hell ain't fixing it either.