DarthNillard Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Seriously, you can queue just for arenas now. Or Outlaws Den. Also the Gree event is currently live. So many options. 80 Warzone PVP is trash, 90% of the time its at least 4 or 5 from every team just deathmatching on the side. Grow up. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdratLightindark Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 There is a thread in the PVP forums that say you should be death matching instead of objectives ironically. I rarely PVP anymore because of what you described. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 its just more fun to run around and do stuff than afk at a node for a full game, thankfully you can't force players to play the way you like, they will play the way they like better calm down and just accept reality than try to fight the tide 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNillard Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said: its just more fun to run around and do stuff than afk at a node for a full game, thankfully you can't force players to play the way you like, they will play the way they like better calm down and just accept reality than try to fight the tide The arenas are plenty big. Also the outlaws Den and spot for PVP on Ilum are also big. There's no reason for this. Actually had someone post in ops chat since I made this post "if you need me I'll be deathmatching" like it was funny. Stop ruining Warzones for everyone else, some of us just like to play huttball.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 15 minutes ago, DarthNillard said: The arenas are plenty big. Also the outlaws Den and spot for PVP on Ilum are also big. There's no reason for this. Actually had someone post in ops chat since I made this post "if you need me I'll be deathmatching" like it was funny. Stop ruining Warzones for everyone else, some of us just like to play huttball.... Who is ruining what? If they want to play that way, isn't it just as fine as you playing the warzone the way you want? There are incentives to achieve objectives, but developers don't force you to do them. You gain more benefits for sure, but if someone feels another gameplay type is more fun and decides to pursue it, shouldn't that be perfectly fine as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNillard Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said: Who is ruining what? If they want to play that way, isn't it just as fine as you playing the warzone the way you want? There are incentives to achieve objectives, but developers don't force you to do them. You gain more benefits for sure, but if someone feels another gameplay type is more fun and decides to pursue it, shouldn't that be perfectly fine as well? How is it fine? There's a reason arenas are 4 vs 4 and warzones are 8 vs 8; some of these maps require multiple people doing multiple things (holding nodes, getting orbs, running the huttball, etc). In some cases one team will have most of the team deathmatching and the other team will have less. In these situations, roaming groups of 4+ people are just running around killing people trying to do objectives. The point is, at least there was a case to be made when there was only 1 overarching queue and you had no way to guarantee it was an arena. Now you can, so go fight there. Edited August 12 by DarthNillard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 32 minutes ago, DarthNillard said: How is it fine? There's a reason arenas are 4 vs 4 and warzones are 8 vs 8; some of these maps require multiple people doing multiple things (holding nodes, getting orbs, running the huttball, etc). In some cases one team will have most of the team deathmatching and the other team will have less. In these situations, roaming groups of 4+ people are just running around killing people trying to do objectives. The point is, at least there was a case to be made when there was only 1 overarching queue and you had no way to guarantee it was an arena. Now you can, so go fight there. Truth is they don't want to. Arena's are 1 Death per round. They just want to fight for a longer amount of time, regardless of if they die multiple times or not. Unfortunately Deathmatching in PvP has been a thing for many years, long before the queu got split between arena's and wz's, and long before ranked was ever removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACATW Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 hours ago, DarthNillard said: How is it fine? There's a reason arenas are 4 vs 4 and warzones are 8 vs 8; some of these maps require multiple people doing multiple things (holding nodes, getting orbs, running the huttball, etc). In some cases one team will have most of the team deathmatching and the other team will have less. In these situations, roaming groups of 4+ people are just running around killing people trying to do objectives. The point is, at least there was a case to be made when there was only 1 overarching queue and you had no way to guarantee it was an arena. Now you can, so go fight there. It’s because most people don’t know how to play objectives properly anymore. The old way was to fight at mid and send one stealth to cap the off node if we were losing the attritional battle at mid. Now days it’s run everywhere like a headless chicken and never fight anywhere, just run, hide, cower at your off node and refuse to PvP. For old pvpers, that’s not fun. We want to fight, not run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eabevella Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 I only played PvP in S1 and 2 and quit afterward so it's a really short time and the in game instructions for different WZs are not very clear, but I was still able to get what the main objectives were after a few matches even if I don't know the fine details. I noticed a lot people simply don't want to learn nor do any objective, and most of the time people attempted to organize the group through chat got ignored *shrug* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 19 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said: thankfully you can't force players to play the way you like This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNillard Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 40 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said: This. Actually NOT this. The OPPOSITE of this. I didn't design the warzones to have objectives, the game did. The more truthful statement is: Unthankfully you can't force anybody to follow directions. The nonsense that is Warzones in SWTOR is a microcosm for why the world is in shambles. Disgusting tbh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNillard Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 13 hours ago, Toraak said: Truth is they don't want to. Arena's are 1 Death per round. They just want to fight for a longer amount of time, regardless of if they die multiple times or not. Unfortunately Deathmatching in PvP has been a thing for many years, long before the queu got split between arena's and wz's, and long before ranked was ever removed. That's what the Outlaws Den is for. That's what the gree event PVP area is for. That's what every non-starter planet having a PVP instance is for. People can go fight forever in those places until their little hearts are content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffleQwop Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Adjusting matchmaking to force premade deathsquads to sit in queue until matched with another premade will help Warzones overall for the average player. When finally matched with another premade, match can start to backfill any remaining spots. If something like this happened, matches would be much more balanced, but more than anything you would run into zerg squads a lot less. A lot of players simply don't know how to properly play warzones, but it's extremely hard for them to learn when getting spawncamped and annihilated by premade squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 8 hours ago, eabevella said: I noticed a lot people simply don't want to learn nor do any objective, and most of the time people attempted to organize the group through chat got ignored *shrug* The real reason that players death match in warzones is because they simply do not care about winning because there are no incentives to win. Sure, there is the PvP Seasons system. However, the PvP Seasons system is a participation-based reward system. It rewards both wins and losses. And many players have realized that they can complete the PvP Seasons track even if they ignore the objectives. With the removal of Ranked PvP, there are no other reward systems that incentivize winning. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, septru said: The real reason that players death match in warzones is because they simply do not care about winning because there are no incentives to win. Sure, there is the PvP Seasons system. However, the PvP Seasons system is a participation-based reward system. It rewards both wins and losses. And many players have realized that they can complete the PvP Seasons track even if they ignore the objectives. With the removal of Ranked PvP, there are no other reward systems that incentivize winning. Did they remove the "wins only" thing on the PvP Weekly missions at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 hours ago, DarthNillard said: That's what the Outlaws Den is for. That's what the gree event PVP area is for. That's what every non-starter planet having a PVP instance is for. People can go fight forever in those places until their little hearts are content. True enough, but Ironically neither has ever really gotten any use. Probably because there has never been much in the lines of rewards for doing Open world PvP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 18 hours ago, DarthNillard said: How is it fine? There's a reason arenas are 4 vs 4 and warzones are 8 vs 8; some of these maps require multiple people doing multiple things (holding nodes, getting orbs, running the huttball, etc). In some cases one team will have most of the team deathmatching and the other team will have less. In these situations, roaming groups of 4+ people are just running around killing people trying to do objectives. The point is, at least there was a case to be made when there was only 1 overarching queue and you had no way to guarantee it was an arena. Now you can, so go fight there. 4 hours ago, DarthNillard said: Actually NOT this. The OPPOSITE of this. I didn't design the warzones to have objectives, the game did. The more truthful statement is: Unthankfully you can't force anybody to follow directions. The nonsense that is Warzones in SWTOR is a microcosm for why the world is in shambles. Disgusting tbh.... i think i see where the confusion comes from, you think there is a "right" way of playing swtor, thankfully, you are mistaken, players are free to play swtor exactly the way they want. think of it as a big open-world game with a main quest, side quests, some optional group content and other stuff, you know like your average MMO, a player is free to play the content they want in the way that they want without anyone else being able to "force" them into playing it any differently you may think that doing objectives is "the" way to play warzones, while in reality it is just one of the things you can do, and you are perfectly free to skip them and do whatever you prefer, honestly mate, if you just play the game in a way that makes you have fun, you will enjoy it much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNillard Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 (edited) 32 minutes ago, RikuvonDrake said: i think i see where the confusion comes from, you think there is a "right" way of playing swtor, thankfully, you are mistaken, players are free to play swtor exactly the way they want. think of it as a big open-world game with a main quest, side quests, some optional group content and other stuff, you know like your average MMO, a player is free to play the content they want in the way that they want without anyone else being able to "force" them into playing it any differently you may think that doing objectives is "the" way to play warzones, while in reality it is just one of the things you can do, and you are perfectly free to skip them and do whatever you prefer, honestly mate, if you just play the game in a way that makes you have fun, you will enjoy it much more This is dead wrong. I guess in your world it's also cool to hop into a Flashpoint and just go do your own thing instead of actually playing through it? Or doing the same thing and going rogue in a raid? These are GROUP FINDER missions where people are queueing into a specific mission type to do a specific thing. When you are doing group content with other random people, in set missions with set objectives, the objectives ARE the mission. If you disagree then you are doing it wrong and there's nothing for us to discuss.... Some things shouldn't have to be explained. If you get on a public bus, its assumed everyone knows you aren't going to strip down naked and start doing flips or won't jump out the window while it's moving 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 Edited August 13 by DarthNillard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) Most of these players pvping are not fit for PVP. This will mess up every war zone whether you're doing a objectives or not. Edited August 13 by AocaVII 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, DarthNillard said: This is dead wrong. I guess in your world it's also cool to hop into a Flashpoint and just go do your own thing instead of actually playing through it? Or doing the same thing and going rogue in a raid? These are GROUP FINDER missions where people are queueing into a specific mission type to do a specific thing. When you are doing group content with other random people, in set missions with set objectives, the objectives ARE the mission. If you disagree then you are doing it wrong and there's nothing for us to discuss.... Some things shouldn't have to be explained. If you get on a public bus, its assumed everyone knows you aren't going to strip down naked and start doing flips or won't jump out the window while it's moving 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 You can do the same in flashpoints, you can pull all the trash you want instead of skipping, do bonus quests along with the main quests, and do the bonus boss as well as many other things that, depending on your perspective, are suboptimal or unnecessary in terms of reaching the main objective. Inappropriate things are not acceptable, like what you are talking about in that bus but in swtor that is governed through the ToS, as you might notice if you check it out, an instruction and ruleset of HOW you need to play a warzone isn't included in it. the devs want you and others to play and have fun, focus on that instead of trying to force players to play "your" way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 19 hours ago, DarthNillard said: In these situations, roaming groups of 4+ people are just running around killing people trying to do objectives. I don't understand this sentence's phrasing. Should a roaming group of 4+ just...let the enemy complete the objective? Killing them is how you stop them! It's as if, you play Huttball and are happy to run the ball, and are happy to let the enemy run the ball, but as soon as the enemy stops you from running the ball, suddenly that's a problem? Could you help me understand what exactly your complaint is? It seems to me like total domination of the other team by killing them is a strictly more effective way of "playing the objective" than clicking on blue things. And this fact is taboo to mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, Zunayson said: Should a roaming group of 4+ just...let the enemy complete the objective? Killing them is how you stop them! Yes, but I think the point is that running around killing is *all* they are doing. They aren't doing it to enable themselves to do the objective instead of the enemy. (And most objectives require the "takers" to at least do *something* (click on the gun control panels in the Civil War zones, open the doors in Voidstar, etc.) in order to activate the objectives.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, RikuvonDrake said: You can do the same in flashpoints, you can pull all the trash you want instead of skipping, do bonus quests along with the main quests, and do the bonus boss as well as many other things that, depending on your perspective, are suboptimal or unnecessary in terms of reaching the main objective. Inappropriate things are not acceptable, like what you are talking about in that bus but in swtor that is governed through the ToS, as you might notice if you check it out, an instruction and ruleset of HOW you need to play a warzone isn't included in it. the devs want you and others to play and have fun, focus on that instead of trying to force players to play "your" way except in your FP example: If someone is pulling every trash pull in a FP, then the other 3 are most likely going to kick them for wasting the groups time. To my knowledge they removed Vote to kick in PvP, so it's not the same thing. That person may have the right to play that FP however they want, but others will disagree with that, and won't tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Okay, simple version defeating other players are objectives according to swtor.com and then finishing and completing the mission. Right now about 90% of players can't kill another player. So pre-made or no pre-made people doing objectives or not doing objectives doesn't matter. The game play is awful because the players are awful. Not only are they awful but there very happy being awful at PVP and just getting their rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferior Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) I am just spit balling here and this is merely my personal opinion but if they brought out that 8v8 death match the warzone death matches would probably cease... Some folks like to fight and imo 4v4 dont cut it just like on star forge now there are so many premades looking to fight other premades more than I have ever seen and I feel like I can relate more to the premades at this point I didnt que up warzones so i can fall into a coma clicking on an objective ...its fun in a while to win but Ill relish a good fight even If I lose any day over clicking to win on an objective when there is no action... Bottom line broadsword could solve this simply by understanding some folks still like the idea of *Player vs Player* Not player vs door or player vs interactive clicky mechanic lol but thats just me .... The folks on star forge that see me I might be a free kill and the worst PvPer around on that server I still like to fight em and tbh I feel no reason to play objectives atm none of the rewards are appealing... tech frags are nice but with the prices of Oem's and Rpms on SF being so low why bother and dont get me started on that PvP season track calling those rewards lol... Edited August 13 by Luciferior 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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